Leasing vs. Buying new-Opinions on car buying?

[Kugzilla]

HEy all-WifeZilla and I are expecting baby #3 and need to get a bigger vehicle. She's looking at minivans. WE've always bought, but I'm curious if people have strong opinions either way, as we've never leased.

Comments?

[Ballbuster1]

My personal experience has been that leasing is great if you
can write it off as a business expense. You get nothing out of
a car if you lease it. It's a long term rental. If you need to keep
it for a pretty long term then buying it is the better way to go.
Just my thoughts.

[Bill]

Unless you can deduct a lease off of your taxes, the overall price of leasing is more expensive than owning. The difference is that you pay more upfront to own, then once it's paid off, you pay nothing and then get money back when you sell the car. If you lease, you will pay less per month, but you will always be paying and never get anything back.

You also have to be careful about mileage when you lease. It used to be that you would get about 15K miles per year with an advertised lease. I've been noticing that the leases that I've been seeing in ads are typically only for 12K or even 10K per year. The per mileage cost if you exceed the mileage limit is very expensive.

[jpc165]

i made out leasing my 350z. my buyout is 15000 and it is still worth about 25000. plus i would not be able to afford the payments buying it when i got it a few years back. so i was able to get my fancy car at a young age by leasing and still make out on the buyout option.

[ih8Uboo-boo]

I think that it depends on what you're looking for as there are pros and cons to buying and leasing. I've leased most of my cars, just wasn't a fan of parting with a ton of coin and still having a huge car payment, plus I get bored with cars relatively easily.

You can go Here (http://www.carbuyingtips.com/lease.htm) for some more info about leasing.

Some basic things that you should know about leasing:

Make sure that the lease agreement includes Gap Insurance, this covers the "gap" of what you would owe if you total on the car vs. what the insurance company pays you. If you owe $10k on the car, and the insurance company gives you $8, your responsible for the difference. Most lease agreements include this but you want to be sure.

Mileage is something that you need to be aware of, if you do a lot of driving you'll need at least 15k/year. I wouldn't get less than 12k unless you know for a fact that you aren't going to drive it a lot. Its definitely cheaper to buy the miles up front than pay for it when you turn the car in.

Unless you can pay cash, and the car is worth it. Never, NEVER, NEVER, EVER buy a car that you are leasing. You'll wind up paying a ridiculous amount of interest for a used car when is all said and done. If you don't know a lease is basically a loan and has interest. So you've already paid interest for the lease, and will pay more interest on the loan for the "buy out".

Maintenance, you are required to do all of the maintenance on all "wear and tear" items as if you owned the car (i.e. Oil Changes, Tire Rotation, brakes). Also, if you have to replace a tire, make sure that you use he same tire(s). A common oversight that a lot of people make is that when they replace a tire, they'll throw any tire on the car. The lease company will ding you with a fee if its not a "set of 4". If your car came with a "set" of 4 Goodyear Tires, they expect a "set" when you turn the car in. They don't have to be the same brand as when you took delivery of the car, but they have to be the same brand (All Michelin, All Firestone, etc).

I am pretty sure that you can walk in to a dealer with a lease agreement worked out as opposed to using the dealer's leasing company. There's some information on the first link I gave.

I really don't know too much about it, but another option that you might want to check out is leasetrader.com. This site lets you assume other people's leases. I don't know what the fees associated with it are but its worth a look if you want a short term lease (less than 1yr). Here's the Link (www.leasetrader.com).

[Kugzilla]

Thanks-keep it coming.

[Brady T cell]

Leasing is good if you want a car that you can't afford to buy outright or if you get bored with a car after a few years and want to hop into another new one.
Buying is good with a newborn because you don't have to worry about the baby spilling juice or vomit and ruining the carpet on a car that will be turned in. It's also good if you plan on keeping a car for 4-6 years.

[DoughBoy]

I buy because I drive things until they die. I put 120k miles on my last truck and I plan on putting the same on my current truck.

I'm suprised I got a grand for my trade-in. that thing was beat to shit.

[Cunt Smasher]

Where I live we seem to rack up alot of miles,sometimes 25k a year,and I've seen people get trapped in leases by being over on mileage.You return the car and they want $3000 in milage but say they will "forgive" it if you lease a new one.Cough up the cash or stay stuck in a new lease.If you live in the city and keep the mileage down the reasons stated above apply,but do research and be careful as there are are 100 ways you can take it in the ass.

[Fruit Monkey]

uggggg i was a lease manager for a long time facts

1. u pay interest on the entire purchase price of the car in the lease
2. if u are buying a payment or own a compnay in a state that allows u you write it off fine
3. if u purchase that car at the end of the lease u are double dumb
4. be careful by increasing the msrp of a car u can get lower lease payments

ie sunroof, chrome wheels, aux cd player etc...... all i can say is there are alot of cars out there that are suppose to have sunroofs and dont.

5. if u cant afford to buy the car then buy a used one 1 or 2 years old leasing is for people who demand a new car and buy a payment and not a car.

6. any thing you do to the car u dont get back unless u take it off before u turn it in. tinted windows radios wheels etc..


7 buying benefit u dont like the car sell it just make sure u are not "upside down" owe more then the car is worth. in other words if u can afford to put say triple the tax down u are in a good start.

8. a mini van? why have u seen the rear cargo space it sucks ass and suvs are worse.

im not sure but some cars have larger trunks then mini vans.


9. dude before u go im me maybe i can help i was in the car biz for about 7 years i got people i know still selling some manage if i can help i will

[Sinn Fein]

Here's another option for you:

Buy a Toyota-Certified used Sienna or a Honda-Certified Used Odyssey.

Toyota gives you a 6-year/100K warranty and Honda gives you a 7-year/120K warranty. This is better than what you get on a new one. Usually you can find a 1-2 year old one with very low miles and save alot over new, and with the killer warranty it's hard to beat.

Honda Certified search (http://automobiles.honda.com/certified/landing.asp)

Toyota Certified search (http://www.toyota.com/html/tcuv/?s_van=http://www.toyota.com/certified)

[MyMomsBox]

I leased an 02' Passat for 4 years. Biggest mistake of my life when it came to the financial aspect of it. Least I gave VW what they deserved though. They got back a Passat that looked mint on the outside, but suffered through a head on collission and a tree falling on it. They're never going to sell that thing if people look at a carfax report.

[flyerfan116]

I have a hard time with the leasing thing #1 b/c of the milage limits and #2 b/c like someone else said your basically renting for a long period of time.
Do you own your home? If so i say the best way to go is to get a home equity loan with a 3 - 5 year payment period and use that money to buy the car...assuming you can get a decent rate....that way you'll get the title to the car right away in case you decide you want to sell it down the road, plus the interest you pay would usually be tax deductible.

[ih8Uboo-boo]

I have a hard time with the leasing thing #1 b/c of the milage limits and #2 b/c like someone else said your basically renting for a long period of time.
Do you own your home? If so i say the best way to go is to get a home equity loan with a 3 - 5 year payment period and use that money to buy the car...assuming you can get a decent rate....that way you'll get the title to the car right away in case you decide you want to sell it down the road, plus the interest you pay would usually be tax deductible.

What is the advantage of personally owning something that depreciates???

Especially something that depreciates as fast as a car does??

[BeezerBlanks]

8. a mini van? why have u seen the rear cargo space it sucks ass and suvs are worse.

im not sure but some cars have larger trunks then mini vans.


yeah seriously its amazing how much space cars these days have. My Grand Prix has a ton of trunk space and the back doors open like 89 degrees so you can put big ass boxes in the back too. Gotta love it.

[thegreatgazoo]

uggggg i was a lease manager for a long time facts


I have a question, doesn't it pay to try to get the initial price down as low as possible and at the end of the lease the dealership usually doesn't want the car back and you can negotiate a better buyout with them? The reason I ask is because I leased my truck for three years at 315 a month. The sticker price was 32,000.00 but i got him down to 29,000.00. I took only 12,000 miles a year because i knew I wanted to buy it at the end. (This lowered my payment) The buyout at the end was 22,000.00. Now six months before the lease ended they contacted me to see if I wanted to buy it out. I told them no unless they lowered the buyout price and let me buy it now not six months later. They asked me how much I wanted to pay. Went on Edmunds and found the truck to be worth about 19,000.00. I offered them 18,000 and they accepted it with no questions asked. In addition, they waived the last six months of the lease payments.
It turned out to be that I paid 27,450.00 (315 x 30 months = 9450.00 + 18,000.00) for a 32,000.00 truck and stretched the payments out over almost three years.
I do divorce work and a client told me to always negotiate with the dealership or leasing company because they do not want the cars back and will always reduce the buyout or work with you to get you to keep the car.
But this has to be done during the last six months of the lease.
Is this ttrue or was I just lucky?

[flyerfan116]

What is the advantage of personally owning something that depreciates???

Especially something that depreciates as fast as a car does??
because when its all said and done you OWN it...to me its like owning a house or renting an apartment...renting just feels like throwing money away to me...as far as the whole depreciation thing yeah it depreciates as soon as you drive it off the lot..but that mainly refers to the trade in value. For example i bought my car about 3 years ago...sticker was like $23k after rebates and haggling i got it down to about $18k..right now i owe about $9k on it but the kelley blue book for private sale is $10k so i could likely sell it privately maybe make a small profit and start off clean, now to pull up the kelley blue book trade in value & its only $8100 which means i'd have to tack $$$ on to a new car if i traded in which is always a killer, but in this case its still pretty close..so yeah if you are planning on buying a car, driving it a week and then trading it in go for the lease..in the long run i think owning is the better deal....just my $0.02

[KneeKnee]

Lease. I was able to get a nicer car for a lot less a month than I would have if I bought. Plus, 3 years I get a new car.

[ih8Uboo-boo]

because when its all said and done you OWN it...to me its like owning a house or renting an apartment...renting just feels like throwing money away to me...

I see your point, but disagree in your real estate analogy, because it is extremely rare for real estate to depreciate over time.

To put it another way, what's the return on your investment if I were to tell you that something that you paid $30K (plus interest) for today is guranteed to not be worth a little more than $15K in 5 yrs? For a car, that's pretty normal, but the probablility that real estate would depreciate at that rate over the same time frame is extremely low.

Personally, I just don't think its worth it to buy, unless you plan on driving the car into the ground. What works best for me is owning one car and leasing a nicer 2nd car.

[flyerfan116]

I see your point, but disagree in your real estate analogy, because it is extremely rare for real estate to depreciate over time.

To put it another way, what's the return on your investment if I were to tell you that something that you paid $30K (plus interest) for today is guranteed to not be worth a little more than $15K in 5 yrs? For a car, that's pretty normal, but the probablility that real estate would depreciate at that rate over the same time frame is extremely low. .
my point was that leasing a car is just like renting you get nothing out of the deal in the end and as far as your fixation on depreciation no a house would not depreciate as fast as a car but if the market takes a nose dive you are fucked....houseing has been ridiculous in this area for the past few years, but history shows the pendulum is swinging the other way and once it goes back to abuyers market people who paid inflated prices for their houses will be forced to stay where they are or take a loss

Personally, I just don't think its worth it to buy, unless you plan on driving the car into the ground. What works best for me is owning one car and leasing a nicer 2nd car.

so don't buy...the guy asked for opinions i gave mine if you don't like it give your and be done with it...and unless you are taking 6-7 year payments buying a car and paying it off in 3-5 years is not running it into the ground

[WMB]

If you the kind of person who wants a new car every 3 years or so, and you're content with having a car payment every month for the rest of your life, lease.

It's a lot easier to walk away from a car at the end of a 3 year lease then trying to sell or trade in an owned car at the same time. Unless you put a big down payment on the car and have a lot of equity in it.

[grail]

In my experience if you drive over 12 miles per day total 5 days/week, a lease is not worth it. The mileage gets you every time. I think Sinn Fein's on the right track. Buy a good quality used vehicle, especially for a ever-expanding family. Good luck.

[ih8Uboo-boo]

my point was that leasing a car is just like renting you get nothing out of the deal in the end and as far as your fixation on depreciation no a house would not depreciate as fast as a car but if the market takes a nose dive you are fucked....houseing has been ridiculous in this area for the past few years, but history shows the pendulum is swinging the other way and once it goes back to abuyers market people who paid inflated prices for their houses will be forced to stay where they are or take a loss

I understood what you were talking about. The point I was trying to make was that in any other situation, you wouldn't be happy losing half of your initial investment. Why is it any different with a car?? I'm just presenting a different view of the same picture.

Ultimately, there is no right answer to the Buy vs. Lease question, because every one has different needs and philosophies regarding their money. What works for one person, doesn't necessarily work for someone else.

The best advice that anyone can give is to be open to both options and pick the one that best suits their needs based on their research. Regardless of whether you buy or lease, your getting fucked in the ass either way. Its just a matter of finding a deal that uses the most lube while they are doing it...

[Bill]

What is the advantage of personally owning something that depreciates???

Especially something that depreciates as fast as a car does??

What you're missing is that by leasing, you are paying for the car while it is depreciating the quickest that it ever will. Using your example of the $30K car that's worth $15K after 5 years, because the depreciation is largest in the beginning of the cars life and decreases at time goes on, it's probably only worth about $18 after a 3 year lease, which is what your payment was based upon.

So, you paid for the 3 most expensive years of that cars life and have nothing to show for it when the lease is done. The guy who buys that car at the end of the lease is the one who gets a great deal.

At the same time after making the 5 years of payments on it, I still have a car that's still worth $15K that I can continue to drive for free (no payments) for a few more years, while you will be paying off the highest depreciation years of aother new car. If I'm smart, I keep "paying myself" the car payments that I had been making and when I decide that it's time to buy a new car I can make a huge down payment on it or possibly pay cash for it.

[7cent]

Well, somewhat related, I am leasing a car. About 15 minutes ago a cop knocked on my door (always scary) to tell me someone backed into it..Not a lot of damage, but it will still need some body work..Is this going to fuck me at the end of the lease?

[jpc165]

What you're missing is that by leasing, you are paying for the car while it is depreciating the quickest that it ever will. Using your example of the $30K car that's worth $15K after 5 years, because the depreciation is largest in the beginning of the cars life and decreases at time goes on, it's probably only worth about $18 after a 3 year lease, which is what your payment was based upon.

So, you paid for the 3 most expensive years of that cars life and have nothing to show for it when the lease is done. The guy who buys that car at the end of the lease is the one who gets a great deal.

At the same time after making the 5 years of payments on it, I still have a car that's still worth $15K that I can continue to drive for free (no payments) for a few more years, while you will be paying off the highest depreciation years of aother new car. If I'm smart, I keep "paying myself" the car payments that I had been making and when I decide that it's time to buy a new car I can make a huge down payment on it or possibly pay cash for it.

conversely, you could use the money you're saving by leasing (by paying alot less money monthly than buying the same car) to use towards your next lease down payment at the end of your lease. since this keeps you in a new car every three years, you'll have less repairs to worry about too as compared to driving your oldern car into the ground. plus you will always be under warranty.

[ih8Uboo-boo]

Well, somewhat related, I am leasing a car. About 15 minutes ago a cop knocked on my door (always scary) to tell me someone backed into it..Not a lot of damage, but it will still need some body work..Is this going to fuck me at the end of the lease?

The short answer is not if you get it fixed.

Look at it this way:

Was the Car dented or damaged when you assumed the lease???
That is how the leasing company will look at the situation...

Realistically speaking it all depends on how bad the damage is. I had an 2000 VW jetta and was rear-ended in traffic. It wasn't too bad, but there was some damage to the rear bumper, mainly a little hole and the bumper itself was off a little, but you really had to look hard for it. I never had it fixed. When I turned it in the only thing that I got hit with was a $200 charge because they had to pick it up at the dealer rather than me droping it off at the specified location which I gladly paid because it had more $200 worth of shit wrong with it. Again it was nothing major.

If the damage is bad enough, you should have it fixed, just to be on the safe side, who knows what the lease company will charge to fix the damage. Some companies have a "pre turn in inspection" where they'll take a look at it before you turn the car back in. They'll tell you what needs to be fixed so you can take care of it prior to the expiration of the lease. You can contact the lease company to see if they offer that service.

[Bill]

conversely, you could use the money you're saving by leasing (by paying alot less money monthly than buying the same car) to use towards your next lease down payment at the end of your lease.


But then you're still paying for the most expensive two or three years of the car's life...over and over again. Today's cars can all be expected to go well beyond 100,000K miles. Hell, most cars today don't require a tune-up until 100K miles.

If you're leasing, you're paying for half of the car and using about 1/5 to 1/8 of the car's life (if that). If you're going to buy a new car every two or three years anyway, go ahead. Personally, I think that it's a better idea to be the guy who buys the car that comes off lease for half the sticker price and use it for the remaining 4/5 to 7/8 of it's life.

[Fruit Monkey]

I have a question, doesn't it pay to try to get the initial price down as low as possible and at the end of the lease the dealership usually doesn't want the car back and you can negotiate a better buyout with them? The reason I ask is because I leased my truck for three years at 315 a month. The sticker price was 32,000.00 but i got him down to 29,000.00. I took only 12,000 miles a year because i knew I wanted to buy it at the end. (This lowered my payment) The buyout at the end was 22,000.00. Now six months before the lease ended they contacted me to see if I wanted to buy it out. I told them no unless they lowered the buyout price and let me buy it now not six months later. They asked me how much I wanted to pay. Went on Edmunds and found the truck to be worth about 19,000.00. I offered them 18,000 and they accepted it with no questions asked. In addition, they waived the last six months of the lease payments.
It turned out to be that I paid 27,450.00 (315 x 30 months = 9450.00 + 18,000.00) for a 32,000.00 truck and stretched the payments out over almost three years.
I do divorce work and a client told me to always negotiate with the dealership or leasing company because they do not want the cars back and will always reduce the buyout or work with you to get you to keep the car.
But this has to be done during the last six months of the lease.
Is this ttrue or was I just lucky?

ok which question u want answer first? the buy back or better known as the residual price is not set by the dealer every dealer in the country is given a set value which is based off the highest msrp..... so when u see a car with those factory discounts right on the sticker like free ac or free abc123 package they get added back on this is why a dealer loves to install a power sunroof on cars back then it was a 1200 value dealer pays 750 for it and they can if they didnt make a shit load of cash on actually lower your price for u ............

also rebates do apply to a lease and something u willl never know of its called dealer cash u pay no tax on it. and u never know if a car has it or not we used to get our ford rep to give us 1500 a car on weekend sales if we had a big promo going ie tent sale etc .. great way to make some real cash selling shitty new cars

did i eve come close to what u are asking i got no clue 315 a month 0 down? i love hearing lease storys to dispute me but id love to read the first 5-8 lines of that lease u know the paragraph in the highlited box with a shit load of #'s in it .
did u get it while they were giving cars away all last summer? cause cherolet had a 120 day supply of carsd and was fucked in the ass...... which means if the factorys blew up they could sell cars for 120 days with out any probs at dealer levels

can u negotiate your buy back shit yes if its before the turn in date best time used to be around 45-50 before lease ended biggest profit i ever made was doing that HENCE I WAS THE LEASE MANG FOR A LONG TIME!!

leasing a car for 12k - 15k yes your buy back is lower payments high cause the car is worth less with more miles on it u can pump a lease upto about 25k a year if u like.

so let me get this right u leased it then bought it? i pray u didnt finance that buy back amount now u have paid interest on the 27450 twice !


in short a lease looks like this

msrp 32,000
purhcase price 29,000
residual 34%

32k - 34% ='s

10800 buy back amount aka residual

29000-10800='s 18200

18200/36 months plus interest on the 32000 say 3.9% say 3000 is amortarized sorry i am not getting out my finance calc.

if i `can find the old hand written formula ill give it to u all

thats in short how a lease is done the 34% is way off just giving u an idea
and they get the buy back amounts on current auctuions prices ie
3 year old cad cts with 36k on it sells in auction for roughly 15000 so they set they next 06' cars at 16500 for inflation

and so on

[ih8Uboo-boo]

Another NO-NO in leasing that I forgot to mention in one of my earlier posts....

NEVER, NEVER, NEVER put a lot of money down on a lease. A lot of times you see an ad $299/month for whatever they are pushing. Usually there is a $$$ figure burried in the add that you have to "put down" to get that payment. In the leasing world its called a Cap Cost Reduction, in the real world its called A DOWN PAYMENT. That is not money that you will get back when you turn in the car at the end of the lease. So your just throwing that cash away, because as it was already stated, your basically renting the car. What you want to do is essentially roll that into your payment, so that you part with as little up front cash as possible. For example you see an add for a BMW 3-Series @ $325/mo, for 39 months with $3,900 down. Not giving them the cash will change the payment, increasing it by approximately $100/mo ($3,900/39=100) from $325 to $425 plus tax, tags, etc.

It is extremely rare that you can get into a lease for anything nice with "no money down". You want to try and pay for registration and other fees rather than rolling them into your payment. Its an easy way to knock $10 - $15 off the payment. I usually figure that I am going to spend around $1000 give or take to get into a lease when it is all said and done.

[Fruit Monkey]

Another NO-NO in leasing that I forgot to mention in one of my earlier posts....

NEVER, NEVER, NEVER put a lot of money down on a lease. A lot of times you see an ad $299/month for whatever they are pushing. Usually there is a $$$ figure burried in the add that you have to "put down" to get that payment. In the leasing world its called a Cap Cost Reduction, in the real world its called A DOWN PAYMENT. That is not money that you will get back when you turn in the car at the end of the lease. So your just throwing that cash away, because as it was already stated, your basically renting the car. What you want to do is essentially roll that into your payment, so that you part with as little up front cash as possible. For example you see an add for a BMW 3-Series @ $325/mo, for 39 months with $3,900 down. Not giving them the cash will change the payment, increasing it by approximately $100/mo ($3,900/39=100) from $325 to $425 plus tax, tags, etc.

It is extremely rare that you can get into a lease for anything nice with "no money down". You want to try and pay for registration and other fees rather than rolling them into your payment. Its an easy way to knock $10 - $15 off the payment. I usually figure that I am going to spend around $1000 give or take to get into a lease when it is all said and done.


money down is to lower the payment is all

and yes tax, first, security deposit, ccr. if one, plus plates and i see alot do a 450 bank fee now baha baha baha baha yea thats is called pure profit !" dont charge it we just collect it" baha baha my old line yea and i see alot of 350.oo prep fee haha ok they get paid to clean the cars and "make ready" for delivery by the manufc.

[ih8Uboo-boo]

Fruit:

Here's a question for you...

GMAC usually runs what they call a "pull ahead" program where they basically forgive X number of payments (usually 4-6 months) provided you get into another GM car. Is that a good deal, or are you better off going to the term of the lease? I did this before because it made sense, because I would have been waaaaay over the miles at the end of the lease.

Did I take advantage of the deal or was I taken advantage of???

[Kugzilla]

We ended up buying. A Minivan. But its her car.

*sighs* A minivan....

[ih8Uboo-boo]

hopefully it was a sienna or an odessy...

[Kugzilla]

Odyssey. It's not bad, but I'm glad its her car and I can keep driving my cool Outback.

Thanks for everyone's input. Go Whackbag consumer report!

[MyMomsBox]

You got a fagwagon...hahaha.

[d0uche_n0zzle]

How many MPG's does that fagwagon get compared to your vehicle?

I'd take any AWD 4 banger over a 2WD gas guzzler.

[thegreatgazoo]

ok which question u want answer first? the buy back or better known as the residual price is not set by the dealer every dealer in the country is given a set value which is based off the highest msrp..... so when u see a car with those factory discounts right on the sticker like free ac or free abc123 package they get added back on this is why a dealer loves to install a power sunroof on cars back then it was a 1200 value dealer pays 750 for it and they can if they didnt make a shit load of cash on actually lower your price for u ............

also rebates do apply to a lease and something u willl never know of its called dealer cash u pay no tax on it. and u never know if a car has it or not we used to get our ford rep to give us 1500 a car on weekend sales if we had a big promo going ie tent sale etc .. great way to make some real cash selling shitty new cars

did i eve come close to what u are asking i got no clue 315 a month 0 down? i love hearing lease storys to dispute me but id love to read the first 5-8 lines of that lease u know the paragraph in the highlited box with a shit load of #'s in it .
did u get it while they were giving cars away all last summer? cause cherolet had a 120 day supply of carsd and was fucked in the ass...... which means if the factorys blew up they could sell cars for 120 days with out any probs at dealer levels



I appreciate you taking the time to answer. When I leased the truck it appears as if the dealer sold it to a Bank because everything was between me and FirsT Fidelity Bank. When I bought it after the lease I bought it from the bank. Also they offered me an extended warranty at the time I bought it out. If I refinance with them, they would give me an extended warranty for what ever time period I took out the loan. The milage limit was 100,000 no matter how many years. If the loan was two years, the warranty would be two years, if loan was five years, warranty was five years. It cost me $750.00. So I took out a five year loan, got the warranty for five years and then paid off the loan the very next month with my savings. I have used the warranty at least three times already and it has paid for itself four times over so far.

My problem is that some of that stuff that you are talking about just goes right over my head. I always look at a lease as sort of an extended loan. I take out a short lease and then try to get a reduced by out. If I can get a two year lease at a low rate and then buy it out and refinance it for three years at a low rate, it is like a five year loan. So far I've done this on about three cars and each time, like my truck, I usually wind up making total payments less than the original asking price. To me that's like a interest free loan.

Now I can be wrong but like I said, alot of this stuff is greek to me and you seem to know what you are talking about. I was just wondering if what I was doing made sense. Thanks again.

[Kugzilla]

Fagwagon?

That's pretty funny actually. But my Outback is sweet and I like it.

It's green.