Shame on you XM and CBS

[patbattlefield]

"CONGRESS SHALL MAKE NO LAW RESPECTING AN ESTABLISHMENT OF RELIGION, OR PROHIBITING THE FREE EXERCISE THEREOF; OR ABRIDGING THE FREEDOM OF SPEECH, OR OF THE PRESS; OR THE RIGHT OF THE PEOPLE PEACEABLY TO ASSEMBLE, AND TO PETITION THE GOVERNMENT FOR A REDRESS OF GRIEVANCES." - First Amendment of the Constitution of the United States of America

“Censorship reflects a society’s lack of confidence in itself. It is a hallmark of an authoritarian regime . . . .” — Supreme Court Justice Potter Stewart, dissenting Ginzberg v. United States, 383 U.S. 463 (1966)


“First Amendment freedoms are most in danger when the government seeks to control thought or to justify its laws for that impermissible end. The right to think is the beginning of freedom, and speech must be protected from the government because speech is the beginning of thought.”—Supreme Court Justice Anthony M. Kennedy, Ashcroft V. Free Speech Coalition

“Men feared witches and burnt women. It is the function of speech to free men from the bondage of irrational fears.” — U.S. Supreme Court Justice Louis D. Brandeis (1856–1941), Whitney v. California, 274 U. S. 357 (1927)

You are right up there with the witch burners, the nazis, and the communists. Does appeasing the self-righteous media feel good at the expense of snuffing out freedom? Men died for us to have these rights and you let some geek with a blog take them away. Shame, shame, shame on you.

[OperationRetard]

i don't want to be a negative nelly, but do you notice all those quotes are in regards to the government.

O&A, imus, JV and elvis, none of these people are in trouble with the government. this isn't a freedom of speech issue.

[PeePs]

how is getting in trouble for something you said not a freedom of speech issue?

[cokelogic]

XM are fucking Pussies!

I want to say SHAME SHAME SHAME on XM for advertising uncensored radio and then saying there's a line crossed after a negative article shows up on drudge.

Where is the official statement saying O&A have job security? They are hurting the image of XM and uncensored radio, by re-acting the same as a FM station.

This is the beginning of a decline, no matter how much time it will take before XM is just as bad as FM, this is the start. Restricted talk and a line to not cross is the beginning of the end.

A homeless guy talking about giving the Secretary of State a good fucking is not a fireable offense, IMO.

[JoeyFromHB]

i don't want to be a negative nelly, but do you notice all those quotes are in regards to the government.

O&A, imus, JV and elvis, none of these people are in trouble with the government. this isn't a freedom of speech issue.

Right... so if the government, which we have all by tacit agreement decided is the supreme authority in the land, has absolutely no ability to abridge or censor a person's freedom of expression, why should special interest groups or corporations be allowed to try?

The point of the 1st Amendment is that society benefits from free and open discourse, and anyone or anything that attempts to circumvent that should not be tolerated. So while it is technically correct that getting in trouble with XM is not a freedom of speech issue, if the boys get fired for something they say, its definitely flys in the face of the purpose of the 1st Amendment.

[cokelogic]

how is getting in trouble for something you said not a freedom of speech issue?You're correct. I'm not sure where OperationRetard is coming from... he's wrong.

If XM puts their jobs in question because of what was broadcast, that's a freedom of speech issuse.

[The King of Roc]

It's a freedom of speech issue, but not a government censorship issue. The issue is more closely tied to free market capitalism, in that the special interest groups are exerting pressure on the producers of goods and services in their capacity as consumers. Special interest groups portray themselves as the only consumers of the product and corporations feel the need to bow to them to not decrease the market for corporate products. The best way to fight back would be to demonstrate that their is a larger market to consume the product than simply the special interests and those sympathetic to their cause.

[JoeyFromHB]

It's a freedom of speech issue, but not a government censorship issue. The issue is more closely tied to free market capitalism, in that the special interest groups are exerting pressure on the producers of goods and services in their capacity as consumers. Special interest groups portray themselves as the only consumers of the product and corporations feel the need to bow to them to not decrease the market for corporate products. The best way to fight back would be to demonstrate that their is a larger market to consume the product than simply the special interests and those sympathetic to their cause.

Exactly... sort of a "specal interest group" made up of people who's special interest is keeping the particular show that's being attacked on the air. This is where http://www.peopleagainstcensorship.org/ comes in.

[Baggity Bag]

how is getting in trouble for something you said not a freedom of speech issue?

Easy, it's not the government. You have the freedom to say what you want...however, there's no guarantee of being on the radio.

Would you say my freedom of speech is being abridged because they won't put me on the radio?

I still think XM and CBS are pussies for not letting them talk about what's going on and for not supporting them publicly. But freedom of speech?

[OperationRetard]

The point of the 1st Amendment is that society benefits from free and open discourse, and anyone or anything that attempts to circumvent that should not be tolerated.


the point of the first ammendmant is to keep the government from jailing you because they don't like what you're saying.

don't get me wrong, CBS and XM should both be ashamed of themselves the way they've behaved in all these situations. they're NOT right. but this is NOT a freedom of speech issue.

this is a commerce issue. CBS fired imus and JV and elvis because they thought keeping them would cost them money. if O&A get fired, it'll be for the same reason. the way to fight this is not to scream freedom of speech. you need to demonstrate that keeping them will NOT lose them money, or better yet that dropping them will COST them money. those writing letters to XM saying they'll dorp their subs if O&A go are doing the right thing.

if you work at wal-mart and you curse out a customer, are you gonna scream freedom of speech because you get fired for something you said? of course not. this is no different.

[RoleModel]

XM's main selling point is uncensored radio. By limiting O&A, and taking Black Phillip off the air, they're taking away that selling point.

Right now, they're better than the other satellite radio company - barely. If they continue to fuck with artists, they can no longer say that.

[Guilty Spark]

"We're Artists"-- Gregg Hughes, the actor who plays Opie (2006)

[UsedLadBag]

Easy, it's not the government. You have the freedom to say what you want...however, there's no guarantee of being on the radio.

Would you say my freedom of speech is being abridged because they won't put me on the radio?

I still think XM and CBS are pussies for not letting them talk about what's going on and for not supporting them publicly. But freedom of speech?

media matters was the force that got Imus kicked off the air, they are a liberal political action group, while Imus wasn't kicked off the air by the government per se, a political group did. It's a violation of free expression.

[JoeyFromHB]

the point of the first ammendmant is to keep the government from jailing you because they don't like what you're saying.



You're right... but again, the spirit behind the 1st amendment is that a society benefits when the individuals that constitute it are free to express themselves. The Liberal thinkers that founded this country (and I mean classical liberalism, not the douchefest that modern liberal thought has become) would be appalled that private citizens are trying to censor other private citizens. I don't think they ever envisioned a scenario where censorship would come from another source other than the government.

[UsedLadBag]

if you work at wal-mart and you curse out a customer, are you gonna scream freedom of speech because you get fired for something you said? of course not. this is no different.

How about if you curse at someone on the street and they call up Wal-Mart and you get fired, you think your 1st Ammendment rights haven't been violated? The right to free expression has to cover all speech.

[cokelogic]

Oh yeah, and SHAME on XM for pulling the Black Phillip Show this weekend.

Look forward to nothing entertaining for awhile.

[Chichomang]

Private entities can and do restrict speech. Government restricts speech too, but it isn't supposed to.

This sort of censorship is bullshit and I do not believe this is the sort of America our founding fathers intended, but it is clearly not a 1st amendment/civil rights issue. It is, at it's core, a matter of $$$.

[Frogacuda]

It's not a free speech issue in the sense that it's described constitutionally, but it is political correctness gone awry, and a bizarre double standard that only radio is held to. If stations and syndicates don't stand up, radio is doomed.

[IWanGoHome]

Okay, I have a thought here. I haven't seen anyone bring this up, but I apologize if it's been said before.

The apology was to, and was regarding comments made about public officials.

I'm not a lawyer, but couldn't the comments made be interpreted as far worse than they were because of the Patriot Act?

The definition of domestic terrorism in section 802 of the Patriot Act is so broad that maybe (however ridiculous) it could come under that heading, especially because the people being commented on were government officials.

Although no one from the show made the comments, the fact that they took place during their, show might make them responsible for them.

If this were true, I would imagine that an apology would absolutely be in order. I would. Who wouldn't?

That's a whole other can of worms that I would not want to open, especially if I did not make the comments in the first place.

I could be completely wrong here.

[Chichomang]

I could be completely wrong here.

Yeah.

[berniephyl]

if you work at wal-mart and you curse out a customer, are you gonna scream freedom of speech because you get fired for something you said? of course not. this is no different.


So are you saying Condelezza Rice is a customer of XM? Or that O&A shouldn't curse out XM Subscribers?

That argument makes no sense.

Their job isn't customer service, it is to Entertain, in this case, on a Premium Service.

[IWanGoHome]

Yeah.

So it doesn't apply? Are you sure?

[Chichomang]

Pretty sure.

[Legend of Snuka]

Private entities can and do restrict speech. Government restricts speech too, but it isn't supposed to.

This sort of censorship is bullshit and I do not believe this is the sort of America our founding fathers intended, but it is clearly not a 1st amendment/civil rights issue. It is, at it's core, a matter of $$$.


It's definetly a matter of money and don't forget fame/power....These special interests groups love when this kind of stuff happens...It gets there name in the paper, increases visibility, and ultimately generates more money for them...You think any of them really give a rats ass about what was said...No, they saw an opportunity and jumped on it. Al Sharpton was the same deal...You think he really cared about the Rutgers basketball team?

Journalists and bloggers are the same thing...Hey this is a hot topic, let me pick a side and write about it...Maybe it will increase my readers and get my name out there.

Then of course the corporate F**$s who are so afraid that their bottom line might be affected, quickly cave in...

[Rusty Yates]

Before I am destroyed for my comments, I am a FAN of O&A. I have listened since the beginning on xm every day they have been on the air. I bought my dad an xm roady and am paying his sub for a year and now he is a faithful listener.

* now my bad thoughts*

How many times in the last few weeks have Greg H and Anthony C. said, "why are you apologizing?". "Imus should not have apologized, thats where he fucked up".

So what do I hear this morning but an apology. I am disgusted with my "family" the O&A show. In a family its ok to voice your opinion without being a detriment or being killed. I swallowed it when they for 2 years talked down terrestrial then jumped on a contract with CBS. When people tried to bring it up they were just whiners with an invalid gripe or argument.

I am definitely on the side of O&A on this, but I think that they need to look at what they say vs. what they actually do.

I am a person who hates the same Hippocrates that the show and listeners do so why is it ok for O&A to do it???


I know y'all are going to murder me for this but this is a forum and I cannot be the only person thinking this. This situation should be our reason to ATTACK the media who is driving all this BULLSHIT! not cower down and hope for the best.

Donnie M.
Houston Texas.

[krunk]

If the merger was a non issue I don't think XM would care..and the only reason the merger is now an issue is because condi rice and laura bush were metnioned. If it was stalker patti and the hobo cum slurper lady die....XM wouldn't give a crap

[berniephyl]

Before I am destroyed for my comments, I am a FAN of O&A. I have listened since the beginning on xm every day they have been on the air. I bought my dad an xm roady and am paying his sub for a year and now he is a faithful listener.

* now my bad thoughts*

How many times in the last few weeks have Greg H and Anthony C. said, "why are you apologizing?". "Imus should not have apologized, thats where he fucked up".

So what do I hear this morning but an apology. I am disgusted with my "family" the O&A show. In a family its ok to voice your opinion without being a detriment or being killed. I swallowed it when they for 2 years talked down terrestrial then jumped on a contract with CBS. When people tried to bring it up they were just whiners with an invalid gripe or argument.

I am definitely on the side of O&A on this, but I think that they need to look at what they say vs. what they actually do.


I know y'all are going to murder me for this but this is a forum and I cannot be the only person thinking this. This situation should be our reason to ATTACK the media who is driving all this BULLSHIT! not cower down and hope for the best.

Donnie M.
Houston Texas.


They didn't say Imus shouldn't have apologized...did they? They said he should have apologized and moved on, and not gone on the apology tour (IE Going on Sharpton's show)

Also, in the last few weeks, a precident has been set...a very new set of rules where really NO ONE knows what can and can't be said.


I am a person who hates the same Hippocrates that the show and listeners do so why is it ok for O&A to do it???

I went to the zoo last week...I liked seeing the Hippos there.

[Juncti]

Definitely not so much a 1st Amendment issue as an employer employee issue. Problem is, the employers (in this case CBS and XM) hired Opie and Anthony because of the style of radio they produce and the sizable audience they bring with them. To fire them for doing what they were hired to do is what is so shameful to them as a corporation.

Like buying a pit bull trained to attack, and then getting pissed when it attacks something. You can't have it both ways.

[Rusty Yates]

I don't think they should have apologized at all. Cunty Rice and the other fuck are public officials with public lives and are open to such attacks. I heard them say several times "Why are they apologizing" after the Imus thing.

[Rusty Yates]

Also, in the last few weeks, a precident has been set...a very new set of rules where really NO ONE knows what can and can't be said.


I agree which is why they (and F-in XM) should stand for the right to say anything they want. I am behind them and will gladly fly to NY next week to protest and let them hear my voice.

[berniephyl]

I don't think they should have apologized at all. Cunty Rice and the other fuck are public officials with public lives and are open to such attacks. I heard them say several times "Why are they apologizing" after the Imus thing.


While I don't think there was anything wrong with what Homeless Charlie said, and it was obviously all a joke...it IS not tolerated by Secret Service to make threats against people such as the President.

Don't get me wrong...this is NOT what they did, there were no threats made, but your use of the word "attack" is a bit off.

[fuckwit]

i don't want to be a negative nelly, but do you notice all those quotes are in regards to the government.

O&A, imus, JV and elvis, none of these people are in trouble with the government. this isn't a freedom of speech issue.

Thats a cop out and an excuse used to persecute. Just because the government isnt jailing men because of what they say doesnt mean this isnt a freedom of speech issue.
Public trials are being held. Imus was tried, convicted and executed in the public court. These men are being destroyed for nothing but the words they say. And what makes it worse are they do it as an art form. No matter what, they were only joking. What about that church that goes around with signs that say 'god hates fags' and protests soldiers funerals and are publicly pleased with soldier deaths. Are they forced to apologize? Are they fired? Forced to move? Or were they defended by the ACLU? Cause they are. Thier freedom of speech is heralded. If someone tries to silence those savages people come out of the woodwork trying to fight for thier rights. Why not Imus or JV and Elvis or Opie and Anthony? What the fuck is so different? Oh because we have found a new way in this country to silence people. No need to jail them now we have the media. Now we can publicly shame them, brand them racists, judge their content, allow no defense, judge their character, call for their REMOVAL. DESTROY SOMEONE. Imus is stalked and branded now. Sightings of him are made in the media. Look! the racist came out to a book signing. Look at the man we decided we are better then. this is a fucking witch hunt carried out in the name of the news medias ratings. No, the government stays strategically quieted while we lynch men on nightly news for their words. How fucking convenient. This is a freedom of speech issue. If you cant say what you feel in this country let alone make a fucking joke without fear we have a fucking freedom of speech issue.

[HJS]

Under what pretext do people claim this is a "Free Speech" issue?

[IWanGoHome]

While I don't think there was anything wrong with what Homeless Charlie said, and it was obviously all a joke...it IS not tolerated by Secret Service to make threats against people such as the President.


I think you're exactly right.

[ChurnRate]

O&A are on the radio because sponsors are willing to pay for advertisement.

If sponsors drop paying for advertising on the O&A show, then O&A are out.

This is not a freedom of speech issue. It is a privileage to be on the radio and to be heard by millions, not a right. The government has not and will not be involved in this (they weren't with Imus or with JV and Elvis)


Prediction: off of both XM and CBS by the end of next week, because of dropped advertising and pressure.

[Jolie]

So a private company has the right to create a contract for employment that protects its workers from unneccessary harm and promotes a safe and effective workplace -

I'm guessing at least one other person on this thread besides me works for a living, and I am guessing that if you went in to work and started referring to black coworkers as n----rs or hispanics as spics or wetbacks, or started calling your female workers "toots" or "chick", you would probably at the very LEAST get talked to and at the very most get fired. Its not a freedom of speech issue, because companies can impose those rules, and you have a right to agree to abide by the rules and restrictions set forth by said company, or find another job. Its that simple.

Now if the government came in after the fact and jailed you for calling a woman "toots" at work, then you would have a freedom of speech issue.

[Rusty Yates]

Prediction: off of both XM and CBS by the end of next week, because of dropped advertising and pressure.


If it happens I'll Flush my xm down the toilet and go give my mom a deep, all the way Mae style dicking...

[Rusty Yates]

Does xm care about the douches advertising on 202 that much anyway? If I hear the "write this on a rock" guy anymore I'll ...

Seriously I thought XM was about subscriptions and if they fuck O&A I think they might lose 1 or 2 subs.

(Maybe more than that Jim.)

[23 Skidoo]

You people that are saying this isn't a freedom of speech issue aren't seeing the forest for the trees. American has a tradition of artistic freedom, the ability of a person to criticize his government freely, especially in recent times (Communists didn't have many free speech rights in the 40s & 50s). Shows like Saturday Night Live are an example of how America stands apart from other countries when it comes to the freedom to express one's self, even in the most controversial of ways.

When popular voices like Imus and O & A are silenced, their employers may have the right to do so, but those employers are eviscerating that bedrock First Amendment right. Whether it's direct violation of the First Amendment or by analogy, freedom of speech and freedom of expression still suffers a great deal.

By your strict view of free speech, O&A only have the right to say whatever they want on a street corner... but come on, what meaning do their Constitutional rights have if they can't have the platform they heretofore had. Especially if they lost that platform by having broken no rules or policies, except for the newly fabricated unwritten rule "not to offend someone." Make no mistake, this is all about free speech. When people are no longer allowed to engage in cringe humor, then maybe you'll see why.

[HJS]

Keep arguing this as a political (left versus right) and you are missing the point. All the people screaming about liberals with the Imus story are left holding their dicks on this one.

The real issue is corporate bias. Corporations do not care about liberal or conservative bias. They care about money. As long as we keep taking sides against each other than they keep making money.

You want O&A to stay on radio? Convince the corporations that they will lose $ if they are gone.

I wish this was a freedom of speech issue but no one can cite any law or amendment that protects your speech from an employer.

*Edit*

To 23Skidoo:

If O&A got on XM radio and told people to go to Sirius then they shouldn't be fired for their comments because of free speech. Crazy talk.

[asswiper]

O&A are on the radio because sponsors are willing to pay for advertisement.

If sponsors drop paying for advertising on the O&A show, then O&A are out.

This is not a freedom of speech issue. It is a privileage to be on the radio and to be heard by millions, not a right. The government has not and will not be involved in this (they weren't with Imus or with JV and Elvis)


Prediction: off of both XM and CBS by the end of next week, because of dropped advertising and pressure.


wrong. o and a are on xm because of US!!!! we fucking pay, not the bullshit advertisers. they are there so the boys can piss. if this were a money thing, the boys would be fine cause xm will loose a shitload of subs (about 50 if you ask hoo hoo). the judges, juries, and executioners that are the media are telling us and xm what we should listen too. the media should not tell us what to listen to, we should tell them.

and dont give me the shit about the merger, the chances of that going though were slim anyway. besides, i dont think mel would like less subs either

[patbattlefield]

O&A are on the radio because sponsors are willing to pay for advertisement.

If sponsors drop paying for advertising on the O&A show, then O&A are out.

This is not a freedom of speech issue. It is a privileage to be on the radio and to be heard by millions, not a right. The government has not and will not be involved in this (they weren't with Imus or with JV and Elvis)


Prediction: off of both XM and CBS by the end of next week, because of dropped advertising and pressure.


That is a common argument to excuse this type of censorship. If special interest groups are able to shut you up with threats to advertisers thus allowing for only content they approve to be broadcast is that truly free speech? This is mob like behavior and needs to be confronted not appeased.

[Plunkies]

Free speech is a concept that goes way past goverment law you fucking morons. Massive censorship whether it's by the fuckin US military or by bulshit religious/white guilt douche bags is still censorship all the same. You're not allowed to hurt anyone's feelings anymore on an artistic medium or entertainment program without special interest groups attempting to make your life hell and the news exploiting it for ratings, printing lies, and pressuring companies to fire on-air personalities to make the bad press go away? Is that not a form of censorship to you? Is censorship not another way to restrict free speech? Just because the MPAA is a private organization doesn't mean it's any less of an attack on people's right to express themselves.

[habeasrob]

XM's main selling point is uncensored radio. By limiting O&A, and taking Black Phillip off the air, they're taking away that selling point.

Right now, they're better than the other satellite radio company - barely. If they continue to fuck with artists, they can no longer say that.


I concur completely, at point of sale you will have two choices, one censored, one uncensored... I wonder which will sell better?

[IWanGoHome]

Now if the government came in after the fact and jailed you for calling a woman "toots" at work, then you would have a freedom of speech issue.

I don't think sexual or racial discrimination are protected speech, so no you wouldn't.

But if your freedom of speech impacted your very livelihood, as very few professions do - it would be related, and would be a huge issue for you.

Your inability to speak freely would impede your ability to make a living.

[Jolie]

I don't think sexual or racial discrimination are protected speech, so no you wouldn't.

But if your freedom of speech impacted your very livelihood, as very few professions do - it would be related, and would be a huge issue for you.

Your inability to speak freely would impede your ability to make a living.

But its not the government inhibiting that ability - its the company that says "yes, you make your living as a talk radio personality, but we (and our advertisers who ultimately give us the money to provide your salary) don't think that was appropriate so we are taking action"

It sucks, but its the company's right to do that.

If they do, I'll be pissed and cancel my subscription, but the company still can do it.

(Btw, I havent had a Sam Adams beer since Sex for Sam 3)

[patbattlefield]

I don't think sexual or racial discrimination are protected speech, so no you wouldn't.

But if your freedom of speech impacted your very livelihood, as very few professions do - it would be related, and would be a huge issue for you.

Your inability to speak freely would impede your ability to make a living.

Work is completely different environment and different standards apply. This is a comedy show on an uncensored(supposedly) channel on a pay radio service. There are warnings every commercial break warning that it might contain offensive material and instructions on how to block the channel. Holy fuck, how could you not be more clear? DON'T LIKEY DON'T LISTEN! :fight6: