Does this frighten anyone else?

[patbattlefield]

:icon_eek:

America meets the new superpower

The visit of President Hu to Washington underlines the inevitable loss of America's economic supremacy to China
By Clifford Coonan in Beijing
Published: 19 April 2006

When President Hu Jintao of China shakes hands with President George Bush in Washington tomorrow and gives one of his fixed grins for photographers, it will not be just another meeting between the leader of a large developing country and the chief executive of the richest nation on earth.

China is rising fast and is expected to eclipse the United States economically in the future - its gross domestic product is tipped to overtake that of America by 2045.

While Mr Bush has only given Mr Hu an hour of his time for a state lunch, the global balance of power is changing and in future meetings, the Chinese will set the timetable.

The rise of China is posing awkward questions for the US, along with the realisation that its days as the world's economic superpower are numbered.

Some analysts see America entering a period of "managed decline" not unlike that which Britain has experienced since the end of the Second World War and the end of empire.

Since the Chinese economy began to open up a quarter of a century ago, there are 400 million fewer desperately poor people in China. Now Beijing wants the remarkable domestic growth story to count for something in global terms. China has already overtaken Britain and France to become the world's fourth largest economy and Mr Hu's visit to Washington represents a culture clash on a global scale. China, the emerging Asian superpower, is ruled with an iron fist by the Communist Party, which has transformed a once centrally planned economy into a free market one, "socialist with Chinese characteristics".

What China repeatedly calls its "peaceful rise" represents a major challenge for the US economy, for its political position and for its role as global policeman.

China, with its endless supply of goods and its thirst for energy, has contributed more to global growth than America in recent years, and Beijing is well aware of this. Mr Hu's visit to America is about boosting China's prestige, earning respect for the world's fastest-growing major economy and matching some of that financial muscle with real political influence.

Japan remains the engine of the Asian economy but it is not registering anything like the double-digit growth rates that China is seeing every year. What makes the rise of China different from Japan's post-war emergence is that China can match its economic growth with a strong army. China is no defeated nation, struggling out of the ashes; instead it is a proud country which likes to remind others of its cultural achievements over thousands of years.

More than half of all industrial goods are made in its factories. The production and export of these goods, their prices kept low by Beijing's manipulation of the renminbi currency, has generated the cash behind China's growing economic power.

Mr Hu was all business at the start of his tour. Dinner at Bill Gates' house in Seattle, followed by a café latte with Howard Schultz, chairman of the Starbucks chain of coffee shops, then on to the Boeing plant, before moving to the east coast, with an itinerary that includes a speech at Mr Bush's alma mater, Yale.

But this opening has been undermined before Mr Hu even arrives. The Chinese leader is being given full military honours on arrival but Mr Hu's journey is not being labelled an official "state visit" as such, but something further down the chain.

Face matters in Asia, and some are reading this as a loss of face for Mr Hu. A dangerous move perhaps, given the shape of things to come. For the Bush administration, the key issue is a huge trade imbalance which is turning ever more political. Cheap Chinese exports are flooding the US market and costing American jobs.

And it is ideological too. China is not a democracy, its attitude on human rights leaves a lot to be desired and the Communist Party's treatment of organised religions angers the devoutly Christian Mr Bush. The feeling in Washington is that Beijing needs to do more to stave off the nuclear threat of North Korea and Iran, while China's courting of oil-rich, but politically suspect, countries in Africa and central Asia also rankles. A mixed bag of complaints, and the perceived absence of a clear line on China has angered some US lawmakers. The Senate Democratic leader, Harry Reid, said that Mr Bush "still has no coherent strategy for managing this nation's relationship with China".

The war in Iraq or Iran's nuclear ambitions are side issues compared with the question about China's "peaceful rise" and what to do when it decides to flex its muscles. Keen to keep the spin positive, senior Chinese foreign affairs officials said Mr Hu's visit would "provide an opportunity for Americans to better understand China's policy of seeking sustainable development and peaceful growth".

The trip will also introduce Mr Hu to the world. He remains a bit of a mystery three years into his leadership and little is known about his personal life, beyond the fact that he is frugal with money, likes ballroom dancing and has a photographic memory. When Mr Bush came to China in November, the two leaders reportedly spoke quite frankly to each other but relations could hardly be described as warm.

In the run-up to Mr Hu's visit, the Chinese released a number of key political prisoners; offered an olive branch to Taiwan, albeit one that Taipei cannot accept; signalled better relations with the Vatican and offered hope that the exiled Tibetan leader, the Dalai Lama, may visit China.


Rise of an eastern superpower

POPULATION

* 1.3 billion

ECONOMICS

* World's fastest growing economy

* Economy has grown 9.5 per cent annually for 25 years

* GDP quadrupled from 1980 to 2000

* 400 million people have been lifted out of poverty in 25 years

TRADE

* 30th largest US trading partner in 1977; now third

* World's second largest recipient of foreign direct investment

* US exports have grown five times faster than to rest of the world. US corporations have invested more than $50bn in China

* Worker earns 5-10 per cent of an American worker's wage

* 2004: Produced half of all digital cameras and 60 per cent of microwaves, photocopiers and DVD players in the world

POLLUTION

* Has 16 of the world's 20 most polluted cities

* Half of the population has polluted water supply

* Produces 3.7 billion tons of sewage a day

* World's largest consumer of coal; second only to US for oil

MILITARY

* 2005: China says it spent $30bn on its military, the Pentagon says $90bn was spent

* 2000: Estimated size is 2.5 million personnel; 10,000 tanks; 400 nuclear warheads

HEALTH

* 2003: UN estimates 840,000 have HIV

* 17 per cent of people live on less than a $1 a day

* One-third of the world's cigarettes are smoked in China

[FreeTheCricket]

Only would scare me if I didn't already know all about it. It's inevitable. China has a much larger resource base to pull from, they have a much larger workforce, and they are embracing new technologies and ideas that this country is either too scared or too stupid to realize the potential in.

The US couldn't stay the best forever. Every single "superpower" in the history of man has fallen, and somebody else has been there to take their place.

[patbattlefield]

Only would scare me if I didn't already know all about it. It's inevitable. China has a much larger resource base to pull from, they have a much larger workforce, and they are embracing new technologies and ideas that this country is either too scared or too stupid to realize the potential in.

The US couldn't stay the best forever. Every single "superpower" in the history of man has fallen, and somebody else has been there to take their place.
the most irritating part of it is we have the ability NOW to stop it from happening but our politics have followed the road of acient rome and we are doomed. while the germanic hordes(mexicans) divide our nation in two the corruption of the government weakens us from the inside. we are quickly losing our identity as a nation. these things take 10's if not 100's of years to take place but the USA is doomed if we dont get off our complacent asses.

[Lambo]

people thought rome would last forever, and look what happened

[FreeTheCricket]

the most irritating part of it is we have the ability NOW to stop it from happening but our politics have followed the road of acient rome and we are doomed. while the germanic hordes(mexicans) divide our nation in two the corruption of the government weakens us from the inside. we are quickly losing our identity as a nation. these things take 10's if not 100's of years to take place but the USA is doomed if we dont get off our complacent asses.

Not to mention our utterly pathetic "social programs" that will eventually lead to the downfall of our country when the workers cannot keep up with the crushing financial burden that the handouts will cause. Damn you, FDR, for ever coming up with those stupid things. You will be written about in history books as beginning the collapse of America.

[d0uche_n0zzle]

Zips in the wire, zips in the wire.

The only good Charlie, is a dead Charlie. We should have nuked them when we had the chance. Thanks Bill for giving them everything to keep us secure.

[ShooterMcGavin]

Maybe it's because we buy everything from them.

Plus there's the whole child slave sweatshop thing.

[abudabit]

Maybe it's because we buy everything from them.

Plus there's the whole child slave sweatshop thing.

Or maybe it's because it's a nation of 4 times as many people as us. I don't see how thier GDP surpassing ours is a threat to us. And sweat shops don't produce high GDP.

Good for China, the more success the world enjoys the better. It doesn't hurt our quality of life so why get bent out of shape about it?

[frankjg]

Communisim can only take you so far.. They will eventually hit a wall and either start to decline due to bad policy or be forced to change into a democracy either way its good.

[Ren5150]

THings look all rosy on paper but they are a nation that will revolt soon. All those poor, broke and sick Chinese will see how only the very top echelon will get rich but in America, everyone has a 55" TV, 3 cars and a house. They will want that and shit will start. Take any 1950's newspaper report on Russia and its much the same story. Now they strip for singles and pay the rent with bukake parties.

[Chino Kapone]

why should this scare us? we buy soooo much shit from china that they depend on us just as much as we do them. we would probably be the last country they would want to fuck with. it just means that we will be selling alot more of our country to the chineese.

[YourAmishDaddy]

Why is the standard answer these days to China "Well we buy so much stuff, they won't bother us.."

If our GDP lowers, if our standard of living is falling, if our wages, our entire economic status is in jeopardy..........we can't buy as much. China can just as soon sell to other markets, and their consumers are becoming more affluent.

Plus we're outsourcing our work to places like India. That means the people in India have that capital, they need to buy stuff.....Enter China.

That is why people need to take more notice of it. America is becoming the global equivalent of Lady Di. And refuses to admit why it's happening.

[ScarAss]

Zips in the wire, zips in the wire.

The only good Charlie, is a dead Charlie. We should have nuked them when we had the chance.

This is exactly what Douglas MacArthur is my greatest hero.

Let's be honest. The Chinese are preparing for World War War III. The United States is setting on it's ass. Except the war within 20 years. It'll be a defensive one.

[ShooterMcGavin]

Not the best drivers though...

Doesn't have anything to do with the thread. I'm just sayin.

[Yukon_1449]

why should this scare us? we buy soooo much shit from china that they depend on us just as much as we do them. we would probably be the last country they would want to fuck with. it just means that we will be selling alot more of our country to the chineese.

Are you insane? All they have to do is shut off the products and we are done. The only jobs we create anymore are service industry jobs, medical, etc. Nothing in blue collar areas. It is thinking like this that ended the Romans. We need to act now to preseve our way of life. The chinese have 3000+ front compaines for their inteligence agencies in the US. They now own the Panama Canal thanks to President Carter. They own a lage chunk of the Federal Reserve, which we are all responsible to pay back in our illegal from of monetary system. The framers tried to prevent this but socalists like FDR put us on this path. They are trying to buy all the oil compaines they can. Their planes, subs, and ships look like ours now, thanks to their spies and the handcuffs we put on ourselves to stop them. Our govt readily sells the security of this nation to other countries.

Western civiliztion is near its end. Look at the birth rates. 1.5 - 2.0 children per woman in the west, 6.0 to 8.0 in the other civiliztions. We are being bred out. Welfare programs are the beginning of the end, look at Rome. Learn from history, it always repeats. We need to regain our sense of a country, get control of our borders, get rid of our worthless politicians, and possibly change our govt, the way the framers of the constitution intended. Return back to indiviual rights, more power to the states, less to the Feds. Away from a 2 party stystem that does nothing but divide this country.

[Screwtape]

just goes to show what a government, that actually wants to have a strong economy, can accomplish. all they have to do is provide the 'other half' of the population with tv sets and digital cable and you dont have to worry about them revolting

[abudabit]

If our GDP lowers, if our standard of living is falling, if our wages, our entire economic status is in jeopardy..........we can't buy as much. China can just as soon sell to other markets, and their consumers are becoming more affluent.

Plus we're outsourcing our work to places like India. That means the people in India have that capital, they need to buy stuff.....Enter China.

That is why people need to take more notice of it. America is becoming the global equivalent of Lady Di. And refuses to admit why it's happening.

Dude, you are living in a fantasy world. Please point to any sign of a recession. Please. I dare you. Don't just make vague and paranoid predictions, point to actual evidence that our economy is receding. Seriously. Tell us why you think our economic situation is receding.

I would think that 3.5% adjusted GDP growth is a sign that we are growing, not receding. I would think that wages rising over inflation is a sign that we are growing. I would think that 4.7% unemployment is a sign that we are doing well. But perhaps you have a reason to think otherwise, so please point to it. Just give it to us.

[DreyfuswithAIDS]

China is enjoying its own Manifest Destiny, including spreading to Tibet and China's Muslum western areas.

[abudabit]

China is enjoying its own Manifest Destiny, including spreading to Tibet and China's Muslum western areas.

That was 55 years ago, a time when now touchy feely pussy europe still had colonies around the world. China's only recent conquest was some stolen land from Vietnam.

[THE FEZ MAN]

ive been watching the chinks for years. they are the new super power end of story

[YourAmishDaddy]

But perhaps you have a reason to think otherwise, so please point to it. Just give it to us.

2.3 million US manufacturing jobs have disappeared since the year 2000. Most not even lost to China. This is seen by many out in the workforce, and even more importantly we have foreign countries now manufacturing critical parts and systems in even the defense sector.

Our current account deficit is at 5% of GDP. This has never occured before in this nation's history. China, Japan, South Korea and Hong Kong each control and own over $696 billion in treasuries, about 46% of all outstanding stock of bonds as of last summer. China by itself holds over $290 billion in American outstanding debt.

What this means is we're buying at a record pace. With other peoples money. We now borrow from far too many countries willing to allow us to put it on the charge card. And like many who do, the statement has to come, and that's where the fun comes in.

The danger of this is when other more wealthy countries see us overextended to the point where the risk is too high to invest the flow on that end will stop. Likewise the effect will cause China to start meeting it's lack by cashing in the debts.

Before you say this can't happen, I can point out several examples where it has, in South America. Part of a lot of the financial turnarounds there, especially in places like Argentina came from their risky borrowing and overextension of their debt.

To it's credit the Bush administration has managed a major part of this shift remarkably. Private sector financials are near neutral and there's no catastrophic ripples of yet. The bond market is where I manage to get a better look at the financial status. It's a bigger, less volatile lagging indicator that's more true than the state of current employment numbers or certain stock segments. I will always give credit where it's due.

What will kill us though is our growing trade deficit. This coupled with the growing deficits will shake the stability I just mentioned.

So I point to the trade deficit. The massive amount of debts we're accumulating, then selling off. The fact that the dollar has been devalued nearly 45%. Energy costs that will continue to eat away at the low interests rates, and drive costs higher in several sectors. To that I say we have to develop and with wartime speed start marketing alternative energy. We will have to be able to solve more problems with less wars that are killing our financial status. Our entitlements and overgrown budgets.

We're simply running our nation unlike any of us are able to. We are spending way more than we're making. We are not saving. Our net saving position is 1-2% of nominal GDP. That's atrocious.

Put simply you're looking at the horsepower of our economic engine. Our unemployment rates, our growth, our consumption. All doing well.

I'm looking at the factors going into our economic engine. The literal fuel that produces that horsepower. That produces the wonderful GDP bottom line. If that mixture is off, much like a regular engine, it starts to stall. And with us raising debt ceilings, Our total federal outlays in entitlements and budgetary debt being about 70 trillion if we had to pay everything off right now, and our weekly debt snapshot or a tenth of that. the 8 trillion everybody talks about. If China starts to collect on those debts, and these other countries start to cut off our borrowing. We will be in a world of hurt.

[abudabit]

2.3 million US manufacturing jobs have disappeared since the year 2000. Most not even lost to China. This is seen by many out in the workforce, and even more importantly we have foreign countries now manufacturing critical parts and systems in even the defense sector.

2.3 million US manufacturing jobs lost, and we still have 4.7% unemployment. You'll forgive me if I really don't give a shit. We gain the jobs elsewhere, and despite what people assume our lower income average wages are still gaining over inflation (as well as our middle and upper income wages).

Our current account deficit is at 5% of GDP. This has never occured before in this nation's history. China, Japan, South Korea and Hong Kong each control and own over $696 billion in treasuries, about 46% of all outstanding stock of bonds as of last summer. China by itself holds over $290 billion in American outstanding debt.

And the 'interest' (although they are bonds so it isn't exactly interest) on the payments is part of the trade deficit. When you fret about the trade deficit and the foreign debt you are double dipping. Our debt and deficits are a heavy weight but our economy has so much float that despite being burdened by them WE ARE STILL GROWING.

What this means is we're buying at a record pace. With other peoples money. We now borrow from far too many countries willing to allow us to put it on the charge card. And like many who do, the statement has to come, and that's where the fun comes in.

No, we buy with our money which we purchased in exchange for debt - in this case a payment schedule (also called a bond). There is no charge card. A charge card is a metaphor for a loan which is different than a bond. And the statement has been coming for as long as we've been borrowing, and we've always payed it. That is the nature of bonds, and we are still A+ rated, and we have never defaulted or skipped payments as far as I know. The main fallacy people use when talking about our debt is in suggesting it is something other time than in the form of bonds. Non callable bonds, which I have to mention to you several times in this post.

The danger of this is when other more wealthy countries see us overextended to the point where the risk is too high to invest the flow on that end will stop. Likewise the effect will cause China to start meeting it's lack by cashing in the debts.

The debts aren't callable, and neither were the latin america debts. Argentina skipped on thier payments and then defaulted. Give me a break.

What will kill us though is our growing trade deficit. This coupled with the growing deficits will shake the stability I just mentioned.

So I point to the trade deficit.

And yet our GDP is growing, and the trade causing the deficit helps reduce inflation. The trade deficit is a relatively irrelevant issue that xenophobes and protectionists use as an excuse to rant against foreigners. They only pay attention to that number with out paying attention to the room it gives us for domestic growth and resistance against inflation.

The massive amount of debts we're accumulating, then selling off.

Unhealthy, true, but never been too heavy a burden and our economy is doing great under the weight. On top of which I would remind you that the majority of that debt is domestic.

The fact that the dollar has been devalued nearly 45%.

Big deal, it helps balance out a lot of economic factors.

Energy costs that will continue to eat away at the low interests rates, and drive costs higher in several sectors.

China and every other nation on earth has to deal with that too. How is that a USA specific thing?

We're simply running our nation unlike any of us are able to. We are spending way more than we're making. We are not saving. Our net saving position is 1-2% of nominal GDP. That's atrocious.

Throughout the history of borrowing people have been spending more than they make at the time. That is the principle of lending and even investment. The less we save the faster our economy grows, several economists won nobel prizes for thier research on this issue.

Put simply you're looking at the horsepower of our economic engine. Our unemployment rates, our growth, our consumption. All doing well.

Exactly. And if our debt and deficit were dragging us down, it has already been affecting our economic health. In other words, our rosy economy is AFTER the effect of the debt payments.


I'm looking at the factors going into our economic engine. The literal fuel that produces that horsepower. That produces the wonderful GDP bottom line. If that mixture is off, much like a regular engine, it starts to stall. And with us raising debt ceilings, Our total federal outlays in entitlements and budgetary debt being about 70 trillion if we had to pay everything off right now, and our weekly debt snapshot or a tenth of that. the 8 trillion everybody talks about. If China starts to collect on those debts, and these other countries start to cut off our borrowing. We will be in a world of hurt.

The debts aren't callable. :action-sm We are on payment schedule.

Basically you are pointing to individual issues, but even after the effect of these issues our economy is still GAINING. That is the point. If these issues were heavier a burden than the forces pushing our economy forward, we would be receding. But we aren't receding, we are growing. Both in employment, wages, and gdp. Those three items are the summary of all the factors adding to and subtracting from our economy, and those three items are improving. End of story.

[YourAmishDaddy]

All you said is fine. I'd love to be as hopeful. I'm merely realistic. You don't care about outsourcing and losing our manufacturing base. I do. I ask for balance. I want to maintain stability through not overextending ourselves and reduced spending. You believe in debt deficits and placing our economic destiny in other countries hands.

That's fine with me. I'd rather not whistle past the economic graveyard. I care more about America than the "global" community. Everything looks great while you're on top. And the only thing that keeps China from being in better shape today is their economy is actually growing too fast. We'll see what happens when they start to curtail their investing and start loosening the reigns on their workforce.

I am always cautious. I am thinking ahead. Not being paranoid. This is what being "conservative" actually means.

Which trumps the arrogance of thinking America is bulletproof and untouchable anyday. With a more than proosperous China and a Euro that is outpacing the dollar.

[Tommy Ceez]

I dont understand getting worked up over this...do you people honestly think that China's economy can continue to grow and yet remain communist?


One of two thing happen
Grow to a point where they have to abandon all vestages of communism, which would lead to humans rights gains

Or they hit a ceiling, and stagnate

Why does any of this affect us?

Or do you think thier master plan is to build thier economy to a point where they would then attack us and cut off all thier ability to continue to grow?

And this thought that there a huge military threat....they dont even have the capability to invade Tiawan, you think they're hitting the beaches of California?!?

[NJshawn]

Dude, you are living in a fantasy world. Please point to any sign of a recession. Please. I dare you. Don't just make vague and paranoid predictions, point to actual evidence that our economy is receding. Seriously. Tell us why you think our economic situation is receding.

I would think that 3.5% adjusted GDP growth is a sign that we are growing, not receding. I would think that wages rising over inflation is a sign that we are growing. I would think that 4.7% unemployment is a sign that we are doing well. But perhaps you have a reason to think otherwise, so please point to it. Just give it to us.

Are you serious? Just because we MAY be growing against OUR numbers does not mean a good economy. China's economy is growing double of what we are. The unemployment rate is not an indicator of how well an economyis doing. If someome works for google and gets laid off and has a job at McDonalds is that good? Unemployment numbers can be very misleading.

[abudabit]

Are you serious? Just because we MAY be growing against OUR numbers does not mean a good economy. China's economy is growing double of what we are. The unemployment rate is not an indicator of how well an economyis doing. If someome works for google and gets laid off and has a job at McDonalds is that good? Unemployment numbers can be very misleading.

NJShawn, you have to be joking. I specifically mentioned the unemployment rate and the rising wages together so that no one would make the dopey assumption that the new jobs are worse than the old ones.

DOES MCDONALDS PAY MORE THAN GOOGLE? Fucking shit I hate all of you. When wages rise at a faster rate than inflation, how the FUCKING HELL can you people go on to suggest that the new jobs are getting worse and worse? PLEASE FUCKING ANSWER THIS FUCKING QUESTION.

The fact that wages are rising, unemployment is low, and GDP is growing all faster than inflation IS THE FUCKING DEFINITION OF A GOOD ECONOMY. Jesus fucking christ it's depressing reading this thread. Just a bunch of xenophobia, fear mongering, and complete ignorance of our key economic state.

Yes - foreigners are doing well. GET THE FUCK OVER IT.

And if you guys knew anything about economics you would fucking realize that the lower you are on the aggregate supply curve the faster you can grow with out risking inflation - that is why China can afford to grow at 10-20%. We are maxed out - if we grow at even 5% we will experience huge inflation. Why the fuck do you think we raise interest rates anytime GDP growth passes a point? Do you guys pay any fucking attention what the fucking experts are doing and saying or are Michael Moore and Pat Buchanan all you desire in your economic policy?

PLEASE FUCKING TELL ME HOW THE QUALITY OF WORK IS GOING DOWN IF WAGES ARE GOING UP. If you can't, GO BACK TO MAKING SHWOOGIE JOKES.

Which trumps the arrogance of thinking America is bulletproof and untouchable anyday. With a more than proosperous China and a Euro that is outpacing the dollar.

I don't think America is bullet proof, I just don't think America is getting hit with bullets. The pillars of our economy are not just great, they are growing. Our economy has ALWAYS been in the hands of foreign nations. When the great depression happened, it happened all over the world. Centuries ago when cotton was running low because of the American civil war, there was panic around the western world. There has never been a time when economies weren't interdependant. The most closed off, anti-trade, xenophobic nation on earth - North Korea - is dependant on other nations. What does that tell you?

And the Euro gaining over the Dollar? Are you kidding me? All they have to do is print Euros at a low rate or fuck around with thier bank interest rates and the Euro will gain vs. the dollar. That isn't a sign of ANYTHING. Europe has 8-16% unemployment and stalled GDP growth. And China, look up aggregate supply curves and then come back and tell us how they will over take us.

And in the end, what is so scary about foreigners doing well? Good for them.

[abudabit]

http://www.bls.gov/news.release/ichcc.t03.htm

CPI Adjusted Ownage, care to explain it NJShawn? Do ya?
ftp://ftp.bls.gov/pub/suppl/eci.ecconst.txt

ivilian workers(1):

1981................................. - 92.0 91.7 92.7 - - -0.3 1.0 - - - -
1982................................. 93.8 92.4 93.7 95.1 1.2 -1.5 1.4 1.5 - 0.4 2.1 2.6
1983................................. 96.3 95.9 96.4 96.9 1.3 -.4 .5 .6 2.7 3.8 2.9 1.9
1984................................. 97.4 97.1 97.2 98.1 .5 -.3 .1 .9 1.1 1.2 .8 1.2
1985................................. 98.3 97.9 98.8 98.6 .3 -.4 .9 -.2 1.0 .9 1.7 .5

1986................................. 100.0 100.1 100.6 101.0 1.5 .0 .5 .4 1.7 2.2 1.8 2.4
1987................................. 100.4 99.8 99.6 100.1 -.6 -.6 -.2 .5 .4 -.2 -1.0 -.8
1988................................. 100.6 100.3 100.2 100.6 .4 -.2 -.2 .4 .1 .5 .6 .5
1989................................. 100.4 100.0 100.9 101.0 -.3 -.4 .9 .1 -.2 -.3 .7 .4
1990................................. 100.6 100.7 100.0 99.8 -.4 .1 -.7 -.2 .2 .7 -.9 -1.2

1991................................. 100.3 100.6 100.9 101.0 .5 .3 .3 .1 -.3 -.1 .9 1.2
1992................................. 101.1 101.1 101.4 101.5 .1 .0 .3 .2 .8 .5 .5 .6
1993................................. 101.5 101.7 102.2 102.3 .0 .1 .5 .1 .4 .6 .8 .8
1994................................. 102.3 102.4 102.4 102.6 .0 .1 .0 .2 .7 .7 .2 .3
1995................................. 102.3 102.2 102.6 102.8 -.3 -.1 .3 .3 .0 -.2 .1 .2

1996................................. 102.3 102.3 102.4 102.4 -.6 .1 .1 .0 .0 .1 -.2 -.4
1997................................. 102.4 102.8 103.2 104.0 .0 .4 .4 .8 .1 .5 .8 1.6
1998................................. 104.3 104.6 105.4 105.9 .3 .3 .8 .4 1.9 1.8 2.1 1.8
1999................................. 105.6 105.9 105.9 106.6 -.2 .3 .0 .7 1.3 1.2 .5 .7
2000................................. 106.2 106.5 106.8 107.4 -.4 .3 .3 .6 .6 .6 .8 .7

2001................................. 107.4 107.2 108.3 110.1 .0 -.2 1.0 1.7 1.1 .6 1.4 2.5
2002................................. 109.9 110.3 110.6 111.3 -.2 .3 .3 .6 2.4 2.9 2.1 1.0
2003................................. 110.8 112.0 112.3 113.4 -.4 1.1 .3 1.0 .8 1.5 1.5 1.9
2004................................. 113.0 112.7 113.6 113.9 -.3 -.3 .9 .2 2.0 .6 1.2 .5
2005................................. 113.4 113.4 111.9 113.6 -.5 .0 -1.3 1.5 .3

CPI Adjusted Wage/Salary Indexes - all civilian employees. 1989 is the anchor in these tables. In other words, 113.4 means that wages increased 13% over inflation since 1989. You will notice not one year where wages decreased vs. inflation.

Wanna give me some come back about the richest people scewing the chart? Go to the link and look at the blue collar, service, etc. tables They are on the rise as well. Not to mention that owners / ceo's don't get included in these charts.

I'll keep on looking for the chart which is divided by lower / middle / upper income demographics, those were what I was really looking for but the BLS is fucking tough to navigate (as are all govt sites).

[YourAmishDaddy]

Hmm...


Might I suggest...

http://www.homegrocer.com/images/products/midol%20men%20complete.gif:action-sm