You can stop wondering why gas is so high

[thegreatgazoo]

If you are wondering why gas prices are going to keep rising, all you have to do is read what the CEO of Gm said. He has no concern about people buying his products even if gas hits $4.00 a gallon, and a survey taken indicates that most people believe gas will go up to $5.50 a gallon. If you have executives believing people will pay whatever to drive cars that get 10 miles a gallon, what do you think the oil companys think.

They are going to keep shoving it up our ass til we say no more. Unfortunately we aren't doing anything but lying there taking it. All we have to do is conserve a little and show the oil companies we aren't going to put up with it and you will see how fast their surplus rises and prices go down, Even today our oil supply is greater than it was five years ago yet the price is way higher. The market is going to push us til they see when we had enough. This BP crap is just another example. All of a sudden they have to shut it down? Why not keep it going til they build a new one and then switch over. Oh yea, I forgot, there was a four gallon spill.

[d0uche_n0zzle]

Yeah, fuck the maaaaaaan.

[DoughBoy]

boo fucking hoo. Go buy a hybrid. Do gas prices suck? Yup. Does it make me NOT drive a 6cyl 4.0 liter 4x4 pickup truck? Fuck no.

[thegreatgazoo]

boo fucking hoo. Go buy a hybrid. Do gas prices suck? Yup. Does it make me NOT drive a 6cyl 4.0 liter 4x4 pickup truck? Fuck no.


Well i have a 5.9, 8cyl dodge ram that get s 10 miles a gallon that I'm not getting rid of but I can think of alot better things to do with my money than pay to get oil compnies rich. You seem to enjoy it so everytime you pay 50-70 dollars to fill up your tank you can smile it but I won't.

[honky]

fuck hybrids as well. get a diesel jetta. sure it may not be as environmentally friendly, but i get 45-50 miles a gallon. i drive 500 miles a week on one tank of gas. diesel is cheaper than regular right now. i spend about $36.00 a week and use far less gas than any 4-cylinder gasoline engine. i'm sticking it to the man without compromising my on-the-go, jetsetting lifestyle. that last statement is meant to give a douche chill.

[Warfarer]

I have a 6.0 V8 Chevy 2500 HD and I love it. It is a bitch to park. I was watching CNN last night and one of the oil tycoon said about the Alaska oil, "we have a good sized surplus right now so we don't need the oil from Alaska". What the fuck? Isn't the excuse for jacking oil prices for the last 2 years been that there is an oil shortage in the US and now he came out and said that?

[Warfarer]

fuck hybrids as well. get a diesel jetta. sure it may not be as environmentally friendly, but i get 45-50 miles a gallon. i drive 500 miles a week on one tank of gas. diesel is cheaper than regular right now. i spend about $36.00 a week and use far less gas than any 4-cylinder gasoline engine. i'm sticking it to the man without compromising my on-the-go, jetsetting lifestyle. that last statement is meant to give a douche chill.

Diesel isn't as environmentally friendly as a hybrid, but it is much cleaner than gas due to diesel burning much slower than gas does. In the south, diesel prices fluctuate about 40 cents between towns. In one town it may be $.10 less than regular and 20 miles down the road it may be $.10 more than regular. It is crazy here.

[DoughBoy]

Are you really crying about fighting the 'man'?

Yeah, the oil company execs are making fucktons of money... so are a lot of other people. You need to get to a place where you can make enough not to give a shit. If this bothers you, you don't make enough.

[honky]

Are you really crying about fighting the 'man'?

Yeah, the oil company execs are making fucktons of money... so are a lot of other people. You need to get to a place where you can make enough not to give a shit. If this bothers you, you don't make enough.


opie, is that you?

[ih8Uboo-boo]

for gas prices being as "bad as they are" I sure as fuck don't see any fewer cars on the road...

[thegreatgazoo]

Are you really crying about fighting the 'man'?

Yeah, the oil company execs are making fucktons of money... so are a lot of other people. You need to get to a place where you can make enough not to give a shit. If this bothers you, you don't make enough.


I make a good living now where it is not going to really affect me or force me to change my life, but wow, I don't think I will ever be in a position where I don't get bothered by being ripped off. My hats off to you sir. You are a better man than I am.

[B54]

Stop complaining. If you do not like gas prices that much, go live in Dubai where a gallon of gas is cheaper than a gallon of water.

[Sunsetspawn]

If oil execs started dropping dead one by one do you think it would make them lower gas prices?

[Buster H]

boo fucking hoo. Go buy a hybrid. Do gas prices suck? Yup. Does it make me NOT drive a 6cyl 4.0 liter 4x4 pickup truck? Fuck no.
That is your choice. Because I hunt, fish, mountain bike, snowboard and ski, I need something that has loads of cargo space and is also 4wd. I chose an Outback. I take a TON of heat from friends about it, but it gets great mileage. I'm a big believer in to each their own. If yer willing to pay for tons of gas, fine. I'm not.

Are you really crying about fighting the 'man'?

Yeah, the oil company execs are making fucktons of money... so are a lot of other people. You need to get to a place where you can make enough not to give a shit. If this bothers you, you don't make enough.

I dont know about others, but I did not choose a car that had good mileage to fight the man or to save the planet. I put about 25k-30k miles a year on my car.
At 25mpg, i end up paying around $3500 a year on fuel. If I had a vehicle that only gave me 14mpg, that would put it at $6285. It just makes sense to me.


Sorry to quote both of your posts, but yours helped me illustrate my point the best.

[B54]

If oil execs started dropping dead one by one do you think it would make them lower gas prices?

Even if that happened, gas prices would only drop a penny or so.

[HummerTuesdays]

If you think the oil companies are going to continue to make huge profits, why not buy some stock in said companies and share in the wealth?

Stop driving as much and start driving more sensibly *OR* stop bitching about the price of gas. I try to drive the speed limit and get as close to 40 mpg as I can, but those days when I'm heinously late, and flying up the GSP at 80mph, I have no one but myself to blame for wasting it.

I read in Fortune that $3/gallon seems to be the tipping point where there is a slight decrease in consumption. Gas has been hovering around $2.90-$3 in my area for months, so I'm guessing people are used to the prices and consumption is back on track. However, if the price continues to rise faster than my income, I might just have to beg to compress my work week and commute only 4 days/week instead of 5.

:deadhorse

[novalia]

i love my SUV =)

[thegreatgazoo]

My point in making this thread was more to just vent than to tell people what to drive. Everyone should be able to drive what they want but not get ripped off. It just seems as if the price of gas is no longer based upon the market but based upon seeing how much the oil companies and the refineries can get away with. We have more oil reserves now than five years ago yet all you hear are shortages. My last gas bill was $1076.00 for the month and my wife's, who is a visiting nurse was $545.00. That's a total of $1621.00 for one month. Two years ago it was about $450.00 to $500.00. But it seems as if the majority of you aren't bothered by paying more so I'll stop. Sorry for venting.

[D.H. Jenkins]

I just paid $85 to fill the tank in my GMC 1500. Do I think it sucks? Yes. Can I do anything about it legally? No.

Does getting bothered about something I can realistically do nothing about make my life any better? No.

I vote - that's enough. If everyone who was unhappy did the same, we wouldn't be in this mess.

[novalia]

make more money =)

[LazyOne]

there just gunna stop at $3 a gallon for a few months. where gunna get used to it and then they will up the prices another 10 - 20%. Then prices will be around $3.3, they will do the same thing and prices will just keep rising. fucken bastards

[Kid Brock]

boo fucking hoo. Go buy a hybrid. Do gas prices suck? Yup. Does it make me NOT drive a 6cyl 4.0 liter 4x4 pickup truck? Fuck no.



My message board ESP tells me you must drive a Ford Ranger Edge or FX4 then.

[Leslie Anne]

I like that idea. A three day weekend sounds fabulous! I don't complain about gas prices. It's not going to ever be .99 a gallon again, anyway, so it's not worth losing sleep over. I've read several lists of suggestions that people have given in reference to saving gas.

I'm not going to use public transportation (germs), so that's out of the question. Car pooling means that I'll have to wait on someone else in the morning. I'm already a bitch in the mornings, so adding another person into the picture that's probably a chatter box...not so good. They also say to turn off your car when you're idle in traffic. Yeah, like I'm going to turn off my car so that I'll save gas, but in the mean time, I'll fry like a piece of bacon because it's 104 FUCKIN' degrees outside (or when it's 20 degrees outside and you've got to scrape ice off of your steering wheel)!

Nope. I'll continue to pay $2.89 a gallon and say thanks to the maaan who invented my automobile so that I may get from point A to point B in an air-conditioned/comfortable way.

[Digital_Trauma]

You should be mad at OPEC and the oil trading markets. Gas is in very high demand these days, so the price of oil goes up. The "oil companies" make about 9% profit. That's not really a very high percentage at all. Lots of people own stock and/or are in mutual funds, 401k's, etc that have oil companies involved. Many do not even realize they are making "obscene profits, like the oil company execs, maaaannnnnnnnn."

Let's say the price of gasoline goes from $2.00 a gallon when you bought your SUV/Truck/large car to $3.00 now.
You drive about 30 miles a day to work round trip, so 150 miles a week, plus add another 50 personal miles to make it 200 miles per week. I'll even double it to 400 miles, just for kicks. You get about 8 miles per gallon, which would be about the worst daily driver ever (1986 Suburban with a big block engine, Hummer H1, 1968 Buick Electra225 with a 455, etc.) At 400 miles per week, 8 miles per gallon, you would be using 50 gallons a week for your gasoline.

If you purchased the vehicle thinking 50 gallons at $2.00 per gallon seemed reasonable, then at $3.00 you have some decisions to make. My first choice would be selling that tank you drive and get a honda. If this extra $50 really makes or breaks you, I'd say you have some other, probably more serious, problems with money in general. Use my same formula, but with a car that gets 30 miles per gallon, and you only spend about $14 extra a week. It's certainly not fun, but doesn't seem like the end of the world to me.

[Bill]

If you purchased the vehicle thinking 50 gallons at $2.00 per gallon seemed reasonable, then at $3.00 you have some decisions to make. My first choice would be selling that tank you drive and get a honda. If this extra $50 really makes or breaks you, I'd say you have some other, probably more serious, problems with money in general.

That $2,600 per year could be a nice vacation or half the cost of sending a kid to camp for the summer.

[Ol'BloodyBottom]

lower the prices please. Car business is slow with high gas prices.

[Deadbent]

Nothing much to add here except a friendly FU to whoever said they pay 2.89 a gallon. :p
I don't think fuel has been that cheap by me in almost two and a half years.
It was 3.57 a gallon yesterday.

[B54]

Nothing much to add here except a friendly FU to whoever said they pay 2.89 a gallon. :p
I don't think fuel has been that cheap by me in almost two and a half years.
It was 3.57 a gallon yesterday.

I just filled up for 2.86$. I haven't seen a pump higher than 3.10$ here in Georgia. I saw a 3.29$ while in Flordia. That was the highest I have ever seen.

[thegreatgazoo]

You should be mad at OPEC and the oil trading markets. Gas is in very high demand these days, so the price of oil goes up. The "oil companies" make about 9% profit. That's not really a very high percentage at all. Lots of people own stock and/or are in mutual funds, 401k's, etc that have oil companies involved. Many do not even realize they are making "obscene profits, like the oil company execs, maaaannnnnnnnn."

Let's say the price of gasoline goes from $2.00 a gallon when you bought your SUV/Truck/large car to $3.00 now.
You drive about 30 miles a day to work round trip, so 150 miles a week, plus add another 50 personal miles to make it 200 miles per week. I'll even double it to 400 miles, just for kicks. You get about 8 miles per gallon, which would be about the worst daily driver ever (1986 Suburban with a big block engine, Hummer H1, 1968 Buick Electra225 with a 455, etc.) At 400 miles per week, 8 miles per gallon, you would be using 50 gallons a week for your gasoline.

If you purchased the vehicle thinking 50 gallons at $2.00 per gallon seemed reasonable, then at $3.00 you have some decisions to make. My first choice would be selling that tank you drive and get a honda. If this extra $50 really makes or breaks you, I'd say you have some other, probably more serious, problems with money in general. Use my same formula, but with a car that gets 30 miles per gallon, and you only spend about $14 extra a week. It's certainly not fun, but doesn't seem like the end of the world to me.

What about the poor guy trying to raise a family making say $45,000 a year. 50 gallons a week at $3.50 is about $175.00 a week or $9100.00 a year. After taxes it eats up about 1/3 of his net. That's alot of money. The ones being hit hardest are the average working Joe. The rich could care less. Like the poster before said, the difference might not mean alot to you but it could mean sending your kid to camp or not going on vacation. That was my point. Meanwhile oil executives are retiring on 440,000,000.00 packages. But from what I read here, the majority are not outraged and that is why the prices are not coming down. As long as we have the "quit crying comment" why should the oil companies lower the price.

[thegreatgazoo]

I just filled up for 2.86$. I haven't seen a pump higher than 3.10$ here in Georgia. I saw a 3.29$ while in Flordia. That was the highest I have ever seen.

If you have to use premium as my cars do, it was 3.59 this morning. Regular was 3.09 in Pa.

[MJMANDALAY]

Jersey in the Hood this morning $2.86 cash only.

[honky]

yeah, jersey doesn't have much to complain about compared to the rest of the country. i usually pay between 2.73 and 2.85 for diesel.

[Angelfuck]

Jersey in the Hood this morning $2.86 cash only.

I saw 2.89 in fort lee the other day, we got upstate near bear mt and it was 3.59, it stays around $3 out here and thats self serve, Im glad I dont drive I wouldnt be able to afford the gas nevermind a car

[HummerTuesdays]

What about the poor guy trying to raise a family making say $45,000 a year. 50 gallons a week at $3.50 is about $175.00 a week or $9100.00 a year. After taxes it eats up about 1/3 of his net. That's alot of money. The ones being hit hardest are the average working Joe. The rich could care less. Like the poster before said, the difference might not mean alot to you but it could mean sending your kid to camp or not going on vacation. That was my point. Meanwhile oil executives are retiring on 440,000,000.00 packages. But from what I read here, the majority are not outraged and that is why the prices are not coming down. As long as we have the "quit crying comment" why should the oil companies lower the price.

I hear what you're saying, but that $440M would lower the cost of a gallon by a penny, if that.

I feel for the guy trying to raise a family, but now is the time for him to make some hard choices. Keep the job that's 25 miles from home that he drives to every day, or find something he can take mass transit to, walk to, bike to, etc. Evaluate driving habits on weekends/week nights. How often is the wife driving that 1/2 mile to Quick Check for cigarettes, then going back out after dinner for ice cream, etc. when they can WALK? Maybe it is time to replace one of the SUVs with a more economical car.

My point is that it is not the responsibility of the gas companies to help us make ends meet. If I was selling a product, you bet that I would sell it for the highest price people were willing to pay so that I could maximize my profits. It wouldn't matter to me if you couldn't afford it, because there are people out there that can.

[LilJimmyRbinson]

What about the poor guy trying to raise a family making say $45,000 a year. 50 gallons a week at $3.50 is about $175.00 a week or $9100.00 a year. After taxes it eats up about 1/3 of his net. That's alot of money. The ones being hit hardest are the average working Joe.

That's the big problem. Everyone is free to buy and drive what they want. I hear people say "all this so we can keep driving our big SUVs. Well the vast majority of people who drive the biggest SUVs aren't concerned with gas prices. If you can afford a $60,000 Hummer, $3.00 gas prices don't concern you.

However, since most of us can't afford such a car, $3.00 gas is a burden.

[B54]

If you have to use premium as my cars do, it was 3.59 this morning. Regular was 3.09 in Pa.

What kind of car(s) do you drive?

[D.H. Jenkins]

9% isn't much of a profit margin?

9% is one hell of a profit margin when you're talking about 320,500,000 gallons per day.

It affects more than the price of a fill-up, too. Everything shipped via rail or truck costs more - shipping companies and vendors do NOT eat the extra cost.

[Save My Up's Dick]

"It is so choice.
If you have the means, I highly recommend picking one up."
-F.B.


http://www.cars.com/features/mvp/cadillac/escalade/images/main_cadillac_escalade.jpg
"Ferris Bueller, you're my hero"

Nice WBL :icon_bigg ...love that movie.

[Angelfuck]

updated fuel prices in your area
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/gasprices/states/index.shtml

this should be fun: calculate your mpg & annual fuel cost
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/

[BCH]

Let me Revert Back to a post I made on September 9th 2005

hat's total dollars and not margin.

10 Widgits bought for $2.00 marked up 10% to $2.20 = 10% Profit Margin $2.00 Profit

10 Widgits bought for $3.00 marked up 10% to $3.30 = 10% Profit Margin $3.00 Profit.


Voila! Record Profits. Which do you suggest? They should sell less to keep profits in check thereby creating long lines and shortages or should they reduce their margin and have all their shareholders sell off their stock dropping their share price to .10 Cents?





PS Anyone who doesn't get the revert back reference don't try correcting my grammar.

[westben2002]

England :$5.50 a gallon
France : $7.40 a gallon
China: $6.99 a gallon

So before we go 'road warrior' on each other, i think we should look how high other countries gas prices are and just be thankful most places are 4 bucks a gallon

[HumpX]

There was a fuel crisis in the 1970s too. People said we needed to conserve gasoline.
Your answer is not too far from theirs back in the 70's. Cool huh?:

http://summerville-novascotia.com/AmericanMotors/1979_AMC_Pacer_Limited_Hatchback_Sport_Coupe.jpg

Fuck that we're all doomed! Live a little.




Screw you Cumia! I had a PACER X back in the day! (no I'm NOT kidding)

come to think of it, a lot of my friends seemed to drift away after I bought it.....

hmm

[Iron Duke]

boo fucking hoo. Go buy a hybrid. Do gas prices suck? Yup. Does it make me NOT drive a 6cyl 4.0 liter 4x4 pickup truck? Fuck no.


4.2 liter baby. Just traded the 5.3 liter pickup. Picked up a Trail Blazer and not through the first tank yet. Just got tired of paying $100 to fill up every week.

[Iron Duke]

I can't wait to get my own radio show and make a few million. Then I'm gonna get me that bid caddy escalade too.:action-sm

[Iron Duke]

http://img65.imageshack.us/img65/1523/oandaspot01jd1.jpg

And just for the record, I'd hit 'em both.


















































(no homo):action-sm

[D.H. Jenkins]

There's always this:

http://www.vtarmynavy.com/gas-siphon-pump.htm

It even costs less than a gallon of premium.

[Iron Duke]

England :$5.50 a gallon
France : $7.40 a gallon
China: $6.99 a gallon

So before we go 'road warrior' on each other, i think we should look how high other countries gas prices are and just be thankful most places are 4 bucks a gallon

Yes but they tend to have much better infrastructures than we do.

[THE FEZ MAN]

fuck the mannnnn mannnnn. ive got my ear to the ground for a small deisel pick up truck either a nissan or toyota from the late 70-80's with a 4cyl deisel motor that i can convert to run on fry oil. bio deisel is the wave of the future. i would love to convert my house to run on it also if i could, dont get me wrong i own 3 V8's and a bmw that loves hightest, i am quite the motor head. but for every day back and forth to work driveing i hate getting 10mpg

[Fruit Monkey]

That is your choice. Because I hunt, fish, mountain bike, snowboard and ski, I need something that has loads of cargo space and is also 4wd. I chose an Outback.


The real reason you chose and Outback is?,

A) you are gay
B) you are a geek
C) you are a nerdy engineer
D) all of the above!

Answer.?
















( D ) I sold those shit boxes for a long time and those are the only people who bought them.

[THE FEZ MAN]

you forgot sandle wareing

[abudabit]

Buying a new car isn't the only way to save gas, although if you are driving a "14 mpg" vehicle it might be a good idea. They tell you it gets 14, it really probably gets half of that in the real world.

Hybrids and shit only seem economical if you drive a lot. Don't know how much those TDI deisels cost though.

But looking at your driving habits you can often cut your gas usage in half, all in the same vehicle.

[Digital_Trauma]

If you have to use premium as my cars do, it was 3.59 this morning. Regular was 3.09 in Pa.
Maybe you should get rid of your vehicles that "have to use premium." Believe it or not, people can responsible for making their own choices. They don't need you to hold their hands and worry about them. What about the guy making $45,000 with a family? He can move his family close to his job and get a small car with good gas mileage. If he wants a gas guzzler, that's his choice. Maybe it means his kids can't go to camp for the summer. There are lots of kids who don't go to camp.

[D.H. Jenkins]

"Premium is recommended for optimum performance" is not the same thing as "premium is required".

If a lambo will run on regular pump gas, so will whatever you've got.

[thegreatgazoo]

I don't begrudge anyone driving what they want. if you can adfford it, more power to you. My problem is with the mentality of the oil companys and other executives. They all think we are fools and they are right. There is no reason for the price of gas to go up .16 in one day when oil went down which it did last week. i paid 3.39 in the morning and it was 3.55 when I came home. All this pricing is based upon speculation. All someone has to do is say storm, war or anything else and the price goes up. It is so stupid. I would love to shove the oil back down the oil companys throat. we all should just drive 60 and you will see the drop in the price. The fact is there is no shortage, there is no crisis, the only thing there is, is the oil companies and the refineries seeing how high we are willing to pay for a gallon of gas. So far we have shown them that we will still pay anything so up goes the price. We don't have to change our lifestyle, just slow down. it was said that if everyone drove under 60 mph for 30 days , gas would drop signifigantly because of the fact it would save so much.

Oh and WBL, I used to like that pacer when I was younger. Let the jokes begin. See you all at PNC

[bigbill]

Jesus, there is some serious math going on in this thread. I hope we are not going to be quizzed at it's conclusion. "If a train leaves Chicago travelling 45 mph..." This thread reads like an SAT question.

I agree somewhat with Gazoo's original premise, it really sucks that we have to seriously alter our lifestyle for psuedo shortages when all the while the oil companies are making ridiculous profits. And where did that 9% profit margin quote come from? That can't be true.

[BOUGHTONII]

crude is a renueable resource, the earth produces it like you produce blood


we are running out is a great big lie. we use it to create profits for people in office.


or maybe it does come from dinosaurs.

[abudabit]

http://summerville-novascotia.com/AmericanMotors/1979_AMC_Pacer_Limited_Hatchback_Sport_Coupe.jpg

Fuck that we're all doomed! Live a little.

http://www.cars.com/features/mvp/cadillac/escalade/images/main_cadillac_escalade.jpg

You do realize there is a lot of space between a pacer and a fucking suv. Fuck SUV's, that's soccer mom shit. They found a way to make minivans 'cool' and thus created the SUV. You're not going off road. You're not fooling anyone. You live on Long Island. Get a car, city boy. Fuck the anti-gas aspect of the reasons not to get an suv; you are driving an off road minivan in the fucking city and you don't even have any kids.

It's a god damned minivan. All it has is some protective plates on the base, luggage racks on the roof which you will never use, and slightly different styling. It's a fucking minivan. Minivans aren't cool. Minivans aren't desirable. Minivans are things which you try to hide from your friends, but you can't because it's this big goofy bubble that sticks out like a sore thumb. Put it in your garage, they'll see the top from those little windows on the garage door.

[Southern Fried Pest]

Are you really crying about fighting the 'man'?

Yeah, the oil company execs are making fucktons of money... so are a lot of other people. You need to get to a place where you can make enough not to give a shit. If this bothers you, you don't make enough.
fuck, I make $6.25 an hour in a shithole factory and don't give a shit

[Bill]

"Premium is recommended for optimum performance" is not the same thing as "premium is required".

If a lambo will run on regular pump gas, so will whatever you've got.

Except, when the computer in many cars adjusts for lower octane and performance is no longer optimum, mpg will often be decreased. One of my co-workers tried this and found that her mileage decreased by a greater percentage than the increased cost of premium gas. Therefore, she ended up spending more money using regular gas than she did on premium because she had to fill up more often.

[Bill]

Let me Revert Back to a post I made on September 9th 2005



That's total dollars and not margin.

10 Widgits bought for $2.00 marked up 10% to $2.20 = 10% Profit Margin $2.00 Profit

10 Widgits bought for $3.00 marked up 10% to $3.30 = 10% Profit Margin $3.00 Profit.


Voila! Record Profits. Which do you suggest? They should sell less to keep profits in check thereby creating long lines and shortages or should they reduce their margin and have all their shareholders sell off their stock dropping their share price to .10 Cents?





PS Anyone who doesn't get the revert back reference don't try correcting my grammar.

Your math assumes that the oil companies haven't increased their profit margin. That's not the case. According to the American Petrolium Institute (http://api-ec.api.org/filelibrary/4QTR-earnings-vs-all-industry.pdf) (which I found via a link from Conoco Phillips website (http://www.conocophillips.com/newsroom/other_resources/energyanswers/oil_profits.htm)), the average profit margin for Oil & Natural Gas companies from 2001-2005 was 5.9% (as compared with an average of 5.6% for all other US industry). However, in 2005, the profit margin for Oil & Natural Gas companies was 8.5% (as compared with 7.7% for other industries), with a profit margin of 8.9% in the 4th quarter of 2005 (as compared with a 6.3% for other industries). Keep in mind that the 5.9% average is inflated by the 2005 numbers. If the previous 4 years were averaged, that number would be lower.

So, while the oil companies have been experiencing record profits in term of dollars, they have also been experiencing record profits in terms of profit margin. Not only are they making more money, they are price gouging while doing so.

[duGandfriends]

fuck the mannnnn mannnnn. ive got my ear to the ground for a small deisel pick up truck either a nissan or toyota from the late 70-80's with a 4cyl deisel motor that i can convert to run on fry oil. bio deisel is the wave of the future. i would love to convert my house to run on it also if i could, dont get me wrong i own 3 V8's and a bmw that loves hightest, i am quite the motor head. but for every day back and forth to work driveing i hate getting 10mpg


what about the car smelling like Peauts?

The Paris World Exposition was soon to arrive and time was running out for Diesel. The prototype engine, along with several hundred gallons of peanut oil was shipped to Paris, installed, and to make a long story short, flabbergasted the crowds. Many people commented they wandered into the area displaying Diesel's engine running because they thought it was a food pavilion (due to the smell of burned peanut oil).

http://www.allpar.com/ed/biodiesel.html

[abudabit]

So, while the oil companies have been experiencing record profits in term of dollars, they have also been experiencing record profits in terms of profit margin. Not only are they making more money, they are price gouging while doing so.

Good for them, exploiting people willing to be exploited. It's been well known for the past decade that gas prices are going to be going up, and they advertise thier prices before you purchase them, so they aren't exactly running a con game here. We get what we deserve. Between 2000 and 2004 consumption in the US decreased a very small percentage.

And just think about this, if we aren't willing to reduce consumption even 3% when prices double imagine what we would have done (and how we would have panicked) if Kyoto passed. If prices hit $6 a gallon though maybe we can reach the Kyoto goals...

[thebtskink]

SUPPLY AND DEMAND, YOU MAROON!:action-sm

[PCLoadLetter]

fuck hybrids as well. get a diesel jetta. sure it may not be as environmentally friendly, but i get 45-50 miles a gallon. i drive 500 miles a week on one tank of gas. diesel is cheaper than regular right now. i spend about $36.00 a week and use far less gas than any 4-cylinder gasoline engine. i'm sticking it to the man without compromising my on-the-go, jetsetting lifestyle. that last statement is meant to give a douche chill.
So, how much more did you spend on that excellent diesel-burner than you would've on an equivalently-equipped gas-powered Jetta?

I'll help you out here. You spent THOUSANDS more. It'll take YEARS to repay the investment you made in that diesel technology. The only "man" you're sticking it to is the oil companies, sort of, and "the man" in the form of the Volkswagen Motor Company is sticking it to YOU.

The douche chill you feel is the one that eats away at your checkbook in the form of a car payment.

Enjoy, stupid! :action-sm

[Devil Man]

SUPPLY AND DEMAND, YOU MAROON!:action-sm
:clap: :clap: :clap:

You know, it's not like ExxonMobil, BP, etc. are all gathering around and conspiring on the price.

If gold goes up to $2,000 an ounce, are you going to stop buying jewelry?

[robinquivers]

for gas prices being as "bad as they are" I sure as fuck don't see any fewer cars on the road...
No kidding, traffic seems to be getting worse. And the gas prices arent keeping people from going away on the weekends either. Toll booths in NH are backed up for miles on Friday nights and Sunday afternoons

[Bill]

SUPPLY AND DEMAND, YOU MAROON!:action-sm


This has nothing to do with supply & demand. The supply still exceeds the demand. Supply & demand was a valid point when Katrina hit. It is also a valid point with the closed pipeline in Alaska. But, except for those two occurrences, there is no shortage of oil supply that should raise the price of oil except in relation to the cost of crude oil.

There was a valid reason why the profit of oil companies increased. There wasn't a valid reason why the profit margins of oil companies increased.

[Bill]

You know, it's not like ExxonMobil, BP, etc. are all gathering around and conspiring on the price.


With all of the mergers that have been allowed over the last few years, there aren't too many companies that need to get together to conspire on prices anymore.


If gold goes up to $2,000 an ounce, are you going to stop buying jewelry?

Yes. Unfortunately, that's not an option with oil based products.

[SpamChunks]

So, how much more did you spend on that excellent diesel-burner than you would've on an equivalently-equipped gas-powered Jetta?

I'll help you out here. You spent THOUSANDS more. It'll take YEARS to repay the investment you made in that diesel technology. The only "man" you're sticking it to is the oil companies, sort of, and "the man" in the form of the Volkswagen Motor Company is sticking it to YOU.

The douche chill you feel is the one that eats away at your checkbook in the form of a car payment.

Enjoy, stupid! :action-sm

one thing about diesel technology is that it is more efficient than a gasoline powered engine, so it tends to last longer, and maintain its efficancy. basically with a diesel you will still be getting 40 mpg with two hundred thousand plus miles on it, where as a gas engine you will lose some of your mpg as it get more use. i had an 83 mecercedes diesel with like 280k and got 45 on the highway. so long term diesel is better.

[abudabit]

There was a valid reason why the profit of oil companies increased. There wasn't a valid reason why the profit margins of oil companies increased.

Yeah there is: dummies keep buying gas at the same rate as always. There's your valid reason. It's not collusion by the oil companies, they don't have to collude. The gas buying public doesn't conserve, thier demand isn't attached to the price at all. Of course prices will go up.

But supply and demand is a big part of the price rises, just not the only part.

On top of the oil companies taking more and the supply and demand stuff, you also have higher supply costs, higher supplier country taxes, more regulations, 'incidents' like this bp thing, and refineries going out of commission. There are a lot of reasons why gas prices go up, but most of them wouldn't be a huge factor if we conserved.

[PCLoadLetter]

so long term diesel is better.
If you intend to keep a car for 100k miles, a diesel will definitely pay for itself.

BTW, shenannigans on 45mpg with that car.

[icepick3383]

I love the people who are suggesting to "just find a job closer to where they live"...HA! yeah, and while you're at it, can I have my own personal monkey butler and flying car?

if new gigs were that easy to get, i'd think about it, but switching jobs like that ain't exactly easy!

[IRISHJERICHO]

What about all the gas huffers out there what about me I mean them.

[anasspiss]

People are too fucking stupid in general to know when they are getting fucked, so why should this be any different.

As long as people are willing to pay, the higher the price will get.


________________________________
9/11/01 You are not forgotten. :action-sm
http://www.olivetreeviews.org/topics/movies/attack.html

"Fight organized crime, abolish ISLAM":icon_eek:

[Bill]

Yeah there is: dummies keep buying gas at the same rate as always. There's your valid reason. It's not collusion by the oil companies, they don't have to collude. The gas buying public doesn't conserve, thier demand isn't attached to the price at all. Of course prices will go up.


But that hasn't changed the ratio of supply vs demand. It's when the supply side or the demand side changes disproportionately with the other, that supply and demand drives a change in price.


On top of the oil companies taking more and the supply and demand stuff, you also have higher supply costs, higher supplier country taxes, more regulations, 'incidents' like this bp thing, and refineries going out of commission. There are a lot of reasons why gas prices go up, but most of them wouldn't be a huge factor if we conserved.

Right. That was my point. Prices should be rising proportionately with increased costs. That gives the oil companies greater profits at a dollar level, while their profit margin remains consistent. There's nothing wrong with that.

What's happening is the the oil companies are raising prices at a rate disproportionately with increased costs and generating an increased profit margin.

$2 price, with built in 6% profit margin = $.12 per gallon profit
$3 price, with built in 6% profit margin = $.18 per gallon priofit (no problem)
$3 price, with built in 10% profit margin = $.30 per gallon profit (gouging)

[HummerTuesdays]

Right. That was my point. Prices should be rising proportionately with increased costs.

Why? If you had a product that a lot of people used, wouldn't you charge as much as you possibly could, to make as much profit as you could? Last time I checked this was a capitalist country, and the government doesn't control the petro companies. I'm not saying they don't have their hands in each others pockets, but these companies have every right to their profits. If you don't like it, figure out ways to use less of it. There have been plenty of ideas given in the threads, and I'm sure you'll get even more if you google " get a better mpg."

:arrrh:

[BCH]

Why? If you had a product that a lot of people used, wouldn't you charge as much as you possibly could, to make as much profit as you could? Last time I checked this was a capitalist country, and the government doesn't control the petro companies. I'm not saying they don't have their hands in each others pockets, but these companies have every right to their profits. If you don't like it, figure out ways to use less of it. There have been plenty of ideas given in the threads, and I'm sure you'll get even more if you google " get a better mpg."

:arrrh:

:) Remind me to give you a big ol' hug at the PNC show OK? :)

[Bill]

Why? If you had a product that a lot of people used, wouldn't you charge as much as you possibly could, to make as much profit as you could? Last time I checked this was a capitalist country, and the government doesn't control the petro companies.


But the government gives these companies all kinds of tax breaks and have allowed mergers, which probably shouldn't have been allowed on anti-trust grounds, with the understanding that these companies wouldn't take unfair advantage of their nearly monopolistic statuses.

Increasing profit margins by 50% is taking unfair advantage of that status. Overall, it hurts nearly everyone. Increased fuel costs affect everything that we buy, not just the cost of heating and personal transportation.


If you don't like it, figure out ways to use less of it. There have been plenty of ideas given in the threads, and I'm sure you'll get even more if you google " get a better mpg."


That's already been done. I'm driving a 2003 Civic Hybrid. Not only is the mileage great, but I'm allowed to drive in the LIE HOV lane with nobody else in the car. So, not only am I using less gas, but during rush hour, I have one of the fastest cars on the road.

But, like I said earlier, it's not just the cost of gas (or heating oil), but the cost of everything that we buy that is indirectly affected by the cost of oil.

[HummerTuesdays]

Then write to the government and vote for elected officials that will end the tax breaks. They won't hear you if you don't voice your opinion. Maybe that will cut into the profits enough to satisfy you, meanwhile gas will still be at $3/gal.

As for the price of everything else rising? I don't like it but I can't exactly complain. I believe that the majority of us are guilty of over-consumption, and have become a disposable society. Maybe with higher prices we won't be as wasteful. I certainly have changed my spending habits. I'm not nearly as frugal as I wish to be, but I'm evaluating more of my spending habits and cutting out some of the "extras."

[D.H. Jenkins]

Yeah there is: dummies keep buying gas at the same rate as always...

What's the alternative? Steal it? Tell your boss "I can't come into work because gas is too much"? People don't have a choice. The majority of Americans do not have the means to purchase a more fuel efficent automobile, and even if they could there isn't enough fuel efficent cars to go around (don't people have to wait a year for a hybrid?).

You live in Austin, so you're obviously aware that not every city has efficient public transportation. You're also familiar with urban sprawl, so you know that for some people there's no avoiding a 20 minute car ride to get to a grocery store. And do I even need to mention the traffic in your lovely town? Are YOU going to shut your car off in 100 degree Texas weather while you're deadlocked?

As far as this being a capitalist country, it is, but that doesn't mean you can fix prices, which is why other energy sources are still under government regulation (gasonline prices were deregulated around 1980).

You can directly compare whats going on with gasoline prices to utility/energy prices. The energy companies have convinced millions of Americans that energy deregulation will mean lower prices to consumers through competition. Ask people in California how that worked out. Ask people in Dallas or Houston how they like paying up to 50% more than they did prior to deregulation. Now ask people in San Antonio (where energy is still regulated) how they like paying the same rate they were paying when everyone else deregulated... I'll tell you - I love it.

[Jimmymakesmewet]

fuck hybrids as well. get a diesel jetta. sure it may not be as environmentally friendly, but i get 45-50 miles a gallon. i drive 500 miles a week on one tank of gas. diesel is cheaper than regular right now. i spend about $36.00 a week and use far less gas than any 4-cylinder gasoline engine. i'm sticking it to the man without compromising my on-the-go, jetsetting lifestyle. that last statement is meant to give a douche chill.


YUP. Love my little Jetta.

Wish I could go buy a truck, but I've got better things to d owith my money than spending 300/month on gas.

[abudabit]

But that hasn't changed the ratio of supply vs demand. It's when the supply side or the demand side changes disproportionately with the other, that supply and demand drives a change in price.

Well actually that has changed the ratio of supply vs demand. But that isn't the reason why it has such a significant effect:

If you raise prices on a product, and people keep buying your product at the same rate, there is no reason NOT to raise prices. If you raise prices on a product, and people reduce purchasing of your product, there is a reason to stop raising prices.

On top of which, if people reduced buying the product and only bought from the cheapest sources prices would decrease.

And I saw you post multiple times that 'gas is something we have to buy', well the response to that is we don't need half the gas we buy. If you look at our per capita consumption we have the highest in the world, Switzerlands is 1/3rd ours if I remember correctly (although don't quote me on that).

Come on lefty, support convservationism like you're supposed to. That's what complaining about the oil companies was all about in the first place, now the oil companies are helping conservationism and you're trashing them instead of the American public who are resisting conservationism. You're on the same side as the SUV drivers in this thread.

[abudabit]

nd even if they could there isn't enough fuel efficent cars to go around (don't people have to wait a year for a hybrid?).

You live in Austin, so you're obviously aware that not every city has efficient public transportation. You're also familiar with urban sprawl, so you know that for some people there's no avoiding a 20 minute car ride to get to a grocery store. And do I even need to mention the traffic in your lovely town? Are YOU going to shut your car off in 100 degree Texas weather while you're deadlocked?

I spend 10 minutes driving to work, I know of no place that isn't more than 5 minutes from a grocery store, there are plenty of 30 mpg cars, and I don't even have AC in my shitty car but I'm pretty used to Texas weather after a year here. I wouldn't be caught dead with a daily commute through 35 / 1 traffic. You can't possibly be suggesting that you don't know a way to reduce your consumption by 10%, I reduced my gas consumption recently quite a lot just by switching gyms and the bank branch I go to.

I don't know what my car gets now, but it sucks shit as far as efficiency goes. If I had a Prius I would be spending well under $50 a month on gas, but for now I will settle for the around $100 a month I use. Yes I'm an extreme case, over the course of the past 2 years I reduced my consumption to possibly 1/5th of what it was. But you can't even reduce yours 10%?

Our country uses 1/4th the gas of the world, but is 1/20th the population. We have some of the most advanced technology in the world. You're telling me you can't reduce your consumption 10%? It doesn't take buying a fag car to do that.

[Bill]

And I saw you post multiple times that 'gas is something we have to buy', well the response to that is we don't need half the gas we buy. If you look at our per capita consumption we have the highest in the world, Switzerlands is 1/3rd ours if I remember correctly (although don't quote me on that).


That's because the infrastructure of countries like Switzerland are setup to accomodate public transportation and bicycles much better than the infrastructure of the US. Most people in the US can't get to a local food store without driving. While in European countries, nearly everyone can get to a food store by bike or convenient public transportation.


Come on lefty, support convservationism like you're supposed to. That's what complaining about the oil companies was all about in the first place, now the oil companies are helping conservationism and you're trashing them instead of the American public who are resisting conservationism. You're on the same side as the SUV drivers in this thread.

I'm all for conservation. If you see my above post, you'll see that I'm already driving a hybrid (which gets more than 3x the mpg that the SUV that it replaced did). However, if conservation is going to take place due to artificially higher prices, I'd much rather see that increased money be in the form of taxes that would be directly earmarked for the funding of programs to develop alternative energy vehicles, than going into the pocket of oil companies. Conservation alone just allows us to use oil longer. It doesn't do anything to reduce our dependancy on it. The funding of the development of future technologies, will allow us to have something to switch to. The day that we no longer need oil for transportation or heating, is the same day the the middle east can become a place where we no longer have to kiss the asses of "royalty" that is more our enemy than our ally.

[WetChicken]

No kidding, traffic seems to be getting worse. And the gas prices arent keeping people from going away on the weekends either. Toll booths in NH are backed up for miles on Friday nights and Sunday afternoons
That's because their corrupt state isn't good enough for them, so they have to come up here where we have values (but still don't care to learn them).


My 2002 Yukon gets 16-17 on average, so I did the responsible thing and bought a vehicle with better mileage since I have a 38 mile commute. Now I am suffering with a 1998 Camaro with an LS1 (http://www.wackbag.com/showthread.php?p=1140459#post1140459) (~400hp), and it gets about 23 MPG. It really sucks that I have to blow the ricers off the road now. :icon_cry:
I would love to have a TDI, but the 110lb Shepherd/St. Bernard and 90lb Rottie don't fit into the trunk with the dead hookers.

[DonTheTrucker]

Boo fucking hoo....evil oil companies selling their oil to the highest bidder. Boo fucking hoo....Chinese and Indians are using more oil so we have to pay more.

If you don't like it, go build a fucking refinery and oil well. Or buy a car with less mileage. Don't go blaming people for making a living, buy some stock in the oil company and use your profits to buy fucking gas.

The smart thing to do of course is to buy a vehicle that matches your needs. If you need a big truck, buy it and pay the price. If you want a truck but only "need" a small car, buy the car.

The future of vehicles is probably diesel for the short term. Hybrids are nice but they're too expensive and the benefits aren't enough to make up the difference.

I drive a 10 year old Toyota Tercel with 270,000 miles on it and it runs like the day it came off the showroom floor. Too bad it's not a diesel, but the 28-30 mpg i get isnt bad.

Too bad the only diesels available now are horribly unreliable Volkswagens and horribly expensive Mercedes Benzes.

[D.H. Jenkins]

Do you guys really think that a <10% increase in demand warrants almost a 100% increase in price?

[DonTheTrucker]

Do you guys really think that a <10% increase in demand warrants almost a 100% increase in price?

If they can get that much, yes. What would you have done? Price capping by the government? Say you're Mr. Oil Executive and you can't make 5 cents profit capped by the governement, and China offers you 10 cents. Your JOB is to make money for your shareholders. They will fire you if you don't make money.

It sucks, but there are only two answers to this problem. Conservation and more production. One or the other will not work. Both must be equal and we'll be fine.

[whoisisthis]

you douchebags preaching fuel conservation are delusional




there is an alternate reality to your short, daily commute, in some shitty little death trap. That being, the owner of construction company who did fine up until this gas shit started getting out of control. Tell him that he needs to either "stop accelerating so fast, or stfu"

What advice would you offer him? That he picked the wrong venture? That his diesel work trucks are stupid and unessesary because you drive a Miata, and get 40MPG? We're not just talking about stupid suburbanites crying as they fill their Range Rover's, we're talking about blue collar people getting fucking killed cause of these prices. I see it every day.

This scenario applies to many; farmers, towing co's, ect. Stop being so fucking retarded and realise that not everyone can drive little go carts to/at work.




and another thing... I don't really bitch about gas prices, I never even look at the signs. But for someone to say that people shouldn't bitch about gas prices, is fucking ponderous. People bitch when prices spike. Shut up.

[HummerTuesdays]

I'I'd much rather see that increased money be in the form of taxes that would be directly earmarked for the funding of programs to develop alternative energy vehicles, than going into the pocket of oil companies.

Taxes are NOT the fucking answer. Hybrids are selling well, and that alone should be enough incentive for car makers to invest in R&D for alternative fuels, higher fuel efficiency combustion engines, and hybrids.

For the person that said that they can't get to a supermarket without driving, you can blame big-box retailers for that. The little mom & pop grocery is no longer in town. (Yes, this is a gross assumption & exaggeration, but it is something to think about.) I can't walk to the local supermarket (the hills are killer here), but it is on my way home from work. So it would make more sense to do my shopping on a weeknight instead of having to go out on a Saturday or Sunday. Those little trips add up, and if you can consolidate them or elimiate them, why wouldn't you?

Whoisisthis, yes I do understand that people NEED to drive big trucks for a living. But they don't need to be driving at 85 mph down the Parkway and thereby getting horrendous gas milage. They are the first to bitch about gas prices. They should leave a little earlier, drive a little slower, drive smarter.

[Bill]

Taxes are NOT the fucking answer. Hybrids are selling well, and that alone should be enough incentive for car makers to invest in R&D for alternative fuels, higher fuel efficiency combustion engines, and hybrids.


I haven't advocated extra taxes. Arguing against abudabit's point that the oil companies were doing us a favor by charging more money because it causes people to conserve, I said that I would rather see the money that is now being charged above the normal profit margin for oil companies to be collected as taxes, to help fund R&D, rather than going to the oil companies. I'm not advocating charging more, I'm advocating routing some of what we are being charged to a project that will hopefully fix the problem.

Hybrids are selling well because of tax incentives that are given for purchasing them. Tax relief vs taxes charged are not dissimilar things.

But hybrids are not the answer. They are a bridge to the next technology. That next technology could be hydrogen. It could be electric. It could be solar or even a combination of multiple technologies. But all of them will require huge changes to infrastructure. Losses due to those infrastructure changes will be huge at the beginning, which could cause companies to stay away.

This is the type of project that screams for government assistance. I see this one being very similar to the development of the interstate highway system. But if there is going to be government assistance, that needs to be paid for somehow. Why not by the people who actually use the roads?

[WetChicken]

Ok, to help this situation, I don't think it would hurt for the government to step in, but I will assume that Bush doesn't want to hurt his net worth. So much for our president watching for his people.
I would love to see the fuel industry be regulated, or have taxed profits- but that will be a long drawn out battle since our government is spineless and the oil companies will scream discrimination.

I am still trying to figure out what the difference is between the gas going to $3 last year and gas going to $3 this year.Oh- that's right, greed.

[whoisisthis]

Whoisisthis, yes I do understand that people NEED to drive big trucks for a living. But they don't need to be driving at 85 mph down the Parkway and thereby getting horrendous gas milage. They are the first to bitch about gas prices. They should leave a little earlier, drive a little slower, drive smarter.

so wait...


are you and Abudabit(AKA Mathew Lesko) just assuming that everyone complaining drives like assholes? Cause I can't find anyone in these threads bragging about punching it every chance they get.

And like I said, people bitch when prices spike. I'd bitch even if I drove one of those gay little hybrids. And just cause someone drives fast, it doesn't justify this shit

[HummerTuesdays]

so wait...


are you and Abudabit(AKA Mathew Lesko) just assuming that everyone complaining drives like assholes? Cause I can't find anyone in these threads bragging about punching it every chance they get.

And like I said, people bitch when prices spike. I'd bitch even if I drove one of those gay little hybrids. And just cause someone drives fast, it doesn't justify this shit

I haven't seen the wackbaggers drive, so I don't know. But there have been a couple that have said that they speed (fmeinthea, for one). IMO, they have no right to complain. Generally speaking, I am tired of the bitching of gas prices and seeing just as many, if not more, SUVs on the road, and flying by me doing at least 85, which we all know kills fuel efficiency. If you read the thread, many suggestions for consuming less gas were "poo poo'd" because they were unreasonable. So, at what price per gallon do those "unreasonable" suggestions become reasonable?

I'll ask again...if you have the opportunity to conserve, why wouldn't you?

[Bill]

And like I said, people bitch when prices spike. I'd bitch even if I drove one of those gay little hybrids.


To be fair, Matt & Trey were kinda right when they did their Hybrid episode on South Park. When you're driving a hybrid and pull up to the pump and fill up while watching soccer mom's put $100 of gas into the Expedition with a single child seat in back, you do get a little smug. I don't say anything and try to suppress the smile on my face. But if those soccer mom's knew what I was thinking, they'd come over and kick me in the balls.

As far as conserving goes, I've found with my hybrid that the easiest thing that I can do to increase my mileage is to keep my tires fully inflated to the tire manufacturer's specification, not the car manufacturer's specification. Car manufacturer's usually recommend that tires be a little underinflated because it makes the car ride smoother. With gas over $3.00 per gallon, I'll take a little rougher ride in exchange for another 4 miles per gallon. That's the equivalent of getting a free gallon of gas every time I fill up.

[VersionX]

I drive a car that gets at least relatively good mileage (just under 30 MPG), and still the prices affect me. I try to minimize my driving now as much as possible and a good deal of my income this summer has gone simply to transportation costs.

Enough bitching though, because this isn't about that. This is more a lack of understanding as to when it became acceptable to fuck consumers in the ass just to make some money. Granted, it may be a great deal of money, but they've created an equally sizeable amount of animosity from their consumers. If there is such a surplus, why are the prices jumping as they have been?

Of course that's based on oil companies simply making a bigger profit margin. However, they've opened the door for a lot of problems for themselves down the road. When gas prices were reasonable, hybrids were barely even a thought. Now they're become all the rage for those in the market for a new car. With this opening, companies have learned there's a huge market for these gas-saving vehicles and will start pouring funds (which SHOULD be matched by similar government funding, although that won't happen with the Oil Administration in office) into R&D for alternative means of fuel. Once that happens, the market will continue to diminish for oil and then wait til you see gas prices drop.

They're doing this to us for no other reason than they can. Once hybrid technology becomes cheaper and thus more widely available, oil companies won't be able to be such cocky pricks anymore.

That is, of course, the oil companies don't financially persuade the car manufacturers to steer clear of funding R&D for alternative fuel sources, which I think is what will most likely occur. In that case, the government NEEDS to step in, or we're going to be subject to this price gouging for a long fucking time.

[abudabit]

Conservation alone just allows us to use oil longer. It doesn't do anything to reduce our dependancy on it.

If you use 1/3rd the gas, you are 1/3rd as dependant on it. It absolutely reduces dependancy. It doesn't make us completely clear of dependancy, but I'd rather be on a $10 a day drug habit than a $30 a day drug habit. Now using about 35 gallons of gas a month I feel a lot less dependent than some guy using 120 gallons. Hell, this 'gas price crisis' is barely touching me.

[abudabit]

Enough bitching though, because this isn't about that. This is more a lack of understanding as to when it became acceptable to fuck consumers in the ass just to make some money.


Umm... about 50,000 BC I do believe. Ask Anthony, he was there.

[wes mantooth]

I have a 6.0 V8 Chevy 2500 HD and I love it. It is a bitch to park. I was watching CNN last night and one of the oil tycoon said about the Alaska oil, "we have a good sized surplus right now so we don't need the oil from Alaska". What the fuck? Isn't the excuse for jacking oil prices for the last 2 years been that there is an oil shortage in the US and now he came out and said that?

There's a shortage of oil refining capacity not oil. There hasn't been an oil refinery built in the US since the late 70's due to environmental regulations. A large amount of the refineries in the US are located in the Gulf states regions. That's why there's a huge run-up in oil prices whenever a hurricane is in the gulf (ex. Katrina). Now people want to increase refining capacity but no one wants it in their backyard. That's why you don't see refineries near any port on the Atlantic or Pacific coasts. So we will probably continue to build them in the same concentrated area so our energy supply will be continue to be vulnerable to natural disasters/terrorist attacks.

[VersionX]

Umm... about 50,000 BC I do believe. Ask Anthony, he was there.

By acceptable I meant without anything being done about it. We all know consumer **** happens on a daily basis, but when it touches this many people'e lives and still NOTHING happens about it, it makes you wonder if there's any regard for the consumer at all, on any side.

[Bill]

If you use 1/3rd the gas, you are 1/3rd as dependant on it. It absolutely reduces dependancy.

Not necessarily. If I reduce my dependency on oil by by 1/3 by super insulating my house and getting a car with better gas mileage, I don't need as much oil or gas, but I'm still 100% dependant on oil and gas to heat my house and drive my car. If there is no oil or gas, I have a cold house and can't drive anywhere.

On the other hand, if I were to reduce my dependency on oil by 1/3 by putting solar panels on my house and supplementing my oil heating equipment with electric heating equipment and getting a plug in hybrid car that will allow me to make 1/3 of my trips using electricity only, then I would have reduced my dependency on oil by 1/3 because there would be an alternative fuel option for heating my house and transportation.

[Bill]

There's a shortage of oil refining capacity not oil. There hasn't been an oil refinery built in the US since the late 70's due to environmental regulations.


There are actually fewer refineries since the 70's. But that's not due to environmental regulations. That's due to smart business by the oil companies. In the last 30 years oil companies have voluntarily closed refineries and have not attempted to build any new ones. It has nothing to do with environmental regulations and 100% due to good business practices. I'm not saying that the environmentalists wouldn't have a problem with new refineries if someone tried to build one. I'm just saying that the oil companies haven't even tried to open a new one, so the environmentalists can't be blamed.

In the 70's the oil refineries were only running at about 70-75% capacity. That was a huge waste of money for the oil companies that ran those refineries. In order to be cost effective, refineries need to be running at 95%+ capacity.

So, in order to achieve that, oil companies closed some refineries and, as demand continued to increase, they retrofit existing refineries to handle that increased capacity. It's all a matter of refining oil at the lowest cost possible. Running 10 refineries at 95% capacity is much more cost effective than running 15 refineries at 65% capacity when you end up refining the same amount of oil in each scenario.

The point is that, if all environmental regulations went away, the oil companies wouldn't open any new refineries. I don't know this part as fact, but it might have the opposite effect. Reduced environmental regulations might actually allow the oil companies to refine more oil at the existing refineries, which would then allow them to close even more refineries.

The problem with this, as you pointed out, is that when a natural disaster hits, there is no immediate excess refining capacity. But it is the oil companies' responisbility to build extra refineries that they don't need 99.9% of the time in order to account for natural disasters? No. This is really the same situation as the Strategic Petroleum Reserve, where the federal government buys and stockpiles oil for situations where the flow of oil into the country is disrupted. In the same vein, the federal government should revive and retrofit a couple of the refineries, in different parts of the country, that the oil companies have already shut and keep them maintained in workable order. When a nautural disaster, such as Katrina hits, the government can then make those refineries avaialble to the oil companies at a cost



A large amount of the refineries in the US are located in the Gulf states regions.


That's true.


you don't see refineries near any port on the Atlantic or Pacific coasts.

That's not true. There are 21 oil refineries in California (http://www.gravmag.com/oil4.html) with a 2 million barrel per day refining capacity. The 4 refineries in New Jersey have a capacity of 660,000 barrels a day. Overall, there are refineries in 31 states in the US.

Refineries were built in the Gulf states because that was the most logical place for them to be built at the time. That spot contains the most central ports in the country for distribution purposes. If you build refineries on either of the coasts, then the oil being refined by that refinery better need to go to that particular coast. If you build a refinery in the Gulf Coast states, you really don't need to care where that oil is going to go once it's refined.

[HummerTuesdays]

By acceptable I meant without anything being done about it. We all know consumer **** happens on a daily basis, but when it touches this many people'e lives and still NOTHING happens about it, it makes you wonder if there's any regard for the consumer at all, on any side.

The other side of that coin is that as prices have gone up consumption has not decreased. The consumers are still using as much gas at $3/gal as they were at $2/gal. What incentive does the government have to step in and lower prices? What incentive do the oil companies have to lower prices? There is none, and I don't want the government price controlling.

We might not have as much disposable income, but I haven't read about any other businesses suffering. People are still going to the movies, still shopping, still going on vacation.

[Tree Killer]

The refinery by me clams to make 1 million dollars a day in gas sales! That doen't include sales of asfalt,propane,diesel,kerosene,butane and all convience store totals. Fuckin assholes The fuckin enviromentalist make the BIG truck engine makers, build a engine that burns cleaner but it burns more fuel. My old truck got 5-5.5 MPG the new is usally around 4.5 MPG. fuckin shit dicks.

[PCLoadLetter]

Not necessarily. If I reduce my dependency on oil by by 1/3 by super insulating my house and getting a car with better gas mileage, I don't need as much oil or gas, but I'm still 100% dependant on oil and gas to heat my house and drive my car. If there is no oil or gas, I have a cold house and can't drive anywhere.

On the other hand, if I were to reduce my dependency on oil by 1/3 by putting solar panels on my house and supplementing my oil heating equipment with electric heating equipment and getting a plug in hybrid car that will allow me to make 1/3 of my trips using electricity only, then I would have reduced my dependency on oil by 1/3 because there would be an alternative fuel option for heating my house and transportation.
And even then you aren't reducing your individual dependency on oil by a third. Think of those films from the oldern days like the one lampooning their genre in "Kentucky Fried Movie", 'Zinc Oxide and YOU'. Just look around the room you're sitting in right now and think about how many of those items use petroleum products in their manufacture.

The keyboard you're typing on, kitchen utensils, the interior of that car that saves all that gas, the bags you bring your groceries home in, the packaging for that new XM radio, the can that holds the gasoline for your lawnmower, the acrylic "glass" in that picture frame, your vacuum cleaner, the list goes on and on. Reducing your individual consumption of oil is great, but a 1/3 reduction in your consumption does not reduce your RELIANCE on petroleum products by a third.

[WetChicken]

Needless to say, needless to say, we are still getting fucked and can't do alot about it.