Iran threatens missile attacks on US targets

[Schmed]

Iran threatens missile attacks on US targets


By David Blair, Diplomatic Correspondent
Last Updated: 2:30am BST 18/09/2007


Iran threatened to fire long-range missiles at American targets in the Middle East yesterday as the war of words between Teheran and the West continued to escalate.
Banks recruited to wage financial war on Teheran (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml;jsessionid=MS2LNUBHJFDRXQFIQMGCFFWAVCBQ UIV0?xml=/news/2007/09/18/wiran218.xml)
Why Iran's economy is struggling (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml;jsessionid=MS2LNUBHJFDRXQFIQMGCFFWAVCBQ UIV0?xml=/news/2007/09/18/wiran318.xml)
Audio: Iran's war of words (javascript:newWindow('http://www.mediaplayer.telegraph.co.uk/?item=733016AE-0162-40D8-823E-0DC6A6DFD54C','tcuk_mediaplayer','width=750,height =600,scrollbars=no'))
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/graphics/2007/09/18/wiran118.jpg (javascript:newWindow('/news/graphics/2007/09/18/wiran118big.jpg','gtc','width=1200,height=450,scro llbars=1,resizable'))Iran's missile range: Click to enlarge (javascript:newWindow('/news/graphics/2007/09/18/wiran118big.jpg','gtc','width=1200,height=450,scro llbars=1,resizable'))A senior commander of the Revolutionary Guard, the largest component of the Islamic republic's armed forces, chose this moment to outline the capability of his country's ballistic missiles.
The Shahab-3 rocket has a range of 1,250 miles, allowing it to strike an array of Western targets across the Middle East.
"Today the Americans are around our country but this does not mean that they are encircling us. They are encircled themselves and are within our range," said Gen Mohammed Hassan Koussechi.
"If the United States is saying that they have identified 2,000 targets in Iran, then what is certain is that it is the Americans who are all around Iran and are equally our targets," he told the official IRNA news agency.
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if(command.indexOf('tz')!=-1)eval(command);
Gen Koussechi added: "We have reached capacities that allow us to hit the enemy at a range of 2,000 kilometres."
A wide array of possible targets faces Iran across the Gulf. Dubai, filled with Western companies, tourists and expatriates, is only 105 miles away.
Iran's armed forces already occupy Abu Musa, an island claimed by the United Arab Emirates, 40 miles from Dubai.
Other potential targets include the oilfields in Saudi Arabia's Eastern province, the headquarters of America's Central Command in Qatar and the main harbour of the US Fifth Fleet in Bahrain. RAF Akrotiri in Cyprus is also in range.
Tension over Iran's nuclear programme is now building. Teheran continues to defy three UN resolutions by enriching uranium, which could produce the essential material for a nuclear bomb.
Later this month, America will probably seek the Security Council's support for a new resolution imposing more sanctions on Iran.
President Nicolas Sarkozy has toughened France's approach towards Teheran, with Bernard Kouchner, his foreign minister, giving warning at the weekend that the world should "prepare for the worst and the worst is war".
Teheran responded yesterday by accusing Mr Sarkozy of being an American stooge.
Iran is enriching uranium using centrifuges. It aims to install 3,000 at the underground nuclear plant in Natanz.
Once it has succeeded — and the technical barriers are formidable — Iran would need about one year to produce enough weapons-grade uranium for one bomb.
The International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) has reached a new agreement with Iran designed to lay to rest any fears that Teheran is developing a nuclear bomb.
But Western diplomats say the IAEA agreement contains one flaw — it does not specify that Iran must stop enriching uranium. However, Mohamed ElBaradei, head of the IAEA, said that any talk of war was "hype". He added: "People need to bear with us."
• American forces yesterday captured 12 Iraqis who they accuse of smuggling weapons from Iran. The men, who were detained in Baghdad, had prepared and stockpiled an especially lethal variety of roadside bomb, said the US military.

[THE FEZ MAN]

fuck iran, what they keep forgetting is although were involved in political quagmire in iraq, we bowled over there army, they dont have a chance in a real shooting war.

[mendozathejew]

Iran is tough. alot tougher than any of the arabs. and hezbollah is arguably a better fighting force than al qaeda.

but unlike the arabs, Iran actually has a population that would fight for a western styled government/democracy

[Stalker2]

If they fuck with us,it`s over within a matter of seconds.

[Your_Moms_Box]

Jusat what we need, more destabalized governments in the middle east :)

[Glenn Dandy]

parking lot.

[THE FEZ MAN]

un less the gooks decide to get involved, then there might be trouble.

[mendozathejew]

Last week Israel entered Syrian Airspace. It hasnt been reported much in the US because NO ONE is talking about it. no one in the intel community in israel or the us is speaking to their usual contacts in the media about it. this was the breakdown that happened.

1. Syria claims Israel entered their airspace. no repsonse from Israel. North Korea protests Israels actions
2. CNN reports that Israel entered Syria and bombers hit supplies headed to hezbullah
3. The New York Times says that Israel actually blew up North Korean nuclear facilities that were set up in Syria. and ground forces may have been used.

the next info that came out was that Turkey has been helping the US and Israel with intel on this. and that the North Koreans have been selling what they have left of their nuclear program to Iran and Syria.

the real problem is something G Gordon Liddy actually said to the boys a couple years ago. that Iran is willling to absorb retaliation for a nuclear attack on Israel. Israel would certainly fire nuclear weapons from the ground, air and sea at both Syria and Iran.

this is really dangerous shit. ofcourse we can blow up Iran and take out their armed forces. but its gona be very messy. and hezbollah committing terrorism in the US would be a real threat

[Stalker2]

They are big mouths because they have Russia backing them.I say take them out.

[MrBogey]

Iran is tough. alot tougher than any of the arabs. and hezbollah is arguably a better fighting force than al qaeda.

but unlike the arabs, Iran actually has a population that would fight for a western styled government/democracy

There's 2 things that people weighing. Us kicking our ass and us occupying them.

If we keep it simple, knock them down and destory their civilization, then leave... well it'll be easy.

Occupying them is the hard part.

[mendozathejew]

There's 2 things that people weighing. Us kicking our ass and us occupying them.

If we keep it simple, knock them down and destory their civilization, then leave... well it'll be easy.

Occupying them is the hard part.

definitely. but atleast in iran, theres a considerable portion of the population, especially the young, who would fight for democracy. Unlike in Iraq, there are roots for a democracy in Iran

but an all out hezbollah campaign would be brutal

[datsyukian deek]

Solution:

Let Iran take over Iraq. Let them do what they must to finish what was started in the 80s and end it. After that then we'll all be super friends.:action-sm

[stillbornstew]

our military is streched DANGEROULSY thin as it is. trust me on this. any campaign involving iran would be 10x as disastrous as the iraq occupation.

[mendozathejew]

our military is streched DANGEROULSY thin as it is. trust me on this. any campaign involving iran would be 10x as disastrous as the iraq occupation.

we're already going to battle with an occupation against Iran. and they havent even finished forming the Iraqi chapter of Hezbollah yet. our troops definitely have to be out of Iraq to even deal with a situation like this, you know all this far better than I.

but we're headed for a real problem if the north koreans are already helping Syria and Iran. Because Iran truly is willing to trade nukes with Israel. and thats a catastrophe that we couldnt and wouldnt sit out (assuming the US wouldnt be attacked directly as well).

look the potential presidents that will have to deal with this mess. Hillary wont sit it out if Israel has a million or two killed. Giuliani wont either. McKain wont, I dont think Obama would even sit it out. because Israel would respond, 10 fold, and Iran has to be believed that it will attack the US if that happens. this is the reality of this potential mess. Israel blowing up potential North Korean nuclear facilities in Syria last week was a really big deal

[Treat_Yourself]

Sometimes I think the CDC should dispose of some of their smallpox samples in Mecca during the Haj. I know not all Muslims are scum, but the assholes among them almost make me think it would be worth getting rid of all of them.

[TheDrip]

parking lot.

The President has spoken. Time to make it happen.

[Earth2murf]

that are not arabs they are persians.....http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persian_people

[Treat_Yourself]

that are not arabs they are persians.....http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persian_people

Did someone call them Arabs?

[Legend of Snuka]

Our ground forces are stretched thin, but we still got a nasty airforce and navy that can wipe out Iran's ability to attack in a week...Plus, we could start breaking out some Area 51 shit if things got heavy

[Kris_LTRMa]

So Ahmadinejad is asking to visit Ground Zero and at the same time the Revolutionary Guard is threatening to bomb us. What's wrong with that picture?

I agree with our President Dandy - turn the whole region into a parking lot.

[UCFGavin]

its a good thing we haven't been wasting troops and money so that we might actually be able to defend ourselves against a threat like this....oh wait....

[Sprite]

HEADLINE FROM THE FUTURE! Just replace Iraq with Iran in the image and make-believe you're reading cnn.com/ebonics. (oh if i only had photoshop skillz)

http://img503.imageshack.us/img503/7863/iraqcnnau2.jpg

[Sam_Adams]

Well I'm not going to try to predict what may or may not happen. All I know is that I'm ready here at home.

[Fr. Dougal]

edit: In any case, at work today, I was given crap because of a mispronounciation of Ahmadinejad's name. I said ah-MAD-ee-na-jahd. I was told the proper pronouncer is ah-ma-DEEN-a-jahd. Should we really be caring about this cunt's feelings? Fuck him, fuck his name... I'll call him what I want.

[sniper2323]

parking lot.

Also help them with export....

Glass, lots of it.:action-sm

[stillbornstew]

we're already going to battle with an occupation against Iran. and they havent even finished forming the Iraqi chapter of Hezbollah yet. our troops definitely have to be out of Iraq to even deal with a situation like this, you know all this far better than I.

but we're headed for a real problem if the north koreans are already helping Syria and Iran. Because Iran truly is willing to trade nukes with Israel. and thats a catastrophe that we couldnt and wouldnt sit out (assuming the US wouldnt be attacked directly as well).

look the potential presidents that will have to deal with this mess. Hillary wont sit it out if Israel has a million or two killed. Giuliani wont either. McKain wont, I dont think Obama would even sit it out. because Israel would respond, 10 fold, and Iran has to be believed that it will attack the US if that happens. this is the reality of this potential mess. Israel blowing up potential North Korean nuclear facilities in Syria last week was a really big deal


and look what finally popped up on MSN:

www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20899492/

[mendozathejew]

and look what finally popped up on MSN:

www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20899492/

yeah this is serious stuff. the way that israeli raid played out in the media is pretty interesting. pretty much no one in the US and Israel is talking about it. intel sources only talked twice about it, once to CNN and another time to the NY Times.

Turkey has apparently been helping the US and Israel with intel about these North Korean installations for nuclear purposes. Israel has been taking photos through various means, but this raid apparently did happen. 8 fighter jets and special forces on the ground went in and blew something up

Olmert and Abbas really are intent on coming to some peace deal between the PA in the west bank and Israel. and historically, thats ALWAYS when the terrorism kicks in, hamas starts with suicide attacks, thats what hezbollah did after israel left the west bank. its always been the process- peace talks and progress = renewed fighting

[Sam_Adams]

Olmert and Abbas really are intent on coming to some peace deal between the PA in the west bank and Israel. and historically, thats ALWAYS when the terrorism kicks in

Come on now, that's just silly talk. We all know that sandnaggers are rational people and they aren't out to kill people that don't believe the same scribble in a book that they do.

I'm sure it will work this time. The 261st time is a charm, right?

[stillbornstew]

yeah this is serious stuff. the way that israeli raid played out in the media is pretty interesting. pretty much no one in the US and Israel is talking about it. intel sources only talked twice about it, once to CNN and another time to the NY Times.

Turkey has apparently been helping the US and Israel with intel about these North Korean installations for nuclear purposes. Israel has been taking photos through various means, but this raid apparently did happen. 8 fighter jets and special forces on the ground went in and blew something up

Olmert and Abbas really are intent on coming to some peace deal between the PA in the west bank and Israel. and historically, thats ALWAYS when the terrorism kicks in, hamas starts with suicide attacks, thats what hezbollah did after israel left the west bank. its always been the process- peace talks and progress = renewed fighting


it is indeed very unsettling.

[UCFGavin]

yeah this is serious stuff. the way that israeli raid played out in the media is pretty interesting. pretty much no one in the US and Israel is talking about it. intel sources only talked twice about it, once to CNN and another time to the NY Times.

Turkey has apparently been helping the US and Israel with intel about these North Korean installations for nuclear purposes. Israel has been taking photos through various means, but this raid apparently did happen. 8 fighter jets and special forces on the ground went in and blew something up

Olmert and Abbas really are intent on coming to some peace deal between the PA in the west bank and Israel. and historically, thats ALWAYS when the terrorism kicks in, hamas starts with suicide attacks, thats what hezbollah did after israel left the west bank. its always been the process- peace talks and progress = renewed fighting

the whole situation is fucked. if we didn't have the internet, i honestly believe that everyone here would still have the "they hate us for our freedom" mentality. we meddle and do so much shit over in the middle east, its surprising we haven't been getting consistent terror attacks for the last 20 years.

there will never be peace in the middle east, and the current lobbying in washington by israel is nuts. i'm pretty sure they want to go to war again, but this time they want it to be under a US banner.

[sniper2323]

the whole situation is fucked. if we didn't have the internet, i honestly believe that everyone here would still have the "they hate us for our freedom" mentality. we meddle and do so much shit over in the middle east, its surprising we haven't been getting consistent terror attacks for the last 20 years.

there will never be peace in the middle east, and the current lobbying in washington by israel is nuts. i'm pretty sure they want to go to war again, but this time they want it to be under a US banner.

Further what is amazing is, with the internet, people still only look for stuff they believe and don't look at the other side of the debate, and try to understand the other side. I have, and I see many flaws in the cut and run crowd, more in the we should not have even gone crowd.

Israel, has done a partal cut and run when they gave some land back, yes I said back, and what happened, oh thats rights the attacks on Israel continued. So being nice and trying to get along didn't work so hot.

[mendozathejew]

the whole situation is fucked. if we didn't have the internet, i honestly believe that everyone here would still have the "they hate us for our freedom" mentality. we meddle and do so much shit over in the middle east, its surprising we haven't been getting consistent terror attacks for the last 20 years.

there will never be peace in the middle east, and the current lobbying in washington by israel is nuts. i'm pretty sure they want to go to war again, but this time they want it to be under a US banner.

the cycle of violence that many like to describe, describing it as the reason there will never be peace is the easy way to comment on this conflict. its a cop out, a good way to avoid the fact that you have almost no understanding of the historical facts, and the time line and political reasons for the fighting that flares up.

Israel truly despises having to fight as it must. defending itself against terrorists in Gaza, the West Bank, or Lebanon requires a viciousness that they truly despise. But they like living a whole lot more than they hate fighting. If it were up to them, they'll never fight Hezbollah in Lebanon again.

But thats not a decision Israel will make. Iran and Hezbollah will make that call

[sniper2323]

the cycle of violence that many like to describe, describing it as the reason there will never be peace is the easy way to comment on this conflict. its a cop out, a good way to avoid the fact that you have almost no understanding of the historical facts, and the time line and political reasons for the fighting that flares up.

Israel truly despises having to fight as it must. defending itself against terrorists in Gaza, the West Bank, or Lebanon requires a viciousness that they truly despise. But they like living a whole lot more than they hate fighting. If it were up to them, they'll never fight Hezbollah in Lebanon again.

But thats not a decision Israel will make. Iran and Hezbollah will make that call


:clap::clap::clap::clap:

[KingTheoden84]

Umm, Iran simply said that if they are attacked that their response would include missile attacks. WTF are they supposed to do, just sit there and take it up the ass?

Israel keeps making threats and just bombed Syria two weeks ago. The US has ships galore of the Iranian coast and special forces in Iran, not to mention 200 000+ troops on both borders. And some of you are saying 'nuke them?' Are you fucking insane?

[mendozathejew]

Iran funds, trains, and supplies hezbollah, which have attacked Israel and the US for many years. so, once again king theoden, what little of an argument you have presented holds little water

[Vyce]

Israel, has done a partal cut and run when they gave some land back, yes I said back, and what happened, oh thats rights the attacks on Israel continued. So being nice and trying to get along didn't work so hot.

I would have thought that people would have learned that lesson from, oh, Chamberlain, but apparently people have short membries.

Or, as mendoza said, they just know fuck-all about history.

[sniper2323]

I would have thought that people would have learned that lesson from, oh, Chamberlain, but apparently people have short membries.

Or, as mendoza said, they just know fuck-all about history.

x2

I didn't want to go back that far, because of the short memory thing...
Hell most people can't remeber what happned last week, let alone 60+ years of history. :arrrh:

[BloodyDiaper]

Israel, has done a partal cut and run when they gave some land back, yes I said back, and what happened, oh thats rights the attacks on Israel continued. So being nice and trying to get along didn't work so hot.


I would have thought that people would have learned that lesson from, oh, Chamberlain, but apparently people have short membries.

Or, as mendoza said, they just know fuck-all about history.

A history lesson for those who think Israel "gave land back":


...
Almost all the Israelis really believe the occupation of Gaza is over. The Palestinians there are now free to run their lives as they like, and Israel has nothing to do with it. They envisage a similar scenario being realized, or perhaps realized already, for the West Bank behind the Wall.

This fiction has become popular since the Israeli withdrawal from the Gaza Strip last summer; but its roots go back to the Oslo years, when especially the Zionist Left (Yossi Sarid, et al.) cultivated the myth that a Palestinian state in fact already existed, or was about to emerge within a fortnight (not later than 1998, as the Oslo Accords indeed stated; remember also Bush's broken deadline). In fact, this fiction represents a deep Israeli desire to deny: since the liberal Israeli knows the occupation cannot go together with democracy and justice, the occupation should disappear – but in a virtual way, by being denied. On a deeper level, many Israeli liberals believe Arabs cannot go together with culture and modernity, so denying their existence, both virtually and actually, by locking the undesired neighbors behind a big Wall and forgetting all about them, sounds like a pretty good solution.

"We're here, they're there" was Ehud Barak's sophisticated "peace slogan." The actual power relations between "here" and "there" have to be denied; in fact, the only thing that reminds the Israelis of these power relations is the Palestinian violent resistance. Were it not for "terrorism" (a term used indiscriminately for both legitimate and illegitimate Palestinian violence), the Israelis would have happily forgotten all about their locked-up neighbors by now. Accordingly, the persistent homemade Qassam missiles that terrorize the Israeli town of Sderot are conceptualized by Israelis as typical Arab ingratitude, as shameless ungratefulness for the great gift that Israel has presented the Palestinians by withdrawing from Gaza, allegedly restoring their freedom, honor, and well-being.

The reality is different. Having pulled its settlers out of Gaza, Israel is now imposing a total siege on the tiny Strip: the 1.5 million Palestinians locked up there have no access to the sea (Israel never let the Gaza seaport be built), no access to the air (Israel destroyed the Gaza airport), and all the crossings are under Israeli control (i.e., practically closed most of the time). Since the Hamas victory in the elections, Israel and the international community have also been imposing an economic siege on the Strip, severing the financial ties with the Palestinian authority; to pay their Authority's employees, the Palestinians have to smuggle cash through the crossings. Israel's "security system" – the Occupation incarnated – is the one who decides whether Gazans will have flour, medicines, and any other goods, how much, and when.

While this economic and physical siege is being imposed by air, sea, and land, and while Gaza is daily bombarded by missiles, artillery, and naval fire, "center-left" Israelis can say things like "Israel has left Gaza. The Palestinians could use this fact to finally rebuild Gaza, to build houses for refugees, to encourage investments, and to create jobs. Gazans could finally live like humans" (quoted from a letter to the excellent Hebrew Web site Ha'okets).

The situation in the West Bank is not so very different. The Palestinians there are locked in smaller cages than in Gaza, but the siege is less hermetic. While the Palestinians are locked behind huge walls, with a satanic system of roadblocks and permits, and sliced by roads-for-Jews-only and by settlements, harassed day and night by army incursions into their villages, houses, and bedrooms, many Israelis believe the occupation is now retreating, and its end is just a matter of time, or rather of semantics.

Alas, colonialism does not disappear by being denied; in fact, the Israeli occupation is at its peak, worse than ever before. There is no better evidence for that than the discussion about whether or not there is a humanitarian crisis in Palestine, once a rich Land of Milk and Honey.

Ha'aretz reported Tuesday that the Knesset would debate a new bill, harshly criticized by leading jurists, that would make it possible to extend a suspect's remand without him being present in court, and to prevent him from seeing a lawyer for 30 consecutive days. The bill was submitted by the Justice Ministry and is supported by the Shin Bet security service.


If you wonder why such a bill is suddenly needed, or who these "suspects" might be, you'll first have to learn Hebrew; Ha'aretz's version in this language explains: "Till the ending of the military regime in the Gaza Strip, the investigation authorities had wider powers than those granted by the Detention Law. Now that the military regime in Gaza has ended, a special law is needed to give the security services wider enforcement powers." A few days after this debate, as if to make a point, the Israeli army entered the Gaza Strip and, for the first time since the withdrawal, abducted – "arrested" – two Palestinians.The occupation is over, long live the occupation.

http://antiwar.com/hacohen/?articleid=9178

[sniper2323]

A history lesson for those who think Israel "gave land back":



http://antiwar.com/hacohen/?articleid=9178


Wow, I am surprised...

A anti-war site not backing up Israel, and siding with the Palestinians.
:icon_eek::icon_roll

[UCFGavin]

Further what is amazing is, with the internet, people still only look for stuff they believe and don't look at the other side of the debate, and try to understand the other side. I have, and I see many flaws in the cut and run crowd, more in the we should not have even gone crowd.

Israel, has done a partal cut and run when they gave some land back, yes I said back, and what happened, oh thats rights the attacks on Israel continued. So being nice and trying to get along didn't work so hot.

you can say i don't try to understand the other side, but it isn't true. i voted for W in the last election and i bought this bullshit "war on terror". you say you see many flaws in the opposing viewpoint crowds, yet support a continued decline in our own country with no real desire to get out of it. we have no business being in the middle east, and our national debt has gone up $3 trillion since bush has been in office.

please tell me how you plan to save our country while protecting every human life around the world.

and i don't give a shit about israel. let them deal with their own problems. they are not ours. we MUST fix our own country before we intervene with anyone else.

[UCFGavin]

the cycle of violence that many like to describe, describing it as the reason there will never be peace is the easy way to comment on this conflict. its a cop out, a good way to avoid the fact that you have almost no understanding of the historical facts, and the time line and political reasons for the fighting that flares up.

Israel truly despises having to fight as it must. defending itself against terrorists in Gaza, the West Bank, or Lebanon requires a viciousness that they truly despise. But they like living a whole lot more than they hate fighting. If it were up to them, they'll never fight Hezbollah in Lebanon again.

But thats not a decision Israel will make. Iran and Hezbollah will make that call

so where does it say we must intervene and ruin our own country in the mean time?

[UCFGavin]

Iran funds, trains, and supplies hezbollah, which have attacked Israel and the US for many years. so, once again king theoden, what little of an argument you have presented holds little water

so you would like to see an invasion and occupation in iran as well?

[mendozathejew]

so you would like to see an invasion and occupation in iran as well?

no, fighting between Israel and Hezbollah will resume when Iran decides, with another attack started by Hezbollah to follow it. your lack of knowledge on this subject, and especially your interpretations of other's posts now borders on the comical.

its funny, you just blindly throw out there- "israel wants another war." you dont back it up with any facts. infact that statement is about as far from the truth as possible. Israel has done everything possible to avoid large scale operations in Gaza even as Kassam rockets fly over the border daily. another poster in this thread said whats the big deal, they are ancient technology. well, thats easy to say when they arent landing in your backyard, or at your childs school yard- as they do everyday.

and given all that, there still hasnt been a major response from Israel because Olmert is doing everything he can to reach agreements with Abbas, and thats been his focus for some time.

and regarding the attacks from Hamas and Hezbollah starting last summer- it was truly an amazing accomplishment for those organizations. The Saudis and Egyptians blamed them and their supporters for a war with Israel. when has that ever happened, the arabs defending the Israel in a conflict?

[Schmed]

the cycle of violence that many like to describe, describing it as the reason there will never be peace is the easy way to comment on this conflict. its a cop out, a good way to avoid the fact that you have almost no understanding of the historical facts, and the time line and political reasons for the fighting that flares up.

Israel truly despises having to fight as it must. defending itself against terrorists in Gaza, the West Bank, or Lebanon requires a viciousness that they truly despise. But they like living a whole lot more than they hate fighting. If it were up to them, they'll never fight Hezbollah in Lebanon again.

But thats not a decision Israel will make. Iran and Hezbollah will make that call

Israel needs a bit of Golda in the house to settle the surrounding savages.

[Schmed]

The Middle East is going to buy us with all that oil money, now they want 20% of the NASDAQ, what's next we outsource our military to China, WTF ? What we need is Ft. Levinworth for these senators, congress-persons and our commander-in-thief that are arranging these deals.

There are some interests that should never go beyond domestic ownership.

Other than that, the dollar is doomed.
1 USD = 1 CAD
1.42 USD = 1 EUR
Holy Shit!!!!

[UCFGavin]

no, fighting between Israel and Hezbollah will resume when Iran decides, with another attack started by Hezbollah to follow it. your lack of knowledge on this subject, and especially your interpretations of other's posts now borders on the comical.

its funny, you just blindly throw out there- "israel wants another war." you dont back it up with any facts. infact that statement is about as far from the truth as possible. Israel has done everything possible to avoid large scale operations in Gaza even as Kassam rockets fly over the border daily. another poster in this thread said whats the big deal, they are ancient technology. well, thats easy to say when they arent landing in your backyard, or at your childs school yard- as they do everyday.

and given all that, there still hasnt been a major response from Israel because Olmert is doing everything he can to reach agreements with Abbas, and thats been his focus for some time.

and regarding the attacks from Hamas and Hezbollah starting last summer- it was truly an amazing accomplishment for those organizations. The Saudis and Egyptians blamed them and their supporters for a war with Israel. when has that ever happened, the arabs defending the Israel in a conflict?

did Israel not just bomb North Korean installments in Syria? have they not said they'll bomb Iran if they start to develop nuclear weapons? The US just decided to give Israel $30 billion in military aid, definitely a step in the peace direction. here are some links:

US and Israel in $30bn arms deal
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/6948981.stm

Israel bombing a North Korea site in Syria
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070921/ts_nm/usa_israel_strikes_dc_1

Israel getting pissy when Iran talks about defending itself if attacked
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7003143.stm


i don't support hamas or hezbollah. any organization that specifically targets civilians needs to fucking rot. they all deserve death. also, i do not want iran to have a nuke. i do not want terrorist attacks to continue in israel. i wish the palestinians would have taken Israel's offer when the offered them land.

however, the US is not helping in the middle east, we make it worse and find ourselves turning on our once "allies" as long as it suits our purpose. we constantly stick our noses where they don't belong.

you support israel attacking other countries in the middle east, and thats your stance to take. however, i do not want to see the US getting involved unless her borders are being threatened. as long as we stay in the middle east and people continue to die (on our side and theirs), there will be no shortage of terrorist recruiting. yet our country continues to take hit after hit and we do nothing to try and fix her.

[Schmed]

did Israel not just bomb North Korean installments in Syria? have they not said they'll bomb Iran if they start to develop nuclear weapons? The US just decided to give Israel $30 billion in military aid, definitely a step in the peace direction. here are some links:

US and Israel in $30bn arms deal
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/6948981.stm

Israel bombing a North Korea site in Syria
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070921/ts_nm/usa_israel_strikes_dc_1

Israel getting pissy when Iran talks about defending itself if attacked
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7003143.stm


i don't support hamas or hezbollah. any organization that specifically targets civilians needs to fucking rot. they all deserve death. also, i do not want iran to have a nuke. i do not want terrorist attacks to continue in israel. i wish the palestinians would have taken Israel's offer when the offered them land.

however, the US is not helping in the middle east, we make it worse and find ourselves turning on our once "allies" as long as it suits our purpose. we constantly stick our noses where they don't belong.

you support israel attacking other countries in the middle east, and thats your stance to take. however, i do not want to see the US getting involved unless her borders are being threatened. as long as we stay in the middle east and people continue to die (on our side and theirs), there will be no shortage of terrorist recruiting. yet our country continues to take hit after hit and we do nothing to try and fix her.

I agree, I have no problem bringing our boys home and re-deploying them on our southern border to stop the Mexican and Latin American invaders (among OTMs that are mixed in).

[Southpaw]

A history lesson for those who think Israel "gave land back":



http://antiwar.com/hacohen/?articleid=9178


Not to mention the fact that while "pulling out" from Gaza, Israel continued to expand settlements, in violation of international law and "official" US policy, on the West Bank. "Giving land back" really means exchanging undesirable land for desireable land.

[sniper2323]

did Israel not just bomb North Korean installments in Syria? have they not said they'll bomb Iran if they start to develop nuclear weapons? The US just decided to give Israel $30 billion in military aid, definitely a step in the peace direction. here are some links:

US and Israel in $30bn arms deal
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/6948981.stm

Israel bombing a North Korea site in Syria
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070921/ts_nm/usa_israel_strikes_dc_1

Israel getting pissy when Iran talks about defending itself if attacked
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7003143.stm


i don't support hamas or hezbollah. any organization that specifically targets civilians needs to fucking rot. they all deserve death. also, i do not want iran to have a nuke. i do not want terrorist attacks to continue in israel. i wish the palestinians would have taken Israel's offer when the offered them land.

however, the US is not helping in the middle east, we make it worse and find ourselves turning on our once "allies" as long as it suits our purpose. we constantly stick our noses where they don't belong.

you support israel attacking other countries in the middle east, and thats your stance to take. however, i do not want to see the US getting involved unless her borders are being threatened. as long as we stay in the middle east and people continue to die (on our side and theirs), there will be no shortage of terrorist recruiting. yet our country continues to take hit after hit and we do nothing to try and fix her.

Well, in my eyes and alot of other, our borders are threatend by more nukes in possesion of unstabe governments, and governments that support terrorists. Do some research, you will see that Syria is no friend of ours or Israel. Who has been a great allie, who has supplied massive amounts of intel to find people who would do us harm. Simply turning a blind eye, and do nothing because it isn't on our border makes no sense. It has been proven time and time again, to be proactive then reactive. Why wait to have a terrorist attack on our soil to do something about it, then take the fight to them.

I agree, I have no problem bringing our boys home and re-deploying them on our southern border to stop the Mexican and Latin American invaders (among OTMs that are mixed in).

I would agree to a point.

If they were brought home and deployed on BOTH borders. I live 7 miles from Canada in Idaho. It is not strange to see B.C. bud mules hiking across the border. Human smuggling still happeneds here. We have a large amount of "Migrant workers" that work here in the summer, and they come from both borders. I would never support pulling our troops out until the job is done, to pull out would allow terrorists to have massive free run to train and work on weapons that could be brought to our borders.

I voted both times for G.W.B. and I am VERY dissappointed in how he has done things. The second time I voted for him, I thought he would kick ass, as he would not have to worry about re-election, sadly, I was wrong.

Now we can argue all we want about not going in there in the first place, the facts are we are there now, pulling them out by next weekend is not going to happen. You can blame both sides for dont doing the job, nether has done anything. If the Dems wanted our troops back, they could do it. If the Repubs. wanted to win this war asap when it began, they could have. The problem is, as stated before, they want to control every aspect of the military, but also avoids making the hard calls, and wants to look good to everyone so the can be re-elected. The is, as I see it, the problem whith most everything when it comes to our military, and the government refuses to look back at history and see if they keep thier noses out of it, we win, if they fart around and change the rules every hour, we lose. That is the fact as I see them.

Again, as said before, if we turn our back and do nothing the problem will go away, just doesn't hold up. Thats what we did with Hitler. We thought he would be happy with europe, and what did we learn from that.

[sniper2323]

by Stuart Williams
Sat Sep 22, 8:06 AM ET



Iran on Saturday showed off a longer-range missile in public for the first time and proclaimed a string of anti-Israel slogans, in a military parade held amid warnings of conflict with the West.

The missile -- labelled Ghadr-1 (Power) -- was said to be in development by Western experts, but its appearance at the annual military parade to mark the start of Iran's 1980-1988 war with Iraq was its first public showing.

The official announcer at the parade told reporters that the weapon had a range of 1,800 kilometres (1,100 miles), sufficient to put US bases in the Middle East and Iran's arch enemy Israel within reach.

"The Iranian nation is ready to bring any oppressive power to its knees," read a slogan from supreme leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei inscribed on a massive board on a truck.

The head of Iran's elite Revolutionary Guards, Mohammad Jaafari, warned bluntly: "My message to the enemy is that they will regret it (an attack). Do not do it."

The Ghadr missile, which has a "baby bottle" style nose for extra aerodynamic efficiency, is seen as an improved version of Iran's existing longer-range Shahab series, which was also paraded.

Officials have said in the past that the Shahab-3 could reach 2,000 kilometres (1,250 miles), but the announcer said it had a 1,300-kilometre (800-mile) range.

The parade was marked by a litany of slogans calling for "Death to America" and "Death to Israel." Western military attaches, apparently warned of this in advance, boycotted the rally for the second year running.

"The Western attaches did not come. It was because of the slogans about Israel and the United States," said one foreign representative who declined to be named.

"Israel should be eliminated" and "No Iranian Muslim, no Muslim recognises Israel," were among the slogans borne on the back of military vehicles, quoting the words of Iran's revolutionary founder Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini.

"Israel has to be wiped off the map," read another Khomeini quote which aroused worldwide controversy when it was repeated by President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad in 2005.

The parade came amid growing tensions over Iran's nuclear programme, which the United States alleges is cover for a nuclear weapons drive but which Tehran insists is aimed solely at producing electricity.

French Foreign Minister Bernard Kouchner has warned that the world should brace for war against Tehran if it keeps defying the UN Security Council by pressing on with sensitive nuclear work.

Iran's military, especially its air force, has been hit by the US trade embargo, and General Jaafari admitted that the Islamic republic would need to outsmart its enemies using means other than technology.

"Their material capabilities are better than us, everyone knows it and we admit it. We are responding to technology not with technology but with special methods and tactics," he told reporters.

Officials said that only weapons built by Iran were shown at the parade, in a bid to emphasise the country's self-sufficiency in military technology.

President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad meanwhile said in a speech that warnings of military action and further UN sanctions would have no effect on Tehran's nuclear drive.

"Those who think that with outmoded instruments like psychological warfare and economic sanctions they can stop Iran's march towards progress are making a grave mistake," Ahmadinejad said.

The full panoply of Iran's armed forces were on display, with thousands of goose-stepping members of the regular army and the Revolutionary Guards saluting Ahmadinejad and top military leaders in a march-past.

The United States and its ally Israel have never ruled out using military action against Iran for its defiance in the nuclear standoff.

Iran has said it will never initiate an attack, but has warned of striking US bases in the Arabian peninsula, Iraq and Afghanistan -- as well as Israel itself -- as a response to any aggression.

[UCFGavin]

again, i've never claimed that iran was a peaceful country, i said that israel wasn't innocent. i still don't see where the country of iran is a threat to us. sure they sponsor terrorism, but let me think where the majority of the terrorists came from that attacked us....oh wait, our ally saudi arabia. maybe we should deal with our actual problems instead of making them up.

[UCFGavin]

Well, in my eyes and alot of other, our borders are threatend by more nukes in possesion of unstabe governments, and governments that support terrorists. Do some research, you will see that Syria is no friend of ours or Israel. Who has been a great allie, who has supplied massive amounts of intel to find people who would do us harm. Simply turning a blind eye, and do nothing because it isn't on our border makes no sense. It has been proven time and time again, to be proactive then reactive. Why wait to have a terrorist attack on our soil to do something about it, then take the fight to them.


who said anything about turning a blind eye? i see no problem going after terrorists that attack our country, they should be put to death. if we get intel that says our borders are being threatened, then we take action.

and you talking about being proactive instead of reactive only works when you aren't provoking any attack. thats like poking a beehive with a stick and then when you get stung you blame the bees. sure you could have gotten stung without poking the beehive, but you would have been better off if you left it alone.

one of the biggest problems we've got in this country is people being fooled into supporting this policy of perpetual war. everyone in the world looks at us as the bad guys. not the citizens of the US, i haven't heard many bad things about us, but the government and their policies. we are used to being at war and its NOT a good thing.

we're running out of money, we can't support this policy for much longer. with a military that is spread thin throughout the world, we're in a lot of trouble if shit ever hits the fan.

[mendozathejew]

again, i've never claimed that iran was a peaceful country, i said that israel wasn't innocent.

you've shown yourself to have very little knowledge of the conflict. you hop on some sites, read some stuff you like. But its a complicated situation, and the vast majority of dummies who pipe up about it have little clue what they are talking about. the facts, the timelines to conflicts, the politics are very important. even missing some and you dont have a firm grasp of the topic.

its one issue where people generally assume they know what they are talking about. they think they know about conflicts with arabs, they know jews in the US so they think they know who israelis are and what they are about. and usually, people like you who are very light on stating facts, dont know what they are talking about, ESPECIALLY regarding the latter

[UCFGavin]

you've shown yourself to have very little knowledge of the conflict. you hop on some sites, read some stuff you like. But its a complicated situation, and the vast majority of dummies who pipe up about it have little clue what they are talking about. the facts, the timelines to conflicts, the politics are very important. even missing some and you dont have a firm grasp of the topic.

its one issue where people generally assume they know what they are talking about. they think they know about conflicts with arabs, they know jews in the US so they think they know who israelis are and what they are about. and usually, people like you who are very light on stating facts, dont know what they are talking about, ESPECIALLY regarding the latter

well then please educate me.

[mendozathejew]

well then please educate me.

I back up my statements with facts. you make blanket statements like I think israel wants war. and then your called on it, and you move on to your next idea. you seem to have developed a political philosophy and thats good. its not without merit. but in terms of arguing specific issues your not doing too well.

Im not going to argue my point, and yours as well.

[UCFGavin]

I back up my statements with facts. you make blanket statements like I think israel wants war. and then your called on it, and you move on to your next idea. you seem to have developed a political philosophy and thats good. its not without merit. but in terms of arguing specific issues your not doing too well.

Im not going to argue my point, and yours as well.

israel bombed a north korean site in syria and continues to buy large amounts of arms from the US. that isn't a stride towards peace. have they tried to give the palestinians land in the past? sure. that doesn't mean they are pleading for peace.

and again, my concern isn't israel, my concern is the US.

[mendozathejew]

israel bombed a north korean site in syria and continues to buy large amounts of arms from the US. that isn't a stride towards peace. have they tried to give the palestinians land in the past? sure. that doesn't mean they are pleading for peace.

and again, my concern isn't israel, my concern is the US.

well, thats one fact, in a huge political and historical context that you fail miserably to understand. Israel and Syria are technically still at war. Assad and Olmert have been talking about willingness to begin peace talks. Israel has tried to bargain the Golan for peace with Syria for many years. Even Netanyahu gave it a try.

and they have actually had 3rd tier talks for sometime, meaning the govements have had former officials engaging in these talks. its like a pre interview for official talks. But while that has happened, Syria has continued to supply Hezbollah to the point where they probably have more arms than they did before last summers war. Syrias' assiting of Hezbollah is pretty hard to deny. Even the UN peace keeping force on the border backs that up.

Meanwhile Syria is still assassinating lebanese officials in Lebanon, as they just did this week. They are moving in extremely aggressive manners and have been doing so for some time. Israel's supposed attack on a Syrian target is the result of collaboration with Turkey, US, and Israeli intel. afterwards Israel has said nothing about it. This has essentially prevented a flare up of a conflict. They did nothing to embarrass Syria, neither commented on it.

Infact tensions between Israel and Syria have been heavy for the whole summer as both sides built up forces on the border. But thats largely a cat and mouse game where Israel has moved up forces, and then was the FIRST to bring them back in this summers' stand off.

its a very specific process, especially on the Israelis' side. and thats precisely why there hasnt been another war in north with syria or hezbollah. If you were someone who kept up with middle eastern newspapers, you would have already known that these 3rd tier talks between Syria and Israel have been important in keeping this situation in check. While Israel did what it did last week, and Syria has made it possible for Hezbollah to rearm (and then some), a political dialogue has been active and is the reason a war didnt happen this summer.

This is what Im talking about. You simply do not have enough knowledge on this conflict to take such strong judgments.

[UCFGavin]

well, thats one fact, in a huge political and historical context that you fail miserably to understand. Israel and Syria are technically still at war. Assad and Olmert have been talking about willingness to begin peace talks. Israel has tried to bargain the Golan for peace with Syria for many years. Even Netanyahu gave it a try.

and they have actually had 3rd tier talks for sometime, meaning the govements have had former officials engaging in these talks. its like a pre interview for official talks. But while that has happened, Syria has continued to supply Hezbollah to the point where they probably have more arms than they did before last summers war. Syrias' assiting of Hezbollah is pretty hard to deny. Even the UN peace keeping force on the border backs that up.

Meanwhile Syria is still assassinating lebanese officials in Lebanon, as they just did this week. They are moving in extremely aggressive manners and have been doing so for some time. Israel's supposed attack on a Syrian target is the result of collaboration with Turkey, US, and Israeli intel. afterwards Israel has said nothing about it. This has essentially prevented a flare up of a conflict. They did nothing to embarrass Syria, neither commented on it.

Infact tensions between Israel and Syria have been heavy for the whole summer as both sides built up forces on the border. But thats largely a cat and mouse game where Israel has moved up forces, and then was the FIRST to bring them back in this summers' stand off.

its a very specific process, especially on the Israelis' side. and thats precisely why there hasnt been another war in north with syria or hezbollah. If you were someone who kept up with middle eastern newspapers, you would have already known that these 3rd tier talks between Syria and Israel have been important in keeping this situation in check. While Israel did what it did last week, and Syria has made it possible for Hezbollah to rearm (and then some), a political dialogue has been active and is the reason a war didnt happen this summer.

This is what Im talking about. You simply do not have enough knowledge on this conflict to take such strong judgments.

their war does not and should not involve us. our constant meddling is not necessary, it only hurts us and the situation. you've shown that you know a lot about the conflicts of israel, but they are not ours. the comment i made about israel going to war under a US banner was said because if violence breaks out, the US will once again be involved and caught in the middle.

israel has shown they have no problem acting with their military, and even if you say it caused diplomatic talks, it will not end the violence in the middle east. the tensions in the middle east will be there for a long time to come, and if israel feels as though a country like syria or iran genuinely threatens her with a nuke or other form of violence, then i support her military action. but i will not support US military involvement.

[sniper2323]

their war does not and should not involve us. our constant meddling is not necessary, it only hurts us and the situation. you've shown that you know a lot about the conflicts of israel, but they are not ours. the comment i made about israel going to war under a US banner was said because if violence breaks out, the US will once again be involved and caught in the middle.

israel has shown they have no problem acting with their military, and even if you say it caused diplomatic talks, it will not end the violence in the middle east. the tensions in the middle east will be there for a long time to come, and if israel feels as though a country like syria or iran genuinely threatens her with a nuke or other form of violence, then i support her military action. but i will not support US military involvement.

What has israel done for the U.S. in your mind and what you know as fact? What I am so tired of hearing is "It is not our war, keep our noses out of it". Learn from history, for the love of fuck.

Have you ever had a little brother, or a friend that was being picked on? Who let you know bad things were coming your way? Did you turn to your friend and say, hey "Better you then me? Sorry it is 4 to 1 odds" if you did, glad I did not have friends like you growing up where I went from a small farming town to a inner city Jr. High school. I would have been dead.


I am not jewish, but I look up to them because when the going gets tough, they do the job no matter what, to keep thier nation safe to the degree they can.

[mendozathejew]

their war does not and should not involve us. our constant meddling is not necessary, it only hurts us and the situation. you've shown that you know a lot about the conflicts of israel, but they are not ours. the comment i made about israel going to war under a US banner was said because if violence breaks out, the US will once again be involved and caught in the middle.

israel has shown they have no problem acting with their military, and even if you say it caused diplomatic talks, it will not end the violence in the middle east. the tensions in the middle east will be there for a long time to come, and if israel feels as though a country like syria or iran genuinely threatens her with a nuke or other form of violence, then i support her military action. but i will not support US military involvement.

Gavin, your developing nice political theories, and like I said thats is a good thing. Yours are not without merit. But again you repeatedly post comments lacking in historical facts. Which is a sin in debating middle eastern peace. perhaps you should comment more cautiously

[mendozathejew]

I am not jewish, but I look up to them because when the going gets tough, they do the job no matter what, to keep thier nation safe to the degree they can.

pure waves just sent me this article

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/middle_east/article2512380.ece

Israeli commandos seized nuclear material of North Korean origin during a daring raid on a secret military site in Syria before Israel bombed it this month, according to informed sources in Washington and Jerusalem.

The attack was launched with American approval on September 6 after Washington was shown evidence the material was nuclear related, the well-placed sources say.

They confirmed that samples taken from Syria for testing had been identified as North Korean. This raised fears that Syria might have joined North Korea and Iran in seeking to acquire nuclear weapons.

Israeli special forces had been gathering intelligence for several months in Syria, according to Israeli sources. They located the nuclear material at a compound near Dayr az-Zwar in the north.

Evidence that North Korean personnel were at the site is said to have been shared with President George W Bush over the summer. A senior American source said the administration sought proof of nuclear-related activities before giving the attack its blessing.

Diplomats in North Korea and China believe a number of North Koreans were killed in the strike, based on reports reaching Asian governments about conversations between Chinese and North Korean officials.

Syrian officials flew to Pyongyang, the North Korean capital, last week, reinforcing the view that the two nations were coordinating their response.


one of the comments posted from a reader is as follows

"As Jews we measure things by a simple standard: do we get to live another day? "

[sniper2323]

pure waves just sent me this article

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/middle_east/article2512380.ece

Israeli commandos seized nuclear material of North Korean origin during a daring raid on a secret military site in Syria before Israel bombed it this month, according to informed sources in Washington and Jerusalem.

The attack was launched with American approval on September 6 after Washington was shown evidence the material was nuclear related, the well-placed sources say.

They confirmed that samples taken from Syria for testing had been identified as North Korean. This raised fears that Syria might have joined North Korea and Iran in seeking to acquire nuclear weapons.

Israeli special forces had been gathering intelligence for several months in Syria, according to Israeli sources. They located the nuclear material at a compound near Dayr az-Zwar in the north.

Evidence that North Korean personnel were at the site is said to have been shared with President George W Bush over the summer. A senior American source said the administration sought proof of nuclear-related activities before giving the attack its blessing.

Diplomats in North Korea and China believe a number of North Koreans were killed in the strike, based on reports reaching Asian governments about conversations between Chinese and North Korean officials.

Syrian officials flew to Pyongyang, the North Korean capital, last week, reinforcing the view that the two nations were coordinating their response.


one of the comments posted from a reader is as follows

"As Jews we measure things by a simple standard: do we get to live another day? "

:clap:

Oh wait, I bet they planted the nuclear material so they could attack.:icon_roll

Just needed to be the first on this to make them look like the bad guys again, with no facts to back it up.

[UCFGavin]

What has israel done for the U.S. in your mind and what you know as fact? What I am so tired of hearing is "It is not our war, keep our noses out of it". Learn from history, for the love of fuck.

Have you ever had a little brother, or a friend that was being picked on? Who let you know bad things were coming your way? Did you turn to your friend and say, hey "Better you then me? Sorry it is 4 to 1 odds" if you did, glad I did not have friends like you growing up where I went from a small farming town to a inner city Jr. High school. I would have been dead.


I am not jewish, but I look up to them because when the going gets tough, they do the job no matter what, to keep thier nation safe to the degree they can.

this isn't a little brother being picked on, this is something that is ruining this country. we don't have the ability or the authority to be meddling in everyone's affairs. we would be sacrifcing american lives for a conflict that does not involve us.

bush wants to parade our soldiers around the world and because of it, we've racked up $3 trillion in debt during his presidency alone. this is not something we can continue.

edit: and just for the record, i agree with you about israel. they do not take shit and they've shown in military conflict that they can do what it takes. even giving back land that they've taken as a good gesture. their men and women have a strong will to live and are willing to fight off a half dozen countries to see that they still survive. my issue is our interference. they aren't a third world country, they can handle themselves.

[UCFGavin]

Gavin, your developing nice political theories, and like I said thats is a good thing. Yours are not without merit. But again you repeatedly post comments lacking in historical facts. Which is a sin in debating middle eastern peace. perhaps you should comment more cautiously

which comments do i post lacking historical fact when my point is that the US continuously sticks its nose where it doesn't belong? a good example of that is the Falkland War where the US had treaties with both the UK and Argentina yet supplied the UK with weapons which of course made us look bad in the eyes of latin america. It can also be pointed out when were allies with bin laden against the soviets and now after him, or an ally to saddam in his conflict with iran.

my only comments about middle eastern peace was that it won't happen (unless of course all the arab countries were wiped out). i also stated that while israel takes a lot of heat for their military actions (which are mostly in self defense), they also do some provoking and are not without blame. that if anything in the middle east were to escalate to war, involving israel, the US will be involved again and spending more borrowed money and sacrificing more american lives. i feel like you jumping all over that one comment is like the media overreacting about the nappy headed hos comment. i didn't mean that israel is starting a fight for the purpose of the US to go to war against the arab countries, but that with their constant fighting and bickering and us backing them, the US will most certainly be involved if things were to escalate.

[mendozathejew]

again, you post general statements about a very complicated region and conflict where boatloads of facts with a strict understanding of the timelines and political actions are key. and you refuse to see that you dont know any of this. only generalizations

I guess you think thats good enough.

[pure_waves]

this isn't a little brother being picked on, this is something that is ruining this country. we don't have the ability or the authority to be meddling in everyone's affairs. we would be sacrifcing american lives for a conflict that does not involve us.

bush wants to parade our soldiers around the world and because of it, we've racked up $3 trillion in debt during his presidency alone. this is not something we can continue.

edit: and just for the record, i agree with you about israel. they do not take shit and they've shown in military conflict that they can do what it takes. even giving back land that they've taken as a good gesture. their men and women have a strong will to live and are willing to fight off a half dozen countries to see that they still survive. my issue is our interference. they aren't a third world country, they can handle themselves.

meddling in the middle east isnt about israel. israel is a piece of the puzzle for the US to get to its goal; securing fuel to keep the country moving, and promoting peace (and sometimes war) so we can sell our stuff to client countries. im fine with that. we need gas, we need oil. we want to sell our stuff.

the USA needs influence and needs allies in the middle east to get what it wants. ending overseas affairs will not help the US, being isolationist wont either. it's not 1918, we cant hide behind walls and behind oceans and pretend theres nothing out there. its 2007, we are interwoven with every country in the world and if we want to keep on being a superpower, it involves being intermingled with the world.

if you really support not being involved in the middle east just say you want the US to be a second rate power, because thats what will happen in the end.