US H1-B visa cap hit on FIRST day.

[abudabit]

SAN FRANCISCO/WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Technology companies may face a shortage of skilled workers later this year after U.S. immigration services reached its annual quota for visa applications in one day.

"Clearly there is a need for science and engineering talent in this country that is not being met by home-grown talent," said William Morin, director of government affairs for Applied Materials Inc., the world's biggest supplier of equipment for making microchips.

"These are people who are going to develop the next big thing, and you're driving people offshore. It boggles the mind that we would come to this point," Morin said.

The Citizenship and Immigration Services received a record of more than 150,000 applications for the H-1B visa on Monday, nearly double the number of visas it can grant for the fiscal year beginning October 1, 2007.

Individuals cannot apply for the visa. The employer must apply or submit a petition on the worker's behalf. The visa is good for up to six years.

The government will grant 65,000 visas to those who hold the equivalent of an undergraduate degree and possess the technical expertise in a specialized field, such as engineering and computer programming. Another 20,000 visas will go to people with advanced academic degrees who have technical expertise.

CHOSEN BY LOTTERY

The agency will review the petitions to ensure that all applications are correct. After that, applications will be compiled, and individuals will be chosen by a computerized lottery system.

"It's a very fair process, so everyone who submitted their application has the same shot," Chris Rhatigan, a spokeswoman with the immigration agency said on Wednesday. "This process could take a couple of weeks, and then they will notify the individuals."

Rhatigan was unable to say how soon the visas would be issued due to the volume of applications received. Last year, the cap was reached at the end of May.

"What stronger signal could be sent for the need for immigration reform in the high-skills area than this?" Morin said.

Margie Jones, U.S. immigration manager at Intel Corp., the world's biggest maker of microchips, said, "Each year the cap has been reached earlier and earlier and earlier. By hitting it the first day, it means it is severely under-rated how many we need."

Intel employs about 90,000 people worldwide, and about 4 percent of the firm's U.S. workforce are foreigners with work visas, she said.

"If the cap is truly reached, that means there are no (visas) available until 10/1/08," Jones said. "It will impact hiring."

Applications can be resubmitted April 1, 2008 when H-1B visas become available for the following fiscal year.


This article is for all the people saying there aren't enough skilled / high paying jobs in the US. Things are getting nuts, US citizens just aren't training for the jobs that are out there and it's getting worse and worse. Everyone wants to be a sociology major.

[MrBogey]

This article is for all the people saying there aren't enough skilled / high paying jobs in the US. Things are getting nuts, US citizens just aren't training for the jobs that are out there and it's getting worse and worse. Everyone wants to be a sociology major.

Because it's relatively easy to get a Liberal Arts degree and then spend the next several years complaining how the US economy sucks since you can't do jack shit with a Art History degree.

[DanaReevesLungs]

Nurses....we need nurses. So I've read.

[abudabit]

Yep, nursing is the biggest unfilled job field. I work at an HR related company, it's nuts how desperate people are for nurses. Some nurses make more than doctors it's so bad.

[bethm1b]

What we really need here is pot dealers. you can't get a bag of weed anywhere. And I'm not buying from a NiGG er.

[Schmed]

All Dot head Oracle DBAs and Java developers.

[Schmed]

What we really need here is pot dealers. you can't get a bag of weed anywhere. And I'm not buying from a NiGG er.

Yeh, all they are good for is dirt weed "mersh".

[abudabit]

Mexicans are growing much better weed than they used to. I bought brick weed except it was a good strain and it was green. Brown brick prices, good old $50 for an o.

[TrybalRage]

Maybe Americans won't work for the amount that a foreigner will.

And an immigrant will work like a horse. We have an Iraqi guy in our office who is always there. He leaves for dinner, comes back, works till 11. Shows up at 6:30 AM for another day. It's crazy.

[Schmed]

Maybe Americans won't work for the amount that a foreigner will.

And an immigrant will work like a horse. We have an Iraqi guy in our office who is always there. He leaves for dinner, comes back, works till 11. Shows up at 6:30 AM for another day. It's crazy.

Where is he sending his earnings ?

[bethm1b]

Mexicans are growing much better weed than they used to. I bought brick weed except it was a good strain and it was green. Brown brick prices, good old $50 for an o.


Texas here I come!

[bethm1b]

Maybe Americans won't work for the amount that a foreigner will.

And an immigrant will work like a horse. We have an Iraqi guy in our office who is always there. He leaves for dinner, comes back, works till 11. Shows up at 6:30 AM for another day. It's crazy.


Americans can't work for what an immigrant works for because we wont live in a one bedroom shithole with 40 of our closest friends. Your contention is that we should sell out our countrymen to save a few bucks? That is the corporate mindset, but it's sending this country in a direction that will kill our economy.

[Three Hole Puncher]

Because it's relatively easy to get a Liberal Arts degree and then spend the next several years complaining how the US economy sucks since you can't do jack shit with a Art History degree. Holy shit... did you just nail the situation with my brother and sister.

My brother got some sort of English history degree with a minor in medieval folklore or somesuchshit. My sister started off with the intention of getting a hard science degree... Chemistry and Biology... some sort of pre-med, but the minute the going got tough she dropped down to the liberal arts bullshit. I think she finally ended up with some horseshit sociology degree.

15 years later... My brother has some state worker paper pusher job and bitches constantly about the horrible job market, and how he fears getting laid off at any moment. My sister works for the DMV and complains about the terrible state of the economy and lack of job opportunities. They both have crushing student loan debt.

I joined the Navy, got technical/electronics training... not a penny of student loans, and I haven't had a bit of trouble getting a job in the last fifteen years. I've held about 7 different jobs... gone from better to better jobs each time... haven't been unemployed at all. I've gotten jobs without interviewing... I faxed my resume to a company, and got a phone call telling me where to go the next day to start working... I did that twice. Yeah... it's a real jungle out there.

[VMS]

Americans can't work for what an immigrant works for because we wont live in a one bedroom shithole with 40 of our closest friends. Your contention is that we should sell out our countrymen to save a few bucks? That is the corporate mindset, but it's sending this country in a direction that will kill our economy.

HA! I think you're talking about the corporate mindset that BUILT this economy, beth.

The only thing scarier than people who don't have any kind of economics education are those who get their economics education from the London School of Economics school of thought. Like socialism works to generate wealth...

[weakside]

Interesting article.

This is a good lesson for anyone about to go to college. There is nothing wrong with a liberal arts degree...if you want to go into education. But I would suggest that instead of some "general" degree you study something that teaches you very specific skills. You may have to travel a bit after college but you will have the skills needed for your specific industry.

There are a ton of great jobs out there to be had, you just need the specific skills to get them.

[abudabit]

Americans can't work for what an immigrant works for because we wont live in a one bedroom shithole with 40 of our closest friends. Your contention is that we should sell out our countrymen to save a few bucks? That is the corporate mindset, but it's sending this country in a direction that will kill our economy.

Beth, you are COMPLETELY ignorant on this subject. The jobs H1-B's take up pay a TON of money. It costs $10k just to do the legal stuff to get an H1-B, it is expensive to recruit them, and there is a HUGE delay. On top of that training them is difficult. And then you are taking a huge risk because you've never seen this fellow actually work, you go through all that and he could be a shit head.

All you are doing is spouting the typical anti-corporate anti-foreigner reactionary ignorant Pat Buchanan producerist bullshit. When a corporation takes the DESPERATE step of bringing in a skilled worker from outside the country it is because they already spent the last half year trying to recruit someone inside the US. I KNOW this because I've both worked for tech companies which had to take this step AND because I am now working at an HR company where I see all the time companies spending 5 figures and months and months on end trying to fill positions which there just aren't people for.

That being said corporations are slightly at fault because when they create the reqs for jobs they usually have unrealistic expectations of skillsets. Often times they look for combinations which just don't exist. Usually there is a good reason for why they are unwilling to train. But that is just some companies and some positions. Most tech companies put their promising employees through more college if they have to.

[VMS]

All you are doing is spouting the typical anti-corporate anti-foreigner reactionary ignorant Pat Buchanan producerist bullshit.

The far, far right fucking hate corporations, and the middle-to-the-left fucking hate corporations. Which means corporations are fucked, which means WE'RE fucked. And after all those douches fuck over corporations, then they'll blame the corporations for fucking us, when it was the douches who fucked us.

Fuck.

[TrybalRage]

Americans can't work for what an immigrant works for because we wont live in a one bedroom shithole with 40 of our closest friends. Your contention is that we should sell out our countrymen to save a few bucks?

I never said that, but yes.

Immigrants work harder for less. Just a fact. Whether we should hire them is another topic.

But for the record, yes, we should sell out our countrymen. Americans as a rule are whiney lazy schlubs who want too much to do too little (i.e. unions).

Fuck 'em. A little workplace competition is healthy, IMO.

That is the corporate mindset, but it's sending this country in a direction that will kill our economy.

No one is killing the economy but us. Why the fuck do you think it will cost you $10,000 more for an American car than a Japanese car of better quality? American made products cost too much and are of shit quality, and that ain't the corporate mindset - that's because of the American worker.

[Hoagie]

That being said corporations are slightly at fault because when they create the reqs for jobs they usually have unrealistic expectations of skillsets. Often times they look for combinations which just don't exist. Usually there is a good reason for why they are unwilling to train. But that is just some companies and some positions. Most tech companies put their promising employees through more college if they have to.More then just slightly at fault. They spend tens of thousands on each immigrant that they bring into the country because they can't find people in this country that meet some inflated and unnecessary set of qualifications that usually includes schooling that requires and individual tens of thousands of dollars and years to complete. The truth is that people who are trained on the job are almost always better at the job then people trained in some far away classroom, usually by someone who has never done the job. And there are plenty of hard working, intelligent Americans that could fill these jobs but, rather then bringing them in and training the, they are relying on colleges to do it for them. Alot of people don't have a feeling for what they want to do or what they are good at when they are young and by the time they figure it out, it's too late to spend the kind of time and money it takes to get a qualifying degree. There are some industries out there, like the restaurant industry, that do not rely purely on schools to fill their work force. They train people and teach them and many of those people end up being great at their jobs. The tech industry will be much better off when they realize that they are passing up great workers because they may lack the opportunity to get the qualifying degrees but are still more then capable of doing the job very well.

[VMS]

More then just slightly at fault. They spend tens of thousands on each immigrant that they bring into the country because they can't find people in this country that meet some inflated and unnecessary set of qualifications that usually includes schooling that requires and individual tens of thousands of dollars and years to complete. The truth is that people who are trained on the job are almost always better at the job then people trained in some far away classroom, usually by someone who has never done the job. And there are plenty of hard working, intelligent Americans that could fill these jobs but, rather then bringing them in and training the, they are relying on colleges to do it for them. Alot of people don't have a feeling for what they want to do or what they are good at when they are young and by the time they figure it out, it's too late to spend the kind of time and money it takes to get a qualifying degree. There are some industries out there, like the restaurant industry, that do not rely purely on schools to fill their work force. They train people and teach them and many of those people end up being great at their jobs. The tech industry will be much better off when they realize that they are passing up great workers because they may lack the opportunity to get the qualifying degrees but are still more then capable of doing the job very well.

That makes some sense in the restaurant industry, but it just doesn't work for the tech world.

It takes, at most, a week to train an uneducated employee to do entry-level work in a restaurant. Food prep, washing dishes, whatever. Once someone's ON the job and a productive member of the team you can train them in more advanced labor in the dead times of which there is almost always plenty of in any restaurant.

If a restaurant worker quits, you typically have a couple of guys who can move up and take their spot, and all you're looking for is another dish washer or food prep guy. Not that big a deal.

What's a new fish going to learn in their first week at a tech job? C++ programming? HTML code? Even database entry is pushing it pretty hard. Now, if corporations had any kind of belief their employees would stay with the company, I don't think companies would have a big problem with bottom-up training of employees. That kind of investment makes sense. But tech training takes a LOT of time, a LOT of money, and a LOT of work on both the part of the employer who's putting you through the training and the employee going through the training.

Take a guy off the street, spend 4+ years training him to be a programmer, and then on the day he's certified have him leave for your competitor. You just lost thousands of dollars, thousands of labor hours, all so the other guy can make money off the knowledge you paid to put into his head. Worse, you just spent 4 years training him for an entry level position in your company: it'll take another 4 years to train another entry-level guy to replace him, and there's no guarantee the new guy will stick around any longer than the first guy did.

Would a guy with a tech school education be able to do the entry-level programming job as well as the guy with the 4-year college degree? Absolutely! But companies aren't just looking for entry-level programmers. They're also looking for promotable guys because the most desperately needed people are competent middle managers, and most tech companies are smart enough to want guys who actually know the technology to fill those jobs (Dilbert's pointy-headed boss isn't what companies want, but it's what they end up with more often than not because they don't have programmers they can promote).

I've got a good friend who just turned 30 and is a major projects manager with IBM now. There's no WAY he could have been promoted past the basic programmer level without a 4-year degree. IBM is DESPERATE for guys like him. He's got guys on his team that are twice his age and total humps. They sit there, they do their job halfheartedly, they go home. IBM doesn't want humps like that: humps like that hurt IBM.

[Jolie]

That being said corporations are slightly at fault because when they create the reqs for jobs they usually have unrealistic expectations of skillsets. Often times they look for combinations which just don't exist. Usually there is a good reason for why they are unwilling to train. But that is just some companies and some positions. Most tech companies put their promising employees through more college if they have to.

We find that the people who apply for our jobs are often people here on student visas, which it sounds like give the student a year to find a job after the end (or something like that - the guy on my team who we are trying to get his visa is here temporarily on his student visa, but isnt still in school). We need tech people, and it just so happens, the people we get resumes for are in this same position.

[Hoagie]

That makes some sense in the restaurant industry, but it just doesn't work for the tech world.

It takes, at most, a week to train an uneducated employee to do entry-level work in a restaurant. Food prep, washing dishes, whatever. Once someone's ON the job and a productive member of the team you can train them in more advanced labor in the dead times of which there is almost always plenty of in any restaurant.

If a restaurant worker quits, you typically have a couple of guys who can move up and take their spot, and all you're looking for is another dish washer or food prep guy. Not that big a deal.It's not quite as simple as that. There is a point where there is a lot very technical skills you need to learn as a cook. But alot of Executive Chefs go out of their way to set up their staff to keep advancing people's knowledge and skills.

What's a new fish going to learn in their first week at a tech job? C++ programming? HTML code? Even database entry is pushing it pretty hard.Most people won't even learn the basics of a job in a week. Of course it will take time. Hell even people taking an entry level position in my job take 2 months to get out on their own. Now, if corporations had any kind of belief their employees would stay with the company, I don't think companies would have a big problem with bottom-up training of employees. That kind of investment makes sense. But tech training takes a LOT of time, a LOT of money, and a LOT of work on both the part of the employer who's putting you through the training and the employee going through the training.If the corporations took better care of their employees they wouldn't have that problem. Many Japanese companies don't because they consider themselves to have as much of a commitment to their workforce as they expect their workforce to have to them. American companies take as much as they can while trying to give as little as possible.

Take a guy off the street, spend 4+ years training him to be a programmer, and then on the day he's certified have him leave for your competitor. You just lost thousands of dollars, thousands of labor hours, all so the other guy can make money off the knowledge you paid to put into his head. Worse, you just spent 4 years training him for an entry level position in your company: it'll take another 4 years to train another entry-level guy to replace him, and there's no guarantee the new guy will stick around any longer than the first guy did.And that's the kind of thinking that companies go with and why they find themselves in these positions. I'm willing to bet alot of these companies, if they were willing to be the least bit creative and do some real thinking, could set up a system. A system that, instead of training someone all at once like a school, you can break up the jobs so that people can be productive on different levels and advance as they learn more and more. So instead of 4 years of training and then they might move on or might not, you have 7 or 8 years of productive and gainful employment that culminates in working up to a top level and making a good living. It won't work in every company but I'm willing to bet it can be done in alot of them. It would just require som non-traditional thinking.

[Chino Kapone]

No one is killing the economy but us. Why the fuck do you think it will cost you $10,000 more for an American car than a Japanese car of better quality? American made products cost too much and are of shit quality, and that ain't the corporate mindset - that's because of the American worker.

i know someone said it in a previous thread, but a ton of toyota's are produced here in america.

what kills GM and Ford, in part is the unions and their own employees. often times it is cheaper to keep a lazy mother fucker on the job than it is to fire them.

[bethm1b]

I never said that, but yes.

Immigrants work harder for less. Just a fact. Whether we should hire them is another topic.

But for the record, yes, we should sell out our countrymen. Americans as a rule are whiney lazy schlubs who want too much to do too little (i.e. unions).

Fuck 'em. A little workplace competition is healthy, IMO.



.


What ghetto do you live in?

[Max Johnson]

Japanese employees are more loyal because that's part of their culture as it used to be part of ours. Nowadays you're supposed to switch jobs every few years if you work in an office. I didn't...I stayed instead and my friends that switched jobs more frequently all moved ahead financially. I finally shitcanned that profession and moved on.

Dilbert's boss has pointy hair. His head is actually rather round.

Detroit's problem is easily dismissed as union but the unions aren't designing the bland shitty cars nor are they engineering them so poorly.

How smart can these geeks be when gardeners can find a way to sneak in but they can't?

[MrBogey]

I'm lucky. I can pick up almost any technical skill with little effort. I'm generally a slacker so it works out well that I fell into a cushy job with excellent benefits and little risk of job loss. At worse I have to drive further to work.

[VMS]

It's not quite as simple as that. There is a point where there is a lot very technical skills you need to learn as a cook. But alot of Executive Chefs go out of their way to set up their staff to keep advancing people's knowledge and skills.

Sure, there is a point. But I'm not talking about cooking at Emeril's place: I'm talking about your local Sizzler because there are a HELL of a lot more Applebee's and Sizzler's jobs than there are Emeril jobs.

I'm IN the freaking restaurant industry! If it takes more than a week to train a dishwasher or a food prep guy, they're FIRED for being too dumb or too lazy to work. And yes, for non-"cuisine" restaurants it's DAMNED easy to train new people. You simply can't do that in a tech job.

Most people won't even learn the basics of a job in a week. Of course it will take time. Hell even people taking an entry level position in my job take 2 months to get out on their own.

You're making MY point: using the restaurant industry as your model on how tech sector businesses should train their people Does Not Work.

If the corporations took better care of their employees they wouldn't have that problem. Many Japanese companies don't because they consider themselves to have as much of a commitment to their workforce as they expect their workforce to have to them. American companies take as much as they can while trying to give as little as possible.

...and Japan's economy went into the hole in the 90s, while the US's bulled through. It's the way it works.

Japan doesn't have headhunters going around offering new, better-paying jobs to other companies' people. Japan promotes from within. Which sounds great, but also results in a very inward-thinking corporate culture. Japanese companies don't allow outside ideas as quickly and as readily as American companies.

It's why, for all that the Japanese do very well for themselves, they're NOT a creative society. They're very, very, very good at improving things, but they don't INVENT things.

American companies take VERY good care of their employees! They especially take very good care of employees they just raided from other companies, which is why even "stable" working Americans typically have something like 5-6 real jobs in their adult working lives.

It's the way the system's built. Don't like it? Start your own company and figure out a way to make it work the way you want it to.

And that's the kind of thinking that companies go with and why they find themselves in these positions. I'm willing to bet alot of these companies, if they were willing to be the least bit creative and do some real thinking, could set up a system. A system that, instead of training someone all at once like a school, you can break up the jobs so that people can be productive on different levels and advance as they learn more and more. So instead of 4 years of training and then they might move on or might not, you have 7 or 8 years of productive and gainful employment that culminates in working up to a top level and making a good living. It won't work in every company but I'm willing to bet it can be done in alot of them. It would just require som non-traditional thinking.

And why should corporations be in the education business? The American system works fine and dandy: it's why we've got all the $$, and the rest of the world ships us their restaurant-level cuisine so we can use it as dog food.

[VMS]

Japanese employees are more loyal because that's part of their culture as it used to be part of ours. Nowadays you're supposed to switch jobs every few years if you work in an office. I didn't...I stayed instead and my friends that switched jobs more frequently all moved ahead financially. I finally shitcanned that profession and moved on.

If you want to make more money, be willing to move. Sitting on your ass with the same job for the rest of your life, waiting for the 5-year raises, is bullshit and "Old Economy" thinking.

Dilbert's boss has pointy hair. His head is actually rather round.

My bad.

Detroit's problem is easily dismissed as union but the unions aren't designing the bland shitty cars nor are they engineering them so poorly.

No, they're not. On the other hand, the unions aren't LETTING the cars get designed to be more interesting. The unions have contracts with the suppliers, the sub-assembly plants, etc., etc. You design a bunch of cars without bumpers, and the bumper supplier's union employees lose their jobs, and YOUR union employees go on sympathy strikes for their bumper supplier brothers. And you're fucked, because you're trying to design more interesting cars.

Don't get me wrong: Detroit's upper management is filled with arrogant, stupid douchebags. But they're arrogant, stupid douchebags with one hand tied behind their backs.

How smart can these geeks be when gardeners can find a way to sneak in but they can't?

Because the tech geeks work jobs that require a Social Security card. Gardeners you can pay $40 in cash, and they walk away. Tech geeks own houses, drive cars, and need a Green Card to work a job.

[DonTheTrucker]

At least they're coming here to do the jobs. I'd rather a dot head living in Silicon Valley be my tech support guy than a dot head living in Bombay.

The dot head in San Jose still has to go to the local store to buy his fucking curry.

[Schmed]

If you want to make more money, be willing to move. Sitting on your ass with the same job for the rest of your life, waiting for the 5-year raises, is bullshit and "Old Economy" thinking.



My bad.



No, they're not. On the other hand, the unions aren't LETTING the cars get designed to be more interesting. The unions have contracts with the suppliers, the sub-assembly plants, etc., etc. You design a bunch of cars without bumpers, and the bumper supplier's union employees lose their jobs, and YOUR union employees go on sympathy strikes for their bumper supplier brothers. And you're fucked, because you're trying to design more interesting cars.

Don't get me wrong: Detroit's upper management is filled with arrogant, stupid douchebags. But they're arrogant, stupid douchebags with one hand tied behind their backs.



Because the tech geeks work jobs that require a Social Security card. Gardeners you can pay $40 in cash, and they walk away. Tech geeks own houses, drive cars, and need a Green Card to work a job.

Yeh, I made a big mistake myself, I opted for a cushy consulting gig at a 100/hr doing barely mid level DBA crap at a large spirits and wine company (Person that hired me had a difficult time working with anybody, and I was one of the few that was able to "tolerate" her), and it ended hurting me in the long run. Now I'm back to a F/T gig, working at a hedge fund. At the old job I had 2 weeks to do a task, they want same done at my new job in 2 hrs, and they require a much broader set of skills, fortunately, I can adapt well, fucking financial services is just so much more complicated than most industry's out there.