dwi question

[JonBenetRamsey]

my friend got arrested a few weeks ago for a dwi. he passed the physical, but did not do the breathalyzer at the site. he was then arrested and did it at the station where he blew a .13 or .12 one of the two. aren't you supposed to take the brethalyzer at the site you are pulled over? this happened in nj since laws are different all around this grand country.

[Ballbuster1]

Nope. He's fucked.

[roche]

Nope. He's fucked.

Yep. Always refuse it and then call a lawyer. Make them prove it in a court of law.

[The Hole]

Did they throw a document in front of him and then tell him to sign it?

[JonBenetRamsey]

Did they throw a document in front of him and then tell him to sign it?
that i do not know. he never mentioned that.

[GLENN_THE_TOOL]

he's probably gonna lose his license for six months and probably get fined too. hope he invests in a bus pass or has very gracious family and/or friends willing to drive him everywhere.

[Fruit Monkey]

oh yea not to mention his new price for car insurance ! ouch that'll hurt too

[d0uche_n0zzle]

Hope he has a decent mountain bike.

[click]

my friend got arrested a few weeks ago for a dwi. he passed the physical, but did not do the breathalyzer at the site. he was then arrested and did it at the station where he blew a .13 or .12 one of the two. aren't you supposed to take the brethalyzer at the site you are pulled over? this happened in nj since laws are different all around this grand country.
It's the exact opposite really. The only breathalyzer test that can be used is at the station.

[JonBenetRamsey]

It's the exact opposite really. The only breathalyzer test that can be used is at the station.
but if you pass the physical tests and are not offered the breathalyzer, why would you be arrested?

[Arch Stanton]

Start off.....$10,000 problem at least. Your Aquaintance blew .12 WAY after his last drink. In this day and age not calling a cab, total asshole.

[CM Mark]

Short answer, your friend is fucked.




Long answer, your friend is EXTREMELY fucked

[JonBenetRamsey]

Short answer, your friend is fucked.




Long answer, your friend is EXTREMELY fucked
well that stinks and i don't like it. but his lawyer did get his sister's boyfriend off a few dwi's. money isn't a major issues since he works as some sort of chemist shit nerd guy now.

[Glenn Dandy]

Lawyers cant get you off anymore.

Its cut n dry under .1 3-4 months suspension Over . 1 - 6 months.

few things you can try are:

say your diabetic, Diabetics put off and alcohol smell although havnt drank. Actual alcohol has no smell, its the sugars and flavoring your smellin on a drunk.

Secondly if you are lucky enough to have an FOP card or a friend on the force.. when the cop asks if youve been drinking say NNNNO! because this day n age not only is the cop car filming you,,, the officer is miced as well, so once you admit to driniking theres not much a friend can do, nor the officer if he thinks mayby your ok,

thirdly, this use to work completly, but i havnt been pulled over in years... i use to let all the air out of my lungs, like if you were trying to sink in a pool. and as the cop gives you the tube,,, you breath in a huge gasp of fresh air and blow it back out as fast as p[ossible. It should atleast still decrease your level..

yeah i been drinkin beers a long time eh.

If none of that works tell the cop his sisters a whore and take your beating like a good drunken asshat!

[Lambo]

tell the cop his sisters a whore and take your beating like a good drunken asshat!
thats what I always do!

[Shaggz]

oh yea not to mention his new price for car insurance ! ouch that'll hurt too
A buddy of mine has a few DUI's against him. His parents pay his insurance so its cheap. But for a goof we looked up a quote for insurance if he were to get it in his name, and with the DUI's and other various violations, it was about $800 every month.

Cops aren't being too kind to drunk drivers anymore. Your buddy isn't getting away from this one.

[JonBenetRamsey]

Cops aren't being too kind to drunk drivers anymore. Your buddy isn't getting away from this one.
yea i figured so. the max he can get is 7 months plus fins, minimum since he has a clean record is 1-3 months.

[click]

but if you pass the physical tests and are not offered the breathalyzer, why would you be arrested?
passing a standard roadside sobriety test don't mean crap in court. they only care about the numbers.

[roche]

passing a standard roadside sobriety test don't mean crap in court. they only care about the numbers.

I am not sure how the law works up there, but in Texas, if they say you need to blow in the tube, and you refuse, you go to jail. If you know you are drunk, ALWAYS refuse. Blowing in the tube is basically everything they need to convict you. If you refuse, then all they have is video evidence.

[GLENN_THE_TOOL]

there's little that can help him. they're uber-strict in Jersey when it comes to DWI. my father got a DWI a few years back. he and some coworkers had a few drinks after work and he drove home, but he felt way too tired (he worked boths days and nights) and having a few drinks didn't help either, but he had enough sense to pull over and try to sleep it off, which is what they tell you to do in driver's ed - PULL OVER if you don't feel like you can drive much longer. well a passerby saw him snoozing in the car and called the cops, thinking he had a heart attack. the cops come, check him out, give him a breathalizer, and arrest him. he never got a DWI before, and even though he showed enough discretion to pull over, they slapped him with a six-month suspension and fines. they're assholes when it comes to shit like this around here.

[Glenn Dandy]

there's little that can help him. they're uber-strict in Jersey when it comes to DWI. my father got a DWI a few years back. he and some coworkers had a few drinks after work and he drove home, but he felt way too tired (he worked boths days and nights) and having a few drinks didn't help either, but he had enough sense to pull over and try to sleep it off, which is what they tell you to do in driver's ed - PULL OVER if you don't feel like you can drive much longer. well a passerby saw him snoozing in the car and called the cops, thinking he had a heart attack. the cops come, check him out, give him a breathalizer, and arrest him. he never got a DWI before, and even though he showed enough discretion to pull over, they slapped him with a six-month suspension and fines. they're assholes when it comes to shit like this around here.
Assholes is the correct word.......They just want #'s they dont give a shit about people or their lives their destroying. Some people can drink 6 beers with no affect,,, but that right has been taken away.. because as usual in America someones telling me yet again i cant do something.

[BCH]

Some people can drink 6 beers with no affect.


I'm betting you fall into the above catagory sir? :action-sm

[HummerTuesdays]

Assholes is the correct word.......They just want #'s they dont give a shit about people or their lives their destroying. Some people can drink 6 beers with no affect,,, but that right has been taken away.. because as usual in America someones telling me yet again i cant do something.

Fuck that. Tell that to the family that had their life destroyed because I guy downed a 6 pack, did *think* it effected him, and he plowed into their car. If you want to drink that heavily, stay home, call a cab, or get a dd.

[Hudson]

well I know that they lowered the dwi level to like .08 in NJ and the cops are really pinned on enforcing it. So your friend is pretty much going to have to get a NJ transit pass.
That and he can kiss his car goodbye..I think thay have a seizure law for dwi as well

[Harvey_Birdman]

He should immediately contact a local attorney. The laws for DAI (while now generally standardized as to BAC level) have different penalties in every juridiction.

In PA, for example, your friend might qualify for the ARD program which would be 30 days license suspension, 6 months probation and about $1,000.00 in fines. I believe NJ has a similar program.

Yep. Always refuse it and then call a lawyer.

Refusing the BAC test might actually increase his license suspension to one year automatically. Yes, the Commonwealth would have a harder time proving the case in Court with such evidence, but the license suspension would apply regardless. This is the law in many jurisdictions, so talk to an attorney before you go out drinking.

http://print.dui.findlaw.com/dui/dui_overview/dui_penalties.html
Gives a good overview of state by state DAI penalties.

That and he can kiss his car goodbye..I think thay have a seizure law for dwi as well

To my knowledge NJ does not have an automobile confiscation program for DAI.

[flyerfan116]

find a good lawyer...a friend of my got arrested blew like a .14 or something & her lawyer found that there is some kind of trial going on regarding the reliability of the breathalyzer they used (we are both in NJ) so the judge agreed to accept a no contest and suspended sentence pending the outcome of this case ( i think its going to the nj supreme court this summer) so it could help out or at least buy him some time.

[ChrisC_EIT]

my friend got arrested a few weeks ago for a dwi. he passed the physical, but did not do the breathalyzer at the site. he was then arrested and did it at the station where he blew a .13 or .12 one of the two. aren't you supposed to take the brethalyzer at the site you are pulled over? this happened in nj since laws are different all around this grand country.

Good Luck Bro.

[Harvey_Birdman]

Fuck that. Tell that to the family that had their life destroyed because I guy downed a 6 pack, did *think* it effected him, and he plowed into their car. If you want to drink that heavily, stay home, call a cab, or get a dd.

An emotional story to be sure, but I think Glenn Dandy's point still has merit. Many of the new DAI laws have no connection with attempts to curtail drunk driving, but are rather methods through which the government can raise money.

The national lowering of the BAC level to .08 is a great example. It's not going to save any lives but it will raise revenue as the government can now stick it to people who wouldn't have normally been thought of as drunk.

The PA law is especially egregious, and is now being challenged on constitutional grounds with a legitimate chance of success. In PA it no longer matters if your BAC was .08 or higher at the time of driving. You could have a BAC of .05 or even .00 while driving and still be convicted if your BAC level within two hours of driving is .08 or higher.

This is because BAC levels rise over time. Assume you had some beers at a bar and decide to drive home. At the time you left the bar your BAC level was .04, but due to your body's metabolism it continues to rise throughout the night even though you stop drinking.

You get stopped at a vehicle checkpoint two miles from your house. Your BAC at that time is .05. The officer smells alcohol on you and sends you downtown for a breath test.

The test is conducted 90 minutes after your last incident of driving, and you have a BAC level of .08. You are presumed intoxicated and the fact that your BAC level may have risen in the last hour and a half is not a defense.

This is why many DUI laws should often be referred to as DAI, driving after imbibing, because it no longer makes any difference if you were actually driving while you were drunk.

[ih8Uboo-boo]

there's little that can help him. they're uber-strict in Jersey when it comes to DWI. my father got a DWI a few years back. he and some coworkers had a few drinks after work and he drove home, but he felt way too tired (he worked boths days and nights) and having a few drinks didn't help either, but he had enough sense to pull over and try to sleep it off, which is what they tell you to do in driver's ed - PULL OVER if you don't feel like you can drive much longer. well a passerby saw him snoozing in the car and called the cops, thinking he had a heart attack. the cops come, check him out, give him a breathalizer, and arrest him. he never got a DWI before, and even though he showed enough discretion to pull over, they slapped him with a six-month suspension and fines. they're assholes when it comes to shit like this around here.

Yeah that's fucked up...

I'm in PA and I was told that if you are drunk and sleeping in your car, take your keys and throw them somewhere in the back seat, because if they are in the ignition, or on your body they can nail you on "intent"...

[lawjockey]

i don't know how it is in other states, but in CT at least, if you refuse the breath test, that acts as an automatic presumption of guilt. Once they get you to the station, they have two hours from the time they stopped you to administer the test. If you refuse to take the test, good fucking luck.

A good friend of mine only had three beers, was in no way drunk and got pulled over because he was reaching for a cord that feel on the passanger's seat. he passed the physical, was taken to the station, asked for an attorney, they didn't let him get one, refused the test, and got charged. It was a really shady situation where the cop "lost" the in-dash recording of him passing the tests...when he went to court (depsite having a really good DWI lawyer) they told him that he refused the test, tough shit, guilty. He had his lic suspended for 6 months.

In short, better hope your friend has a lot of friends that don't mind giving him a ride.

[Harvey_Birdman]

I'm in PA and I was told that if you are drunk and sleeping in your car, take your keys and throw them somewhere in the back seat, because if they are in the ignition, or on your body they can nail you on "intent"...

Not intent, but the question is whether you are in actual physical control of the vehicle. If you throw your keys on the backseat you can make the argument that you weren't in control of the vehicle, and as such the Commonwealth cannot establish that element of the case.

The elements of DAI in PA are:
1. BAC above proscribed level or otherwise impaired within two hours of
2. Actual physical control
3. of a vehicle
4. on a highway or trafficway

See Banner v. Commonwealth, 737 A.2d 1203, in which a cop discovered the defendant in a reclined position in the passenger's seat of the car parked alongside the roadway. The keys were in the ignition but the engine was not running and the lights were not illuminated. The PA Supreme Court held that these facts were not enough to establish actual physical control.

[ih8Uboo-boo]

Not intent, but the question is whether you are in actual physical control of the vehicle. If you throw your keys on the backseat you can make the argument that you weren't in control of the vehicle, and as such the Commonwealth cannot establish that element of the case.

The elements of DAI in PA are:
1. BAC above proscribed level or otherwise impaired within two hours of
2. Actual physical control
3. of a vehicle
4. on a highway or trafficway

See Banner v. Commonwealth, 737 A.2d 1203, in which a cop discovered the defendant in a reclined position in the passenger's seat of the car parked alongside the roadway. The keys were in the ignition but the engine was not running and the lights were not illuminated. The PA Supreme Court held that these facts were not enough to establish actual physical control.

Cool... It helps to be an educated drunk...

[thegreatgazoo]

[QUOTE=roche]Yep. Always refuse it and then call a lawyer. Make them prove it in a court of law.[/QUOTE


If you refuse then it's an automatic suspension of your licence (6-12 months).

[thegreatgazoo]

Not intent, but the question is whether you are in actual physical control of the vehicle. If you throw your keys on the backseat you can make the argument that you weren't in control of the vehicle, and as such the Commonwealth cannot establish that element of the case.

The elements of DAI in PA are:
1. BAC above proscribed level or otherwise impaired within two hours of
2. Actual physical control
3. of a vehicle
4. on a highway or trafficway

See Banner v. Commonwealth, 737 A.2d 1203, in which a cop discovered the defendant in a reclined position in the passenger's seat of the car parked alongside the roadway. The keys were in the ignition but the engine was not running and the lights were not illuminated. The PA Supreme Court held that these facts were not enough to establish actual physical control.


Good old Pa!!

[Torlough]

To bad the idiot doesn't live in NYC they would take his car. Isn't it manditory jail time of 48 hours for DWI. I certainly hope so and hope your friend meets a bunk buddy serving.

he deserves evey fine and penelty he gets.

[LZMF1]

i may be wrong but if you refuse the breathalyzer it's considered admission of guilt in a court of law.


as i said i may be wrong

[thegreatgazoo]

i may be wrong but if you refuse the breathalyzer it's considered admission of guilt in a court of law.


as i said i may be wrong

It's not an admission of guilt but since it makes proving their case alot more difficult they came up with sort of a little incentive and that is if you refuse, automatic suspension of your license, no questions asked.

[RobeSoup&Tears]

Quick…have him change him last name to Kennedy.

You gotta admit some post here are brutal but I like seeing the ones where Baggers are looking out for each other.

[HummerTuesdays]

Quick…have him change him last name to Kennedy.

You gotta admit some post here are brutal but I like seeing the ones where Baggers are looking out for each other.

Brutal? Whatever. I do look out for my friends. It's called being a designated driver. This way we don't have to go to the message boards looking for advice on how to avoid the punishment for the crime we committed.

[Harvey_Birdman]

i may be wrong but if you refuse the breathalyzer it's considered admission of guilt in a court of law.

While not generally considered an admission of guilt it can still play a role. Most Judges will give the Jury instructions as to what it can mean in the deliberations. For example, the Model Criminal Jury Instruction for DAI contains the following:

" (3) There was evidence that the defendant was asked for and refused to give a sample of her breath for testing. A ‘person’ can express ‘refusal’ in words, or he or she can demonstrate ‘refusal’ by uncooperative conduct.
A person’s refusal to give a sample of breath for testing does not lead to any automatic presumption. But a defendant’s refusal may be considered by a jury, along with all other relevant factors, when deciding whether the defendant is guilty of driving under the influence.
Thus, you should consider everything said and done by the police and the defendant, and all the surrounding circumstances, at the time of the alleged refusal when determining whether the defendant did in fact refuse and the significance of her refusal. If you believe that the defendant refused to give a sample, ask yourselves: Does the evidence indicate why she refused? Can any inference be drawn—favorable or unfavorable to the defendant—from her refusal?"

This, along with all other instructions, would be read to the Jury at the close of all argument.

[Harvey_Birdman]

To bad the idiot doesn't live in NYC they would take his car. Isn't it manditory jail time of 48 hours for DWI. I certainly hope so and hope your friend meets a bunk buddy serving.

he deserves evey fine and penelty he gets.

Dear fucking Christ I hope you never serve on a jury.

EDIT: Your sig pic is really hot though.

[The Sarge]

Here's a suggestion.

Don't drive drunk.

That should help.

[RobeSoup&Tears]

Brutal? Whatever. I do look out for my friends. It's called being a designated driver. This way we don't have to go to the message boards looking for advice on how to avoid the punishment for the crime we committed.

HT I agree 100%...You don't go to Wackbag for Legal advise and a D.H. behind the wheel is the right move.

My point is that this guy is probably looking for some reasonable move now that his pal has shit the bed and most posts are cut and dry in his face.
i.e. 'Your Friend Is Fucked.'

We eat our own in here but still try and look out is what I'm saying.
:icon_wink

[Harvey_Birdman]

Here's a suggestion.

Don't drive drunk.

That should help.

Not necessarily, as I described above the new laws in many jurisdictions could enable a conviction even if the person never drove drunk.

[The Sarge]

Not necessarily, as I described above the new laws in many jurisdictions could enable a conviction even if the person never drove drunk.

\
Harvey....you are a delight.

I love your show.

[DeltaPin]

I've always heard that if you burp prior to being administered the test that they have to wait a certain period of time before they can try again or the results are inadmissible. Is this true or just bullshit?

Anyway always better not to press your luck. Cab ride or d.d. is a hell of a lot cheaper than suspension, fines, & insurance hikes.

[Harvey_Birdman]

I've always heard that if you burp prior to being administered the test that they have to wait a certain period of time before they can try again or the results are inadmissible. Is this true or just bullshit?



In PA, tests with Breath BAC machines must be performed by certified operators and must adhere to certain requirements. Among them -

"67 Pa.Code § 77.24. Breath test procedures.
(a) Observation. The person to be tested with breath test equipment shall be kept under observation by a police officer or certified breath test operator for at least 20 consecutive minutes immediately prior to administration of the first alcohol breath test given to the person, during which time the person may not have ingested alcoholic beverages or other fluids, regurgitated, vomited, eaten or smoked. Custody of the person may be transferred to another officer or certified breath test operator during the 20 consecutive minutes or longer period as long as the person to be tested is under observation for at least 20 consecutive minutes prior to initial administration of the alcohol breath test."

This rule is similar to the instructions for operators of most breath machines. For example, the Intoxilyzer 5000 requires "that a test subject be observed for at least 20 minutes prior to performing a breath test. During that observation period, the subject may not smoke, drink, eat or introduce any substance into the mouth. Furthermore, if the subject regurgitates, the breath test should not be performed for at least 20 minutes afterward." - Pennsylvania Driving Under the Influence Vol. 10, page 730.

Of course, some other jurisdiction may have different rules regarding the operation of breath-testing equipment. It is best to consult a local attorney if you have a specific question.

[robinquivers]

I love these threads. Weighing in from the law enforcement side of this I have some observations. Even if the that guys friend "passed" the FST, there were probably other observations the officer had that convinced him that the driver was impaired. The operation of the vehicle, his speech, how long it took him to find his license, how he got out of the car etc. A well written report and officer's testimony can sink someone without a breath test. Not to mention the use of videotapes in cruisers today. Most departments, including mine have them. My advice, dont drink and drive, plain and simple. But if you do, keep your license and registration on your visor so you dont have to search for it. Dont say a word, refuse the field sobriety tests and the breath test. Even though that may mean a loss of license, it will give your defense attorney more to work with and less for the police to use as evidence. But please dont drink and drive.

[Joey Bond]

Yep. Always refuse it and then call a lawyer. Make them prove it in a court of law.

In Connecticut if you refuse to take the test your license gets suspended automatically for 6 months

[kid afrika]

In Connecticut if you refuse to take the test your license gets suspended automatically for 6 months
Refusing to provide samples of your breath is a separate offense (N.J.S.A.39:4-50.4a) that subjects you to penalties as follows:

1ST OFFENSE: 7-month to 1-year loss of license, $300.00 - $500.00 fine, $1,000.00 yearly surcharge for three years, and referral to the Intoxicated Driver's Resource Center.

2ND OFFENSE: 2 years loss of license, $500.00 to $1,000.00 fine, $1,000.00 yearly surcharge for three years, and referral to the Intoxicated Driver's Resource Center.

3RD OFFENSE: 10 years loss of license, $1,000.00 fine, $1,000.00 yearly surcharge for three years (unless there is a prior conviction within three years in which case, the surcharge is $1,500.00 per year) and referral to the Intoxicated Driver's Resource Center.

OTHER FINES & COSTS: $200.00 DWI Enforcement Fund, $50.00 Violent Crime Compensation Board Fund, $75.00 Safe Neighborhood Fund, 200.00 NJ MVC Restoration Charge(s), $150.00 Intoxicated Driver Resource Center (IDRC) Fee(s) (Additional fees for out-patient counseling as referred by the IDRC), and up to $33.00 in Court Costs. Insurance can be canceled forcing coverage through he assigned-risk plan – increasing rates for about three years.

The penalties are in addition to and consecutive to any penalties imposed for the underlying drunk driving offense. And, a prior DWI conviction in New Jersey or in another State counts as a prior for the Refusal Law(s). This means that if you have a prior DWI or Refusal conviction, it will count to enhance your sentencing exposure.

Looks to me that the penalty for refusal is the same as the penalty for conviction of .10% or higher.

Don't be an idiot. Don't drink and drive.

There's no good that can come of it and way too many innocent people die every year from drunk driving accidents.

Not to mention, it's fucking expensive if you get caught and convicted.

[cknight725]

Yep. Always refuse it and then call a lawyer. Make them prove it in a court of law.

Yep -- if he passed the field and then submitted to a breathalizer back at the station, the sunofabitch HAD to be drunk.

If you know you're drunk, you NEVER take the breathalyzer -- its the hard and fast evidence that makes a court appearance very, very short. It usually goes something like <SMACK> "Follow these nice gentlemen to your new room and your new high-visibility pajamas."

With the breathalizer results, he doesn't have a leg to stand on. The legal arguments based on the reliability of Breathalyzers are weak at best, especially when he blew a .14 ...

[kid afrika]

Yep -- if he passed the field and then submitted to a breathalizer back at the station, the sunofabitch HAD to be drunk.

If you know you're drunk, you NEVER take the breathalyzer -- its the hard and fast evidence that makes a court appearance very, very short. It usually goes something like <SMACK> "Follow these nice gentlemen to your new room and your new high-visibility pajamas."

With the breathalizer results, he doesn't have a leg to stand on. The legal arguments based on the reliability of Breathalyzers are weak at best, especially when he blew a .14 ...
I know my post was long, but the gist of it was that if you refuse to take a breathalyzer the penalty is the same (in NJ) as if you blew over .10.

One site I was reading also said that the breathalyzer was not concrete evidence of guilt.

Also, there are no plea bargains in NJ. You get the penalty for the offense that you were convicted of. No ifs ands or buts.

[Harvey_Birdman]

If you know you're drunk, you NEVER take the breathalyzer -- its the hard and fast evidence that makes a court appearance very, very short. It usually goes something like <SMACK> "Follow these nice gentlemen to your new room and your new high-visibility pajamas."


You should really think that one through. As counterintuitive as it might seem, in some cases it makes more sense to submit to the BAC test.

Assuming no prior convictions, in PA, a refusal automatically suspends your license for one year (regardless of eventual conviction or not). It generally prohibits you from entering ARD (a probation like program). It also means you will be charged at the highest level of intoxication and will face 72 Hours Minimum imprisonment and up to $5,000.00 in fines.

If you had consented to the BAC test and blew a .08-.10 you could enter the ARD program, which would have no license suspension, 6 months probation and about $1,000.00 in fines. If you complete the probation program the charges can actually be expunged from your criminal history, it would be like it never happened (except for future DAI purposes).

While it sometimes makes sense to refuse BAC tests, you should at least get an accurate understanding of what potential penalties you face before you make that decision. I advise you all to consult with a local attorney, whether you think you're likely to DAI or not, and determine in advance what would be in your best interests.

With the breathalizer results, he doesn't have a leg to stand on. The legal arguments based on the reliability of Breathalyzers are weak at best, especially when he blew a .14 ...

Not at all true. While BAC testing is a fairly consistent science, it is important to remember that it's still based on a human being's ability to administer the test. I have personally had clients beat charges because the test operator is some Criminal Justice washout who couldn't follow the Intoxilyzer 5000 instructions if they were beaten into his puny head with Jessica Alba's genitals.

Machines rarely fuck up, but people do all the time.

[roche]

You should really think that one through. As counterintuitive as it might seem, in some cases it makes more sense to submit to the BAC test.

Assuming no prior convictions, in PA, a refusal automatically suspends your license for one year (regardless of eventual conviction or not). It generally prohibits you from entering ARD (a probation like program). It also means you will be charged at the highest level of intoxication and will face 72 Hours Minimum imprisonment and up to $5,000.00 in fines.

If you had consented to the BAC test and blew a .08-.10 you could enter the ARD program, which would have no license suspension, 6 months probation and about $1,000.00 in fines. If you complete the probation program the charges can actually be expunged from your criminal history, it would be like it never happened (except for future DAI purposes).

While it sometimes makes sense to refuse BAC tests, you should at least get an accurate understanding of what potential penalties you face before you make that decision. I advise you all to consult with a local attorney, whether you think you're likely to DAI or not, and determine in advance what would be in your best interests.



Not at all true. While BAC testing is a fairly consistent science, it is important to remember that it's still based on a human being's ability to administer the test. I have personally had clients beat charges because the test operator is some Criminal Justice washout who couldn't follow the Intoxilyzer 5000 instructions if they were beaten into his puny head with Jessica Alba's genitals.

Machines rarely fuck up, but people do all the time.

Remember, that depends on which state you are in. Every state has their own laws.

[Harvey_Birdman]

However, having said that you should always refuse to do FST's (Field Sobreity Tests) or PBT's (Preliminary Breath Tests) in the field using a handheld breath-tester.

These tests are not mandatory, and you will not incur additional license suspensions or criminal penalties for their refusal.

[Glenn Dandy]

I recently had experienced a learning event in a club i am in.. An officer came to us looking for money to buy these" drunk goggles" for the kids, for their school interventioning system.
Of course i volunteered to be the guinie pig.. these thing are nuts!! you realy get a feel from a sober standpoint of what alcohol does to your abilitys.

I have been drinking along time.. I never felt like these goggles, not after slammin a keg!

Their cool for the kids though, so we bought the cops a bunch.

Stats , Stats.... C,mon holidays,,,weekends,,,summertime,,,,This is when the accidents happen. As I like to call them novice drinkers are about!

I will not be on the roads on 4th, new years,day before TG day... Known novice holiday fatalitys. Look My point although not popular. Some people are smart enough to equate when they have personaly had enough.

I have been partying and drinking 21 years, no accidents, not a ding, been pulled over roughly 18 times n let go. LEGALY DRUNK...Some people can just handle their shit.

Someone who gets drunk may not get this, but there are people in the world that alcohol doesnt affect that much.

I am the first one to watchdog for some asshat that shouldnt be driving..Ive been in brawls over it.... and in my presence aint gonna happen.

My buddy Bill recently got a DWI.. he is head of NJ turnpike vehicle garage... The guy wasnt drunk at .1... Ive known him 30 years...He was fine... Now his life is destroyed... So before you jump on the band wagon about the family that died because some retard who hadnt a brain in his head fucked up.. Realize real people, who arent endangering anyone are suffering too.

2 kids a wife and a mortgage.. now no job. And before you wave the he shouldnt of drank banner.... We are just learning.. us old guys even if your ok,,, youll get busted.

Numbers right birdman.

[Harvey_Birdman]

Remember, that depends on which state you are in. Every state has their own laws.

Absolutely correct, as I said, everyone should contact a local attorney to get the lowdown on their jurisdiction's rules and penalties.

[THE FEZ MAN]

another reason for lowering the BAC is to get more otherwise lawfull citizens into the judical system so that they can be followed and refused for certan things that you can not receve if you have ever been convicted of any crime. ive talked to cops about this, and if you are drunk and seem to pass the field test. always refuse blood and breath. its better to serve a 6month suspension for refusal then them having hard proof that you are drunk, all you need to do is prove reasonal doubt, and you are with in your rites to refuse an unlawfull search. the same goes with car searches, NEVER allow them to search your car, always make them get a signed warrent its better to make them work for the pinch, dont walk into shit, OH and dont drink and drive

[ChrisC_EIT]

An emotional story to be sure, but I think Glenn Dandy's point still has merit.


I think Glenn Dandy's a bit of a tool sometime - but if you're questioning just exactly what your local police force is doing to prevent DUI - then ask the officer waiting outside the bar (as they tend to do in) if you can have a breathalyzer before you get into your car.

Oh, and don't drink and drive. That's the easiest way to keep from having to deal with all the horseshit that you're asking for doing it...

[Glenn Dandy]

I think Glenn Dandy's a bit of a tool sometime - but if you're questioning just exactly what your local police force is doing to prevent DUI - then ask the officer waiting outside the bar (as they tend to do in) if you can have a breathalyzer before you get into your car.

"(as they tend to do in)' DOUSHZZZ!* Dice voice.

Hey chowder head ... Read the board... If you have had 4 beers. your .8... Can you count! * dice voice.

Im a tool.:icon_eek:

Thank god you think im a tool or i would shoot myself.

[ChrisC_EIT]

"(as they tend to do in)' DOUSHZZZ!* Dice voice.

Hey chowder head ... Read the board... If you have had 4 beers. your .8... Can you count! * dice voice.

Im a tool.:icon_eek:

Thank god you think im a tool or i would shoot myself.

I'm probably reading this wrong, but I certainly quoted my last post poorly - I'm with you on this one dood.

I still you shouldn't drink and drive, but DUI laws aren't about preventing accidents or deaths or anything. Why not make it 0.01, huh?

About five years ago I blew a 0.069, allowed to head off on my merry way - but really, would I be *that* much worse for the extra 0.011?

[NORTONnFRIENDS]

http://img46.imageshack.us/img46/861/licenseplatedui6cv.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

In Ohio he'd get one of these! That my friend, would suck. NEVER BLOW!!!!

[JimsInfectedEye]

http://img46.imageshack.us/img46/861/licenseplatedui6cv.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

In Ohio he'd get one of these! That my friend, would suck. NEVER BLOW!!!!

Whats that?

[roche]

Whats that?

Ohio drivers caught driving under the influence of drugs or alcohol after midnight Wednesday could spend the first part of 2004 driving with special red-letter license plates.
The state's new drunken driving law takes effect Thursday. It calls for all offenders who are permitted to keep driving to display special license plates until their normal driving privileges are restored.
The special license plates have been available since 1967 but judges have rarely used them.

[NORTONnFRIENDS]

Whats that?


Bright YELLOW and Red DUI plate. Get convicted of dui / dwi. U get a nice plate tellin everyone around you your a drunk.

There thinking about PINK plates for any pedophile convictions. Just imagine the key marks in those rigs when your seen with one of those.

[JimsInfectedEye]

Ohio drivers caught driving under the influence of drugs or alcohol after midnight Wednesday could spend the first part of 2004 driving with special red-letter license plates.
The state's new drunken driving law takes effect Thursday. It calls for all offenders who are permitted to keep driving to display special license plates until their normal driving privileges are restored.
The special license plates have been available since 1967 but judges have rarely used them.

Damn. Talk about having a scarlett letter.

[NORTONnFRIENDS]

Ohio drivers caught driving under the influence of drugs or alcohol after midnight Wednesday could spend the first part of 2004 driving with special red-letter license plates.
The state's new drunken driving law takes effect Thursday. It calls for all offenders who are permitted to keep driving to display special license plates until their normal driving privileges are restored.
The special license plates have been available since 1967 but judges have rarely used them.

Not so rare anymore, my god there everywhere. Cleveland area that is. You can tell the driver hates life because everyone points and laughs. (counting blessings for not being pulled over)

[robinquivers]

Were they really thinking about using the pink plates for pedophiles or am I being gullible?

[NORTONnFRIENDS]

Were they really thinking about using the pink plates for pedophiles or am I being gullible?

Yep, they sure were. I think they got talked out of pink but there will be a destinct plate color for those lucky, lucky people of the pedophile community.

[Cybouncer]

but if you pass the physical tests and are not offered the breathalyzer, why would you be arrested?


First off, if he "Passed" the roadside sobriety test, he would not have been arrested. He may have thought he "Passed", but apparently he didn't. The one test that nobody, no matter how good of a drunk you think you are, can pass is the eye stagmus gaze test. This is when the cop makes you follow the pen left to right, up and down. When an individual is under the influence, their eye(s) will flicker involuntarily. The thing is that the subject of the test doesn't know it's happening. This is probably why he thought he "Passed" the test.

Secondly, the field breathalyzer is not the "Official" test that is used for conviction. This, along with the roadside sobriety test are simply burdon of proof tests to facilitate an arrest. The Breathalyzer in the central processing unit or the station are the only ones that are actually admissable as "irrefutable proof" of intoxicity.

As far as refusing the Breathalyzer, that's a bad move. According to the law in most states, by driving a vehicle, you consent to a breathalyzer at any time if requested by an officer. You can refuse a field breathalyzer and opt for the one at the station but if you refuse that one also, you are considered GUILTY of DUI and will automatically lose your license for up to 1 year. If you're close to being drunk, or you have been drinking, go ahead and refuse the field breathalyzer, but don't ever refuse the one at the station. Many states will plea bargin from a DWI to a DUI, which is still a driving while impaired charge but the penalty is MUCH less than DWI.

Hope this helps, good luck!:action-sm

[Cybouncer]

However, having said that you should always refuse to do FST's (Field Sobreity Tests) or PBT's (Preliminary Breath Tests) in the field using a handheld breath-tester.

These tests are not mandatory, and you will not incur additional license suspensions or criminal penalties for their refusal.


Only the FST & PBT's. If you refuse the test at the station, you are automatically losing your license. This is true in every state in the country.

[Harvey_Birdman]

The one test that nobody, no matter how good of a drunk you think you are, can pass is the eye stagmus gaze test.

Very true, unfortunately even completely sober people often fail the HGN test. That's why it's generally inadmissible as evidence in PA and many other states.

but if you refuse that one also, you are considered GUILTY of DUI and will automatically lose your license for up to 1 year.

Refusal of a BAC test does not automatically make you guilty of the criminal charges. The license suspension is a separate procedure initiated by many jurisdiction's Civil Licensing Department (PennDot or other such organization), but yes, refusal of the BAC test will, in most jurisdictions, result in a lengthy loss of license.

If you're close to being drunk, or you have been drinking, go ahead and refuse the field breathalyzer, but don't ever refuse the one at the station.


Again, whether or not you should refuse the BAC test depends upon the particular factors in your case. What jurisdiction you are in, whether you have any prior offenses, and other factors will determine what is best in your case.

For example, in PA, a driver with no prior offenses would be better off consenting to the BAC test because he or she would probably qualify for ARD (a probation like program) and lose his or her license for only a very short time (not more than 2 months).

However, in PA, if the driver has two or more prior offenses he or she should be more concerned with the likelihood of serious prison time, up to one year minimum, as well as the imposition of other penalties such as ignition interlock. In such a case the person should refuse the BAC test and take the license suspension rather than make the Commonwealth's job easier for a conviction.

There are no clear and simple answers to whether or not you should consent to a BAC test. The best policy is to consult a local attorney to determine the penalties for your particular situation.

[Tax Kuntz]

I did a lot of stupid shit when I was younger, and got away with way too much.

Like Glenn Dandy, I know I can have a bunch of beers, and not get drunk. But in the eyes of the law, I am legally impaired or whatever. So I try not to chance it too much.

The laws and BAC levels really screw with people who know how to drink responsibly.

Can't fight it, just accept it.

[Cybouncer]

Harvy,

You're right. I was not really referring to those who already have a conviction under their belts, but rather someone who got smacked, first offense. In this case, you would be ill advised to refuse a Breathalyzer @ the station.

[Harvey_Birdman]

Fair enough.

[Tommy Ceez]

He has ONE CHANCE

Some people have recently gotten off when thier lawyers asked for a printout of the software code that is used to program the Brethalizer Machines.

Since the lawyer can use the code to check if there is an inherent problem with how the machine determines drunkenness, the courts are inclined to allow it...BUT the machine manufacturers refuse to allow thier source code to get out, because thier scared that competitors will steal it, so when the lawyer reports that he cannot get the code, the judge throws the case out (Google for links to the official stories)

I have 2 more years before my DWAI dissapears from my insurance record forever...FINALLY!!!

[Harvey_Birdman]

Tommy Ceez brings up a new and interesting strategy. I know many DAI attorneys, myself included, are trying this across the nation. While it's had some success a lot of jurisdictions are reluctant to reach the same conclusion.

For more information: http://www.usatoday.com/tech/news/2006-03-12-dui-machines_x.htm

[absinthe]

I've learned way too much from this thread.

[Cybouncer]

Tommy Ceez brings up a new and interesting strategy. I know many DAI attorneys, myself included, are trying this across the nation. While it's had some success a lot of jurisdictions are reluctant to reach the same conclusion.

For more information: http://www.usatoday.com/tech/news/2006-03-12-dui-machines_x.htm


That's a VERY interesting president that has been set.

I think a lot of it has to do with the judge presiding over the case. I can see many judges just disregarding this as frivolous, but it never hurts to try.

Harvey, have you actually had any success with this approach?