Ron's Take on Dog Fighting

[weakside]

I almost always agree with Ron but not on this particular issue. Here are some of my points:

Humans choose in engage in violent acts. Animals don't.

When animals do engage in violence it for survival, not for sport.

True, people do eat meat and wear leather. But they were not tortured like what happens in animal fights. I doubt that there is anyone who would rather die quickly rather than being tortured to death.

Yes, there are bigger problems in this country than dog fighting, but that does not excuse it. If we go with the ideology that we should only worry about bigger problems then only thing we should ever worry about is nuclear war and should ignore all the other problems of the world. Crimes, both great and small, need to have consequences. He is not going to be put to death or put in prison for the rest of his life but he does need to have a consequence for his crime if he is in fact guilty of it.

Vick (who is still being paid his full salary by the way) is simply being told not to show for practice and lost his endorsements for, at the very least, associating with criminals. It brings a bad light to the NFL and this type of negative stigma will kill a league because perception is reality. Whether it is true or not, the NBA is seen as more “thuggish” than the NFL and MLB. Because of that until the NBA does something to improve their image they will always be in 3rd place behind the other major sports. Being #1, the NFL can’t afford to throw all the players, coaches, and personnel associated with the league under the bus just for one player.

I still think Ron is the man though.

[Kid Brock]

I was also quite bothered my Ron's position on this matter and actually turned off the show so I wouldn't start holding this one topic against the show as a whole.

[Stormrider666]

I almost always agree with Ron but not on this particular issue. Here are some of my points:

Humans choose in engage in violent acts. Animals don't.

When animals do engage in violence it for survival, not for sport.

True, people do eat meat and wear leather. But they were not tortured like what happens in animal fights. I doubt that there is anyone who would rather die quickly rather than being tortured to death.

Yes, there are bigger problems in this country than dog fighting, but that does not excuse it. If we go with the ideology that we should only worry about bigger problems then only thing we should ever worry about is nuclear war and should ignore all the other problems of the world. Crimes, both great and small, need to have consequences. He is not going to be put to death or put in prison for the rest of his life but he does need to have a consequence for his crime if he is in fact guilty of it.

Vick (who is still being paid his full salary by the way) is simply being told not to show for practice and lost his endorsements for, at the very least, associating with criminals. It brings a bad light to the NFL and this type of negative stigma will kill a league because perception is reality. Whether it is true or not, the NBA is seen as more “thuggish” than the NFL and MLB. Because of that until the NBA does something to improve their image they will always be in 3rd place behind the other major sports. Being #1, the NFL can’t afford to throw all the players, coaches, and personnel associated with the league under the bus just for one player.

I still think Ron is the man though.

I agree with everything you said from top to bottom. Dogfighting is an off shoot of the drug dealing community, probably another reasons drugs should be legalized, but that's for another discussion. Also pitbulls that were involved in dogfighting pose a threat to human society, if they happen to escape.

[Mindslayer]

Ill have to check this on the replay tonight.

[Standby]

Since I don't know everything about the Vick situation specifically, and don't want to take an uninformed stance, I will say this.

If the NFL is having a blanket policy to crack down on crime and other things that "give the league a bad image", then they have to follow the same blanket policy they used for Pacman or Tank Johnson (there are probably better examples...). Is the dog fight thing as bad as other crimes? Maybe not. But if the policy they're using is a zero tolerance one, then this falls under it...

[FAngel]

I don't think I share Ron's viewpoint on the entire thing, but I will say that at no point in my life have I lost sleep thinking about cocks.

[circpro]

My problem is not with the act but the fall out...

The proof is evident in that a judge FINALLY set a trial date for R Kelly (http://wackbag.com/showthread.php?t=72587). This is from his sex tape with a minor that surfaced in 2005... in the meantime, R Kelly has had six best-selling albums and three nationwide tours.

Sure Vick is getting his NFL salary but R Kelly earned money based on the public spending their money on his music....

Babble Babble Babble.... I hope they both share a cell.....

[RMPGP]

If you take the emotionality out of it and look at it from pure logic, I can see Ronnie's point for sure.

But I also detest Ron Mexico so I won't miss any sleep knowing he lost his career.

[Angelfuck]

I understand Ron's point but I think the outrage was more over the savage way they killed the dogs who lost the test fights, so many poor dumb defenseless doggies tortured and brutally killed vs one date :rap:

[Standby]

I don't think I share Ron's viewpoint on the entire thing, but I will say that at no point in my life have I lost sleep thinking about cocks.

So you're saying you dream about cocks... :action-sm

http://img511.imageshack.us/img511/6712/chvaudevillead5.jpg

[weakside]

But I also detest Ron Mexico so I won't miss any sleep knowing he lost his career.

Ron Mexico...lol...I forgot about that.

By the way, in my original post I meant to say "I'm sure people would prefer a quick death rather than being tortured…" The way I originally wrote it sounded like I meant the opposite. But in all fairness I was pretty angry with this issue.

Speaking of that, I don't fault Ron for not following any one particular issue. There are some things I too just don't care as much about that others might, so that is cool. This particular issue is one that I just happen to really care about so I think that is why it upset me so much to hear someone say, "Who cares?"

But again, Ron is still awesome. I just happen to disagree with him on this.

[striker]

Actually, there are a couple of things that need to be brought up here. I totally agree, Ron is wrong.

Some points missed; with Kobe, the background and history of the whore involved became evident and brought to life here in Colo. within 4 days of the story breaking. It took almost a full month before the national press picked up on it. I feel that ****, dog fighting, cock fighting are all despicable acts, for Ron to say they are not common, well, shows an ignorance of the world.

In the past three months, here in Colo. alone there have been 24+ arrests made for dog fighting and cock fighting, and a cockfighting ring broken up. Denver & Colorado Springs Police as part of a drug trafficking bust also broke up a dog fighting ring. In one case, this guy was buying 3 fighting roosters a month and having them mailed to him here in Denver (yes it's legal and happens regularly to ship live roosters and chickens via USPS). After the 4th one was shipped to him Postal Police were notified and began an investigation.

THis whole thing with Vick that Ron ignored, the kennel where the dogs were being bred and raised was in Vicks name. This has also spilled over to other teams. There was a brief story on the local news that a Broncos player who is a close friend of Vick's has also been visited by cops about whether or not he is involved. Also, Vick and his buddies have all acted like it's no big deal, sorry pal but it is a big deal, you broke local, state and federal laws. You will pay for you actions.

[striker]

Since I don't know everything about the Vick situation specifically, and don't want to take an uninformed stance, I will say this.

If the NFL is having a blanket policy to crack down on crime and other things that "give the league a bad image", then they have to follow the same blanket policy they used for Pacman or Tank Johnson (there are probably better examples...). Is the dog fight thing as bad as other crimes? Maybe not. But if the policy they're using is a zero tolerance one, then this falls under it...

NASCAR is really the only sport that has taken a serious step(s) to do anything about events that tarnish it's image. NFL, NBA, MLB, NHL all are laughable regarding drug testing and discipline therein. NASCAR drug tests constantly and drivers are regularly punished for violations. In the last 6years, there have been 3 BUSCH series drivers who have lost their racing license and been banned. The one idiot tested positive 3 seasons in a row, the first time was a 3 mos. suspension from racing, the 2nd was a loss of all racing credentials (license, track ban) for a full year, 3rd offense and he was gone for good.

Where has any other sport taken any similar stance?

[RMPGP]

Ron's side:

As a society we:
> Eat veal/foies gras (which is severely tortured)
> Wear furs/leather (even fake fur is real fur now, from china, where they skin dogs alive)
> Eat meat (when we could actually get any healthy benefits of meat from other sources and could be vegetarian)

All of the animals in the three above things die brutal deaths (some worse than others). So why do we suddenly get so emotional when another type of animal is mistreated, because it's one we like? Does that make sense? Either we should be trying to save every animal or we should just let things happen against all animals equally and not discriminate.

This isn't my belief, I'm just laying out that side of the argument. The cultural part I won't buy into though and didn't repeat.

I guess my reply would be:

> I will admit it's hypocritical, but I'm not perfect. I think we are clear on the fact we don't let animals combat each other for entertainment though. Cock fighting (not a pet) is pretty illegal all over.

That's where we draw the line: fighting for entertainment and torturing for no need. How does it benefit society to have those laws in place? The entertainment one means we won't breed animals to be aggressive, and with less aggressive animals, less people will be harmed by them. The torturing (cruelty) allows us to go after someone who has the potential for murdering and torturing actual people in the future. Apparently this is a very common trait of serial killers and murderers.

As for the food, I think at some point in the future, we will no longer eat meat. We'll advance to the point where we'll probably look back on when we did and think we were brutal savages. Not only is it unsanitary, it's also very wasteful of natural resources.

[SilasMarner]

Yeah, i'm also one of the bigger-picture hypocrites....but to completely rationalize away any feelings doesn't feel right either.

There are way bigger problems; and even if i do conradict myself, so what? This tabloid story may lead to a bit less animal cruelty.

I have stolen RB's hilarious "nice bumper sticker quote" diss (sorry Kanye), but didn't he tell Fez that sometimes corny sayings become that way cuz they're true?

(funny slightly related IM on O+A the other day after Ant's joke bombed: "turning comedy into tragedy")

[watsonnostaw]

the man is pro abortion and pro dog fighting.... attay boy bennington


i would like for ronnie to one day discuss his masturbation habits since he seems to have an interest in ESD and Earl's

such as what landmarks has mr bennington jerked off at?

my claim to fame? Arlington Cemetery

[Polack]

Ron has a realistic view on this. Yes it is bad the way they killed the dogs but who gives a shit. Every year hunters like me are given the right to go out and shoot deer and other animals with a ridiculously large rifle. Hundreds of thousands of deer and small game die each year compared to a few hundred fucking dogs that are just like wild animals. For you people to say it's bad to kill a dog by drowning it or by hanging it is stupid. Every year I blow a hole into the side of a whitetail the size of a baseball shattering it's ribcage and making minsmeat out of it's organs. sometimes the deer is still alive when I walk up to it and I have to shoot it again in the head. Down south the rednecks have dogs that fight to the death. Up here we hunt. this is what people do. Everyone just needs to shut their fucking mouths and wait to see if he is guilty. You can't judge a community until you've grown up there and experienced their lives. It's a fucking animal. If you feel so bad for these animals become a fucking cop and do something about it instead of whining on a messageboard.

[striker]

Ron has a realistic view on this. Yes it is bad the way they killed the dogs but who gives a shit..

Cool, where do you live. I want to come and kill your dog the way they killed those who were weak in the "test fight". After all, who gives a shit right.


Every year hunters like me are given the right to go out and shoot deer and other animals with a ridiculously large rifle. Hundreds of thousands of deer and small game die each year compared to a few hundred fucking dogs that are just like wild animals. For you people to say it's bad to kill a dog by drowning it or by hanging it is stupid. Every year I blow a hole into the side of a whitetail the size of a baseball shattering it's ribcage and making minsmeat out of it's organs. sometimes the deer is still alive when I walk up to it and I have to shoot it again in the head..

Way to miss the point. I assume your an ethical hunter? You eat what you kill or are you a moron who hunts for the joy of killing and leaves the carcass behind? Notice the difference, most animal rights groups will give ethical hunters, and those who eat what they kill a break. BUt they will attack trophy hunters who kill solely for the thrill. Those who hunt for the thrill of the kill are the ones who give hunters a bad name, and in the end help lead to hunting bans.


Down south the rednecks have dogs that fight to the death. Up here we hunt. this is what people do. Everyone just needs to shut their fucking mouths and wait to see if he is guilty. You can't judge a community until you've grown up there and experienced their lives. It's a fucking animal. If you feel so bad for these animals become a fucking cop and do something about it instead of whining on a messageboard.

No, most rednecks will tell you that this is not the way it's done. And you right you can't judge a community, until they make the news on a daily basis for the same shit. WHen I see stories on the local news about cockfighting rings being broken up, the last names aren't Smith, Jones, Bennington, McDonald, they are Torres, Sanchez, Gonzalez. When I see dog fighting rings broken up, I don't see white guys like Op, Ant, Ron, Fez or Dave being led away in cuffs, I see Earl Douglass look alikes. As much as I hate racial stereo types and the racism I hear on O&A, they are not far from the truth. When was the last time there was a white on white drive-by in your neighborhood?

[mstscc]

I'm with striker on this one. There is more dog and cockfighting going on than you think. Last year New Mexico finally banned cockfighting after years of debate. Why the debate? Because of the "cultural signifigance" cockfighting has in the Hispanic community in parts on New Mexico, and the massive economic impact cockfighting has on some counties. These were the arguments the state representatives made for years before we got the laws passed. BTW, these are roosters with razor blades tied to their claws, not just a couple of roosters doing what roosters do.

One other thing that I don't think was brought up today was what happens to the dogs when they don't win- the drownings, the hangingss, the beatings, just the absolute torture. Regardless of what happens to Vick, maybe the dark truth of dog fighting has opened some eyes at least.

[mikepop]

Ron Bennington is never wrong in stating his opinion.Its his opinion.
More people should be outraged at this savagery,it just sickens me to no end.(not for faint of heart)
http://www.statesman.com/life/content/life/video/042305_wienerdogs.html

By the way Baby-Fighting is the way to go,you could fill stadiums.
http://img184.imageshack.us/img184/2678/babylinepf9.jpg

[Polack]

Cool, where do you live. I want to come and kill your dog the way they killed those who were weak in the "test fight". After all, who gives a shit right.

These are dogs that are not treated like pets. That is why they are useless to any community. I live in Aurora Wisconsin. If you want my name PM me. I will gladly tell you it. That way when you come after my family pet you will be dealt with. Killing a family pet has consiquences. Killing a wild animal has been done since man has tasted meat.

Way to miss the point. I assume your an ethical hunter? You eat what you kill or are you a moron who hunts for the joy of killing and leaves the carcass behind? Notice the difference, most animal rights groups will give ethical hunters, and those who eat what they kill a break. BUt they will attack trophy hunters who kill solely for the thrill. Those who hunt for the thrill of the kill are the ones who give hunters a bad name, and in the end help lead to hunting bans.

I kill to feed my family. Every single deer I have killed has been gutted, skinned and cut by me for the sole purpose of food. I hate trophy hunters. We get those fuckers coming up here form Chicago and Green Bay. With one exception. I hunt Coyotes which are considered a varmint up here and nobody eats them. Just like Pitbulls they are wild fucking animals. We kill them so caulky asses like you can have a pet outside at night and not worry if it will get attacked in the middle of the night.

No, most rednecks will tell you that this is not the way it's done. And you right you can't judge a community, until they make the news on a daily basis for the same shit. WHen I see stories on the local news about cockfighting rings being broken up, the last names aren't Smith, Jones, Bennington, McDonald, they are Torres, Sanchez, Gonzalez. When I see dog fighting rings broken up, I don't see white guys like Op, Ant, Ron, Fez or Dave being led away in cuffs, I see Earl Douglass look alikes. As much as I hate racial stereo types and the racism I hear on O&A, they are not far from the truth. When was the last time there was a white on white drive-by in your neighborhood?

Just so you know I do think what those crazy fuckers down south do to animals is wrong but I also think that as a society we have grown to be outraged by the dumb shit on the evening news instead of the real problems facing this nation. For all you people to judge people before they are found guilty is a hypocracy. If you were in this situation you would want a fair trial. To be complaining about some dogs that died a horrible death and ignore the fact that the leaders in this country are sending your neighbors to a country to give them the freedoms that they don't want is ridiculous. We are on the top of the food chain, Help the fellow humans out before you save a fucking wild animal.

My reply is in bold

[Garyisajoke]

Instead of saying which is worse, why can't we just say that **** and dogfighting are both bad and leave it at that, not get into a pissing contest about it?

The reason Kobe's situation was less controversial was because from the get-go, most people figured she fucked him and wanted some money out of it (which is what happened). He's Kobe fucking Bryant, he doesn't need to **** anyone. It's going to get a lot worse for Vick because there's no gray area here - dogs can't consensually fight like the chick consensually fucked Kobe. Either he did it or not.

Holy shit that's a terrible argument...

Oh and Mikepop is right on the money. You can't be wrong when you're stating your opinion. I'd give you good karma if Wackbag had it.

[Angelfuck]

I have a problem with people putting themselves above animals, thats one thing I never understood when I was a child and being taught the bible, the dominance over all animals part. Animals may be dumb but they still feel pain, in my opinion intentionally hurting an animal is just as bad as hurting a child or a retard, either one makes you a cruel bastard. For those that say its wrong to eat animals, Im not sure I can agree, animals eat each other, we are mammals too, I guess I just have to keep pretending that the deaths of the animals Im eatting weren't painful

[Kid Brock]

You absolutely can be wrong when you state an opinion. If I say "my opinion is 2 + 2 = 147 or my opinion is that Chicago is on the pacific ocean" my opinion would be wrong. People have the right to an opinion, but that doesn't mean that all opinions are correct.

[Angelfuck]

those aren't opinions, thats just stating false information, an opinion is a view, perspective or judgment based on ones individual beliefs, you can agree or disagree with an opinion, but the nature of an opinion is that technically there is no way to prove or disprove one

[YourAmishDaddy]

It's just still amazing to me that in 2007 we tend to place a higher value of life to animals than humans. I know we need to protect the defenseless, I get that. But there's no proportionality being used with this case at least.

Horrible thing, yes. The level of outrage far exceeds that one would expect for the cruelty of the act.

[RMPGP]

Jesus christ this issue is as bad as abortion...

Can we simply agree to disagree everyone? :action-sm

[Abysmul]

Jesus christ this issue is as bad as abortion...

Can we simply agree to disagree everyone? :action-sm
NO!:mad4:

[Angelfuck]

Jesus christ this issue is as bad as abortion...

Can we simply agree to disagree everyone? :action-sm

shut up, hole :p :haha7:

[weakside]

It's just still amazing to me that in 2007 we tend to place a higher value of life to animals than humans. I know we need to protect the defenseless, I get that. But there's no proportionality being used with this case at least.

Horrible thing, yes. The level of outrage far exceeds that one would expect for the cruelty of the act.

I don't see how this comes off as placer a higher value on dogs than human life. Where are people getting that idea?

If he is found guilty of this disgusting act then he should do some time and be fined. But if he was doing the same thing that was done to the dogs on humans (forcing them to fight to the death, slamming the losers to the ground in order to finish them off, drowning them, and tying up a woman so stronger men could Rap* her to make strong babies) he would get a lethal injection.

Do you see my point? It’s not the same as doing it to humans so the penalty will be less but it is still fucking disgusting. Which, by the way, is where the outrage comes from.

[ern]

I don't know about some of you, but I put myself on a higher plane than animals. I have the ability to reason, I have opposable thumbs, and unless dinosaurs come back in a big way - I'm on top of the food chain. Just a couple of reason why. But if your on the same plane as them, then how about sleeping outside, I'll leave you my table scraps.

EVOLUTION..the strong survive and the weak perish. Not my fault that cats didn't invent firearms.:p

[Angelfuck]

so you'd shoot a baby because it can't reason and eats whatever you feed it? "whaa"

[Polack]

so you'd shoot a baby because it can't reason and eats whatever you feed it? "whaa"

Not unless I was in a plane crash and me and the child were the only survivors. Survival of the fittest. And yes I have a three year old and a two year old. "They're adorable" But first I would save as much meat from the rest of the dead victims and eat that until I ran out.

[striker]

My reply is in bold

SInce when are pitbulls wild animals? I know several people with pit bulls that are as friendly, hell probably more so, then my spanial mix. One of my co-workers has two of them, one male and one female. The female rides with him in the semi all day, he fires up the semi at 6am, she hops in the sleeper and curls up and goes to sleep. Never barks or makes a sound, hell she'll flop over on her back to belly scratched from total strangers. I suspect the only person she would ever bite is ESD if she knew his background. The male spends the day at home with his wife and 4 kids (all under 10), in 5 yrs the dog has never bit or growled at his kids. I can't say the same thing about my spanial mix.

[striker]

Jesus christ this issue is as bad as abortion...

Can we simply agree to disagree everyone? :action-sm

No, now go back to defending ESD:action-sm

[striker]

I don't know about some of you, but I put myself on a higher plane than animals. I have the ability to reason, I have opposable thumbs, and unless dinosaurs come back in a big way - I'm on top of the food chain. Just a couple of reason why. But if your on the same plane as them, then how about sleeping outside, I'll leave you my table scraps.

EVOLUTION..the strong survive and the weak perish. Not my fault that cats didn't invent firearms.:p

Reality check, go for a swim with some great whites or wander Kodiak island and tell me who is at the top of the food chain.

[striker]

I'm with striker on this one. There is more dog and cockfighting going on than you think. Last year New Mexico finally banned cockfighting after years of debate. Why the debate? Because of the "cultural signifigance" cockfighting has in the Hispanic community in parts on New Mexico, and the massive economic impact cockfighting has on some counties. These were the arguments the state representatives made for years before we got the laws passed. BTW, these are roosters with razor blades tied to their claws, not just a couple of roosters doing what roosters do. .

If people only knew how fucked up some of the states are out here in the west. Hell, I think the POW nickname would change something worse. Colo., Tx., NM, Az we have some fucked up people out here because of so many of the illegals coming up from Mexico. I'm in Alb. weekly picking up loads and the shit I see that goes on.............

[RMPGP]

No, now go back to defending ESD:action-sm

The curious thing in this thread is I believe we have found the root of your Dave hatred: his violation of a dog. We have also found your achilles heel. :action-sm

[Polack]

SInce when are pitbulls wild animals? I know several people with pit bulls that are as friendly, hell probably more so, then my spanial mix. One of my co-workers has two of them, one male and one female. The female rides with him in the semi all day, he fires up the semi at 6am, she hops in the sleeper and curls up and goes to sleep. Never barks or makes a sound, hell she'll flop over on her back to belly scratched from total strangers. I suspect the only person she would ever bite is ESD if she knew his background. The male spends the day at home with his wife and 4 kids (all under 10), in 5 yrs the dog has never bit or growled at his kids. I can't say the same thing about my spanial mix.

You are correct. Some pitbulls are family pets. I had one when I was five and the thing was a perfect pet. But if you want to insure your home. Almost every company you contact tells you they will not insure you because of the dog. I just purchased my home four years ago and two years ago I wanted to buy a baby blue pitbull. They said no and also told me I couldn't have any other off their list. The list had five dogs on it. Even though they make great pets they are also the first to bite a childs head and kill it if the baby looks at him wrong. They are very dangerous which is why I think they are more of a wild animal than a safe family pet.

[Polack]

Reality check, go for a swim with some great whites or wander Kodiak island and tell me who is at the top of the food chain.

We have the ability to pull a trigger. That makes me the top of the food chain. I work in the woods everyday and see alot of blackbear and wolves. My pistol is always on my side. That puts me at the top.

[chickenfinger]

I disagree with Ron about dogfighting.

I aplogize for my harsh tone.

<------15lb Boston Terrier. He meant business. The pit bull I used to own years ago was as gentle as a lamb.

[Drinkingbuddy]

The whole segment was really interesting but I thought the caller got the best of Ron. Yelling that there are more important problems is one of the biggest rhetorical cop-outs there is and I cringed little when i heard him say it. When Ron mimicked the "mutual exclusive" point the caller made after he had hung up was embarrassing to hear. Especially, since it was a pretty good counter point.

I love Ron, he's a hilarious, cigar smoking, knife wielding, witty, abortionist and doesn't give a fuck about anyone outside his own clique and I respect that. I aspire to be it.

But the whole argument was way to much like Rush Limbaugh. A host yelling things ridiculous statements trying to setup an insane false dichotomy that no rational person would allow themselves to be trapped in.Different cultures place different values on certain animals. Spain does bullfighting, Mexicans (apparently) love cock fighting, Arabs have Stallion fights, and Indians (Vishnu not TaTonka) love all kinds of animals and have temples dedicated to cows, monkeys and rats to name a few.

American love dogs and too bad for Michael Vic dog fighting in the United States is illegal, so arguing about if it moral or immoral really doesn't matter. Personally I love those lil' doggies and if honestly hope that if Vic is found guilty he gets the worst of whats coming to him.

[maz]

gotta be honest
think Ron is one of the 3 funniest guys on radio
never liked pitbulls
but i just had a bad feeling in my gut
listening to this argument
just didn't sit right with me
that's all i got
not gonna bother me that much though
if vick's guilty, he deserves what he gets

[Garyisajoke]

gotta be honest
think Ron is one of the 3 funniest guys on radio
never liked pitbulls
but i just had a bad feeling in my gut
listening to this argument
just didn't sit right with me
that's all i got
not gonna bother me that much though
if vick's guilty, he deserves what he gets

is that a poem?

[trar911]

If dave gave the exact same opinion as Ron, everyone here would be apeshit. there would be 10 threads about how dave was wrong, but because ron said it many of you all defend him. I love ron and most of what he says is awesome. this isn't one of those things.
Most people hate animal violence more than human violence. just like men have larger brains than women... its science!

[Action Blackson]

For the most part I agree with Ron. Dogs are not humans... it's not comparable.

America has much bigger issues right now than a guy fighting dogs against each other.

[Midnight Rider]

I completely agree with Ron (and would agree with Dave if had the same opinion). The way I look at it is, how does Michael Vick and dogfighting affect my life? It doesn't. Not one bit. Yes, its brutal, and yes it's sad, but there's nothing I can do to stop it, and there's nothing that would be done if got upset or outraged. They're just dogs.

If they came in and killed my pets the way they do those dogs, then of course, I'd have a problem with it, but only my pets, not every other dog that gets treated that way. Sure, I feel bad when I see a neglected or abused dog, but that's not my business. I keep walking/driving by and say to myself "how sad." Then, I go back to more important things. Same goes with other small things.

As far as Ron's "bigger problems" argument, I agree with that too. There are much more important things than animal cruelty. I'm not saying that it's not a problem, but I care first and foremost about the things that affect me directly. Dogfighting in Georgia doesnt even show up on my radar in my grand scheme of things.

I think that was Ron's point. It's not like he was saying that it's okay to kill dogs. I think he was saying that dogfighting/abusing dogs was so inconsequential individually to his life, he didn't care as much as some people.

[RMPGP]

Well the "there's more important things" argument doesn't really fly since this can be applied to almost any issue at all. The law is on the books. Ron Mexico broke this law. The NFL doesn't tolerate players making it look bad. He's getting punished.

If you want to argue that it shouldn't be a law, that's a different argument. Not this one. It is a law, he broke it, he's getting punished. Simple as that.

[RMPGP]

I'm such a devil's advocate faggot, I will play both sides of the issue.

But the caller really was a cunt yesterday. I do strongly believe that.

[Midnight Rider]

I'm not arguing that we should turn a blind eye to lawbreakers. But, I'm not in law enforcement. It's not my job to investigate and arrest the ones who break the law. That's their business, lawbreakers and law enforcers alike. If I witness dogfighting actually happening, then I might be one to call the police, just as if I witnessed a **** or assualt. But that's a big might. I don't call on me and my friends smoking..things. If its in my neighborhood and the dogs run loose and threaten me and my family, then yeah, I'd call. It's all about, how does it affect me. A QB and his family/friends in Georgia affects me none. That's why I don't care about this story as much as others seem to.

One of my (and I think Ron B's) questions is.....why the focused outrage over this particular crime (which he'll get justly punished for if he's guilty), and not for every other crime being committed?

[trar911]

Ron says he is unaware of the amount of dogfighting in america etc. yet he was uninformed with his views on pitbulls just as killing machines who roam neighborhoods preying on kids and old women- like vampires. yet he maintained that ignorant viewpoint.
just annoyed me a bit.:icon_roll

[RMPGP]

One of my (and I think Ron B's) questions is.....why the focused outrage over this particular crime (which he'll get justly punished for if he's guilty), and not for every other crime being committed?

People love dogs.

[Midnight Rider]

People love dogs.

I know this. I love em too. But, all I ever ask is, how is that my problem? And why should it be my problem?

[striker]

The curious thing in this thread is I believe we have found the root of your Dave hatred: his violation of a dog. We have also found your achilles heel. :action-sm

That's part of it, but as I said in a different thread, there are many others.

You are correct. Some pitbulls are family pets. I had one when I was five and the thing was a perfect pet. But if you want to insure your home. Almost every company you contact tells you they will not insure you because of the dog. I just purchased my home four years ago and two years ago I wanted to buy a baby blue pitbull. They said no and also told me I couldn't have any other off their list. The list had five dogs on it. Even though they make great pets they are also the first to bite a childs head and kill it if the baby looks at him wrong. They are very dangerous which is why I think they are more of a wild animal than a safe family pet.

My homeowners association, of which I am the board president, specifically states in the Covenants that viscious breeds are prohibited. It even spells out pitbulls. Yet, in the 4 yrs I have been board president, I have refused to enforce that specific Covenant, I don't buy into it. Please reread my first post about this, I have a spanial/lab mix, in 8yrs she has snapped at or bitten two children. Now this is a dog, which by all accounts is a mix of two breeds which are considered kid friendly. Yet, because I know her tendancy, I don't let children, especially little children near her.


We have the ability to pull a trigger. That makes me the top of the food chain. I work in the woods everyday and see alot of blackbear and wolves. My pistol is always on my side. That puts me at the top.

Difference between these animals and those I listed. Wolves as a rule will run from humans, blackbear are a crap shoot either way. Kodiak's are known to attack humans, and you better have a full magazine before pulling the trigger, I have heard stories of it taking as much as 3 rnds from a .50 DE to drop a Kodiak.

[RMPGP]

Can lock this thread, as Ron and Fez absolutely LOVE dogs as we heard today. They adore them. Too bad about Scruffy though, he didn't find a home, so he was electrocuted then drowned, then hung.

[gleet]

I'm just glad Ron's dog got to go to the farm when it was 11. I bet it is happy there. I wish he could find it and get to know it again.

[Angelfuck]

I know this. I love em too. But, all I ever ask is, how is that my problem? And why should it be my problem?

is it your problem when someone beats an old lady? It's inhumane to hurt another living thing on purpose, people who do things like this have no regard for the pain they cause, no empathy, no sympathy. Yes hurting an old lady is worse than hurting a dog but as I said earlier in the thread, either way if you can cause pain to another living thing and feel nothing youre a cruel bastard. I killed a fucking fly the other day and I felt really bad bc it died slowly.

[Polack]

My homeowners association, of which I am the board president, specifically states in the Covenants that viscious breeds are prohibited. It even spells out pitbulls. Yet, in the 4 yrs I have been board president, I have refused to enforce that specific Covenant, I don't buy into it.

This is a blatent disregard for human lives. If one of those dogs that you allowed to be in your neighborhood attacked and killed a child your homeowners association would be listed in a lawsuit. But most importantly you would have that childs death on your mind everytime you see the kids parents. You would risk a childs life over the gut feeling you have that pitbulls are safe.

No animals life is worth a humans life, never.

[striker]

No animals life is worth a humans life, never.

Without question, without question. That I know of, there are currently 3 pitbulls residing in our development, I have met with animal control, I have met with my City Council member, I have met with our HOA lawyer. My opinion all along was and still is, if the dog hurts someone, I will be the first to call the cops to have it put down. Yet, in 4 yrs, no one has been hurt, I see two of the owners taking their dogs for walks on a nightly basis.

Here's a little something for you, Rottie's are considered as dangerous a dog as a pitbull. My Dad's cousin had both a Rottie and a Pit in Sacramento, Calif. Both dogs are trained and certified as as hospital visitation dogs. She regularly takes them into hospitals and nursing homes to visit the sick and elderly. Unfortunately, three years ago the Rottie died of natural causes, the one nursing home that she regularly took the dogs to visit, the entire staff and many of the patients who understood all signed a card of condolance for her when they learned of the dog passing. The pitbull she still takes on weekly visits to the hospitals and nursing homes. In 6 yrs of doing this, she has not been questioned since the first visit.

[striker]

It's inhumane to hurt another living thing on purpose, people who do things like this have no regard for the pain they cause, no empathy, no sympathy. Yes hurting an old lady is worse than hurting a dog but as I said earlier in the thread, either way if you can cause pain to another living thing and feel nothing youre a cruel bastard. I killed a fucking fly the other day and I felt really bad bc it died slowly.


AF, while I agree with your basic premise, you have to be able to seperate the reasons for which you are killing or hurting someone or something. To do it intentionally for no other reason than sport or pleasure is wrong and can never be justified ( and I will never begin to justify things I have done in my past). To do so out of survival is a different story.

[cozzie]

Christ allready lock this thread and shut it down, Ronnie has spoken!!!!!



as far as alll you dog lovers out there, pit bulls are the worst bread ever , i've owned 2 an d have had to shoot both of them for going nuts, and yes i'm a good dog owner

[RMPGP]

AF, while I agree with your basic premise, you have to be able to seperate the reasons for which you are killing or hurting someone or something. To do it intentionally for no other reason than sport or pleasure is wrong and can never be justified ( and I will never begin to justify things I have done in my past). To do so out of survival is a different story.

Is a justified reason for killing someone that you don't think they are funny? Cuz you mention murdering Dave on a weekly basis with seemingly no level of joking.

[Angelfuck]

AF, while I agree with your basic premise, you have to be able to separate the reasons for which you are killing or hurting someone or something. To do it intentionally for no other reason than sport or pleasure is wrong and can never be justified ( and I will never begin to justify things I have done in my past). To do so out of survival is a different story.

if you've read my other posts I completely agree, there are just certain things inherent in our species, as with other animals, that we are predisposed to doing ex. hunting, killing pests. death, killing, doesn't bother me, its killing or torture for fun without sympathy (which I thinks shows a lack of empathy) that I think is humane (and not inherent in our species). I know there are people who disagree, but claiming to be the most intelligent species, then justifying inflicting pain on something is pure stupidity. The fact that we are cabable of feeling sympathy and empathy (and the fact that children under the age of 8 and animals cant) must mean something, although I am too drunk to articulate what :p

Oh yeah and Im just listening to this segment of todays show, I hope Ron isnt joking bc I love him even more now :D ;) I wonder if Ronnie would save a st bernard before earl, I think we can all agree the st bernard serves more worth :p

double edit: OMG RON IS A DOG, get it, Ron=God, God=Dog :drunk: :drunk: :drunk: all you dog killers better think twice, it could be Ron :p

[RMPGP]

ron would save a rabid, half dead rat before he'd save earl.

[Polack]

Without question, without question. That I know of, there are currently 3 pitbulls residing in our development, I have met with animal control, I have met with my City Council member, I have met with our HOA lawyer. My opinion all along was and still is, if the dog hurts someone, I will be the first to call the cops to have it put down. Yet, in 4 yrs, no one has been hurt, I see two of the owners taking their dogs for walks on a nightly basis.

Here's a little something for you, Rottie's are considered as dangerous a dog as a pitbull. My Dad's cousin had both a Rottie and a Pit in Sacramento, Calif. Both dogs are trained and certified as as hospital visitation dogs. She regularly takes them into hospitals and nursing homes to visit the sick and elderly. Unfortunately, three years ago the Rottie died of natural causes, the one nursing home that she regularly took the dogs to visit, the entire staff and many of the patients who understood all signed a card of condolance for her when they learned of the dog passing. The pitbull she still takes on weekly visits to the hospitals and nursing homes. In 6 yrs of doing this, she has not been questioned since the first visit.

I'm done posting in this thread. I do agree with certain things you are saying and I disagree with things you say. We have a difference of opinion on this and that will never change. As long as you harrass Dave on a regular basis I see you as one of the good guys.

[striker]

Is a justified reason for killing someone that you don't think they are funny? Cuz you mention murdering Dave on a weekly basis with seemingly no level of joking.


***sigh***

[striker]

ron would save a rabid, half dead rat before he'd save earl.

I think most of us would, he'd probably give a dead rat mouth to mouth and revive it before saving Dave

[Reefer]

Felt like the show missed the mark with the dogshit . . .

Ron sounds naive to dogs, and dog fighting. Maybe he is, maybe its a NY thing, maybe just not an animal lover - from his crazy past . . . maybe he set one on fire when he was young . . . who knows.

This whole clapton/scruffy gimmick was just weak. Why not try and discuss it somewhat intelligently? Especially since he did get a big listener response - as he mentioned. Instead he played it strange, with scruffy. Jesus does take care of every dog in heaven (even Vicks dogs), I love animals.

I just wasn't getting it, trying to go over the top - like OOnEEh. just didnt seem like ron and fez . . . to me.

Think watching some episodes of the dog whisperer - with Cesar Milan is in order; for Ron and whoever else needs help better understanding dogs. To think that any breed of dog (in general) is innately dangerous (like a Kodiak is), without learing it - or having cause to be so (defending, or chemically imbalanced) is just not correct. If - Pollack, you had a pit when you were young (like I did), and it was a great pet - it still can be a great pet. The truth is, pit bulls and other similar breeds, are attractive to hayseed like ppl that shouldn't own dogs of any type . . . and end up getting a bad rap. Dogs are a lot of work, and dogs and children should be supervised.

All joking aside, dog fighting is sick: breeding, training, fighting, killing - breeding, training, fighting, killing - breeding, training, fighting, killing. Is sick. They fight, till they cant anymore. Then die. Everyone makes/loses money on it, something is not right here - sick.

This is Mans Best Friend, after all - no other animal (to my knowledge), can make this claim. I eat meat, lots of it. Lets not mince, or debate over semantics. If its true that Vick had a kennel, known for breeding fighting pits, and was involved in the fights and killings - he's fuct, and should be.
Let him be an example.

I don't listen to O&A, I have only been listening to the Ron and Fez show for a short time. I listen everyday, I prefer it to tv usually, I love the show - I am a Ron and Fez listener for life. Today I felt like they put on a weak show, maybe the first one I have experienced, guess this, along with the topic - is why I decided to write . . .


Ron and Fez, the best thing going today.

take care.

[Reefer]

Nice work Striker, thank you.

[jackjack]

Can't we just look around the 37th wall and realize Ron likes to argue the 'other' side of lots of things because it makes for new discussion and thought.

What better way to think about issues than to try defending the opposite of the popular view.

[Reefer]

Good point jackjack, probably why I like the show so much . . .

Listening to the rest of the show now, congradulations Ron - on your 3000th post!

[Matt24]

Ron says he is unaware of the amount of dogfighting in america etc. yet he was uninformed with his views on pitbulls just as killing machines who roam neighborhoods preying on kids and old women- like vampires. yet he maintained that ignorant viewpoint.
just annoyed me a bit.:icon_roll

That is a bad viewpoint that pitbulls, rotweilers, etc. are inherently viscious. My dad is a dog warden and says that they are usually one of the most disciplined dogs he deals with. The problem is that they have jaws like an alligator and can rip your throat out. Any dog can be viscious, ironically poodles are the worst. But all they do is nip, maybe break the skin. Train a pitbull for dog fights or to protect a meth house, what the fuck do they expect?

[cal5000]

This whole clapton/scruffy gimmick was just weak. Why not try and discuss it somewhat intelligently? Especially since he did get a big listener response - as he mentioned. Instead he played it strange, with scruffy. Jesus does take care of every dog in heaven (even Vicks dogs), I love animals.
.

Discuss it intelligently when you just said Jesus loves dogs, despite no mention of that in any piece of scripture.

How about that there are some people who dont give a fuck about dogs and Ron's one of them?

I never understood how:

1. Its ok to kill these animals and eat them but not these. I fucking love meat. And those animals suffer, dont kid yourselves.

2. The ASPCA and PETA kill hundreds of not thousands of dogs in the same ways as Vick ALLEDGEDLY did--but they have a "good reason" to murder innocent dogs--so thats ok--unless youre the fucking dog!

3. Animals are the cruelest fuckers out there and do not feel bad about it. And they kill people when it suits them because they are ANIMALS!

4. All this bullshit about treating animals nice, while the same heartless fucks dont do shit about the millions of people dying for no good reason every goddamn day.

5. Somebody has a "good" dangerous dog and that makes the entire breed ok because in their storybook fucking story, nobody loses a finger or a kid doesnt get mauled.--Thats fucking nonsense unless you start dropping some stats and facts that be looked up and corroborated, its fucking fairytale stupidity. And yes Collies and Labs have killed people Im sure--and I dont give them a pass either. Fuck dogs.

And somebody tell Ving Rhames' dog caretaker how great dogs are cause the dogs he took care of decided to kill that poor motherfucker.

Hypocritcal nonsense. Fuck dogs, they taste great. Cats too.

[RMPGP]

Apparently a woman who lives in France took Scruffy at the last moment, thanks be to god!

Here's a photo of the kind lady:

http://www.abc.net.au/reslib/200602/r71534_199114.jpg

[Angelfuck]

Hypocritcal nonsense. Fuck dogs....

hit a little too close to home maybe? :p

[cal5000]

hit a little too close to home maybe? :p

No, I just choose people over animals--and I consider every animal the same.

Many animals taste good. Some are dangerous, some arent. And if all the cats and dogs died next monday, I wouldnt lose any sleep.

But the made up, nonsense gibberish that "animal lovers" spout, I'll pass.

[cal5000]

Ron says he is unaware of the amount of dogfighting in america etc. yet he was uninformed with his views on pitbulls just as killing machines who roam neighborhoods preying on kids and old women- like vampires. yet he maintained that ignorant viewpoint.
just annoyed me a bit.:icon_roll

You care so much big man, you post the dog fighting stats.

[Angelfuck]

fuck people, we suck, we have the ability to choose not to be selfish and we do it anyway, at least animals don't know any better

[Kid Brock]

Watch out for those German Short-haired pointers, they may be the most vicious of all the breeds.


http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e221/donky23/IMG_0699_edited.jpg

[Ben's Bulge]

I really don't get why people would get all upset that Ron or anyone for that matter doesn't care about dog fighting one way or the other. Does everyone have to be outraged at everything for some people?

[jackjack]

Everyone isn't enraged, (I'm so fucking tired of the other word it enrages me to see it) most people don't care and don't talk about it.
Just like any other topic, a few with big mouths get all the press while most people are busy with their lives and not noticing.

[captainboner]

Ving Fucking Rhames.

Ron is a hero.

Shame on his doubters.

[Reefer]

Fuck people, indeed . . .

cal5000, when you write - I read/hear: blah blah blah rah rah rah, blah blah blah, rah rah , blah rah.

I find your comments insightful and revealing.

Neither outraged, nor enraged . . .

Audi5000.
Reefer

[Reefer]

Im sorry for the Ving's trainer and family . . . dogs should be put down.


Ron is a great man, no question.

[Vyce]

Ron disgusted me like he hasn't in a long time with that bullshit.

[Vyce]

Can't we just look around the 37th wall and realize Ron likes to argue the 'other' side of lots of things because it makes for new discussion and thought.

Sure he does.

Most times it's not a position as retarded, or sadistic, as this one.

[jetfan10]

he had a great point when he asked ESD if he would be happy if the Giants signed Vick right now would he care about all this bullshit

[peopleselbow]

Ron - "The world would probably be better off if we were all vegans."

Wasn't Adolf Hitler a vegan? Is he trying to tell us something?

[Stormrider666]

Lets just remember few pointers about this situation.
1: Dogfighting is a brutal activity that is watched by individuals who for the most part are committing illegal activites. It is against the law. Is it as serious as **** or murder, no its not in the same ballpark, hell it ain't even in the same fucking league. But it is still against the law.
2: I do believe dogfighting is more common than most people think and its just not happening in the southern states. But I don't think its a widespread epedemic that people should lose sleep over.
3: I do eat meat and wear leather and am not naieve about what those animals go through to reach their final resting place. But till eating meat, wearing leather, and hunting for that matter becomes illegal, what are you going to do.
4: I fully support the testing of animals when it comes to helping cure diseases. PETA is a bunch of whining little bitches, but I do support their right to whine and protest.
5: As for the person in the middle of all this, Micheal Vick. The reason why he isn't in training camp, is because their is no way the Falcons could conduct a normal training camp, if he was there. He is still getting paid and he has not yet been suspended, unlike Pacman Jones, who was suspended for a year without getting indicted.
6: Would I want Micheal Vick on my team, uh no. Because like I have said before he is the most overrated quarterback of all time. Now if he was a running back or receiver than maybe yes. And if Vick does go to jail, I guareentee, that once he gets out, he will be signed by another team.
7:The NAACP and other organizations should not be supporting Micheal Vick. The only reason they are is because he is high profile and has money.
8: I wish there could be a discussion for a topic like this without resorting to some the stupidity that I read through this thread.
9. Ron is still the man and will always find his insights on various topics interesting. Some of them I will agree with, some I will disagree with.

[cal5000]

fuck people, we suck, we have the ability to choose not to be selfish and we do it anyway, at least animals don't know any better

Bullshit--animals will eat their yong to keep on living and cats torture things before they kill them.

Its the nature of life to inflict suffering on other living things.

[cal5000]

3: I do eat meat and wear leather and am not naieve about what those animals go through to reach their final resting place. But till eating meat, wearing leather, and hunting for that matter becomes illegal, what are you going to do.


Wear hemp you lazy, hypocritical fuck.

Or have the balls to say "I dont agree with it, but I dont give a fuck. This is America, do as you like."

[RENFIELD]

dog fighting ? i'm against it...
pedophilia ? i'm against it...
**** ? i'm against it...

of the 3... dog fighting doesn't rate a "rat's ass",
especially if it's invading MY neighborhood...
the other 2 blow it away.. outrage wise...

and that's all that was said by RON...
in the scheme of things... as horrendous as it might be,
dog fighting doesn't even register if the 'evil' it's being compared to
is that being done to a human being...

HE WASN'T GIVING THE 'OKAY' TO DOG FIGHTING...
IT WAS A MATTER OF PERSPECTIVE...

[striker]

Ron says he is unaware of the amount of dogfighting in america etc. yet he was uninformed with his views on pitbulls just as killing machines who roam neighborhoods preying on kids and old women- like vampires. yet he maintained that ignorant viewpoint.
just annoyed me a bit.:icon_roll

That is a bad viewpoint that pitbulls, rotweilers, etc. are inherently viscious. My dad is a dog warden and says that they are usually one of the most disciplined dogs he deals with. The problem is that they have jaws like an alligator and can rip your throat out. Any dog can be viscious, ironically poodles are the worst. But all they do is nip, maybe break the skin. Train a pitbull for dog fights or to protect a meth house, what the fuck do they expect?

Funny story that this reminded me off, on and off for about 15 yrs I worked part time delivering pizza. Was never afraid to go to a door, never had a problem any dog. Hell, one of our regular customers had three attack trained dobermans. The only time I ever got bit was by a fucking Chihuahua, 13 stitches to close the wound. Personally, I think we should euthanize all Chihuahua's.

[Angelfuck]

Bullshit--animals will eat their yong to keep on living and cats torture things before they kill them.

Its the nature of life to inflict suffering on other living things.

not really since like I said animals don't know any better, its built into them to do those things. For them its all about survival, cats play with things to hone their hunting skills. My cat doesnt know the difference between a leaf and a bug so he's obviously not playing with them to inflict suffering, especially since hes incapable of distinguishing a living thing from a dead leaf.

I agree with stormrider expect when it comes to animal testing, to some extent it is necessary but if you knew how redundant and completely unrealistic it was you might change your view. A rats chemistry is no where near ours, so it pretty much tells us nothing about how it would affect us when we test on animals.

[Reefer]

Good thoughts Anglefuck and Stormrider . . . revealing and insightful.
Everyone is becoming unmasked.

Its lame to create false comparisons about this issue. Dogfighting, does not compare to a whole slew of other sick shit that happens everyday in my backyard and around this world (read: Africa, Middle East, Asia, and ghettos everywhere, etc . . .) . . . doesn't mean I am going to condone this behavior, or classify it, as anything less than sick. Lets keep the red herring, in the ocean.

[oafanwyo]

Dogfighting makes me sick. I don't know how anybody can watch this shit. Not when you can watch a monkey with a bat fight a 4 year old kid in spongebob pajamas!!!!!!

!!! Rock on Ronny B. !!!!

[cal5000]

Fuck people, indeed . . .

cal5000, when you write - I read/hear: blah blah blah rah rah rah, blah blah blah, rah rah , blah rah.

I find your comments insightful and revealing.

Neither outraged, nor enraged . . .

Audi5000.
Reefer

And I hear your pussy drip when you post.

The last thing the world needs is another limp dick, soft hearted pot head.

I can guarantee you Ive been through more dope (smoked and sold) than youve ever seen and been to Iraq. Twice.

Shut it, crybaby.

Didnt you say Jesus cares for all dogs? Even the ones that kill people?

Take your ballon and take the walk down the midway.

[cal5000]

not really since like I said animals don't know any better, its built into them to do those things. For them its all about survival, cats play with things to hone their hunting skills. My cat doesnt know the difference between a leaf and a bug so he's obviously not playing with them to inflict suffering, especially since hes incapable of distinguishing a living thing from a dead leaf.

I agree with stormrider expect when it comes to animal testing, to some extent it is necessary but if you knew how redundant and completely unrealistic it was you might change your view. A rats chemistry is no where near ours, so it pretty much tells us nothing about how it would affect us when we test on animals.

You have no way of proving any of that. You like to think theyre innocent but you have shit to base that on.

Even science cant prove intention of "evil" in anything. Sure a dog cant do calculus but so what. That doesnt mean they arent evil or have the capacity for maliciousness.

You can have an opinion, but thats all it is.

[Angelfuck]

yup, thats pretty much all anyone has, but it is an educated opinion. during human development studies, I study behaviorism, a philosophy based around animalistic behavior that simply doesn't apply to humans because our existence is not based solely on reactions to our environment

[jackjack]

animalistic behavior that simply doesn't apply to humans because our existence is not based sole on reactions to our environment

Now there's a topic for pot talk Monday..
Depends on what you define our environment as.

I disagree with the people that think if humans created something, it is unnatural.
Doesn't mean we aren't capable of ruining shit. But it's still nature taking its course.

[Angelfuck]

that would be an interesting topic but you're going in a whole 'nother direction with that :p environment meaning outside factors or actions imposed on the animal that cause them to react, I guess the best example would be pavlov's dogs

[cal5000]

http://www.petakillsanimals.com/

[cal5000]

http://www.kirotv.com/news/13943140/detail.html

Woman Seriously Hurt In Pit Bull Attack
GIG HARBOR, Wash. -- Two pit bulls that entered a Gig Harbor home through a pet door attacked and severely injured a woman while she slept, sheriff's deputies told KIRO 7 Eyewitness News.

The dogs may have gone into the house to attack another dog, according to animal control officers. They attacked the woman in her bed as she tried to fight off the dogs.

Deputies said the woman got a gun and fired at the dogs, but the attack continued. She was eventually able to escape the house, get into her car and call 911.

According to deputies, after the pit bulls attacked the woman they went after a neighbor’s Jack Russell terrier, killing it.“They’ve had problems over there before a couple of houses down with the dogs. It’s one of those things. We just hope Sue is OK,” neighbor Ricky Russell said.

Pierce County animal control officers were able to capture the pit bulls.

“Highly aggressive, people aggressive, animal aggressive. They attacked a Jack Russell terrier out there and they attacked the lady pretty severely,” Brian Boman, with animal control, said.

According to investigators, the dogs were determined and difficult to stop.

“We ended up having to pepper spray them an our deputies thought they might have to terminate the dogs out there, that’s how vicious they were,” Detective Ed Troyer said.

The woman is at St. Joseph's hospital and is listed in satisfactory condition, according to a hospital spokesman.

The victim is disabled. Her dog is a caretaker dog, according to a neighbor.

[Sidekick Dave]

I almost always agree with Ron but not on this particular issue. Here are some of my points:

Humans choose in engage in violent acts. Animals don't.

When animals do engage in violence it for survival, not for sport.

True, people do eat meat and wear leather. But they were not tortured like what happens in animal fights. I doubt that there is anyone who would rather die quickly rather than being tortured to death.

Yes, there are bigger problems in this country than dog fighting, but that does not excuse it. If we go with the ideology that we should only worry about bigger problems then only thing we should ever worry about is nuclear war and should ignore all the other problems of the world. Crimes, both great and small, need to have consequences. He is not going to be put to death or put in prison for the rest of his life but he does need to have a consequence for his crime if he is in fact guilty of it.

Vick (who is still being paid his full salary by the way) is simply being told not to show for practice and lost his endorsements for, at the very least, associating with criminals. It brings a bad light to the NFL and this type of negative stigma will kill a league because perception is reality. Whether it is true or not, the NBA is seen as more “thuggish” than the NFL and MLB. Because of that until the NBA does something to improve their image they will always be in 3rd place behind the other major sports. Being #1, the NFL can’t afford to throw all the players, coaches, and personnel associated with the league under the bus just for one player.

I still think Ron is the man though.
You said it, I thought it!