Papi Juiced along with Manny in 03

[ceeps04]

Here is some shocking news.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=4366335

Manny Ramirez and David Ortiz tested positive for performance-enhancing drugs in 2003, lawyers with knowledge of the results told The New York Times.

The two were key members of the Boston Red Sox World Series teams in 2004 and 2007.

[billhill999]

I'm willing to bet Varitek is on that list also.

[domelogic]

lets assume everyone tested positive until otherwise proven. thats about where we are at now

way to go baseball never was a problem was it selig, oh and dont put any asteriks next to the records cuz you know they are all legit

the union, selig, the players the front offices, everyone is to blame

[askewcore]

This makes me oh so happy. Can't wait for the next series at Yankee Stadium for the giant STEROIDS chant for that fucking ape faced cunt.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again. That entire 2004 Red Sox lineup was on steroids.

[Jimmy's Dignity]

http://www.hollow-hill.com/sabina/images/no-shit-sherlock.jpg


I wonder if anyone who works for ESPN or Sports Illustrated will write a book about it? :icon_roll

[billhill999]

You know what I say, let the pitchers juice and move the mound form 60 feet 6 inches to 100 feet, and let the hitters juice and move the fences back from 400 feet to 700 feet.

Of course Selig, the Union, Players Asscoition, peanut vendors, and bathroom attendants knew of the juicing, once they figured homeruns sell, they all turned a blind eye to it.

Remember the ads from 12 years ago "Chicks dig the long ball"

Enough said.

[Aaron Burrito]

This makes me oh so happy. Can't wait for the next series at Yankee Stadium for the giant STEROIDS chant for that fucking ape faced cunt.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again. That entire 2004 Red Sox lineup was on steroids.

A-Rod.

[Jimmy's Dignity]

I can't wait to see Bill Simmons' make believe story about how he sat down with his son and father and tries to rationalize this one

A-Rod.

on the Texas Rangers from 2001-2003. When he tested positive for steroids.

[domelogic]

I can't wait to see Bill Simmons' make believe story about how he sat down with his son and father and tries to rationalize this one
.


if he even writes about it. hopefully he will and give his true feelings

[Aaron Burrito]

on the Texas Rangers from 2001-2003. When he tested positive for steroids.

And you really believe that?

[FullBallz]

Sure there were a shitload of juicers but this makes me so fucking happy. It really just shows what a fraud those teams were. I fucking love it. Amazing how it wasn't until 2003 when he became "DAVID ORTIZ". I'm like a pig in shit right now.

And yeah I know A-Rod did it, but not while a Yankee. And yes, I do believe he hasn't been taking it because in 2004 was when they started making it public. No way a guy like A-Rod takes that risk, especially on the Yankees. Let's see all the Sox fans run him out of town now like they did Manny.

And yes I do realize if Jeter, Posada, or Mo were found to have taken them I'd be absolutely crushed. But they haven't, so I'm dancin.

[Papagolash]

Just release the whole fucking list already.


Sooo hoping Griffey and Pujols aren't on it.

[Jimmy's Dignity]

Sooo hoping Griffey and Pujols aren't on it.

If they are, there is no God

[ginaf20697]

As a Yankees fan in New England this is like the bestest news EVER!

http://images.yuku.com/image/gif/0391514b56de54208e71bf37d7111229e4f21e7.gifhttp://images.yuku.com/image/gif/0391514b56de54208e71bf37d7111229e4f21e7.gifhttp://images.yuku.com/image/gif/0391514b56de54208e71bf37d7111229e4f21e7.gifhttp://images.yuku.com/image/gif/0391514b56de54208e71bf37d7111229e4f21e7.gifhttp://images.yuku.com/image/gif/0391514b56de54208e71bf37d7111229e4f21e7.gif

[JMCC]

So far everyone that has denied taking them has lied, just wich they release the list and get this over with.

[tysonpunchinguterus]

What makes this so enjoyable is that it was less than a year ago that this piece of shit went around saying that he wants anyone who uses steroids to be suspended for a year for the first offense. What a fucking hypocrite. This couldn't happen to a nicer guy.

I don't think there can be anymore questions about why he's having such a shitty year.

I wonder if the Sox fans who were so fucking giddy talking about how the Yankees' last 4 World Series wins are tainted are going to say the same thing about their last 2 since the 2 biggest pieces of their offense from those titles were juicing.

[weakside]

I don't care who did it or what team they were on, it’s bad for baseball and makes my stomach sick as a fan.

[Aizazzle]

Once again, I'm reminded just how thankful, I should be that the Phils ended up winning in 2008 when this shit isn't that much of an issue.

[25133WhooOoAH]

Every team had players on this list...who cares, Steroids made this game exciting, look at Papi now..He stinks on ice.

[ginaf20697]

Well the point is RED SOX FANS cared. They cared a lot. They would never pass up a chance to throw it in Yankees fans' faces. Let's see how those fuckers feel with the shoe on the other foot.

[Stormrider666]

What makes this so enjoyable is that it was less than a year ago that this piece of shit went around saying that he wants anyone who uses steroids to be suspended for a year for the first offense. What a fucking hypocrite. This couldn't happen to a nicer guy.

I don't think there can be anymore questions about why he's having such a shitty year.

I wonder if the Sox fans who were so fucking giddy talking about how the Yankees' last 4 World Series wins are tainted are going to say the same thing about their last 2 since the 2 biggest pieces of their offense from those titles were juicing.

Less than year ago, he said it at the beginning of this year's spring training.

When I heard the news, I yelled "I knew it, I knew I knew it". I hate to gloat knowing that there were Yankees taking it as well. But considering Ortiz's words and the shit some Red Sox fans gave Yankee fans about A-Rod, I'm going to enjoy this news as much as possible.

I don't want to hear shit from some people on ESPN trying to defend Ortiz either.

After Sosa's name was revealed, I predicted that 5 more names would be revealed before the end of the year. Looks like my prediction is half way from coming true.

I think any player that maybe on that list, is really better off coming clean then having their name revealed. A player is really at the mercy of whoever has that list.

[LBF]

This makes me oh so happy. Can't wait for the next series at Yankee Stadium for the giant STEROIDS chant for that fucking ape faced cunt.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again. That entire 2004 Red Sox lineup was on steroids.



Glass houses and stones, my friend. Your Yankees dynasty (96-00) has plenty of skeletons just waiting to fall out of the closet.

Clemens and Giambi are definitely guilty. I hope like hell that Paul ONeil did steroids because it would give everyone another reason to hate his guts. I've wondered if Knoblauch was juicing and that's why he lost the ability to throw the ball.


At this point, every title in the last 10 years is suspect, as sad as that is.

[Stormrider666]

Glass houses and stones, my friend. Your Yankees dynasty (96-00) has plenty of skeletons just waiting to fall out of the closet.

Clemens and Giambi are definitely guilty. I hope like hell that Paul ONeil did steroids because it would give everyone another reason to hate his guts. I've wondered if Knoblauch was juicing and that's why he lost the ability to throw the ball.


At this point, every title in the last 10 years is suspect, as sad as that is.

Knoblauch was mentioned in the Mitchell report. His problems throwing the ball were more mental than phyiscal.

Pretty much every Yankee fan excepts the fact that the teams from 1999 and 2000 have steroid users on them. But if Red Sox fans are going to give us shit about it, we are going to give shit to them about their 2004 team.

[UCJOE]

Glass houses and stones, my friend. Your Yankees dynasty (96-00) has plenty of skeletons just waiting to fall out of the closet.

Clemens and Giambi are definitely guilty. I hope like hell that Paul ONeil did steroids because it would give everyone another reason to hate his guts. I've wondered if Knoblauch was juicing and that's why he lost the ability to throw the ball.


At this point, every title in the last 10 years is suspect, as sad as that is.

Giambi???

Giambi signed in 2002 :action-sm

[fandango86]

lets assume everyone on the 2004 Red Sox World Championship team tested positive until otherwise proven. thats about where we are at now



fixed.

[Large Marge]

Bill Burr talked about this on one of his podcasts a few months back, he didn't mention a name, but probably was ortiz he was talking about. He said that he feels like an asshole getting so happy in 04, "depression era child" happy to finally see something good, big stupid grin. I feel the same way, he said it best though.

[bill333]

Oh, this just made my day.

The Douchebag Nation jusy got their comeuppance. Wonder if their is gonna be talk of an asterik next to their WS, like they pointed out about a certain other team.

[Jimmy's Dignity]

I wonder where Norton23 is....:haha7:

[lockjaaaaww]

You knew there had to be some Red Sox who juiced other than Manny. When the mitchell report came out and no red sox were named (mo vaughn and roger clemens juiced after leaving boston) I was screaming bullshit. Of course the cheater hits a double and a home run.

[Jimmy's Dignity]

When the mitchell report came out and no red sox were named (mo vaughn and roger clemens juiced after leaving boston) I was screaming bullshit.

me too...I was screaming conspiracy because Mitchell was/is a minority owner of the Red Sox

[ginaf20697]

I wonder where Norton23 is....:haha7:


http://cache.boston.com/bonzai-fba/Globe_Photo/2007/08/17/1187342194_3956.jpg

[Cybouncer]

Ortiz juiced up you say? I don't believe it.

Lots of guys can go from scrub to hero in 1 year. Then on to one of the most feared players in the league. Then, within 1 years time not be able to hit a pop-up out of shallow center.

It could happen.












And Steve Lattimer hit the weight room real hard over the summer...








.

[Kugzilla]

I am willing to donate an asterisk to the Sox. Here it is:




*

[Aaron Burrito]

I am willing to donate an asterisk to the Sox. Here it is:




*

Don't forget the Phillies too.:action-sm

[Kugzilla]

Don't forget the Phillies too.:action-sm

For example?

[Aaron Burrito]

For example?

Romero

[Kugzilla]

Romero

Yeah, well, there's that. Course, he tested positive right before the playoffs. Still stupid though. Here's Peter Gammons take on Romero, who should have known better than to shop at the Cherry Hill Mall:

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3812334

I'd say it's slightly different than some of the Mitchell Report stuff, but that's an arguable point I suppose.

[Aaron Burrito]

Yeah, well, there's that. Course, he tested positive right before the playoffs. Still stupid though. Here's Peter Gammons take on Romero, who should have known better than to shop at the Cherry Hill Mall:

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3812334

I'd say it's slightly different than some of the Mitchell Report stuff, but that's an arguable point I suppose.

Totally agree but at the end of the day it's a guy who was suspended 50 games for PEDs. And I'm sure there is at least one on every team.

[Cybouncer]

The fact is that there isn't a team out there who is going to be 100% clean. This is why I didn't go on and on about the fact that Arod did roids, but rather that he tried to play like he didn't know what he was taking. When Pettite got exposed, he took it like a man and admitted that he took them. End of story.

I'm curious to see what he (Ortiz) took and how he reacts to it. If he took something like Ephedrine, then I could give a shit. If he took something like Deca or Primo, then it's all over.

More info is needed...

[Steam]

The fact is that there isn't a team out there who is going to be 100% clean. This is why I didn't go on and on about the fact that Arod did roids, but rather that he tried to play like he didn't know what he was taking. When Pettite got exposed, he took it like a man and admitted that he took them. End of story.

I'm curious to see what he (Ortiz) took and how he reacts to it. If he took something like Ephedrine, then I could give a shit. If he took something like Deca or Primo, then it's all over.

More info is needed...


Pettitte lied about it too in the beginning when he said he just used them when coming back from injury in 2002. He then came clean later on, or at least we think he came clean.

I do love how the hypocrites in Boston gave Ortiz a standing ovation today. Hmmm, what about their judgment of ARod? Must be nice to live in those glass houses.

Anyway, for old time's sake.....1918! 1918! 1918!

[tysonpunchinguterus]

Here's Ortiz's lameresponse to the report:

"Today I was informed by a reporter that I was on the 2003 list of MLB players to test positive for performance-enhancing substances. This happened right before our game, and the news blind sided me. I said I had no comment because I wanted to get to the bottom of this. I want to talk about this situation and I will as soon as I have more answers. In the meantime I want to let you know how I am approaching this situation. One, I have already contacted the Players Association to confirm if this report is true. I have just been told that the report is true. Based on the way I have lived my life, I am surprised to learn I tested positive. Two, I will find out what I tested positive for. And, three, based on whatever I learn, I will share this information with my club and the public. You know me - I will not hide and I will not make excuses. I want to thank my family, the Red Sox, my teammates, and the fans for their patience and support."

Yeah, I'm sure he has no idea what he took.

[Steam]

Here's Ortiz's lameresponse to the report:

"Today I was informed by a reporter that I was on the 2003 list of MLB players to test positive for performance-enhancing substances. This happened right before our game, and the news blind sided me. I said I had no comment because I wanted to get to the bottom of this. I want to talk about this situation and I will as soon as I have more answers. In the meantime I want to let you know how I am approaching this situation. One, I have already contacted the Players Association to confirm if this report is true. I have just been told that the report is true. Based on the way I have lived my life, I am surprised to learn I tested positive. Two, I will find out what I tested positive for. And, three, based on whatever I learn, I will share this information with my club and the public. You know me - I will not hide and I will not make excuses. I want to thank my family, the Red Sox, my teammates, and the fans for their patience and support."

Yeah, I'm sure he has no idea what he took.

I hope the media second-guessers give Ortiz' statement the thorough examination they gave ARod's horseshit responses.

But for some reason, I highly doubt that will happen.

[LBF]

Pretty much every Yankee fan excepts the fact that the teams from 1999 and 2000 have steroid users on them. But if Red Sox fans are going to give us shit about it, we are going to give shit to them about their 2004 team.

Agreed. They deserve to get it as good as they gave it.

Giambi???

Giambi signed in 2002 :action-sm

Yea, my brain stopped thinking about 96-00 and moved on to recent Yankees. My bad on that one. And I can't believe I forgot all about Andy Pettite.

I hope the media second-guessers give Ortiz' statement the thorough examination they gave ARod's horseshit responses.

But for some reason, I highly doubt that will happen.


They won't because David Ortiz is "big, cuddly, great teammate Papi"....not "arrogant, gorgeous, bad teammate A-Rod."

It will surprise the hell out of me if the press gives this story 1/25 the coverage that A-Rod got. The press protects the guys that are nice to them and villifies the guys that aren't. ie: Jim Rice needing 15 tries to get in the HOF.

[lockjaaaaww]

I was watching Ortiz get interviewed and it pissed me off that no one asked "do you still think steroid users should be banned for a whole year for testing positive?"

[LilJimmyRbinson]

I was watching Ortiz get interviewed and it pissed me off that no one asked "do you still think steroid users should be banned for a whole year for testing positive?"

Shameful that they didn't ask that. It sounds like Ortiz is gonna be treated with kid gloves because the "worldwide leader" is in the hole for the Sox.

[billhill999]

Just release the whole fucking list already.


Sooo hoping Griffey and Pujols aren't on it.


1.Nomar Garciaparra
2.Manny Ramirez
3.Johnny Damon
4.Trot Nixon
5.David Ortiz
6.Shea Hillenbrand
7.Derek Lowe
8.Pedro Martinez
9.Brian Roberts
10.Jay Gibbons
11.Melvin Mora
12.Jerry Hairston
13.Jason Giambi
14.Alfonso Soriano
15.Raul Mondesi
16. Aaron Boone
17.Andy Pettitte
18.Jose Contreras
19.Roger Clemens
20.Carlos Delgado
21.Vernon Wells
22.Frank Catalanotto
23.Kenny Rogers
24.Magglio Ordonez
25.Sandy Alomar
26.Bartolo Colon
27.Brent Abernathy
28.Jose Lima
29.Milton Bradley
30.Casey Blake
31.Danys Baez
32.Craig Monroe
33.Dmitri Young
34.Alex Sanchez
35.Eric Chavez
36.Miguel Tejada
37.Eric Byrnes
38.Jose Guillen
39.Keith Foulke
40.Ricardo Rincon
41.Bret Boone
42.Mike Cameron
43.Randy Winn
44.Ryan Franklin
45.Freddy Garcia
46.Rafael Soriano
47.Scott Spiezio
48.Troy Glaus
49.Francisco Rodriguez
50.Ben Weber
51.Alex Rodriguez
52.Juan Gonzalez
53.Rafael Palmeiro
54.Carl Everett
55.Javy Lopez
56.Gary Sheffield
57.Mike Hampton
58.Ivan Rodriguez
59.Derrek Lee
60.Bobby Abreu
61.Terry Adams
62.Fernando Tatis
63.Livan Hernandez
64.Hector Almonte
65.Tony Armas
66.Dan Smith
67.Roberto Alomar
68.Cliff Floyd
69.Roger Cedeno
70.Jeromy Burnitz
71.Moises Alou
72.Sammy Sosa
73.Corey Patterson
74.Carlos Zambrano
75.Mark Prior
76.Kerry Wood
77.Matt Clement
78.Antonio Alfonseca
79.Juan Cruz
80.Aramis Ramirez
81.Craig Wilson
82.Kris Benson
83.Richie Sexson
84.Geoff Jenkins
85.Valerio de los Santos
86.Benito Santiago
87.Rich Aurilia
88.Barry Bonds
89.Andres Galarraga
90.Jason Schmidt
91.Felix Rodriguez
92.Jason Christiansen
93.Matt Herges
94.Paul Lo Duca
95.Shawn Green
96.Oliver Perez
97.Adrian Beltre
98.Eric Gagne
99.Guillermo Mota
100.Luis Gonzalez
101.Todd Helton
102.Ryan Klesko
103.Gary Matthews

[Cybouncer]

Here's Ortiz's lameresponse to the report:

Yeah, I'm sure he has no idea what he took.

He didn't say he had no idea, he said he didn't know what he tested positive for.

Like I said, it depends on what it is before I trash the guy. Ephedrine = I could care less. Deca, Primo, Winny = There's no defending him.

I was watching Ortiz get interviewed and it pissed me off that no one asked "do you still think steroid users should be banned for a whole year for testing positive?"

I was curious as to why that wasn't asked either. You will def see that question asked when he's interviewed by the media NOT from Boston.

[Jimmy's Dignity]

And Steve Lattimer hit the weight room real hard over the summer...
http://www.tiricosuave.com/images/draft_lattimer.jpg

hahahahahahaha, nice fucking call :clap:

[EvilMonkey71]

Well the point is RED SOX FANS cared. They cared a lot. They would never pass up a chance to throw it in Yankees fans' faces. Let's see how those fuckers feel with the shoe on the other foot.

X2

Their turn in the barrel!

I love how Ortiz said he was completely "blindsided" by this news. What, was Manny injecting him in his sleep?!?:rolleyes:

[poppAwoody]

Just release the whole fucking list already.


Sooo hoping Griffey and Pujols aren't on it.yea, pujols on it would really tarnish the only good image really left in baseball

[Jimmy's Dignity]

hahaha, gotta love Deadspin...

In Which We Drink In the Hilarious Naivete of Red Sox Nation (http://deadspin.com/5327199/in-which-we-drink-in-the-hilarious-naivete-of-red-sox-nation)
by Drew Magary
http://cache.gawker.com/assets/images/11/2009/07/504x_539w.jpg

Michael Schur (aka Ken Tremendous) is smarter and funnier than I'll ever be. That's why I was floored yesterday to see him post this on Twitter:
I can't believe that I'm surprised about David Ortiz doing steroids. But I'm surprised that David Ortiz did steroids.
You'd think every baseball fan on Earth right now would be more or less numb to the idea of a player being outed as a roider. Ah, but once again, we find that Red Sox fans believe they and their team poop sunshine and live on some sort of magical, negro-free cloud in the heavens. Oh sure, they expect a team like the FACKIN' YANKEES to have roiders. But not the precious Red Sox! They're different! Special! They'd never violate the bond they have their legendary fans, who have been known to keep entire city grids powered simply with the strength of their hearts!

You listen to me, you fucking retards. You're just another bunch of asshole fans rooting for another asshole team. And the fact that you think you're somehow above all that is what makes you utterly insufferable. I hope it turns out the Jason Varitek took HGH in 2004 and once killed a child in a drunken lawnmowing accident.

Lest you think I'm exaggerating about the self-importance of Red Sox fans (I can't believe I had to hear about this on my Blackberry in the sky!), there's this delightfully insane article in the Globe today about just how DEVASTATED they are by this. Look at that chick in the Globe's photo. She's gonna cry! What a loser. Here's the headline:

For legions of fans, a magic spell is broken

NO! NO! The enchantment has worn off! Quick, find all the juniper berries and hearts of cedar you can find. We shall produce a spell that will bring back our precious innocence!

The news struck like a thunderclap

MY WHOLD FACKIN' WARLD JUST GAWT RAWKED!

a bolt that shook fans to the core and bruised their fondest memories.

Oh, no! My precious memories! They've been sullied! Unclean! Unclean! Shouting FACK THE YANKEES will never be as sweet as it once was!

David Ortiz, the legendary Red Sox slugger adored by legions of fans, had reportedly used performance-enhancing drugs, a cruel revelation that left countless fans adrift and disillusioned.

"Now I don't believe in NOTHIN'! I'm going to law school!"

The scourge that has hung over the game for years, sullying many of the game's brightest stars, from Barry Bonds to Roger Clemens, had now claimed one of Boston's own.

No! Not here! I NEVER IMAGINED IT COULD HAPPEN HERE, EVEN THOUGH MANNY ALREADY TESTED POSITIVE!

He was a hero to a lot of us, and now it feels diluted, somehow,'' said Chris Healy, 48, of Norwich, Vt., pausing as he walked to the park with his two sons. "It just doesn't feel good."

Seriously, man. You're 48 years old. Take a look at this card of Ortiz with the Twins. Do you really think he got that big merely by eating arepas?

Others were disappointed, even crushed, but put up a brave face, saying they always suspected something was amiss. Even if they wouldn't let themselves believe it.

"The kid in you wants you to hope it's not true,'' Kevin Murray, a 35-year-old from Millbury, said between bites of an Italian sausage outside the park. "Even if you knew it all along."

Well, then the kid in you is wicked… you know…

"They just aren't as golden anymore,'' said Meghan Stipkovich, 31, heading to Fenway Park yesterday afternoon with her husband and 1-year-old daughter. "It's disheartening. We put them on such a pedestal, and it's tough to hear. Just very sad.''

You get the idea. All through the article are testimonials from fans who suspected Ortiz was a juicer (because Boston fans are so perceptive, you see), but refused to believe it because they're all innocent little fawns at heart. I promise you the Simmons article on this next week will include this stand-alone paragraph:

"But not Papi. Papi was different."

He's not. He's just another ballplayer trying to get ahead. And Red Sox Nation is just another group of shitheads wearing pink hats. Keep crying those delicious tears, gang.

[Stormrider666]

I hope the media second-guessers give Ortiz' statement the thorough examination they gave ARod's horseshit responses.

But for some reason, I highly doubt that will happen.

From what I have seen on ESPN over the past 24 hours, the anger is more about the names being leaked, then anger over Ortiz testing positive. So its safe to say that ESPN is showing its true colors when it comes to playing favorites.

[TreeFortRichard]

Let's not be naive here...do you really think that the reporters would report quotes from die hard sox fans like me? I have been to over 200 sox games in the last 10 years, and I am a huge red sox fan...If a reporter asked me if I was surprised to hear ortiz had tested positive I would have said "I don't know what the banned substance he tested positive for was, do you? I know you would like me to infer that it was steroids, and it very well could have been steroids, but there are 30 mlb teams w/ a total of 900 or so players and 100+ test positive...that's over 1 in 9..that means 3+ positives per team..So am I SURPRISED no..."
The reporters are going to create the story they want to present by selectively reporting the responses that give them the story they wish to manufacture. They want the underlying theme to be Betrayal and heart break...
A-rod wasn't "Beloved" so the twist they took with him was that he was a waste...despite the roids he still couldn't get it done...
EVERYONE was on something...that's how they secured massive contracts...Juice, stats, contract...

[Steam]

Let's not be naive here...do you really think that the reporters would report quotes from die hard sox fans like me? I have been to over 200 sox games in the last 10 years, and I am a huge red sox fan...If a reporter asked me if I was surprised to hear ortiz had tested positive I would have said "I don't know what the banned substance he tested positive for was, do you? I know you would like me to infer that it was steroids, and it very well could have been steroids, but there are 30 mlb teams w/ a total of 900 or so players and 100+ test positive...that's over 1 in 9..that means 3+ positives per team..So am I SURPRISED no..."


Maybe not, but I bet you that the reporter would be surprised that a Red Sox fan could do simple math.

[bill333]

Maybe not, but I bet you that the reporter would be surprised that a Red Sox fan could do simple math.


:icon_lol::icon_lol::icon_lol::icon_lol::icon_lol: :icon_lol:

[ceeps04]

This isn't real is it? I don't know where you got this from, but it fucking makes a lot of sense. Plus there's 8 Red Sox and only 6 Yankees. :action-sm


1.Nomar Garciaparra
2.Manny Ramirez
3.Johnny Damon
4.Trot Nixon
5.David Ortiz
6.Shea Hillenbrand
7.Derek Lowe
8.Pedro Martinez
9.Brian Roberts
10.Jay Gibbons
11.Melvin Mora
12.Jerry Hairston
13.Jason Giambi
14.Alfonso Soriano
15.Raul Mondesi
16. Aaron Boone
17.Andy Pettitte
18.Jose Contreras
19.Roger Clemens
20.Carlos Delgado
21.Vernon Wells
22.Frank Catalanotto
23.Kenny Rogers
24.Magglio Ordonez
25.Sandy Alomar
26.Bartolo Colon
27.Brent Abernathy
28.Jose Lima
29.Milton Bradley
30.Casey Blake
31.Danys Baez
32.Craig Monroe
33.Dmitri Young
34.Alex Sanchez
35.Eric Chavez
36.Miguel Tejada
37.Eric Byrnes
38.Jose Guillen
39.Keith Foulke
40.Ricardo Rincon
41.Bret Boone
42.Mike Cameron
43.Randy Winn
44.Ryan Franklin
45.Freddy Garcia
46.Rafael Soriano
47.Scott Spiezio
48.Troy Glaus
49.Francisco Rodriguez
50.Ben Weber
51.Alex Rodriguez
52.Juan Gonzalez
53.Rafael Palmeiro
54.Carl Everett
55.Javy Lopez
56.Gary Sheffield
57.Mike Hampton
58.Ivan Rodriguez
59.Derrek Lee
60.Bobby Abreu
61.Terry Adams
62.Fernando Tatis
63.Livan Hernandez
64.Hector Almonte
65.Tony Armas
66.Dan Smith
67.Roberto Alomar
68.Cliff Floyd
69.Roger Cedeno
70.Jeromy Burnitz
71.Moises Alou
72.Sammy Sosa
73.Corey Patterson
74.Carlos Zambrano
75.Mark Prior
76.Kerry Wood
77.Matt Clement
78.Antonio Alfonseca
79.Juan Cruz
80.Aramis Ramirez
81.Craig Wilson
82.Kris Benson
83.Richie Sexson
84.Geoff Jenkins
85.Valerio de los Santos
86.Benito Santiago
87.Rich Aurilia
88.Barry Bonds
89.Andres Galarraga
90.Jason Schmidt
91.Felix Rodriguez
92.Jason Christiansen
93.Matt Herges
94.Paul Lo Duca
95.Shawn Green
96.Oliver Perez
97.Adrian Beltre
98.Eric Gagne
99.Guillermo Mota
100.Luis Gonzalez
101.Todd Helton
102.Ryan Klesko
103.Gary Matthews

[LBF]

This isn't real is it? I don't know where you got this from, but it fucking makes a lot of sense. Plus there's 8 Red Sox and only 6 Yankees. :action-sm



7 Yankees. Giambi through Contreras on the list posted above. :action-sm


Obviously that's not the real list but it's intriguing and probably pretty accurate.


I don't think Soriano did streroids (if he did, he needs to ask for a refund). I don't think Derek Lee did because his "where did that come from" year happened after they were already testing with penalties (2005).

Zambrano, Alou, Sosa, Patterson and Kerry Wood wouldn't surprise me in the least.


Edit: forgot to mention I'm a Cub fan, hence my only talking about Cub players.

[LBF]

Another thing......


Anybody notice Nomar's little gem of a quote yesterday??

"Literally there were guys who weren’t going to take it and just said, ‘Put me on the list,’ because they wanted testing and we needed to get a certain number of positive tests (more than 5 percent) to do it."


So, he's saying that some clean players were willing to be anonymous "positives" in order to get above 5%. That sounds wonderful and noble until you realize it's complete bullshit. The only guys who were credited with testing positive are the guys who pissed in the cup and came back positive. Nomar's trying to do damage control for when the whole list comes out.

[domelogic]

and this list is not the entire league. they didnt test everyone, imagine if they did.


now if that is the list, i want to know where my phils are? i know they are not immune to this. i am sure all fans of every team want to know what players tested positive from their team.

still no asterisk for those years selig?


and lefty, there is no way a clean player wanted his name on the list to say he tested positive. yeah thats it they wanted testing so everyone could see they are clean ;)

[Aaron Burrito]

Another thing......


Anybody notice Nomar's little gem of a quote yesterday??

"Literally there were guys who weren’t going to take it and just said, ‘Put me on the list,’ because they wanted testing and we needed to get a certain number of positive tests (more than 5 percent) to do it."


So, he's saying that some clean players were willing to be anonymous "positives" in order to get above 5%. That sounds wonderful and noble until you realize it's complete bullshit. The only guys who were credited with testing positive are the guys who pissed in the cup and came back positive. Nomar's trying to do damage control for when the whole list comes out.

Maybe he worded it wrong but back in either 2002 or 2003 it was a real plan among some of the players to intentionally test positive. Whether or not any of them actually followed through with it is a mystery. And yes, they would have had to fail a piss test.

Supposedly a lot of the "clean" players were pissed about what was going on and wanted to trigger the clause that would mandate testing.

[ginaf20697]

How conveeeeeeeeenient!

[LBF]

Maybe he worded it wrong but back in either 2002 or 2003 it was a real plan among some of the players to intentionally test positive. Whether or not any of them actually followed through with it is a mystery. And yes, they would have had to fail a piss test.

Supposedly a lot of the "clean" players were pissed about what was going on and wanted to trigger the clause that would mandate testing.



I see where you're coming from, I just don't buy it. Players had to know the list would eventually come out.....it's too easy for someone to profit by leaking it. I can't see very many players running the risk of ruining their reputations for such a noble, selfless gesture.

However, as gina pointed out.....it sure gives a player a convenient excuse when his name is leaked. "My name's on the list? Well, that's because I deliberately tested positive to get over 5%."

Maybe I'm just cynical.

[Absolutely]

Like it was said, that list is probably pretty correct, I think.

I love looking at those people's stats.
12 Hr, 75 RBI
18 Hr, 81 RBI
17 Hr, 80 RBI
Then...
38 HR, 135 RBI
36 HR, 120 RBI

[LBF]

Like it was said, that list is probably pretty correct, I think.

I love looking at those people's stats.
12 Hr, 75 RBI
18 Hr, 81 RBI
17 Hr, 80 RBI
Then...
38 HR, 135 RBI
36 HR, 120 RBI



Here's Papi's yearly numbers from 00-06

10 HR 63 RBI
18 HR 48 RBI
20 HR 75 RBI
Trade to Boston and alleged PED use......
31 HR 101 RBI
41 HR 139 RBI
47 HR 148 RBI
54 HR 137 RBI

[Absolutely]

Here's Papi's yearly numbers from 00-06

10 HR 63 RBI
18 HR 48 RBI
20 HR 75 RBI
Trade to Boston and alleged PED use......
31 HR 101 RBI
41 HR 139 RBI
47 HR 148 RBI
54 HR 137 RBI

Yeah, they were giving out a ton of stats on Mike and Mike.
He was like the 179th ranked HR hitter in those Twins years, and then 1st or 2nd since with the Redsox.
He was something like 6th on the Twins in HRs during those seasons, behind a ton fo bums.

He was young, and might not have found his stroke, but Cmon.

[Hoagie]

So at what point do we say "Who cares? We all know the MAJORITY of major league players were doing some kind of banned substance at that time."?

Everyone is well aware of what went on back then and it's silly to hold it against anyone at this point. I'm certainly no Red Sox supporter but I don't hold it against Ortiz or anyone else for that matter. We all stand up and applaud the effort of a player who dives head first into the stands going after a foul ball even though that out may mean nothing compared to the effect of the player getting injured. But we appreciate players going all out to be the best they can.

This whole steroid thing is no different to me. These were players that went the extra mile and put their bodies on the line to be better players. I don't feel that it was particularly unfair because everyone could do it at the time. I agree that measures should be taken to make sure it's being done any more but don't blame players who did it in the past when it was acceptable. And it was acceptable, no matter what the rules were, or there would have been punishment back when they tested positive. Players in the '70s used amphetamines on a regular basis. They've openly admitted to it and yet no one is saying those Hall of Fame members should be removed for using performance enhancing drugs. It's time to take the same attitude with steroids.

[Steam]

So at what point do we say "Who cares? We all know the MAJORITY of major league players were doing some kind of banned substance at that time."?

Everyone is well aware of what went on back then and it's silly to hold it against anyone at this point. I'm certainly no Red Sox supporter but I don't hold it against Ortiz or anyone else for that matter. We all stand up and applaud the effort of a player who dives head first into the stands going after a foul ball even though that out may mean nothing compared to the effect of the player getting injured. But we appreciate players going all out to be the best they can.

This whole steroid thing is no different to me. These were players that went the extra mile and put their bodies on the line to be better players. I don't feel that it was particularly unfair because everyone could do it at the time. I agree that measures should be taken to make sure it's being done any more but don't blame players who did it in the past when it was acceptable. And it was acceptable, no matter what the rules were, or there would have been punishment back when they tested positive. Players in the '70s used amphetamines on a regular basis. They've openly admitted to it and yet no one is saying those Hall of Fame members should be removed for using performance enhancing drugs. It's time to take the same attitude with steroids.

Wow, I completely disagree with what you are saying. I would pick it apart but I don't want to be here all day.

[domelogic]

Wow, I completely disagree with what you are saying. I would pick it apart but I don't want to be here all day.

x2

[Hoagie]

Wow, I completely disagree with what you are saying. I would pick it apart but I don't want to be here all day.
Ok. You could offer some kind of opposing view even if it's not complete.

The fact is I just don't care what players were using steroids in 2003 because they were so widely available and heavily used and MLB did nothing to prevent it. It's MLB's fault more then it is the players who did what they had to do to stay competitive.

[Aaron Burrito]

Yeah, they were giving out a ton of stats on Mike and Mike.
He was like the 179th ranked HR hitter in those Twins years, and then 1st or 2nd since with the Redsox.
He was something like 6th on the Twins in HRs during those seasons, behind a ton fo bums.

He was young, and might not have found his stroke, but Cmon.

He was a platoon player with the Twins and wasn't a good fielder. If you look at his HR numbers along with AB's his numbers have been fairly consistent all his career. Minnesota knew they couldn't afford him so they let him walk in free agency. He wasn't a total unknown before going to Boston the way people make him out to be.

[ginaf20697]

Heh, the shitstorm is just beginning!

Report: BoSox probed steroid use in '08
Comment Email Print Share
ESPN.com news services

BOSTON -- A Boston newspaper is reporting the Red Sox fired two security staffers last summer after an investigation into steroid use.

Jared Remy, the son of Red Sox television commentator Jerry Remy, and Nicholas Alex Cyr both told The Boston Globe they used steroids, but denied any knowledge of drug use by players.

The Red Sox issued a statement saying they worked with Major League Baseball in investigating the staffers, but said that investigation is confidential. Major League Baseball said its investigation was "thorough and detailed."

"They didn't ask much at all; they wanted to make it disappear," Jared Remy said, according to the report.

The Globe says state police confiscated a vial of steroids from Cyr's car just before last year's All-Star break and Cyr told police he had bought the drug from Remy.

The league's investigation of the matter failed to uncover where Remy had obtained the steroids, the newspaper reported.

"I was never asked a question from anyone on the Red Sox -- not one," Remy said. "You would've thought they would've asked me something, you know?"

Cyr was accompanied by his mother to his meeting with an MLB investigator, according to the report. Cyr and his mother said the official was only interested in whether high-profile members of the team had been using steroids.

"That's all he wanted to know," said Lindsey Cyr. "He asked Alex if Alex had ever given any to Manny Ramirez and he said absolutely not.''

[askewcore]

And Steve Lattimer hit the weight room real hard over the summer...


Line of the thread

[WarshCloth]

Pettite and Clemens did them, no? How many World Series wins did they have for the Yankees?

Stop it...I'm a Met fan, and I'd love ot talk sh!t but I'm sure we're months away from Piazza or Benny Agabayani or Matt Franco or Edgardo Alfonzo comming out as taking it too.

They did it...so what?

Great point I heard on the radio the other day, athletes taking something illegal and getting no punishment for it, kinda like drinking in the 20's...like Ruth did all the time. BReakin the law is what sports is about, winning is secondary

[Aaron Burrito]

EDIT:Well this turned out to be pointless as a certain someone edited their post.


All of these players have been linked to steroids whether through the Mitchell report, failed tests or other investigations. Also, between all these reports only 100 players have been named. To automatically assume that the rest are clean is a little ridiculous since it appears pretty obvious that most players were using.

Andy Pettite
Kenny Rogers
John Wetteland
Knoblauch
El Duque
Stanton
Jason Grimsley
Ledee-Not 100% on this one
Clemens
Denny Neagle
David Justice

[Steam]

Ok. You could offer some kind of opposing view even if it's not complete.

The fact is I just don't care what players were using steroids in 2003 because they were so widely available and heavily used and MLB did nothing to prevent it. It's MLB's fault more then it is the players who did what they had to do to stay competitive.

You compare a guy basically hustling to fly or ground balls to steroids. It is fucking insanely stupid. The first a guy can do with his own god given talent. Sure, he risks injuring himself but he's doing it CLEANLY and to help his team. A player on steroids is doing something illegal (and don't give me semantics about how it wasn't banned in baseball) to pad his stats to make money. Obviously, I have no idea of the exact percentage but I think its a safe assumption that the vast majority of guys juicing weren't doing it "help the team". They were doing it for the paycheck. You can't say that about someone like Derek Jeter or Jim Edmonds or a guy like that.

Yes, Major League Baseball bears some of the responsibility but so does the Players Association, and by default THE PLAYERS.

You are right in the sense that it doesn't really matter and that we know that a lot of players were using. That much is correct. However, in the essence of fairness I think its refreshing that more players are being named and not just those with a connection to BALCO and Radomski/McNamee.

Find me one player who you can prove was juicing during that season...(you can't count Pettite because he openly admitted to juicing with the Astros when he was injured, and never did it with the Yankees)

1998 Yankees (won the most games in a single season at the time)


Knoblauch


Pettite

Stanton


Aside from Knoblauch, which you're inferring based on the fact that he went from a top of the line defensive second baseman to not being able to make a 45 foot throw to steroids instead of as mental breakdown (which could be among the stupidest, most misinformed things I've ever heard), who else looks suspect on this team?

1999 Yankees:

Knobby


Pettite
Clemens

Stanton
Jason Grimsley

Clemens was on the team, but he went 14-10 with a 4.60 ERA, doesn't look too juiced, Jason Grimsley admitted in his later years, so I'll give you that.

2000:

Knobby
David Justice


Petitte
Clemens
Denny Neagle

Stanton
Grimsley


Again, Clemens' name is there, but he went 13-8 with a 3.70 ERA. He still looks like an aging superstar, huh? Clemens juiced in 2001, when he went 20-3. The Yankees signed Giambi in 2002. He never won anything.

You can smash the Yankees for Giambi and A-Rod and Clemens, but until something is proven otherwise, there's nothing really suspect about the dynasty. Other than Jeffrey Maier.

Pettitte used in 2002 when he was trying to come back from injury. That was the first one that admitted to until it was proven that he used after that as well.

Knoblauch as well as other Yankees, especially from that 2000 team, were named in the Mitchell Report (Stanton, Neagle, Justice, etc). Also, regardless of what Clemens' numbers say, he was on the juice throughout his Yankees career. Fuck him.

The Yankees weren't exactly clean, but neither was any team in baseball at that time. And while they weren't clean, I don't think their two best players and a 3/4 combination compared to Ruth/Gehrig ever tested positive on their team.

[Steam]

EDIT:Well this turned out to be pointless as a certain someone edited their post.


All of these players have been linked to steroids whether through the Mitchell report, failed tests or other investigations. Also, between all these reports only 100 players have been named. To automatically assume that the rest are clean is a little ridiculous since it appears pretty obvious that most players were using.

Andy Pettite
Kenny Rogers
John Wetteland
Knoblauch
El Duque
Stanton
Jason Grimsley
Ledee-Not 100% on this one
Clemens
Denny Neagle
David Justice

I don't think we will ever have a clear percentage of the numbers but I think you can definitely rule some players out on those Yankees teams, such as Jeter, O'Neill, Bernie, Key, Cone, Mariano.

They were pretty consistent in their careers. Is it possible? Sure. But I highly doubt it. Also, I think that most of the Yankees from that era connected to them have been name via their Radomski/McNamee link.

[LBF]

He was a platoon player with the Twins and wasn't a good fielder. If you look at his HR numbers along with AB's his numbers have been fairly consistent all his career. Minnesota knew they couldn't afford him so they let him walk in free agency. He wasn't a total unknown before going to Boston the way people make him out to be.



Ortiz's AB per HR numbers jumped significantly once he moved to Boston.


2000- 415AB, 10HR = homer every 41.5AB
2001- 303AB, 18HR = homer every 16.8AB
2002- 412AB, 20HR = homer every 20.6AB
Trade to Boston
2003- 448AB, 31HR = homer every 14.5AB
2004- 582AB, 41HR = homer every 14.2AB
2005- 601AB, 47HR = homer every 12.8AB
2006- 558AB, 54HR = homer every 10.3AB


That's a pretty substantial improvement. I agree with you that it could be attributed to becoming an everyday player, it could be him simply improving as a hitter and moving to a more hitter friendly park. Or, it could be due to PEDs.

[LBF]

Originally Posted by askewcore

Aside from Knoblauch, which you're inferring based on the fact that he went from a top of the line defensive second baseman to not being able to make a 45 foot throw to steroids instead of as mental breakdown (which could be among the stupidest, most misinformed things I've ever heard), who else looks suspect on this team?

Actually, I'm inferring it because his name is mentioned in the Mitchell Report as a player who used steroids. I'm also basing on the fact that I've worked with athletes for 10 years and have seen first hand what steroids can do. Yes, it is very possible that Knobby lost the ability to make a 45 foot throw because of his brain. I won't argue that point. It is also very possible that he lost that ability due to steroids. I've seen it happen. It is not "stupid" or "misinformed." It is fact. Some players lose the ability to make short, pin-point throws when they get on steroids.


You can smash the Yankees for Giambi and A-Rod and Clemens, but until something is proven otherwise, there's nothing really suspect about the dynasty. Other than Jeffrey Maier.

The "dynasty" Yankees weren't juicing any more/less than anyone else during that time period. I was just busting some Yankee-fan balls. I'm a Cub fan for chrissakes, there's no doubt that they had some players on steroids back then. And even with the juicing the Cubs weren't good enough to make the playoffs.

[Hoagie]

You compare a guy basically hustling to fly or ground balls to steroids. It is fucking insanely stupid. The first a guy can do with his own god given talent. Sure, he risks injuring himself but he's doing it CLEANLY and to help his team. A player on steroids is doing something illegal (and don't give me semantics about how it wasn't banned in baseball) to pad his stats to make money. Obviously, I have no idea of the exact percentage but I think its a safe assumption that the vast majority of guys juicing weren't doing it "help the team". They were doing it for the paycheck. You can't say that about someone like Derek Jeter or Jim Edmonds or a guy like that.

Yes, Major League Baseball bears some of the responsibility but so does the Players Association, and by default THE PLAYERS.Let me ask you this. Do you think most players that used steroids did so because they needed them to get bigger contracts or because other players were doing them and they felt the need to keep up with them?

Granted it started with players looking to increase their performance either to get bigger contracts or stay in the majors but I'm willing to bet the majority of players that used steroids did so because they felt pressure to keep up with the other players using them.

As for whether they did it to help the team or for a bigger paycheck....it doesn't matter. The two aren't mutually exclusive. Every player plays to get a bigger paycheck AND help their team. Now the players do have some responsibility in all this since they did initially bring steroids into MLB. But MLB saw the whole Lyle Alzado controversy the NFL went through and they knew players used steroids. They could have cut it off early enough that they could have prevented players from being pressured into using steroids to keep up with other players and this mess wouldn't run nearly as deep as it does.

[Steam]

Let me ask you this. Do you think most players that used steroids did so because they needed them to get bigger contracts or because other players were doing them and they felt the need to keep up with them?

Granted it started with players looking to increase their performance either to get bigger contracts or stay in the majors but I'm willing to bet the majority of players that used steroids did so because they felt pressure to keep up with the other players using them.

As for whether they did it to help the team or for a bigger paycheck....it doesn't matter. The two aren't mutually exclusive. Every player plays to get a bigger paycheck AND help their team. Now the players do have some responsibility in all this since they did initially bring steroids into MLB. But MLB saw the whole Lyle Alzado controversy the NFL went through and they knew players used steroids. They could have cut it off early enough that they could have prevented players from being pressured into using steroids to keep up with other players and this mess wouldn't run nearly as deep as it does.

Regardless of the spin you put on it, steroids were still wrong and gave those who used them an unfair edge. Just because baseball was one of the sport where they had no testing doesn't make it right. Sure, some used them because they felt they needed to to provide, but others still chose not to. THOSE are the guys that we need to feel for since they most likely lost out on a comfortable pension due to players conducting their business dirty.

We all realize that a lot of people used during that era and its unfortunate, but we have a tendency of being a very forgiving society which is why some players who admitted to their mistakes are looked at differently. It is something that Pete Rose learned too late and players like Rafael Palmeiro and Barry Bonds haven't learned yet. Barry Bonds is the one I am most disappointed in (outside of A-Rod) since the guy was a Top 5 outfielder of all-time before he reportedly started using but his own ego and jealousy made him start using to gain recognition.

[lockjaaaaww]

I'm dying to hear Curt Schilling's reaction. The only time I actually wana hear the douche talk hes silent. If this were a yankee he'd open his big mouth though.

[LBF]

Barry Bonds is the one I am most disappointed in (outside of A-Rod) since the guy was a Top 5 outfielder of all-time before he reportedly started using but his own ego and jealousy made him start using to gain recognition.


x2


Bonds was heading toward being a first-ballot HOFer without a bit of outside "help." He had 40/40 offense combined with gold glove ability in the field and just couldn't stand guys like McGwire and Sosa hitting a few more homers every year.

[Steam]

x2


Bonds was heading toward being a first-ballot HOFer without a bit of outside "help." He had 40/40 offense combined with gold glove ability in the field and just couldn't stand guys like McGwire and Sosa hitting a few more homers every year.

The best all-around player ever and he uses steroids just for the ego. Look at how unreal his numbers were up through '98. Look at how he carried the Giants to respectability in '93 and that great division race between them and Atlanta. Or the 40/40 year. Great great player.

[tysonpunchinguterus]

Ortiz says he was"blindsided" when he learned that he had failed a test in 2003? Hmm, I wonder how he's going to explain the latest report that says the union told every player on that list that they were on the list when the feds seized the list and samples a few years ago. He's known for years that he failed a test, but I guess he just forgot that he's a cheater and was suddenly reminded of it that day.

As for people who say he got better because he learned to become a better hitter and used Fenway to pad his numbers: his Slugging % jumped 92 points from 2002 to 2003. He slugged .541 with 14 HRs on the road that year after having an overall slugging % of .500 with 20 HRs the year before. Fenway can't help his road numbers.

[LBF]

As for people who say he got better because he learned to become a better hitter and used Fenway to pad his numbers: his Slugging % jumped 92 points from 2002 to 2003. He slugged .541 with 14 HRs on the road that year after having an overall slugging % of .500 with 20 HRs the year before. Fenway can't help his road numbers.


I was wondering what his home/road splits looked like after he got traded to the Sox.......got too lazy. Thanks for looking it up.

[TreeFortRichard]

If they really wanted to quantify steroid use and the effect it has on players the real way to do it is to compare a players % of fly balls to the warning track vs home runs in the first 10 rows... If a guy hits home runs on a new team, like Ortiz, you are omitting the impact that a new team/hitting coach/philosophy can have on a player. There are a lot of players who when they make a move do much better. Think of how many times your team trades some guy and he tears it up on the new team...Of course in the Ortiz case it seems pretty obvious that ped's helped him out...And now I watch him fly out to the warning track night after night...over and over..and if only he could still be juicing they would be in the front row...Think of how many HR's that MacGuire hit just over the wall..Shit i think #61 or 62 or something was a screamer to left that just cleared the wall...Maybe w/ out roids that falls in front of the track or bounces off the wall.
Steroids don't improve hand eye coordination. They improve bat speed and power. If you can't hit then you will never hit no matter how much you juice. But if you put a lot of balls in play roids could help you get them over the wall...

I would love to see the stats on fly outs vs HR's

[Steam]

Shit i think #61 or 62 or something was a screamer to left that just cleared the wall...Maybe w/ out roids that falls in front of the track or bounces off the wall.

62 was the one you are talking about. Looked like a lazy line out.