"Torture" methods Described!

[SOS]

ABC News: CIA's Harsh Interrogation Techniques Described (http://abcnews.go.com/WNT/Investigation/story?id=1322866&page=1)

oh the horror!:icon_eek:

[LiddyRules]

Our Agents grabbed shirts?! They gave pink bellies!? This isn't my America.

[tar_baby]

are noogies involved in any way?

[abudabit]

6. Water Boarding: The prisoner is bound to an inclined board, feet raised and head slightly below the feet. Cellophane is wrapped over the prisoner's face and water is poured over him. Unavoidably, the gag reflex kicks in and a terrifying fear of drowning leads to almost instant pleas to bring the treatment to a halt.

According to the sources, CIA officers who subjected themselves to the water boarding technique lasted an average of 14 seconds before caving in. They said al Qaeda's toughest prisoner, Khalid Sheik Mohammed, won the admiration of interrogators when he was able to last between two and two-and-a-half minutes before begging to confess.

Fuck all the belly slaps and titty twisters, just do this.

[BIV]

Jesus. This is what we consider torture? We really have turned into pussies.

[GLENN_THE_TOOL]

how about swirlies, wedgies, and wet willies? or are they only reserved for top-level detainees? i bet Saddam gets atomic wedgies everyday.

the one thing i find the most humorous is that they force prisoners to listen to Eminem. what one culture finds entertaining another culture finds mania-inducing.

[Hudson]

Two Things:
Guess scraping the fingernails on a blackboard would constitute cruel and unusual punishment.
Ike Turner could find a new line of work if he is still alive

[JoeyDVDZ]

How dare we? Pink Bellies? Making them stand up? What kind of monsters are we? They're right to cut our heads off, we asked for it with the water we're pouring on them!

[sarcastic]

[BIV]

How dare we? Pink Bellies? Making them stand up? What kind of monsters are we? They're right to cut our heads off, we asked for it with the water we're pouring on them!

[sarcastic]
You are missing the point....they chlorinated that water.

[tar_baby]

how about swirlies, wedgies, and wet willies? or are they only reserved for top-level detainees? i bet Saddam gets atomic wedgies everyday.

the one thing i find the most humorous is that they force prisoners to listen to Eminem. what one culture finds entertaining another culture finds mania-inducing.

hehe...swirlies

[sclone]

You guys never cease to amaze me. Yeah, I guess making someone stand up for 40 hours straight is not torturous. Neither is hanging someone upside down and pouring water over their faces to simulate drowning. If you want to read an interesting book about US practices (it's a humorous book, not exactly biased or political, per se) during war, etc, read The Men Who Stare At Goats. It talks about the most disturbing and I guess amusing US military practices, like locking detainees in small boxes and blasting music from Barney for days at a time. It's very odd... The book is NOT Republican or Democrat (British Jon Ronson) and it doesn't point fingers or blame anyone for anything. It's an interesting and funny read, though. His first book, Them: Adventures With Extremists, is even better. Bizarre shit...

[Taso]

The detainees were also forced to listen to rap artist Eminem's "Slim Shady" album.Shit that is torture. I wouldnt wish that on my worst enemy.

[abudabit]

Yeah, I guess making someone stand up for 40 hours straight is not torturous. Neither is hanging someone upside down and pouring water over their faces to simulate drowning.

If course it's tortourous. That's what an interrogation is! Asking questions while a bright light is in your face is torture too. But it can't be described as harsh.

- In South Africa they would hook electrodes up to your balls and make them get so hot they would burst.
- In China they would stick irons up the asses of southern Mongolians who practiced thier culture too strongly. They would also force sons to fuck thier mothers at gun point.
- In the US they don't let you sleep or sit down for 40 hours.

One of these things, is not like the others. One of these things doesn't belong. One of these things, is not like the others. Can you tell me the name by the end of this song?

Stop being a pussy.

[tar_baby]

send em all to egypt...they roast you alive and ive heard that just the threat of getting sent to egypt has made some of the hardest terrorists talk

[sclone]

If course it's tortourous. That's what an interrogation is! Asking questions while a bright light is in your face is torture too. But it can't be described as harsh.

- In South Africa they would hook electrodes up to your balls and make them get so hot they would burst.
- In China they would stick irons up the asses of southern Mongolians who practiced thier culture too strongly. They would also force sons to fuck thier mothers at gun point.
- In the US they don't let you sleep or sit down for 40 hours.

One of these things, is not like the others. One of these things doesn't belong. One of these things, is not like the others. Can you tell me the name by the end of this song?

Stop being a pussy.

I'm not a pussy, I'm just rational. Aren't these things outlined somewhere (Geneva convention? I'm not exactly sure, honestly) and don't we abide by predetermined rules that have been agreed upon? I'm not saying one way or another whether the treatment is justified, but if we just back out of an agreement, doesn't that make us sort of hypocritical?

[abudabit]

Does it violate the geneva convention? How far does the geneva convention go? What was the intent when it was signed?

Think about these things.

[DoughBoy]

The over-PC horseshit makes me sick. Torture being defined as 'things that make you uncomfortable' is out of control. Why not just force them to eat a 10-sack of White Castles and wash it down with a 12-pack of Natty Ice. I promise the next morning will be considered torture.

Granted, there is a pseudo slippery slope arguement that can be made with citizen's rights and liberty, but I'm not so sure how much of the hype and propaganda that the bleeding hearts are willing to hold over my head to 'protect my rights' while they're trying to let bad bad people who are willing to KILL us for the sole reason of being us, not be forced to give up information that is going to save the lives of my countrymen.

[frankjg]

I'm not a pussy, I'm just rational. Aren't these things outlined somewhere (Geneva convention? I'm not exactly sure, honestly) and don't we abide by predetermined rules that have been agreed upon? I'm not saying one way or another whether the treatment is justified, but if we just back out of an agreement, doesn't that make us sort of hypocritical?

The Geneva convention only covers soldiers from an enemy country not fighters that are NOT fighting for a particular country.. They are terrorists that kill innocent civilians, cut the heads off of hostages, and fly airplanes into our fucking buildings... they do not play by the Geneva Convention rules.

[JoeyDVDZ]

I'm not a pussy, I'm just rational. Aren't these things outlined somewhere (Geneva convention? I'm not exactly sure, honestly) and don't we abide by predetermined rules that have been agreed upon? I'm not saying one way or another whether the treatment is justified, but if we just back out of an agreement, doesn't that make us sort of hypocritical?

Tell ya what, chief. When those fuckers start obeying the geneva conventions, I'll feel sorry for them when they're made to stand up. When those fuckers stop cutting heads off non-combatants in the name of their fucking religion, I'll start thinking maybe simulating drowning is too harsh.

They brought this shit on themselves. They have nobody but themselves to blame, and if they want this shit to stop, they'll stop fucking with the US.


The plain and simple fact of the matter is, the rules DO NOT APPLY here. They aren't law abiding people, and don't respect the Geneva Convention, so why should we? And point of fact, WE ARE. We're not causing any bodily harm to these fuckholes, though they DESPERATELY deserve anything our boys want to do to them, we're using approved means of extracting vital intel from people who don't respect anything we're about and, given the chance, will actively CUT YOUR FUCKING HEAD OFF, whether you believe they're being percecuted or not. How the hell can you defend these animals at all?

I can't stop editing this post. I can't leave this shit go.

I agree that there are rules that should be followed. Rules of war, rules of engagement. No bombing residential areas. These people, however, broke every rule we're supposed to follow as civilized countries. They hid soldiers in schools and hospitals, they abduct us from the streets, noncoms, and cut their heads off, they send children strapped with bombs to blow us up.

The US is fucked forever, unless we decide, unanimously, to roll up our sleeves and play dirty ball just like they do.

[Jimmy's Dignity]

Here's where I got it, first hit off of a Google search (http://www.unhchr.ch/html/menu3/b/91.htm)

Article 4

A. Prisoners of war, in the sense of the present Convention, are persons belonging to one of the following categories, who have fallen into the power of the enemy:

1. Members of the armed forces of a Party to the conflict as well as members of militias or volunteer corps forming part of such armed forces.

2. Members of other militias and members of other volunteer corps, including those of organized resistance movements, belonging to a Party to the conflict and operating in or outside their own territory, even if this territory is occupied, provided that such militias or volunteer corps, including such organized resistance movements, fulfil the following conditions:
(a) That of being commanded by a person responsible for his subordinates;
(b) That of having a fixed distinctive sign recognizable at a distance;
(c) That of carrying arms openly;
(d) That of conducting their operations in accordance with the laws and customs of war.

The Geneva Convention was initially drafted after the First World War, framing a general Code of Conduct for "modern" warfare. It has been amended and updated as time has gone on...I believe the most recent revision etc was in August of 1949.

Art. 4. Persons protected by the Convention are those who, at a given moment and in any manner whatsoever, find themselves, in case of a conflict or occupation, in the hands of a Party to the conflict or Occupying Power of which they are not nationals.

Nationals of a State which is not bound by the Convention are not protected by it. Nationals of a neutral State who find themselves in the territory of a belligerent State, and nationals of a co-belligerent State, shall not be regarded as protected persons while the State of which they are nationals has normal diplomatic representation in the State in whose hands they are.
That one is from right here (http://www.icrc.org/ihl.nsf/0/6756482d86146898c125641e004aa3c5?OpenDocument)

It's these reasons why I get so upset at certain members of Congress and the Press. These are not normal soldiers, nor are they a legitimate milita. They are not afforded the protections granted by the Geneva Conventions. I know that we are supposed to be the moral ones in this fight, but by handcuffing ourselves to an agreement by which our enemies don't adhere is assinine.

Joey, I don't think sclone is defending them in the slightest, he's just bringing up valid questions from the information that he's been given. He even said, Aren't these things outlined somewhere (Geneva convention? I'm not exactly sure, honestly) Can't blame him for questioning...just gotta show how some certain people (read "certain members of Congress and the Press") will just use whatever they choose to craft people's knowledge/thought to what they wish

[JoeyDVDZ]

I try to be neutral, but I hate these fucking savages. I can't help it. I would pay good money to see someone step up and decide to wipe them from the planet once and for all.

I just don't like 'em.

And while he may not be defending them per se, he certainly is questioning our methods. We're doing what we need to do to save our citizens lives. These animals have no problem with blowing us up, so I have no problem in us doing whatever we have to do to ensure that they don't.

[BruceKellysJunk]

here is a hypothetical question for you all

What if they captured somebody who had knowledge as to where Osama or other terrorists were, lets say his grandmother for example, but was not willing to turn him in because he is family or whatever. She is NOT a member of a terrorist organization and has done nothing to harm anyone. Do we do whatever it takes to get this information out of her even if it means punching her in the face or nipple clamps? We wouldnt use those kinds of tactics here in america if somebody was protecting the BTK killer or the snipers or anyone like that. How do we decide who gets tortured and who doesnt?

[JoeyDVDZ]

They started this shit where the rules of engagement don't apply. My buddy Doug Farnum didn't do anything to those fucktards, and yet he didn't come home on September 11, 2001. So my personal belief is whatever we have to do to take these animals down, even if it means being animals ourselves, is acceptable in this case.

[Taso]

here is a hypothetical question for you all

What if they captured somebody who had knowledge as to where Osama or other terrorists were, lets say his grandmother for example, but was not willing to turn him in because he is family or whatever. She is NOT a member of a terrorist organization and has done nothing to harm anyone. Do we do whatever it takes to get this information out of her even if it means punching her in the face or nipple clamps? We wouldnt use those kinds of tactics here in america if somebody was protecting the BTK killer or the snipers or anyone like that. How do we decide who gets tortured and who doesnt?
Im not too up on the law so I may be wrong, but I think here in NYC the grandmother would be charged for either Harboring a Criminal or Aiding and Abeding.

[BruceKellysJunk]

Im not too up on the law so I may be wrong, but I think here in NYC the grandmother would be charged for either Harboring a Criminal or Aiding and Abeding.


I agree with that, but does it justify using torture to get the information out? Personally, I cant decide.

[JoeyDVDZ]

I say take a blowtorch to granny's face. She'll tell anything she knows. Fuck the rules.

[LiddyRules]

Im not too up on the law so I may be wrong, but I think here in NYC the grandmother would be charged for either Harboring a Criminal or Aiding and Abeding. The question isn't should she be charged with the crime but whether she should be tortured to get the info out of her. But I mean, it's not like we're going to be nipple clamping her (as hot as that would be) but we'd definitely temper our interrogation attempts based on her and her health and her age in such extenuating circumstances. I mean under these rules removing the plastic from her couch could be considered unsavory information gathering techniques.

Though to be honest, the idea of a scene between Jack Bauer and that lady from The Wedding Singer makes me laugh.

[Taso]

I agree with that, but does it justify using torture to get the information out? Personally, I cant decide.
Yes it does, because helping a terrorist "in bifacto" also makes you a terrorist. So then she deserves the same shit that all the other terrorist scum get.

[Taso]

The question isn't should she be charged with the crime but whether she should be tortured to get the info out of her. But I mean, it's not like we're going to be nipple clamping her (as hot as that would be) but we'd definitely temper our interrogation attempts based on her and her health and her age in such extenuating circumstances. I mean under these rules removing the plastic from her couch could be considered unsavory information gathering techniques.

Though to be honest, the idea of a scene between Jack Bauer and that lady from The Wedding Singer makes me laugh.
See my last post to understand the intention of my reply that you quoted

[JoeyDVDZ]

Simple answer to your question would be, these asshats want to die. They don't give a shit about how they get there. So it's our duty to:

A. Arrange the meeting between them and god
B. Make it hurt as much, and as long, as humanly possible. That way we at least get something out of it.

[crescentwrench]

I'm still not visualizing the fake drowning thing. They just hold saran wrap over your head and pour water? Wouldn't that suffocate you anyway? Maybe someone could make a video of this.

[Jimmy's Dignity]

I'm still not visualizing the fake drowning thing. They just hold saran wrap over your head and pour water? Wouldn't that suffocate you anyway? Maybe someone could make a video of this.
Pretend you're doing decline bench press. Your feet in the air, your head down low. Cover face with Saran Wrap, effectively cutting off air, pour water over wrap; repeat (at least that's what I hope...I wouldn't want them to only pretend to cut off their air):icon_redf

[BruceKellysJunk]

Pretend you're doing decline bench press. Your feet in the air, your head down low. Cover face with Saran Wrap, effectively cutting off air, pour water over wrap; repeat (at least that's what I hope...I wouldn't want them to only pretend to cut off their air):icon_redf


Sounds hot. Do the interrogators mind if you jerk off while they pour the water?

[Jimmy's Dignity]

They tend to frown upon that unless you're Michael Hutchence :action-sm

[abudabit]

There's probably restricted breathing. They said one guy held on for 2.5 minutes which would suggest air.

[sclone]

Joey - You're at one extreme of the spectrum (re: completely sociopathic and sadistic). We see the terrorists as savages, correct? So if we used identical practices, the rest of the world will see us as savages. I predict you'll say something like, "I don't give a fuck. Let's fucking nuke those sand monkeys." But by harboring this kind of attitude, you're just a terrible hypocrite. Again, I'm expecting some kind of, "Who gives a fuck about being hypocrites?" But somewhere, someone has to uphold some sort of decency in our actions.

To be honest, if I were a soldier I'm sure I'd feel much better about this. It's easy to sit at home and say they should act this or that way. But there's probably somewhere in the middle, some ammendment that would at least satisfy most of the people.

[abudabit]

Sclone, torture is already partially banned. These articles make it seem like every prisoner gets sent off for torture when they only do it to certain prisoners, and only a select few agents are allowed to do these tortures. On top of that all of these tortures range from mild to lower moderate in intensity.

An amendment would either only ban all torture (and interrogation is a form of torture), or it would contain so many subjective words that it would be irrelevant.

Everything is fine the way it is. We don't need more or less intense torture.

[TimTA95]

There is a very gray area when it comes to torture IMO. It can only work if we know that we absolutely know they have the info they are about to get out of them. If you get someone who honestly doesnt know what we are trying to get out of them, wouldnt you think they would say just about anything to make the torture stop? Torture can be the best source to get your info fast but most of the times it provides bogus shit and worst case makes a new terrorist out of someone who originally wasnt. Thats just my 2c.

[sclone]

Torture can be the best source to get your info fast but most of the times it provides bogus shit and worst case makes a new terrorist out of someone who originally wasnt. Thats just my 2c.

:clap:

[Taso]

Joey - You're at one extreme of the spectrum (re: completely sociopathic and sadistic). We see the terrorists as savages, correct? So if we used identical practices, the rest of the world will see us as savages. I predict you'll say something like, "I don't give a fuck. Let's fucking nuke those sand monkeys." But by harboring this kind of attitude, you're just a terrible hypocrite. Again, I'm expecting some kind of, "Who gives a fuck about being hypocrites?" But somewhere, someone has to uphold some sort of decency in our actions.Now let me ask you something sir, hypothetically speaking, they catch someone that does have information that is necessary to putting these sand monkeys in their place. We have them in a holding cell, what should we do, put up a room at the Ritz Carlton, nice white soft down pillows so the scum wont get a stiff neck, maybe a little room service. Fuck them, their savages contributing to the problems of society and they should be treated like the animals they are.

[JoeyDVDZ]

Joey - You're at one extreme of the spectrum (re: completely sociopathic and sadistic). We see the terrorists as savages, correct? So if we used identical practices, the rest of the world will see us as savages. I predict you'll say something like, "I don't give a fuck. Let's fucking nuke those sand monkeys." But by harboring this kind of attitude, you're just a terrible hypocrite. Again, I'm expecting some kind of, "Who gives a fuck about being hypocrites?" But somewhere, someone has to uphold some sort of decency in our actions.

To be honest, if I were a soldier I'm sure I'd feel much better about this. It's easy to sit at home and say they should act this or that way. But there's probably somewhere in the middle, some ammendment that would at least satisfy most of the people.

Although my first reaction is, indeed, to say let them all burn, I am not a savage when all is said and done. I don't agree with torture as a principle. That being said, if there is OVERWHELMING evidence that a detainee in question knows something that can stop a terrorist attack from occuring, or that can bring in someone of the stature of Osama Bin Laden, then I don't see any real moral gray area in torturing the detainee to get the information he/she has. Notice, I said overwhelming. Not the nonsense Bush pulled, sending our troops into Iraq for the supposed WMD's, which may or may not have existed. Rather, I would reserve the hardcore tactics for the ones who have been proven to have ties to terror networks and/or credible evidence that they are involved.


There. Did I surprise you?

[jules]

ok i guess i am a savage myself here,but these guys do not play by rules at all-NOT AT ALL-now i know we are supposed to be better and more civilized, and all that,but at what point do we say enough is enough? do we forget that it is a lot of these "religious peoples" God damn lifes destiny to KILL all of us? are we going to really spend so much time playing fair with torture,when they cut off journalists heads on fucking TV? maybe i am an ass about this, but i just cannot see how much more we can keep following rules that these people will never even consider, and even if they have proof that we play fair,they are still going to cut off heads.i just think that sometimes you gotta play fuckin dirty with dirty fuckin people. and im not ripping anybody who doesnt agree,i will just never understand ALWAYS wanting to be fair play guy,when it could ultimately bring you down

[abudabit]

I don't think we should be allowed to torture insurgent infantrymen, but we should be able to torture bombers and thier associates. One fights like soldiers should, and one fights like terrorists. One falls under the Geneva Convention, and one doesn't. It's pretty fucking simple.

Now as to whether torture is effective, that is debatable. But to say we shouldn't be allowed to torture covert operatives who tend to kill more civillians than soldiers is just insane.

[sclone]

There. Did I surprise you?

Pleasingly, yes. Your initial reaction seemed a little stronger.

[abudabit]

Pleasingly, yes. Your initial reaction seemed a little stronger.

That's called the Wackbag effect.

[jules]

I don't think we should be allowed to torture insurgent infantrymen, but we should be able to torture bombers and thier associates. One fights like soldiers should, and one fights like terrorists. One falls under the Geneva Convention, and one doesn't. It's pretty fucking simple.

Now as to whether torture is effective, that is debatable. But to say we shouldn't be allowed to torture covert operatives who tend to kill more civillians than soldiers is just insane.
thats the problem over there,who is the infantrymen, and who are the animals? thats not fucking simple

[abudabit]

Holding gun, or even mortar = infantry
Wearing / driving bomb, or working on, managing or assisting = terrorist

[jules]

Holding gun, or even mortar = infantry
Wearing / driving bomb, or working on, managing or assisting = terrorist
you know what i am saying here,not all these guys conduct their armies in the same basic combat styles that were described when those rules were outlined.we should follow this form of the rules when they are breaking about 50 other rules outlined in the same treaty?

[Hudson]

didn't these same guys throw people into plastic shredding machines and blow up...I don't know, a few buildings by flying planes into them??
Nad dont say they were only soldiers following orders, That shit didn't work in Neuremberg

[ShaunC1000]

I heard these poor detainees had to listen to a Rich Vos CD.

[HummerTuesdays]

Why don't we just replace the word "torture" with "coercion tactics"? It doesn't sound as bad. :action-sm

[JoeyDVDZ]

Pleasingly, yes. Your initial reaction seemed a little stronger.

I see you've been a member for a long time, but you're woefully short on posts. Do you read the board? It's almost a law here, be extreme in every opinion you have! (I don't like islamics, won't even claim I do. Even the ones who "like" us, want us dead.)

That being said, I do think you fight fire with fire. If they are brutal to us, we should have the right to be just as brutal back.

[ShaunC1000]

Why don't we just replace the word "torture" with "coercion tactics"? It doesn't sound as bad. :action-sm

we should just call it "teen torture".. makes it sound sexy

[sclone]

Thought this was sort of interesting. This is from the NY Times this morning (paper copy, sorry no link)... The headline is "Shift on Suspect is Linked to Role of 2 Qaeda Figures." It's about Jose Padilla, and how the government has chosen to lessen his charges after holding him for three years.

"...the decision not to charge him criminally in connection with the more far-ranging bomb plots was prompted by the conclusion that Mr. Mohammed and Mr. Zubaydah could almost certainly not be used as witnesses, because that could expose classified information and could open up charges from defense lawyers that their earlier statements were a result of torture, officials said."

Without the testimony, officials said, it would be nearly impossible for the United States to prove the charges."

So can someone explain to me the purpose of using questionably torturous methods to pry information that we can't use anyway because of the techniques we used to get it? Doesn't make much sense to me.

[JoeyDVDZ]

And that is why there are different rules in place, legally speaking, for enemy combatants vs. habib running his falafel stand on the corner.

[abudabit]

To answer your question, Sclone, the torture is meant to gather intelligence - not to be used in the prosecution of a person. If the prosecuters did indeed use torture to get a confession then that means the case should be dismissed.

[Nortonsmeatytit]

I used to work with a guy who was in Vietnam and stated to me that they used to take captured VC and handcuff them to a chair and slap them on the sides of the head with phone books until they gave up information. He mentioned that it used to work "like a charm"

[Nortonsmeatytit]

Oh, almost forgot. He mentioned that if the phone book didn't work, they would blindfold them and take them out to a waiting helicopter that was running. Put them on the helicopter and shout at them to talk or they'd throw them out of it. Then if the guy still didn't talk, they'd put him in the helicopter, take it up to about 20 ft. wait 5 or 10 mins. Then throw him out of it. When they hit the ground they were so fucking freaked out that they either spilled their guts or just passed out, at that point they'd wait till they came around and start the whole process all over again.

[jules]

Oh, almost forgot. He mentioned that if the phone book didn't work, they would blindfold them and take them out to a waiting helicopter that was running. Put them on the helicopter and shout at them to talk or they'd throw them out of it. Then if the guy still didn't talk, they'd put him in the helicopter, take it up to about 20 ft. wait 5 or 10 mins. Then throw him out of it. When they hit the ground they were so fucking freaked out that they either spilled their guts or just passed out, at that point they'd wait till they came around and start the whole process all over again.
nice:hamm::icon_mrgr

[Hoo Hoo Howie]

- In China..... They would also force sons to fuck thier mothers at gun point.



That's HOT

[Van]

If you attach a battery to a mans balls he will tell you what you want to hear.

The torture of innocent civilians carried out by the US govt has led to nothing.

Hey, comfortable-with-the-current-government people, the longer the US keeps up these practices, the longer terrorism exists.

They do what you do. You condone torture like they do. Next time you watch an American get his head cut off, think about why that American is there.

[abudabit]

That's HOT

I smell bit.

[db16947]

If you attach a battery to a mans balls he will tell you what you want to hear.

The torture of innocent civilians carried out by the US govt has led to nothing.

Hey, comfortable-with-the-current-government people, the longer the US keeps up these practices, the longer terrorism exists.

They do what you do. You condone torture like they do. Next time you watch an American get his head cut off, think about why that American is there.
we make them wear underwear on their head , and they cut ours off...one of these seems a little extreme. Dude , we have to take you somewhere to get you deprogrammed

[abudabit]

So what's that goofy flag that HappinessIs has on his sig? It looks like either an off color Irish flag or a reversed Brazillian state flag (forgot the state).

[Hudson]

I believe George did state: "Whatever It Takes" In the early speeches...
I still say... Fuck The Animals!
They capture and behead innocent workers on live internet and we are expected to serve Watercress and Cucumber Sandwiches to the filthy killers!???????

[Van]

So what's that goofy flag that HappinessIs has on his sig? It looks like either an off color Irish flag or a reversed Brazillian state flag (forgot the state).

New York City. Sound familiar?

[edit: country people can't google]

[abudabit]

How does one google a flag of unknown origin?

[Van]

How does one google a flag of unknown origin?

One types "New York City Flag (http://images.google.co.uk/images?q=new%20york%20city%20flag&sourceid=mozilla-search&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-GB:official&sa=N&tab=wi)" into Google. Then click images.

One can type this (http://images.google.co.uk/images?svnum=10&hl=en&lr=&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-GB%3Aofficial&q=texas+sucks&btnG=Search) too.

[Van]

we make them wear underwear on their head , and they cut ours off...one of these seems a little extreme. Dude , we have to take you somewhere to get you deprogrammed

Does deprogramming include blindnesss to the obvious? Sign me up. I can live with total ignorance. It sounds peaceful.

Torture (http://www.channel4.com/news/microsites/T/torture/)

Torture torrent (http://www.mininova.org/tor/162298)

[JonBenetRamsey]

if they're not american, i see no problem with torturing, filthy savage pagans. and with this whole can't use confessions where torture was used, fine, get the info, kill them and make it look like an accident. works like a charm.

[Van]

if they're not american, i see no problem with torturing, filthy savage pagans. and with this whole can't use confessions where torture was used, fine, get the info, kill them and make it look like an accident. works like a charm.

Does your state let you vote? It's not always 'non-Americans (http://www.antiwar.com/ips/fisher.php?articleid=4472)'. Big letters too.

[Van]

Good job saving the country from evil (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4475030.stm).

[JonBenetRamsey]

Does your state let you vote? It's not always 'non-Americans (http://www.antiwar.com/ips/fisher.php?articleid=4472)'. Big letters too.
key word in that article, allegedly. and fuck him too.

[Taso]

One types "New York City Flag (http://images.google.co.uk/images?q=new%20york%20city%20flag&sourceid=mozilla-search&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-GB:official&sa=N&tab=wi)" into Google. Then click images.

One can type this (http://images.google.co.uk/images?svnum=10&hl=en&lr=&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-GB%3Aofficial&q=texas+sucks&btnG=Search) too.
No sir what he meant was, If he doesnt know that flag is from New York City, then how will he go about typing New York City into Google.

[Van]

No sir what he meant was, If he doesnt know that flag is from New York City, then how will he go about typing New York City into Google.

Silly me.

I wrote New York City above his post, leading in the wrong direction.

[abudabit]

Do you even know what inductive logic is, HappinessIs? Sherlock Holmes used inductive reasoning and was only capable of it because his author already knew the answer. In the real world it doesn't work.

How can one deductivly discover that that is the New York City flag? Besides asking of course, which is the route I took - so far the most effective. Perhaps you can show us a google query linking to the NYC flag that doesn't use inductive logic...

[sclone]

Silly me.

I wrote New York City above his post, leading in the wrong direction.

Dude, I'm with you politically, but this flag thing is ridiculous. You're acting as if someone is stupid for not googling a picture of a flag? So if someone showed you a non-descript symbol, you could google it to figure out what it means? You're coming off very poorly.

[tar_baby]

is he abusing innocents?

if he is abusing prisoners and insurgents....thats fine with me...fuck em

[Van]

Jesus, forget about the flag. I don't think anyone is stupid. I didn't expect anyone to recognise the flag. I don't think most New Yorkers would recognise the flag.

:repeat: I think most of you are fairly well educated.

Would HappinessIs say that?

[tar_baby]

to appease us and make us not think you are him?...yes

[Van]

to appease us and make us not think you are him?...yes

absolu....wait....what?

[jarabforlife]

I agree with that, but does it justify using torture to get the information out? Personally, I cant decide.

It is worth torturing her because it's Osama Bin Laden, someone who is responsible for over 3,000 Americans dead! We didn't lose that many people in the first gulf war or the War in Iraq. I would feel no remorse using torture as a method of finding his whereabouts.

[jules]

If you attach a battery to a mans balls he will tell you what you want to hear.

The torture of innocent civilians carried out by the US govt has led to nothing.

Hey, comfortable-with-the-current-government people, the longer the US keeps up these practices, the longer terrorism exists.

They do what you do. You condone torture like they do. Next time you watch an American get his head cut off, think about why that American is there.
so terrorism is only out there because of us ,huh? what about the guy from the suburbs of philly( i apologize i forget his name) who was one of the first to have that video put out by those animals,he was ther because he chose to be. and i guess that is what we do,huh genious,is torture innocent civilians? what about those fucking innocent civilians in fallujah that burned and hung the bodies of those contractors about a year and a half ago? innocent fuckin civilians..yeah.but we are the blind sheep because we agree with the torture thing? nice call

[Jimmy's Dignity]

what about the guy from the suburbs of philly( i apologize i forget his name) who was one of the first to have that video put out by those animals,he was ther because he chose to be. and i guess that is what we do, huh genious, is torture innocent civilians?Nick Berg.

I agree though...because we have been overly zealous as interrogators the Arabs have been blowing up Israelis in their street-side cafe's ever since 1949. Yup. Looks like because of the Americans and our interrogation tactics terrorism will never die. Good thing that their religion doesn't call for violent struggle against those whom practice or believe differently...:icon_roll

[jules]

Nick Berg.

I agree though...because we have been overly zealous as interrogators the Arabs have been blowing up Israelis in their street-side cafe's ever since 1949. Yup. Looks like because of the Americans and our interrogation tactics terrorism will never die. Good thing that their religion doesn't call for violent struggle against those whom practice or believe differently...:icon_roll
thank you jimmy's dignity- i feel bad i forgot the kids name

[Van]

so terrorism is only out there because of us ,huh? what about the guy from the suburbs of philly( i apologize i forget his name) who was one of the first to have that video put out by those animals,he was ther because he chose to be. and i guess that is what we do,huh genious,is torture innocent civilians? what about those fucking innocent civilians in fallujah that burned and hung the bodies of those contractors about a year and a half ago? innocent fuckin civilians..yeah.but we are the blind sheep because we agree with the torture thing? nice call

Yep, the reason Americans have been killed by terrorists is that Americans were there. Why were Americans there?

After hundreds of fucking years Northern Ireland is just starting to sort their shit out. The Brits have tortured, killed then appeased the fucking animals that blow up women and children over here.

Can you picture seeing a man that murdered innocent kids released from prison to keep the other terrorists happy? That's what happened. Many times over.

Why should America get caught up in this BS? Can't you learn from example?

[tar_baby]

ireland?...oh this definitely is happinessis

[Van]

ireland?...oh this definitely is happinessis

What have the drug induced rantings of a big fat Floridian maniac been lately? Is he telling you everything is going to be OK?

[abudabit]

ireland?...oh this definitely is happinessis

Of course, who else would it be?

[Van]

Is it getting better?
Or do you feel the same?
Will it make it easier on you now?
You got someone to blame
You say

One love
One life
When it's one need
In the night
One love
We get to share it
Leaves you baby if you
Don't care for it

Did I disappoint you?
Or leave a bad taste in your mouth?
You act like you never had love
And you want me to go without
Well it's

Too late
Tonight
To drag the past out into the light
We're one, but we're not the same
We get to
Carry each other
Carry each other
One

Have you come here for forgiveness?
Have you come to raise the dead?
Have you come here to play Jesus?
To the lepers in your head

Did I ask too much?
More than a lot.
You gave me nothing,
Now it's all I got
We're one
But we're not the same
Well we
Hurt each other
Then we do it again
You say
Love is a temple
Love a higher law
Love is a temple
Love the higher law
You ask me to enter
But then you make me crawl
And I can't be holding on
To what you got
When all you got is hurt

One love
One blood
One life
You got to do what you should
One life
With each other
Sisters
Brothers
One life
But we're not the same
We get to
Carry each other
Carry each other

[jules]

Yep, the reason Americans have been killed by terrorists is that Americans were there. Why were Americans there?

After hundreds of fucking years Northern Ireland is just starting to sort their shit out. The Brits have tortured, killed then appeased the fucking animals that blow up women and children over here.

Can you picture seeing a man that murdered innocent kids released from prison to keep the other terrorists happy? That's what happened. Many times over.

Why should America get caught up in this BS? Can't you learn from example?
oh boy,how is the view from the top of the soap box?so if we werent there,terrorism will just go away,huh? one difference between n. ireland and the "peaceful muslims" is that those fucking animals could be bargained with. their is no bargaining with these animals. i love guys like you,if now was the late 30's,early 40's, i guarantee you would be calling for a complete pullout from germany and japan. we ARE caught up in this bullshit whether you like it or not,and we DIDNT ask to be, we were forced.

[Van]

never mind.

[tar_baby]

as ive always said...if the liberal media (who shares most of Van's views) existed during WWII...we'd be speaking German

[jules]

as ive always said...if the liberal media (who shares most of Van's views) existed during WWII...we'd be speaking German
:clap: :clap: :clap:

[Dead Man Walkin]

Real torture makes me feel ashamed about our government, but I'd gladly be shameful if torturing terrorists got something done. But this shit, well, that's just saddening that any moron would consider any of that torture. The agents probably do that kind of crap just out of boredum.