I'm so sick of 9/11 conspiracy theorists

[R.BuddDwyer]

They're the most trite line-toting douches ever, suddenly becoming qualified to explain advanced engineering and logistics because of a youtube video by a nerd teenager. The two main points I hear a lot (that I remember because of these bozos) and get so angered at, especially being an engineering student:

- Steel melting - You are a dope if you think steel would have to liquify or even near liquify to fail. Shut your mouth.

- WTC was designed to be hit by a 707 which is not much smaller than a 757 - Well that 'designed strike' was assuming a plane lost in fog over NYC during an approach to LGA/JFK, at approach speeds with a much smaller amount of fuel. The planes that hit had fuel to go from Boston to LA and hit the buildings at cruising speed.

I can't remember many more of their retarted points, but having heard them before, I know that every other point they bring up has a logical explaination that may sound complex to their "work at Mickey D's" mind, but is well within the realm of reality and possibility.

[d0uche_n0zzle]

Yep, the 9/11 was an Inside Job wackos are certainly nutty. Wish they'd get lives and actually do something productive, like jamming a shotgun into their mouths and pulling the toe trigger, maaan.

[Evilton]

Fucking assholes.

[Three Hole Puncher]

Are these guys still around? I thought their moms had called them all in for dinner. I haven't heard much from them lately.

Last I heard, the "loose change" mucous plugs pretty much had a fork stuck in them... one was in the process of having his pee pee smacked for deserting the military, and, in desperation after their Hollywood dreams crashed and burned, the other two were talking about renting a movie theatre with their own money in order to get their "documentary" shown on the big screen.

I also heard that the last annual "truther" protest at the WTC ground zero site drew a smaller crowd than The Naked Cowboy.

Fourteen minutes, fifty nine seconds, and counting...

[Ciarin]

penn and teller on bullshit (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kcrF346sS_I)

[blotto98]

stupid kids- they're the hippies of this generation.

I blame Huey Walker

[kloraferm]

It's almost insulting every time I hear one of these conspiracy douchebags. Maybe I'm partially biased having watched it happen live (I don't mean on TV) and knowing people who died in it. But all I've heard so far are some of the weakest conspiracy theories I've heard since the one that we never actually went to the moon.

[Three Hole Puncher]

It's almost insulting every time I hear one of these conspiracy douchebags.

There's nothing almost about it. They're basically pissing on the graves of every 9/11 victim when they spout their ignorance.

[nataskaos]

here's the hard part:
I believe that we knew something about the attack before it happened, and because of our bumbling, we didn't handle it well.

IE, we knew that the pilots were training here and did nothing to stop them, even after hearing about intentions.

any little thing is going to cause people to doubt the reasonable explanation. Building 7 was odd. Attacking Iraq was a weird link for some people. Not a lot of witnesses seeing the plane hit the pentagon. etc...people don't like it when you can't just put something in a nice little packeeeetch.

BTW, I believe that the pentagon was hit by a plane, and that the WTC was hit by airplanes. I just think we sucked at distributing our intel. Hell, I was in the Army as an intel soldier, I know that to be true.

Anyway, whackos ruin it for everyone.

[R.BuddDwyer]

God, listen to this asshole on now. More Kindergarden engineering. Rests on the elevator shaft? SHUT THE FUCK UP

[Budyzir]

When I worked in the downtown area, near Ground Zero, I used to walk by these asses and their protests. Just have you all heard today, you cant argue with them, they latch onto one or two incongruities and ignore the vast majority of the evidence.

These fuckers used to enrage me beyond words, I always felt their idiotic protests at the site were an insult to all those who died there.

[UsedLadBag]

After listening to O&A talk about this for almost two hours, I don't care whether it was the terrorists or the government. I don't want freedom anymore, especially when it applies to these idiots.

[gleet]

Here is all I know. A good friend was in his corner office in northern VA, and heard a rumble. He turned around and watched a passenger jet fly at his level towards the Pentagon. And then he heard it hit the Pentagon a few seconds later.

Maybe it was a missile artfully painted to appear to be a 767.

[SwimConnerSwim]

Dam it, I missed this part of the show. What time was it on?

[kloraferm]

There's nothing almost about it. They're basically pissing on the graves of every 9/11 victim when they spout their ignorance.
You're right. I shouldn't have even used the word "almost". It gives these fools too much "credibility" :icon_evil

[NY Sportscene]

This 'conspiracy' theory talk sickens me. I am a retired NYPD sergeant that was down at Ground Zero during the cleanup process and saw things that were unbelievable. This guy stating that there were no parts of the airplane recovered in DC is really confusing me. I can't speak for the Pentagon, but downtown there were makeshift carriers (actually dumpsters) marked with day-glo orange paint. One stated 'Airplane Parts.'

There were other temporary tents up, one that said 'Morgue,' so it was not a pretty scene down there. Standing right there by 'the pit' and seeing a building that I used to work in (1 WTC, 104th floor) before getting on the job, plus knowing people that died in the collapse, anyone who spews this liberal rhetoric are a bunch of people that have too much time on their hands. Use those hours of the day doing something constructive like finding new internet porn.

[SurlyTruckDrivr]

I hate these idiots, but love hearing O&A&Jimmy smashing them on the show. Always good radio.

[SKEPTIC]

South Park had a good episode on this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mystery_of_the_Urinal_Deuce

[bokeatong]

I think the point that stuck out most to me that has never crossed my mind, is, when Opie brought up the phone calls from the planes.

There is no way to fake a family.

I think that point alone puts the whole "conspiracy" to rest.

[kimothee]

here's the hard part:
I believe that we knew something about the attack before it happened, and because of our bumbling, we didn't handle it well.

IE, we knew that the pilots were training here and did nothing to stop them, even after hearing about intentions.

any little thing is going to cause people to doubt the reasonable explanation. Building 7 was odd. Attacking Iraq was a weird link for some people. Not a lot of witnesses seeing the plane hit the pentagon. etc...people don't like it when you can't just put something in a nice little packeeeetch.

BTW, I believe that the pentagon was hit by a plane, and that the WTC was hit by airplanes. I just think we sucked at distributing our intel. Hell, I was in the Army as an intel soldier, I know that to be true.

Anyway, whackos ruin it for everyone.

x2...except about being Army intel (nope, wasn't one).

Everything else you said was pretty much spot on. I never did and still do not see the Iraq connection - Afghanistan and Pakistan, hell yeah, but Iraq has been such a clusterfuck from the beginning.

If the Administration had actually had a *real* plan and capitalized on the world basically having our back immediately after 9/11, and King George wasn't just out to avenge his daddy's mistakes in Gulf War I, then I think our country would actually be in a much better place now.

[Three Hole Puncher]

I think the point that stuck out most to me that has never crossed my mind, is, when Opie brought up the phone calls from the planes.

There is no way to fake a family.

I think that point alone puts the whole "conspiracy" to rest. The "loose change" dimwits have since abandoned the "Voice-morphed phone call" theory. Although this was one of the arguments that Korey Rowe passionately made when he called in to O&A, the claims of voice-morphed phone calls were cut from the latest version of the Loose Change "documentary". Along with many, many, many other things. The final version has been so chopped to ribbons that it barely resembles the original.

Retreat and revise has been the loose change battle plan over the last year... all the while screaming that they know THE TRUTH! Funny how THE TRUTH keeps "morphing".

[Save My Up's Dick]

I haven't followed all the 9/11 bullshit these asses have spewed but what's the out come supposed to be? What is, or was the Governments big plan? Do they explain WHY the Govt would do this?

[bokeatong]

Those tards chose the name Loose Change??? Thats a lottery ticket in New York.

[3 Arab Jackers]

I honestly think that most people believe in these theories because they want to appear cultured and mysterious. They want people to think they are "in the know" and not just following the herd. Unfortunately for them, simple common sense negates their douchey theories.

[NovaPest]

"Why?" is one question I've never really heard a good answer for. To get us into Iraq? THIS was the master plan? Even as a supporter of the war, I'd have to say it hasn't exactly worked out for us, and I'm putting that mildly.

[nataskaos]

"Why?" is one question I've never really heard a good answer for. To get us into Iraq? THIS was the master plan? Even as a supporter of the war, I'd have to say it hasn't exactly worked out for us, and I'm putting that mildly.

Just to play devil's advocate here, because it's ONE thing in a sea of garbage that makes some sense to me -

Have you ever heard the theory (though disspelled during the nurembourg trials) that Hitler burned down the Reichstag, and then blamed it on the comumunists? That was essentially the final straw to Hitler locking down Germany, and totally selling the people on the idea of war and starting with his "master plan".
Couple that with the passing of the patriot act (which I am %1000000 against, but that's another discussion), then people start drawing strange lines to things. Especially when the leader already wasn't popular.

not saying I agree, just saying that I sort of see where it starts.

[Jimmy's Junk]

I honestly think that most people believe in these theories because they want to appear cultured and mysterious. They want people to think they are "in the know" and not just following the herd. Unfortunately for them, simple common sense negates their douchey theories.


You are so right. This was the point, I believe, Jimmy was making when He kept saying, "So this is how you go against Mommy and Daddy." These douches just want to be too cool for the room mannnnn. I hope they all get the HIV from a broken needle being repeatly plunged into their taints by Robert Reids doctor.

[Save My Up's Dick]

Just to play devil's advocate here, because it's ONE thing in a sea of garbage that makes some sense to me -

Have you ever heard the theory (though disspelled during the nurembourg trials) that Hitler burned down the Reichstag, and then blamed it on the comumunists? That was essentially the final straw to Hitler locking down Germany, and totally selling the people on the idea of war and starting with his "master plan".
Couple that with the passing of the patriot act (which I am %1000000 against, but that's another discussion), then people start drawing strange lines to things. Especially when the leader already wasn't popular.

not saying I agree, just saying that I sort of see where it starts.
Ok that's great but that doesn't explain what the US Govt plan is or was for 9/11.

When these douches try to explain WHY the Govt would do this, then I'll listen to what they have to say.......probably wont listen to them but it sounded good.

[TheDrip]

Like they were talking about a few weeks back when Marc Maron was on:

People need conspiracy theories because they can't come to grips with the fact that sometimes awful events just randomly happen. Like JFK, for some people it's easier to wrap their heads around a massive government conspiracy with communists, the mob and LBJ, than it is to just think that a wackjob with a good trigger finger killed the leader of the free world.

It's the same with 9/11, if anything the only conspiracy here is probably just the government omitting a few things from the reports that would show it's not necessarily 'on it's toes' when it comes to national security.

[nataskaos]

Ok that's great but that doesn't explain what the US Govt plan is or was for 9/11.

When these douches try to explain WHY the Govt would do this, then I'll listen to what they have to say.......probably wont listen to them but it sounded good.

just from what I have read:
the government blows up buildings, blames the terrorists, ties it to the iraq war, and then ties it to patriot act.
unless people are scared, you can't pass the patriot act, etc.

just saying.

[Flush.Buy.Fuck]

Every single aspect of life can be looked at and questioned in the same way that these people look at 9/11. The difference is 9/11 is the most significant event in our lives, so these people want to be connected with it. But if you genuinely have the feelings they are having it would not be limited to 9/11. Every aspect of your life would have to be treated the same way. You could never be certain of anything. For example, if 100 million people say they are eye witness to an event and someone says "no I dont believe it, it is a conspiracy." And 50 years later it is proven that the event was a conspriracy without doubt. Yeah, that person would be right, but the thing is if you did not believe originally what can you believe? There is no way that same person could believe the explanation and proof that it was after all a conspiracy.

[oandapartycock]

here's the hard part:
I believe that we knew something about the attack before it happened, and because of our bumbling, we didn't handle it well.

IE, we knew that the pilots were training here and did nothing to stop them, even after hearing about intentions.

any little thing is going to cause people to doubt the reasonable explanation. Building 7 was odd. Attacking Iraq was a weird link for some people. Not a lot of witnesses seeing the plane hit the pentagon. etc...people don't like it when you can't just put something in a nice little packeeeetch.

BTW, I believe that the pentagon was hit by a plane, and that the WTC was hit by airplanes. I just think we sucked at distributing our intel. Hell, I was in the Army as an intel soldier, I know that to be true.

Anyway, whackos ruin it for everyone.

Sounds like you may have read Richard Clarke's book "Against all Enemies." He was the head of the counter terrorism department and had over 25 years of experience serving under 4 presidents, democrats and republicans.

Bush, Cheney and Rumsfeld did have warnings but were more concerned about Iraq even pre-911.

Not only that, but remember James Woods (and his huge hog) had supposedly flown with the terrorists a couple weeks before it happened and he got in touch with the FBI because he noticed they were taking notes on procedures and stuff. They didn't listen either.

The books a great read, he also smashes Clinton, Bush Sr., and Reagan for their shortcomings as well.

[ImSalty]

penn and teller on bullshit (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kcrF346sS_I)

thanks for this!

the fact that people even engage in discourse with these idiots is a travesty

[mendozathejew]

here's the hard part:
I believe that we knew something about the attack before it happened, and because of our bumbling, we didn't handle it well.

BTW, I believe that the pentagon was hit by a plane, and that the WTC was hit by airplanes. I just think we sucked at distributing our intel.


Louis Freeh was clintons fbi director. he was off the job 8 days on 9/11. and he said even if they knew the plot, they couldnt have stopped it without shutting down all the airports in the country. The FBI at that point was truly a mess and everyone in politics knew it BEFORE the attacks

[mendozathejew]

The "loose change" dimwits have since abandoned the "Voice-morphed phone call" theory. Although this was one of the arguments that Korey Rowe passionately made when he called in to O&A, the claims of voice-morphed phone calls were cut from the latest version of the Loose Change "documentary". Along with many, many, many other things. The final version has been so chopped to ribbons that it barely resembles the original.

Retreat and revise has been the loose change battle plan over the last year... all the while screaming that they know THE TRUTH! Funny how THE TRUTH keeps "morphing".

:clap:thats the only point needed to knock their theories down

[Thelateshowkid]

The main reason I hate the 9/11 conspiracy theories is that most of the people who believe in them are people who have an agenda of hating this regime, or just authority as a whole. They always have, and always will. If there were educated guys sprouting out here and there, saying that it is possible it was an inside job, it would be a different story, but the reality is, if you can think rationally in the slightest possible way, you know that the theories are fucking retarded, and just driven by this agenda.

[Creeping Douche]

Love it or leave it faggots.
9/11 was done by a bunch of pissed off savages in the name of their queer prophet.

I'm still waiting for the ultimate revenge....it's called a nuke.

[Gonzoid]

I was proud of little Jimmy and Anthony today shutting those fucks up. The arrogance they have in saying "we have done the research..."

Really douchebag? You went to the plane crash site in PA, you visited the Pentagon after the attack...you were at Ground Zero 1 day after it fell? What fucking research did you do asshole that did not come from video that we all saw?!

I loved how Jim made that cunt look like an idiot regarding the voice modification crap...that idiocy is almost criminal to think that the gov't would have the time, knowledge and desire to do background checks ona select number of passengers that day and fake intimate phone calls back home to their loved ones. My wife can detect the slight change in my mood on teh phone...I can not imagine a voice recording getting very far with her.

I think there has been so many movies/TV shows that have the "Big, secretive, all-powerful gov't agencies out to get the common person" theme that people truly want to believe it. While I think our gov't is shit, I cannot pin this matermind plot on them. Also, if the gov't was a comic-book bad as they want you to believe, anyone associated with these "Loose CHange" conspiracy shits would have been whacked Day 1 for exposing the "truth."

[Budyzir]

The replay with that ass on the walk over just started.

I HATE those assholes, God they need a bloody beat down.

[Fuck Crosby]

I just turned off my car when I heard the ass tell Opie he didn't give a shit. Looks like I'm going to download it. I'm so tired of listening to these assbags go on about how it was an inside job.

[Budyzir]

I have no doubt that latter, after the walk over, these assholes ran back home and, while sitting in one of their parent's basements, complimented each other about how coll and dominating they were, high fiving each other with with Dorrito's dust covered fingers.

AARRGGHHHH!

It's just not worth the aggravation to debate with them.

[irelanddude]

Heres a political story about Rudy Giuliani, but it talks about his failures as Mayor. His major failure was having his emergency command centre is building #7.
http://rawstory.com/rawreplay/?p=70

[Treat_Yourself]

God, listen to this asshole on now. More Kindergarden engineering. Rests on the elevator shaft? SHUT THE FUCK UP

That's the same guy who claimed no airplane parts were found inside the pentagon, and claiming that the fuselage penetrated while the engines were destroyed, right? Fuck, engine parts were found to have penetrated farthest into the Pentagon. That retard is completely uninformed and has the balls to try to act like an expert.

[Budyzir]

"Angry young man face." Jimmy is priceless!

[wowgrl]

My God, if they put this same anger and effort into REAL problems like homelessness, poverty, violence, AIDS/STD prevention, etc, maybe the world would be a better place.

But then, I guess it's easier to get behind something when you don't have to do the work.

Ass hats!

[Its A Hemi]

Why did people jump? It was hot?

No, there was smoke mixed with a variety of toxic gas released by burning office equipment. 9/11 hacks are fucking dumb.

[Budyzir]

My God, if they put this same anger and effort into REAL problems like homelessness, poverty, violence, AIDS/STD prevention, etc, maybe the world would be a better place.

But then, I guess it's easier to get behind something when you don't have to do the work.

Ass hats!

I never looked at it that way, great thought.

[R.BuddDwyer]

This conspirist cunt has a slur to her voice that makes her sound like Pat

BIIIILL??

THHISSS IS THAA WRRRONG BIIILLL.

[pablofransucko]

I'm so proud of Jimmy. His argument skills are top notch. Amazing how delusional these kids are. Why couldnt they have been on the planes instead of the innocent victims who lost their lives.

[coolyellowbus]

its too funny listening to these guys. All they can do is talk about is their agenda and give out their wikipidia and youtube sights. The second someone comes at them with a question that logically defies what they want to believe they fold like a tent and cannot get into a debate with them.

[SurlyTruckDrivr]

I have no doubt that latter, after the walk over, these assholes ran back home and, while sitting in one of their parent's basements, complimented each other about how coll and dominating they were, high fiving each other with with Dorrito's dust covered fingers.

AARRGGHHHH!

It's just not worth the aggravation to debate with them.
yup, somewhere tonight they'll type some faggoty blog about how they matched Op Ant and Jim point for point and look like champs and everyone else is uninformed maaaaaaaaaaan. Fucking douches, die.

[Budyzir]

I posted this in the listening thread, figured it would fit in here too.

OK, one of the asshole just mentioned "a plane circling the white house" and a YouTube video.

Here it is;
ABC - Plane Circling Over White House at 9:41am on 9/11

http://youtube.com/watch?v=_z9r_itnme4

No video, just Peter Jennings talking about a report. Less than 10 seconds and this is being thrown out as "evidence", something that furthers their "theory". UGH!

I remember that day hearing lots of reports on 1010 WINS, like reports of explosions at the State Department. What that attack was covered up?


AND .... the explanation;

http://youtube.com/watch?v=UgF9Fd4UyMY&feature=related

[Zona992006]

if they didnt have footage of the tower being hit, they would have said it was missles...

[Stormrider666]

I didn't know about the 911 conspiracy theroies, till a few months ago when I saw a special on the History Channel. Normally conspiracy theroies don't bother me. The shit these douchebags(see Jay Mohr a black man can say douchebag) were spouting ,really pissed me off. I was seething with anger, especially the theroy about the phone calls being faked from the plane that went down in PA. I'm by no means a member of the President Bush fan club. but don't let your hatred for this administration, blind you to cold hard facts and the laws of science.

[Turfmower]

I think the white plane was one of the Looking Glass planes. They used to run the government in event of a nuclear war and all ground control bases where destroyed. They used to be in the air 24 hour day 365 days a year till the cold war ended in the early 90s

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_E-4

[Budyzir]

I think the white plane was one of the Looking Glass planes. They used to run the government in event of a nuclear war and all ground control bases where destroyed. They used to be in the air 24 hour day 365 days a year till the cold war ended in the early 90s

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_E-4

I haven't heard that term in ages. Based on the CNN report on YouTube, that's exactly what it was.

[hehateme]

Jimmy absolutely destroyed the conspiracy faggots with logic and reasoning, and managed to get under the angry bearded guy's skin. Best walkover in a long time.

Bravo Jimmy...bravo

:clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap:

[hehateme]

Jesus...everyone has a fricken conspiracy website...listening to the replay...

[SteveFromBayshore]

I have a theory that all conspiracy theorists are part of a conspiracy to be assholes. Someone look into that for me.

HEIL CUMIA!

[THE FEZ MAN]

the ignorance of these people boggles my mind

[Ballbuster1]

the ignorance of these people boggles my mind
Yeah. It really is just amazing what some asshats will believe.

[Its A Hemi]

I haven't heard that term in ages. Based on the CNN report on YouTube, that's exactly what it was.

Yeah, the government actually does run many planes that are undesignated for various reasons, and the most plausible explanation of the unidentified white plane is almost certainly Looking Glass either being put through its paces in training or tests, or was scrambled because of events in New York.

I live near Stewart ANG, the main maintenance station for the C-5 Galaxy fleet. They are large, very costly to run, and the fuckers fly them damn near every day. I'm positive Looking Glass is no different, and it's probably based in the D.C. area (I'm not sure for a fact). It stands to reason that if that IS Looking Glass, it isn't even a coincidence it was in the area, just a lucky camera shot of an unrelated, "unidentified" plane.

Either that or it's a fucking airliner that is soon after grounded by the FAA. But what do I know.

[Turfmower]

I wish some one would make video of these asses telling their conspiracies and video of guys on desks standing drilling hole for explosives and have the chunks of concrete falling on the office workers heads. To show how fucking stupid they are.

[Yanqui UXO]

And I'm sick of ignorant, reactionst twits that write off truthers as being psychos and loons. When Kennedy was shot, a lot of people instantly thought it was a conspiracy, and those whom believed that were instantly written off as pyshcos. Today, the general majority when polled about JFK believe a conspiracy was involved.

You really believe Osama, a man made rich by our government when paid billions to kill the soviets with his Mujhadeen, would have any reason to attack the people that made him rich?

Governments have been using false flag terror at massively affect the consciousness of its people. Even Hitler did it with the Reichstag.


Just do your fucking homework. I give those guys, even though they came off as incredibly uneloquent, some major credit. They are doing the work the rest of you ignorant sheep should be doing, and that's trying to spread the TRUTH.

Like I said. Do your homework.

[Budyzir]

I wish some one would make video of these asses telling their conspiracies and video of guys on desks standing drilling hole for explosives and have the chunks of concrete falling on the office workers heads. To show how fucking stupid they are.

I don't remember if it was the History, Discovery, or Science channel but, one of them did a show with the editors of Popular Mechanics who wrote the 9-11 article debunking every one of the "Truthers" arguments point by point. It really is a must see.

Here is the link to the article; http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/military_law/1227842.html

Click on the "PRINT" icon, to the right of the first picture to get the whole story on one page.

[Budyzir]

And I'm sick of ignorant, reactionst twits that write off truthers as being psychos and loons. When Kennedy was shot, a lot of people instantly thought it was a conspiracy, and those whom believed that were instantly written off as pyshcos. Today, the general majority when polled about JFK believe a conspiracy was involved.

You really believe Osama, a man made rich by our government when paid billions to kill the soviets with his Mujhadeen, would have any reason to attack the people that made him rich?

Governments have been using false flag terror at massively affect the consciousness of its people. Even Hitler did it with the Reichstag.


Just do your fucking homework. I give those guys, even though they came off as incredibly uneloquent, some major credit. They are doing the work the rest of you ignorant sheep should be doing, and that's trying to spread the TRUTH.

Like I said. Do your homework.

[dripping with sarcasm]Great first post.[/dripping with sarcasm]


So how is the view from your parent's basement?

[hehateme]

And I'm sick of ignorant, reactionst twits that write off truthers as being psychos and loons. When Kennedy was shot, a lot of people instantly thought it was a conspiracy, and those whom believed that were instantly written off as pyshcos. Today, the general majority when polled about JFK believe a conspiracy was involved.

You really believe Osama, a man made rich by our government when paid billions to kill the soviets with his Mujhadeen, would have any reason to attack the people that made him rich?

Governments have been using false flag terror at massively affect the consciousness of its people. Even Hitler did it with the Reichstag.


Just do your fucking homework. I give those guys, even though they came off as incredibly uneloquent, some major credit. They are doing the work the rest of you ignorant sheep should be doing, and that's trying to spread the TRUTH.

Like I said. Do your homework.

Ladies and Gentlemen...ANGRY BEARDED DOUCHEBAG!!! A wackbag welcome to you.

I want to see you throw your conspiracy theories to the survivors of the towers, to the emergency workers that rushed to the buildings, and helped the survivors...to the emergency personal that had to clean up the remains, and I especially want to see a self rigeous pompous douchebag like you explain to the children, parents, and spouses of the love ones that will never be seen again, how misled they've been.

I'll be less eloquent then Jimmy and Anthony, go fuck yourself.

[TheDrip]

http://www.loosechangeguide.com


Website that pretty much destroys any ounce of merit one might try and put in the actual Loose Change movie. Great site.

[Jerry1]

I posted this in the listening thread, figured it would fit in here too.

It's probably the "KneeCap" aircraft otherwise known as the National Emergency Airborne Command Post. In the case of a nuclear attack or major natural disaster one is kept on standby and is in the air in case of emergency. The point is to have a command & control facility that is mobile so it would be hard to attack or interfere with. It's a dead ringer to Air Force One.
http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/RANCHO/CRASH/TWA/NEACP.gif

For something like the events of Sept 11, it is only natural that this plane would be seen coming from Andrews so as to immediately establish a mobile command post and to keep it from being hit on the ground. Nobody knew what else was coming so everything went on alert.
If the president was in DC at the time he would have been on that aircraft but he was in Florida and used Air Force One instead.
During the Cold War, this aircraft was kept near the president at all times(like the infamous "football") So if a Soviet nuclear attack was under way, the aircraft could be brought in to take the president away while he is kept apprised of the situation and in contact with SAC, NORAD, Looking Glass or anyone else he needed to be. When the Cold War ended it's pretty much kept on alert at Andrews AFB.
If the conspiracy theorists were right then the government would have used the E-3 Sentry AWACS aircraft which could have guided the aircraft over DC. The E-3 could have been easily explained away as it was being used to coordinate fighter coverage over DC.
http://www.globalaircraft.org/photos/planephotos/e-3_1.jpg
(Aircraft are bit of a hobby and interest of mine)

It would make more sense and easier for the theorists to say that the US government allowed Sept 11 to happen so we'd go into Iraq and Afghanistan.

My question to the theorists is "What about Flight 93 that crashed? What happened there?" And if their theories of doing all this was to make us go into Afghanistan, Iraq and for cheaper oil....boy did it backfire!
If the US wanted to go to war with Iraq & Afghanistan, it could have found a better, cheaper and less complicated way to do it. Why kill 3,000 Americans, endanger the hub of the US military and risk screwing up the US economy that was already starting to come down from the boom of the 90's?

[Patrick B.]

I bet that conspiracy theorist has TWO AWWHHSOME KIDS! ... linger longer

[Its A Hemi]

And I'm sick of ignorant, reactionst twits that write off truthers as being psychos and loons. When Kennedy was shot, a lot of people instantly thought it was a conspiracy, and those whom believed that were instantly written off as pyshcos. Today, the general majority when polled about JFK believe a conspiracy was involved.

An assassination of one man, and the destruction of three buildings, and a plane in Pennsylvania, are two different things.

You really believe Osama, a man made rich by our government when paid billions to kill the soviets with his Mujhadeen, would have any reason to attack the people that made him rich?

Bin Laden made billions (actually he didn't, he's not worth nearly that much) by being sperm out of his daddys balls. His family owns the biggest infrastructure company in Saudi Arabia, one that is frequently awarded contracts in the oil fields. Picture him being an heir to U.S. Steel.

As far as the aid to the mujahadeen, we sent Pakistan aid on the good faith they would then distribute it among the different factions within Afghanistan, as the fighters there wouldn't talk to us. The CIA didn't even go into Afghanistan, look it up. Our support of the mujahadeen was material at best, we gave them guns because they were killing Commies, that's all.



Governments have been using false flag terror at massively affect the consciousness of its people. Even Hitler did it with the Reichstag.

They didn't do it on live television though, and not as ineffective as this apparent "conspiracy" was. I mean, plane in PA, planes in NY, but missle in D.C. Also, even though planes hit in NYC, they also blew up the buildings. Then they blew up 7...because? Why not hit it with a plane/missile. Then they executed people, and made Bin Laden claim responsibility.

Just do your fucking homework. I give those guys, even though they came off as incredibly uneloquent, some major credit. They are doing the work the rest of you ignorant sheep should be doing, and that's trying to spread the TRUTH.

I've done the fucking work, unless you have extra chromosomes, the real truth is right in your fucking face, and it's even more terrifying than whatever fucked up scheme you imagine, because it's simple, and there is absolutely nothing we can do to stop it. And that's what hurts people like you. You're powerless, and insignificant, and you want to make a difference. You want to create a comic book fantasy land where everyone is a supervillan, no matter how many times they completely screw the pooch and prove themselves to be totally incapable of a plot this size.

Like I said. Do your homework.

What you said is fucking stupid. You fail at life.

[Brady T cell]

And I'm sick of ignorant, reactionst twits that write off truthers as being psychos and loons. When Kennedy was shot, a lot of people instantly thought it was a conspiracy, and those whom believed that were instantly written off as pyshcos. Today, the general majority when polled about JFK believe a conspiracy was involved.

You really believe Osama, a man made rich by our government when paid billions to kill the soviets with his Mujhadeen, would have any reason to attack the people that made him rich?

Governments have been using false flag terror at massively affect the consciousness of its people. Even Hitler did it with the Reichstag.


Just do your fucking homework. I give those guys, even though they came off as incredibly uneloquent, some major credit. They are doing the work the rest of you ignorant sheep should be doing, and that's trying to spread the TRUTH.

Like I said. Do your homework.

Way to back up ANY point that the 9-11 cunts spout off.....maaaaaaaan.

[Three Hole Puncher]

And I'm sick of ignorant, reactionst twits that write off truthers as being psychos and loons. When Kennedy was shot, a lot of people instantly thought it was a conspiracy, and those whom believed that were instantly written off as pyshcos. Today, the general majority when polled about JFK believe a conspiracy was involved.

You really believe Osama, a man made rich by our government when paid billions to kill the soviets with his Mujhadeen, would have any reason to attack the people that made him rich?

Governments have been using false flag terror at massively affect the consciousness of its people. Even Hitler did it with the Reichstag.


Just do your fucking homework. I give those guys, even though they came off as incredibly uneloquent, some major credit. They are doing the work the rest of you ignorant sheep should be doing, and that's trying to spread the TRUTH.

Like I said. Do your homework. I've done my homework. Lot's of it. Matter of fact... the more homework I do, the more I'm convinced that the 9/11 scenarios, as proposed by the "Truthers", range from highly implausible to utterly impossible. The facts just don't support any of it.

I can be specific on each point... but you can't. "Truthers" haaaaate specificity... it shows them for the logically bankrupt fools they are. "Truthers", like yourself, prefer to stick to abstracts and go off on tangents... Hitler and the Reichstag fire, JFK conspiracy, etc... because it allows you to flap your gums for hours while clarifying and accomplishing exactly nothing.

Would you care to discuss the melting temperature of steel? The plausibility of "voice-morphing" bogus phone calls? The implausibility of wiring a crowded building for demolition without anyone noticing? No? Of course you wouldn't... because then I'd make you look plain silly.

Instead you'll just barge in... call us ignorant, declare yourself to be the all-knowing protector of truth and wisdom, and then you'll run your angry boy ass out the door just as quick as you came.

I've been watching your type follow this exact script for the last 4+ years. Been there, done that, and believe me... I know you. You will NOT disappoint me.

[Maldoff]

And I'm sick of ignorant, reactionst twits that write off truthers as being psychos and loons. When Kennedy was shot, a lot of people instantly thought it was a conspiracy, and those whom believed that were instantly written off as pyshcos. Today, the general majority when polled about JFK believe a conspiracy was involved.

You really believe Osama, a man made rich by our government when paid billions to kill the soviets with his Mujhadeen, would have any reason to attack the people that made him rich?

Governments have been using false flag terror at massively affect the consciousness of its people. Even Hitler did it with the Reichstag.


Just do your fucking homework. I give those guys, even though they came off as incredibly uneloquent, some major credit. They are doing the work the rest of you ignorant sheep should be doing, and that's trying to spread the TRUTH.

Like I said. Do your homework.

We have, or I have anyway. EVERY point these cunts come up with has been debunked. EVERY__SINGLE__POINT.

There were no power downs in the towers. The single guy claiming that was a liar. Plane parts and bodies of passengers were identified to a man at the Pentagon. Pictures of the charred corpses exist. The towers failed at the point of impact.

Furthermore, the cock gobbler that said "Steel is a good conductor of heat, you would have to heat it all up" WRONG! Try again dumbass! Here's a question mooseknuckle. What fails first, a steel building or a wood framed building. Seek a firefighter out and get their opinion.

Many of the calls on the planes came from Airphones. Yes they were on those planes, any document showing they weren't is misleading. Such an order went out prior to 9/11 but the actual Engineering GO-AHEAD was scheduled for March 2002. Furthermore, cell phones DO work on airplanes under 10k feet. The planes flew at 10k feet or lower in the last 20 to 30 minutes.

The bit about the 707 vs 757 is herring. The speed of the impact imparted thousands of times more energy than a lost in the fog 707. Not to mention fuel.

How come you didn't hear any explosions? Every imploded build makes a whole bunch of noise. Did any camera catch it? Any witness? Steven Jones is a crank. He found nothing on the steel. He's a joke with an Agenda. HE IS LYING.

I could go on, these fuckwits really annoy me.

READ some real research asshole.

http://wtc7lies.googlepages.com/home
http://wtc7lies.googlepages.com/introduction
http://911stories.googlepages.com/home

[blotto98]

To people like those douches in the street and Yanqui UXO, why is that if we don't agree with your theories we haven't done 'our homework'? I did my homework and I attended funerals for friends I lost in both NY & Washington. So don't sit back and regurgitate drivel you heard for fools like Michael Moore and claim you know more then everyone else or that you’re smarter than ‘us sheep’. What homework did you do Einstein? Did you talk to FDNY commanders at funerals? Did you talk to people who work(ed) at the Pentagon? No, why not? I did. I heard them talk about what they saw. I heard them tell about seeing the planes, about feeling the heat being generated by the fires, about watching the towers collapse.
How dare you insult others like you’re some superior or more intelligent person?
You disrespect the memories of the nearly 3000 people who died.
Some of which were my friends.
I’m glad you have a purpose in life but you need to redirect your energy and passion to something you're better prepared to deal with. Like solving a Rubik’s Cube or figuring out what’s going to happen on the next episode of Heroes.
http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g134/blotto98/965529365_l.jpg

[TheDrip]

And I'm sick of ignorant, reactionst twits that write off truthers as being psychos and loons.

Maybe they should try living in the real world where things like physics and the like actually exist, and can't be changed to suit the situation.

Today, the general majority when polled about JFK believe a conspiracy was involved.

Link please. Or else we'll have no choice but to write this off much like we write off the argument that no plane parts were found at any of the sites.

You really believe Osama, a man made rich by our government when paid billions to kill the soviets with his Mujhadeen, would have any reason to attack the people that made him rich?

Um, if we suddenly decided you cut off his funded (which we did years ago), and then actively pursue him for terrorist attacks committed by his group (which we were doing for quite some time), yes, yes I do. Ever heard of Saddam Hussein? We did the same for Saddam, look how that turned out in terms of our relationship. On second thought, don't...it goes against your 'theory'.

Governments have been using false flag terror at massively affect the consciousness of its people. Even Hitler did it with the Reichstag.

Was there a point to this? I'm guessing no...just some type of "here's a bunch of dots, connect them with my purposefully leading comments.


Just do your fucking homework. I give those guys, even though they came off as incredibly uneloquent, some major credit. They are doing the work the rest of you ignorant sheep should be doing, and that's trying to spread the TRUTH.

That's pretty much what I've done. Although, I never realized that the best and most credible sources for 'facts' where rense.com and prisonplanet.com. So I'm sorry if my sources....engineers, physics professors, etc....aren't as 'qualified' as Joe Blogger when it comes to things like this.

Like I said. Do your homework.

Take your own fucking advice and don't let your hatred of George Bush turn your mind to mush. We get it, Bush sucks...but you can't claim in one breath that he's a bumbling moron and then in the next breath claim that he masterminded the greatest, most expansive, most secretive, most destructive single terror attack in the history of the modern world.



Thanks for playing...

[R.BuddDwyer]

Today, the general majority when polled about JFK believe a conspiracy was involved.

Thanks to Oliver Stone.

You really believe Osama, a man made rich by our government when paid billions to kill the soviets with his Mujhadeen, would have any reason to attack the people that made him rich?

Yes. He's got his money. You think the savage has some warm fuzzy sense of thanks and loyalty? No, he turned when the gravy train stopped after '89. Why wouldn't he?



Governments have been using false flag terror at massively affect the consciousness of its people. Even Hitler did it with the Reichstag.

This isn't even the point. It's the feasibility of performing such a task at all. It's impossible, plain and simple. Also: Even Hitler? What a hard thing to believe; that a man responsible for the death of millions and a war against most of the world would resort to such underhanded tactics!

Just do your fucking homework. I give those guys, even though they came off as incredibly uneloquent, some major credit. They are doing the work the rest of you ignorant sheep should be doing, and that's trying to spread the TRUTH.

Like I said. Do your homework.

Do yours douchebag. What are your sources? What are their and your credentials? You have no idea how weak-minded your little 'mission' proves you to be. You're not far off from a religious fanaticist. You eat up whatever will allow you to identify yourself as the truely enlightened and informed person among the dumbed masses and justify your self-involved, presumptuous desire to throw down life lessons.

I sincerely hope you rebut. Throw us down some truth, point by point. We look forward (I know I am) to shutting them down with qualified, logical arguments that will make you look like a child.

[R.BuddDwyer]

Wait, wait. Frrrrrrrrrunkis, right? Good one you!

[Jerry1]

The US did support the Mujahadeen against the Soviets during the 80's. Bin Laden went to Afghanistan to join the fight against the Soviets.
When the Soviets pulled out we stopped supporting the Afghans instead of helping rebuild their country(I think the Soviets & Chinese helped Vietnam after the US left.) So it left the country in anarchy til the Taliban took control.
Now, Bin Laden didn't have a problem with the US until we sent troops to Saudia Arabia in 1990...well after the Soviet-Afghan conflict was over. Osama felt that western forces anywhere near Mecca was polluting the Islamic way of life. That's when he decided to go against the West.
Funny how he went against us when we were defending two Islamic countries against another Islamic country. Unappreciative little prick. Still remember in 92 when Hurrican Andrews hit Florida, guess who was a big donater to help those hit by the hurricane....Kuwait!(At least someone appreciates us!)

[TheDrip]

In typical Truther (ugh) fashion, he pulled the old "You're just not intelligent enough to see the clear picture of what happened" card.

We get it, you're just sooooo enlightened that you're in tune with all the secrets and mysteries of the world.


Now go find Bigfoot, shitdick.

[Ballbuster1]

One post and he runs away. Way to try and defend your point of view.:rolleyes:

[tysonpunchinguterus]

They're just a bunch of attention whores screaming at O & A as they walked by. That kid sulking away just proved how immature and stupid they are.

[Jerry1]

It's so nice to be the guy who knows what he's talking about.
What bugs me most about these conspiracy people is that they think they know more than you and you have to listen to them and God help you if you question them. However if you have a theory of what happened they can question the hell out of you though.

Good job to all!

[mendozathejew]

One post and he runs away. Way to try and defend your point of view.:rolleyes:

I bet hes looking up possible answers as we speak. they learn the conspiracy and actual historical facts as they go along it seems

[Budyzir]

And I'm sick of ignorant, reactionst twits that write off truthers as being psychos and loons. When Kennedy was shot, a lot of people instantly thought it was a conspiracy, and those whom believed that were instantly written off as pyshcos. Today, the general majority when polled about JFK believe a conspiracy was involved.

You really believe Osama, a man made rich by our government when paid billions to kill the soviets with his Mujhadeen, would have any reason to attack the people that made him rich?

Governments have been using false flag terror at massively affect the consciousness of its people. Even Hitler did it with the Reichstag.


Just do your fucking homework. I give those guys, even though they came off as incredibly uneloquent, some major credit. They are doing the work the rest of you ignorant sheep should be doing, and that's trying to spread the TRUTH.

Like I said. Do your homework.

All your base are belong to us.

[Jerry1]

One post and he runs away. Way to try and defend your point of view.:rolleyes:

DAMN! YOU'VE JUST BEEN PO'WNED!(linger longer!)

[cokelogic]

I want to talk about the 2G/1C conspiracy.

[R.BuddDwyer]

One post and he runs away. Way to try and defend your point of view.:rolleyes:

Now, now, let's give him the benefit of the doubt. He only posted less than an hour ago.

It will give us time to get together the proper advanced, sensitive equipment required to truly absorb all the answers to life's questions he has to offer.


http://people.csail.mit.edu/rahimi/helmet/ali2.jpg


OK....SHOOT! *points*

[hehateme]

I want to talk about the 2G/1C conspiracy.

It wasn't real shit....it was chocolate pudding. It's a ruse that was orchestrated by the Jello organization. And if you follow the chocolate path you'll see that it goes all the way up to Bill Cosby!!, with Lyndon Johnson waiting in the wings.... THIS IS A GRAND CONSPIRACY OF THE HIGHEST ORDER!, Jello, Swiss Miss, Count Chocula, and the M and M guys are all in on it....OPEN YOUR EYES...IT'S A RIDDLE WRAPPED INSIDE AN ENIGMA!! DON'T YOU FUCKIN GET IT!!!! THEY'RE GONNA FUCKIN KILL ME MANNNNN!

[Three Hole Puncher]

You really believe Osama, a man made rich by our government when paid billions to kill the soviets with his Mujhadeen, would have any reason to attack the people that made him rich?

This has GOT to be one of the most ridiculous statements I have ever seen made.

Fucking ponderous.

[mendozathejew]

This has GOT to be one of the most ridiculous statements I have ever seen made.

Fucking ponderous.

what a way to open his argument

[Turfmower]

Yanqui UXO read this Man

http://www.debunk911myths.org/topics/Controlled_demolition

[oafanwyo]

Apparently these people have never went to the post office to see how well the government can fuck up sending a letter. Do you really think they could do something as elaborate as bringing down the World Trade Center?

[ollie]

And I'm sick of ignorant, reactionst twits that write off truthers as being psychos and loons. When Kennedy was shot, a lot of people instantly thought it was a conspiracy, and those whom believed that were instantly written off as pyshcos. Today, the general majority when polled about JFK believe a conspiracy was involved.

You really believe Osama, a man made rich by our government when paid billions to kill the soviets with his Mujhadeen, would have any reason to attack the people that made him rich?

Governments have been using false flag terror at massively affect the consciousness of its people. Even Hitler did it with the Reichstag.


Just do your fucking homework. I give those guys, even though they came off as incredibly uneloquent, some major credit. They are doing the work the rest of you ignorant sheep should be doing, and that's trying to spread the TRUTH.

Like I said. Do your homework.

Looks like the "Angry young man" found the board maaaaaaaaaaaaaaaan!!!

[Budyzir]

Originally Posted by Yanqui UXO View Post
You really believe Osama, a man made rich by our government when paid billions to kill the soviets with his Mujhadeen, would have any reason to attack the people that made him rich?

This has GOT to be one of the most ridiculous statements I have ever seen made.

Fucking ponderous.

If I'm not mistaken, Osama was originally a "coat hanger on'er" While he did make a few bones in Afghanistan he was nothing more than a side lines player and used his money to support the so called caused.

[cigarsandscotch]

It's so obvious to me what everyone in this thread is trying to do, and I refuse to accept it. You are ALL part of the conspiracy, along with O&A and Jimmy. How much money are you being paid to be a part of the cover up? I hope you all enjoy your 30 pieces of silver. :action-sm

All kidding aside, these people are retarded. I had an accurate mental image of that one shithead before Jimmy called him a little bearded angry boy, which made me laugh out loud upon hearing.

[Gnoll_Teeth]

Long time lurker, first time poster...

What of the poor kid that has to write a paper about 9/11 for school? Who is he or she to believe when a Google search retrieves hundreds (thousands?) of 9/11 conspiracy web sites?

It's too easy to debunk the "truthers" and I salute the b-b-b-boys for confronting those dolts on the show.

[Wick]

why u gotta be so glib?

[Legend of Snuka]

Like Ronnie B always says...."Carnies and Rubes"

Carnies make websites and books to make money off of rubes such as the "truthers" that were on the radio today...

Fiction will always sell more than true life...

[Thelateshowkid]

You really believe Osama, a man made rich by our government when paid billions to kill the soviets with his Mujhadeen, would have any reason to attack the people that made him rich?

Really shitdick? So if he loves us then who was responsible for the 92 WTC bombings? How bout the Madrid 2004, London 05, and then the car bombs this summer in England? All of which he claimed responsibility for. Did we stage all of those too?

[disgustip8ed]

i don't know if anyone has brought this up (I think I didn't see it in the previous posts), but what these 'truthers' are saying is that the CIA planted the explosives in the very spot that the planes hit? Because the government is absolutely that capable of pulling something that perfect off . . .


I've got a degree in fire engineering, and I'm a fireman, and there is nothing that shows the towers or the pentagon was a controlled demolition.

/RIP 343
//RIP Chris Blackwell, rescue 3, decorated veteran many times over . . . cause thats the kind of person the government would want to get rid of.

[mendozathejew]

Really shitdick? So if he loves us then who was responsible for the 92 WTC bombings? How bout the Madrid 2004, London 05, and then the car bombs this summer in England? All of which he claimed responsibility for. Did we stage all of those too?

yes we did. its a conspiracy totaling 2 presidents, 4 administrations with 3 fbi directors and 5 cia directors. its not something they like to spell out because adding the clinton administration puts a whole new dimension on this foolishness.

[nikoloslvy]

does anyone have the link to foundry music video of the walk over today?

an

http://9-11.meetup.com/321/calendar/6816360/?gj=sj29

Home > All Topics > Politics & Activism > Issues > 9/11 Questions Meetups Everywhere > WE ARE CHANGE - Greater NY 911 Truth Activist Groups Unite
Also in: Conspiracy · Grassroots Progressives
WE ARE CHANGE - Greater NY 911 Truth Activist Groups Unite


Organizer:
Matthew Lepacek
Asst. Organizers:
Brian, Luke Rudkowski, Mike Knarr, Rob, Sabrina Rivera, Tom Foti
Join WE ARE CHANGE - Greater NY 911 Truth Activist Groups Unite!

TRUTH SQUAD ALERT! - OPIE & ANTHONY


Opie and anthony attacked 911 truth groups including the
Loose Change film, calling us conspiracy theory nuts and accusing us of
making claims with no basis. They said they brought in the members of
Loose Change on a previous show to have a discussion with them but had
to end the show half-way through because the Loose Change members had no answers
and were absolutely incompetent. The hosts spent a lot of time discussing the
allegations that no airplane hit the pentagon and that it was very clear that
there was landing gear and airplane parts all over the place. Later,
listeners called in to support the hosts. One caller claimed to be a 911
surviver, saying he was inside the World Trade Center on the 22nd floor
while the building collapsed, falling 18 floors with the concrete and
survived. He said there were absolutely no explosives and that such
theories are just ridiculous. They also defended the Popular Mechanics
report on 911.

When and Where:

Friday, November 30, 2007 at 8:00 AM
(No location was chosen)
Event rating:
3.0
Attendance:

It's estimated that 7 people attended.

Hide photos

*
Gunita Singh

"these guys were total assholes- it was my first confrontation"
*
Luis

"screw those fucks from ny 911 truth"
*
Eric Draitser
*
Mike Swenson
*
Patrick Moroney

[Monstercloud]

Girl looks hot, and probably a bit of a nerd... but will probably annoy you with her views.

...oh yeah, fuck 'em.

[livebackwards]

Don't know if anyone's posted this in this thread yet (I skimmed, but didn't read every post... proud of you guys, though, for knowing this bullshit is what it is). It's a great point-by-point refutation of Loose Change as well as an examination into the motivations of the two jerkoffs in charge (Corey Rowe and Something Avery).

Was 9/11 An Inside Job? (Hint: No.) (http://www.pointlesswasteoftime.com/911truth.html)

[nikoloslvy]

Girl looks hot, and probably a bit of a nerd... but will probably annoy you with her views.

...oh yeah, fuck 'em.
link for video?

[Budyzir]

I have no doubt that latter, after the walk over, these assholes ran back home and, while sitting in one of their parent's basements, complimented each other about how coll and dominating they were, high fiving each other with with Dorrito's dust covered fingers.

AARRGGHHHH!

It's just not worth the aggravation to debate with them.

yup, somewhere tonight they'll type some faggoty blog about how they matched Op Ant and Jim point for point and look like champs and everyone else is uninformed maaaaaaaaaaan. Fucking douches, die.

does anyone have the link to foundry music video of the walk over today?

an

http://9-11.meetup.com/321/calendar/6816360/?gj=sj29

Home > All Topics > Politics & Activism > Issues > 9/11 Questions Meetups Everywhere > WE ARE CHANGE - Greater NY 911 Truth Activist Groups Unite
Also in: Conspiracy · Grassroots Progressives
WE ARE CHANGE - Greater NY 911 Truth Activist Groups Unite


Organizer:
Matthew Lepacek
Asst. Organizers:
Brian, Luke Rudkowski, Mike Knarr, Rob, Sabrina Rivera, Tom Foti
Join WE ARE CHANGE - Greater NY 911 Truth Activist Groups Unite!

TRUTH SQUAD ALERT! - OPIE & ANTHONY


Opie and anthony attacked 911 truth groups including the
Loose Change film, calling us conspiracy theory nuts and accusing us of
making claims with no basis. They said they brought in the members of
Loose Change on a previous show to have a discussion with them but had
to end the show half-way through because the Loose Change members had no answers
and were absolutely incompetent. The hosts spent a lot of time discussing the
allegations that no airplane hit the pentagon and that it was very clear that
there was landing gear and airplane parts all over the place. Later,
listeners called in to support the hosts. One caller claimed to be a 911
surviver, saying he was inside the World Trade Center on the 22nd floor
while the building collapsed, falling 18 floors with the concrete and
survived. He said there were absolutely no explosives and that such
theories are just ridiculous. They also defended the Popular Mechanics
report on 911.

When and Where:

Friday, November 30, 2007 at 8:00 AM
(No location was chosen)
Event rating:
3.0
Attendance:

It's estimated that 7 people attended.

Hide photos

*
Gunita Singh

"these guys were total assholes- it was my first confrontation"
*
Luis

"screw those fucks from ny 911 truth"
*
Eric Draitser
*
Mike Swenson
*
Patrick Moroney

:jump:jump:jump:jump:jump


And there it is!

[caniseeyourtaint]

And I'm sick of ignorant, reactionst twits that write off truthers as being psychos and loons. When Kennedy was shot, a lot of people instantly thought it was a conspiracy, and those whom believed that were instantly written off as pyshcos. Today, the general majority when polled about JFK believe a conspiracy was involved.

You really believe Osama, a man made rich by our government when paid billions to kill the soviets with his Mujhadeen, would have any reason to attack the people that made him rich?

Governments have been using false flag terror at massively affect the consciousness of its people. Even Hitler did it with the Reichstag.


Just do your fucking homework. I give those guys, even though they came off as incredibly uneloquent, some major credit. They are doing the work the rest of you ignorant sheep should be doing, and that's trying to spread the TRUTH.

Like I said. Do your homework.


You sir, are the load your mom shoulda swallowed.

[livebackwards]

And I'm sick of ignorant, reactionst twits that write off truthers as being psychos and loons. When Kennedy was shot, a lot of people instantly thought it was a conspiracy, and those whom believed that were instantly written off as pyshcos. Today, the general majority when polled about JFK believe a conspiracy was involved.

You really believe Osama, a man made rich by our government when paid billions to kill the soviets with his Mujhadeen, would have any reason to attack the people that made him rich?

Governments have been using false flag terror at massively affect the consciousness of its people. Even Hitler did it with the Reichstag.


Just do your fucking homework. I give those guys, even though they came off as incredibly uneloquent, some major credit. They are doing the work the rest of you ignorant sheep should be doing, and that's trying to spread the TRUTH.

Like I said. Do your homework.

OK, I did my homework. Why would Osama attack the people who made him rich? Because of our support for Israel and our military policies in the Middle East. How do I know? BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT HE FUCKING SAID. I don't know where you've been, but this motherfucker puts out a video every couple of years and tells us ALLLLL about what we've done to piss him off. Why don't you try doing some homework, you fucking follower jizzbucket.

"You're all sheep, MAAAAAAN." Yeah, and I guess that makes you a shepherd. Get over your savior complex and go fuck yourself. You're not special, you're not helping, all you're doing is helping to make the world worthless with more lies, hurting people who have already been hurt more than enough. You're not a lone crusader who's going to set the world free, you're a cultist boob who can't say no to anything antisocial. Just quit it already, Jesus Christ.

[R.BuddDwyer]

O+A ATTACKED them? Fuck you, they clearly sniffed out and pounced on O+A like some Infecteds chasing a norm a-la 28 Days Later.

Otherwise they just concede O+A's points and that the Loose Change douches sucked at what they did.

these guys were total assholes- it was my first confrontation

Just what an unintelligent woman would say when her ass is handed to her in an argument, using the Bob Kelly method of rehersal parroting. "DUUUUUUDE, phone calls at that altitude have a .08% of working duuude.

[nikoloslvy]

:jump:jump:jump:jump:jump


And there it is!
:action-sm
is the video up on foundry?

[xloosefusionx]

See, its times like this that I, as a "truther", am fucking embarassed by it.

Yes, I have alot of questions about 9/11 that dont jive with the official story and dont make sense at all, ie, the lack of medical and financial support for the rescue workers who are dying of diseases caused by the air they were told was clean to breath by the EPA 2 days after 9/11. That makes no sense to me. To generalize, I have questions about not only what happened on 9/11, but what happened afterword that reeks of corruption.

With that said, yes, I would like to see a new, complete, independent investigation into all facets of the events leading up to, itself and after, but Im also aware that doing what WeAreChange and the rest of the "angry boy" people do is completely counterproductive. The people they spoke to during the walkover were just parroting (ironic how they said O&A parrot for the media) lines from Loose Change and the books they suggested (Ive read them and know it was more or less word for word) and their whole smug "because we care" bit was fucking stupid. Just because someone doesnt agree with you doesnt mean they're wrong or dont care and by saying that, you look like an asshole. Jimmy and Anthony wrecked them without yelling and getting loud and they didnt like it, period. Furthermore, they were so unwilling to budge on their point they couldnt atleast acknowledge Jimmy's point about taking the buildings out from the bottom, toppling them over and killing thousands more people. Ive thought about something similar at the Pentagon that they could have just divebombed the plane into the top of the building, causing more damage and more death, but alot of these "truthers" are so close minded to their movies and books they wont acknowledge any other points.

As a sidenote, for the people who say people who question 9/11 are pissing on the victims and the victims families...a majority of the people calling for a new investigation are victims family members. What these people (like the ones during the walkover) are doing is misrepresenting a point of view and being pompous, pretentious children about it. Its like the same people who dont listen to O&A because "of their politics", its fucking stupid. I disagree with alot of what the boys say, but they make me laugh and entertain me everyday, so what they believe politically is irrelevant.

[Hog's Big Ben]

Girl looks hot, and probably a bit of a nerd... but will probably annoy you with her views.

...oh yeah, fuck 'em.

http://photos3.meetupstatic.com/photos/member/6/9/d/5/member_2607093.jpeg

She should have come up for some stripper pole action.

[d0uche_n0zzle]

http://photos3.meetupstatic.com/photos/member/6/9/d/5/member_2607093.jpeg

She should have come up for some stripper pole action.

And some good old fashioned mouth fucking.

[Jimmy's Junk]

Why do Yanqui UXO and the rest of Conspiracy Cunts all believe the steel needed to melt in order for the towers to collapse, the steel only needed to be weakened. Yes, it is true that jet fuel does not burn hot enough to melt steel but it does burn hot enough to weaken steel. If the Conspiracy Cunts would do this simple experiment it would blow their whole argument of an inside job. I want them to go Home Depot and buy a length of rebar (ask any attendent) build a small wood fire in your back yard and place that piece of steel in the fire for 30 to 40 minutes (about the length of time the towers burned). Take the rod out and see how easily it bends. Keep in mind that wood burns at a much lower tempurature than jet fuel. Now imagine the weight of 10's of floors being transfered through that weakened point. If you can't see how that would cause a collapse than you might be the dumbest person on the planet.

[norton23]

99.9% of crackheads believe in the conspiracy theory stuff,,,same people for the most part that believe in the aliens bullshit.

Im dead serious= it's because of the side effects of oversensitve thinking and analyzing as well as extreme paranoi.

[THE FEZ MAN]

Why do Yanqui UXO and the rest of Conspiracy Cunts all believe the steel needed to melt in order for the towers to collapse, the steel only needed to be weakened. Yes, it is true that jet fuel does not burn hot enough to melt steel but it does burn hot enough to weaken steel. If the Conspiracy Cunts would do this simple experiment it would blow their whole argument of an inside job. I want them to go Home Depot and buy a length of rebar (ask any attendent) build a small wood fire in your back yard and place that piece of steel in the fire for 30 to 40 minutes (about the length of time the towers burned). Take the rod out and see how easily it bends. Keep in mind that wood burns at a much lower tempurature than jet fuel. Now imagine the weight of 10's of floors being transfered through that weakened point. If you can't see how that would cause a collapse than you might be the dumbest person on the planet.

why should they bother with a simple experiment? its easier to call people that understand BASIC physics, metallurgy and mechanics, assholes than it is to accept BASIC science. those fucktards deserve any abuse they get. i personally love to debate there "facts" and then just debunk them, yet you can show these idiots exactly why something happened yet they wont believe it

my favorites are the moon landing guys

[Ciarin]

http://photos3.meetupstatic.com/photos/member/6/9/d/5/member_2607093.jpeg

She should have come up for some stripper pole action.

I like the shirt though :)

[Reaper G]

And I'm sick of ignorant, reactionst twits that write off truthers as being psychos and loons. When Kennedy was shot, a lot of people instantly thought it was a conspiracy, and those whom believed that were instantly written off as pyshcos. Today, the general majority when polled about JFK believe a conspiracy was involved.

You really believe Osama, a man made rich by our government when paid billions to kill the soviets with his Mujhadeen, would have any reason to attack the people that made him rich?

Governments have been using false flag terror at massively affect the consciousness of its people. Even Hitler did it with the Reichstag.


Just do your fucking homework. I give those guys, even though they came off as incredibly uneloquent, some major credit. They are doing the work the rest of you ignorant sheep should be doing, and that's trying to spread the TRUTH.

Like I said. Do your homework.


So, how was a demolition team able to plant explosives in two skyscrapers without 50,000 employees catching them?

Furthermore, if this is some sinister conspiracy, why haven't the "truthers" mysteriously disappeared along with the plane passengers?

[Gonzoid]

http://www.loosechangeguide.com


Website that pretty much destroys any ounce of merit one might try and put in the actual Loose Change movie. Great site.

Great link, Thanks!

Great statement at the beginning of the 5th page when talking about Osama's statement on how he had nothing to do with this: "These people do not believe a word that the government, experts and eyewitnesses say, yet they take Osama Bin Laden's word as gospel?!"

[Flush.Buy.Fuck]

Great link, Thanks!

Great statement at the beginning of the 5th page when talking about Osama's statement on how he had nothing to do with this: "These people do not believe a word that the government, experts and eyewitnesses say, yet they take Osama Bin Laden's word as gospel?!"


This is the kind of thing that bothers me most with 9/11 conspiracy people. All of us have to decide what to believe and not believe, these people choose not to believe what happened on 9/11 only because of its significance. We all understand that nothing is ever 100% but we all also understand that we need to accept things that are a million times more likely as truths to be able to function and continue on this planet. It is obvious that these people are rallying based on party lines and/or a need of self importance and not genuine passion. This has to be true because these people would not be on the streets if so because they would have gone mad. They would be unable to believe anything considered a truth throughout human history. Major events such as war, the dinosaur age, and our evolutionary timeline can all be questioned and considered in the same fashion as 9/11 conspiracy people view 9/11. Even small events in one's everyday life could not be considered legit, and one would go mad in a world where nothing can be taken as real.

[Hudson]

There's nothing almost about it. They're basically pissing on the graves of every 9/11 victim when they spout their ignorance.
I can't stand the conspiracy theorists....I worked at Ground Zero the days following and was on a rig the day of...

One caller claimed to be a 911
surviver, saying he was inside the World Trade Center on the 22nd floor
while the building collapsed, falling 18 floors with the concrete and
survived.
I don't remember that!

[hudsonharden]

The "Why" question seems pretty easy to answer to me. Bush's approval rating soared and people were more than willing to give up their freedom in the name of security against the Arab menace. As long as we knew that the gov't was defending us against terrorism, it didn't matter what they were or were not doing elsewhere.

The "How" question is one I have no answer for. I will admit that I bought into Loose Change until I realized that it wasn't an actual documentary and really didn't have any scholarly sources to back up its assertions. The quality with which it is edited leads on to believe that the same quality went into researching it. This could not be farther from the truth.

When people talk about a "government conspiracy," what government do they mean? The President? The C.I.A.? The F.B.I.? Congress? The NYPD/FDNY? How deep does this go? If people are so sure of some American/Western force being behind this, then who?

I completely understand why people buy into this. They want to feel like they are a part of the cause, that they are the one's standing up to the government and demanding change, and this is the most blatant way that they can express their distrust and disapproval. They also want a singular entity to blame for everything bad that has happened in the last 6 years, and 9/11 being the worst of those, it would not shock me to hear these people blame the government for Hurricane Katrina, California wildfires, or staph infection.

[hudsonharden]

...they latch onto one or two incongruities and ignore the vast majority of the evidence.

Kind of like Anthony with global warming?

;)

[WOWmagnet]

See, its times like this that I, as a "truther",

bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla
bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla blabla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla blabla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla blabla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla
bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla blabla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla blabla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla blabla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla blabla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla

bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla blabla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla

After "truther" I just drift off.....

[Jerry1]

I completely understand why people buy into this. They want to feel like they are a part of the cause, that they are the one's standing up to the government and demanding change, and this is the most blatant way that they can express their distrust and disapproval. They also want a singular entity to blame for everything bad that has happened in the last 6 years, and 9/11 being the worst of those, it would not shock me to hear these people blame the government for Hurricane Katrina, California wildfires, or staph infection.

Some of them feel exactly that. They feel better than everyone else because they know more than everyone else.
Alot of them just don't want to believe that there are people out there in the world who would do something like this....except in our own government.

[MatrixOutsider]

Also, controlled demolitions require miles of guide cables, trigger wires, cutting beams and placing bombs in the right place. All of this cannot possibly be hidden from the office workers. You cannot lob a few bombs in some crawl spaces and hope for the best.

Even if somehow the above gets done, the bombs are not stable in high heat and the trigger wires would have melted and the bombs would have exploded out of sequence once the jet fuel started burning all over them, thus making this an uncontrollable demolition that would not have resulted in the buildings falling neatly.

[MatrixOutsider]

And I'm sick of ignorant, reactionst twits that write off truthers as being psychos and loons. When Kennedy was shot, a lot of people instantly thought it was a conspiracy, and those whom believed that were instantly written off as pyshcos. Today, the general majority when polled about JFK believe a conspiracy was involved.

You really believe Osama, a man made rich by our government when paid billions to kill the soviets with his Mujhadeen, would have any reason to attack the people that made him rich?

Governments have been using false flag terror at massively affect the consciousness of its people. Even Hitler did it with the Reichstag.


Just do your fucking homework. I give those guys, even though they came off as incredibly uneloquent, some major credit. They are doing the work the rest of you ignorant sheep should be doing, and that's trying to spread the TRUTH.

Like I said. Do your homework.

I did my homework and I can't figure out why the government didn't just plant a few WMD's in order to garner support for the upcoming war. Why would the government conspire to kill its own citizens instead of planting some WMD's? Occam's razor, my friend, learn it and apply it.

[WOWmagnet]

And I'm sick of ignorant, reactionst twits that write off truthers as being psychos and loons. When Kennedy was shot, a lot of people instantly thought it was a conspiracy, and those whom believed that were instantly written off as pyshcos. Today, the general majority when polled about JFK believe a conspiracy was involved.

You really believe Osama, a man made rich by our government when paid billions to kill the soviets with his Mujhadeen, would have any reason to attack the people that made him rich?

Governments have been using false flag terror at massively affect the consciousness of its people. Even Hitler did it with the Reichstag.


Just do your fucking homework. I give those guys, even though they came off as incredibly uneloquent, some major credit. They are doing the work the rest of you ignorant sheep should be doing, and that's trying to spread the TRUTH.

Like I said. Do your homework.

I call shenanigans on this post. Nobody can be that much of a tool, can they?


Just sayin...

[Jerry1]

Also, controlled demolitions require miles of guide cables, trigger wires, cutting beams and placing bombs in the right place. All of this cannot possibly be hidden from the office workers. You cannot lob a few bombs in some crawl spaces and hope for the best.

Even if somehow the above gets done, the bombs are not stable in high heat and the trigger wires would have melted and the bombs would have exploded out of sequence once the jet fuel started burning all over them, thus making this an uncontrollable demolition that would not have resulted in the buildings falling neatly.

That is a good point. The impact of the 767 slamming into the tower and the resulting fires would have cut the wiring for the charges on the floors. So a controlled demolition would have been nearly impossible.

[Plunkies]

You guys are being glib.

[Hudson]

You guys are being glib. No, We are Parroting

[THE FEZ MAN]

I did my homework and I can't figure out why the government didn't just plant a few WMD's in order to garner support for the upcoming war. Why would the government conspire to kill its own citizens instead of planting some WMD's? Occam's razor, my friend, learn it and apply it.

ive said that from the beginning, if the us government was going to stage a fund raiser wouldn't it make more sense to detonate a stolen Russian brief case bomb some were? the logistics surrounding a controlled demolition is insurmountable, but a small team of spooks could easily pull off a single detonation, most likely with a better body count and less of a chance of a blabber mouth ruining it

[Death Metal Moe]

Maddox spoke about the fucking cum dumpster who made that Loose Change video awhile ago and he brings up a few good arguments as well. Nothing new, just funny to read his take on things.

Link (http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=911_morons)

[Death Metal Moe]

And did some motherfucking self-important douche actually say 'Do your homework' AGAIN?!

That is the fucking MANTRA of these people. They're just so much more connected, smarter and dedicated than all us "sheep." I really hope that was a fake post because if it wasn't, you're a sad asshole.

[Death Metal Moe]

Uuugh, and they call themselves "Truthers" like they're so much better than the rest of us too. They are the only ones that see the truth guys.

Bow to them.

Hey "Truthers." If you don't see why a vast majority of peoploe write your smug bullshit off right from the start, you have a lot of heavy self examining to do again. You come off so fucking full of yourselves I may vomit on my laptop here.

Then when people don't listen they're sheep, or if they tear apart one of your dogshit points they "should do their homework." It's like a religion. You can't counter them because they have faith in the conspiracy.

Like if I questioned one of the millions of lies of religion, I'd get something along the lines of "God works in mysterious ways" or "God closes one door and opens another." Complete horseshit. With these assholes it's just a different mindless mantra. "Do your homework."

Awful, awful people.

[UwannaCmyHatAsk]

Anyone who is animated while talking about something that is not widely proven as truth should be shot.

[Three Hole Puncher]

Anyone who is animated while talking about something that is not widely proven as truth should be shot.

No...

Anyone who is animated when they accuse innocent people (air traffic controllers, military service personnel, scientists, police, politicians, firefighters, etc...) of mass murdering thousands of their fellow countrymen without a shred of solid evidence to back any of it up should be shot... in the face. Repeatedly.

[UwannaCmyHatAsk]

No...

Anyone who is animated when they accuse innocent people (air traffic controllers, military service personnel, scientists, police, politicians, firefighters, etc...) of mass murdering thousands of their fellow countrymen without a shred of solid evidence to back any of it up should be shot... in the face. Repeatedly.

Sir, I believe you have solidly fixed my previous post.

CORRECT.

[THE FEZ MAN]

my question is what can you say to these assholes that proves them wrong? other than the facts, that they refuse to accept. there nothing but bullshit attention whores, and i hope some one corrects them in public

[UwannaCmyHatAsk]

my question is what can you say to these assholes that proves them wrong? other than the facts, that they refuse to accept. there nothing but bullshit attention whores, and i hope some one corrects them in public
It's always the douche college guy.. or guy who really wants to present how if we would have gone to college he'd be a valedictorian at will. The Illuminati Coast to Coast older gentlemen are a give, but only laughable.

It's these faggot children that feel their newly established "adult logical brain" is something to be reckoned with.

I'd love to make a wall of text about these fuckshits, but I can see most here already understand it.

[EnwordLips]

I do not really know what to believe. People say the "truthers" have no solid proof but from what I hear they seem to have alot more proof than anyone who says it was Osama and his gang of hijackers. I also think the argument that a controlled demolition would be soooo dificult for someone to pull off to be ignorant. It could not be any harder for the U.S. government to setup a controlled demolition than it would be for middle eastern terrorists to sneak into this country, recieve enough training to fly passenger jet airliners, get on the plane with box cutters, and then take over the plane using just box cutters.

I do not know that I believe there is any truth in what the truthers say but I do believe to many people do write them off as crazy. Altough Loose Change is certainly a very swayed movie I think even if half of it is half is half true, there are some serious questions we will need answered.

No matter what happened on 9/11 I am certain in another 50 years there will be a whole different explanation on it.

I mean Osama both claimed responsibility for the attacks and has denied having anything to do with them.

All I know for sure is terrorism is not a real threat and 9/11 has made it a real threat in the majority's minds

[UwannaCmyHatAsk]

I do not really know what to believe. People say the "truthers" have no solid proof but from what I hear they seem to have alot more proof than anyone who says it was Osama and his gang of hijackers. I also think the argument that a controlled demolition would be soooo dificult for someone to pull off to be ignorant. It could not be any harder for the U.S. government to setup a controlled demolition than it would be for middle eastern terrorists to sneak into this country, recieve enough training to fly passenger jet airliners, get on the plane with box cutters, and then take over the plane using just box cutters.

I do not know that I believe there is any truth in what the truthers say but I do believe to many people do write them off as crazy. Altough Loose Change is certainly a very swayed movie I think even if half of it is half is half true, there are some serious questions we will need answered.

No matter what happened on 9/11 I am certain in another 50 years there will be a whole different explanation on it.

I mean Osama both claimed responsibility for the attacks and has denied having anything to do with them.

All I know for sure is terrorism is not a real threat and 9/11 has made it a real threat in the majority's minds
Is part of this "proof" the explaination that there were no plane parts at the pentagon scene?

[Its A Hemi]

The funny thing is, the people who are in power now were these fucking douchebags in the 60's. Now some 30 odd years later, they are apparently conspirators, and a new generation of "educated" do-gooders is on the scene to "right the wrongs, maaaaaaaan"

30 years from now, that fag Luis who was blabbering about how evil the country is will be President, and he'll invade Guatemala or some shit.

[Its A Hemi]

I do not really know what to believe. People say the "truthers" have no solid proof but from what I hear they seem to have alot more proof than anyone who says it was Osama and his gang of hijackers. I also think the argument that a controlled demolition would be soooo dificult for someone to pull off to be ignorant. It could not be any harder for the U.S. government to setup a controlled demolition than it would be for middle eastern terrorists to sneak into this country, recieve enough training to fly passenger jet airliners, get on the plane with box cutters, and then take over the plane using just box cutters.

I do not know that I believe there is any truth in what the truthers say but I do believe to many people do write them off as crazy. Altough Loose Change is certainly a very swayed movie I think even if half of it is half is half true, there are some serious questions we will need answered.

No matter what happened on 9/11 I am certain in another 50 years there will be a whole different explanation on it.

I mean Osama both claimed responsibility for the attacks and has denied having anything to do with them.

All I know for sure is terrorism is not a real threat and 9/11 has made it a real threat in the majority's minds

Smart enough to pull off the biggest conspiracy in human history, but can't even plant some poison gas in Iraq so we don't look like the biggest assholes on the planet. Yeah, that makes sense. Even giving a minute amount of consideration to a controlled demolition or any of that nonsense is retarded, stop it.

[gleet]

I also think the argument that a controlled demolition would be soooo dificult for someone to pull off to be ignorant. It could not be any harder for the U.S. government to setup a controlled demolition than it would be for middle eastern terrorists to sneak into this country, recieve enough training to fly passenger jet airliners, get on the plane with box cutters, and then take over the plane using just box cutters...


All I know for sure is terrorism is not a real threat and 9/11 has made it a real threat in the majority's minds

Middle eastern terrorists have a hard time sneaking in, but any Mexican field worker with no education comes and goes at will. I think they could sneak in.

Once they are here, with a big wallet, they call an aviation training school and want to enroll. The school makes money by accepting students. Not a stretch to get enrolled.

Keeping an airplane in the air is not hard. Landing and takeoff are hard. A friend with videogame experience was able to keep the Learjet trainer in the air and fly around, when he was at the factory, but crashed every time he tried taking off or landing.

Box cutters were legal to take aboard back then. Many people who did service work had fairly complete toolkits they brought on. Nobody would think twice about a box cutter. One fact I heard right after 9-11 that I haven't heard much of since, one one flight they took a stewardess and basically gutted her with the box cutter, in front of everyone. Got their attention and made everyone sit down and realize these guys meant business.

In 50 years the truthers will be forgotten. Face it, the terrorists got lucky and got a solid hit on us.

[Three Hole Puncher]

I do not really know what to believe. People say the "truthers" have no solid proof but from what I hear they seem to have alot more proof than anyone who says it was Osama and his gang of hijackers. I also think the argument that a controlled demolition would be soooo dificult for someone to pull off to be ignorant. It could not be any harder for the U.S. government to setup a controlled demolition than it would be for middle eastern terrorists to sneak into this country, recieve enough training to fly passenger jet airliners, get on the plane with box cutters, and then take over the plane using just box cutters.

-Terrorists sneak into, out of, back into, etc... the U.S. on a regular basis. What would lead you believe that they couldn't, haven't, don't, or can't?

-Getting enough training to fly a jet airliner in the manner the 9/11 terrorists did is a rather simple matter. Expert civilian airliner pilots have testified that it's entirely plausible for the terrorists to have flown the planes in the manner the planes were flown on 9/11.

-Why would you think that it would be difficult to get a box cutter on a civilian airliner? Even with post-9/11 security measures in place, tests have shown that weapons can still be smuggled past security to this very day.

-Why would it be difficult/impossible to take over a plane using a box cutter in the pre-9/11 world? Have you ever seen the type of wound a box cutter can inflict on a human being?

As far as setting up a controlled demolition of the WTC towers... if you can't grasp the difficulties in achieving such a task completely undetected, then I'm afraid you need to do your homework. I hate to sound like "truther" dimwit, but seriously... you need to do a little research into the science of controlled demolitions of large structures. Even a little research should suffice.

[ginaf20697]

It takes a hell of a lot of time AND labor to pull off a controlled demolition. Don't they have to plant explosives to the exposed framework? You can't just shove a pile of explosives in an empty storage room. Anyone who thinks this sort of operation could go unnoticed in a building as busy as the WTC is clearly retarded.

[EnwordLips]

I am not saying for a second they set up a controlled demolition. When you people talk about how difficult it is to set up a controlled demolition you are talking about empty buildings they bring down in such a way that it does not damage surrounding buildings. If the buildings were rigged with explosives it would not be as complicated as bringing down a building in a safe way. I mean come on they didnt even have to totally destroy the steel beams they only had to "warp the steel"

I saw loose change and the man who trained the terrorist who flew the plane into the pentagon said he was not skilled enough to make the turn it made to hit the building. In fact supposedly the turn the plane made would have been next to impossible for even the most experienced of commercial pilots.

Wasn't it like 3 out of 4 of the black boxes in the WTC planes not found? How can you identify the terrorists bodies if you cant find a "indestructible" black box. Also the story that one of the hijackers was identified by his fucking wallet, i mean come on. I am sure you all heard of the strange stock trading going on preceeding 9/11, do not know if it means anything but it is certainly suspicious. And the owner of the building recengtly took out a larger insurance plane specifically protecting against planes. And I am sure you all know Bush's brother, head of security for WTC stopped working there the day before.

I remember reading in newsweek a week or so after 9/11. They printed many eyewitness accounts of explosions going off thoughout the building and an increased presence of government officials in the buildings. This was way before any of this "truther" bullshit. I am certain there are things we are not hearing about.

[livebackwards]

I am not saying for a second they set up a controlled demolition. When you people talk about how difficult it is to set up a controlled demolition you are talking about empty buildings they bring down in such a way that it does not damage surrounding buildings. If the buildings were rigged with explosives it would not be as complicated as bringing down a building in a safe way. I mean come on they didnt even have to totally destroy the steel beams they only had to "warp the steel"

I saw loose change and the man who trained the terrorist who flew the plane into the pentagon said he was not skilled enough to make the turn it made to hit the building. In fact supposedly the turn the plane made would have been next to impossible for even the most experienced of commercial pilots.

Wasn't it like 3 out of 4 of the black boxes in the WTC planes not found? How can you identify the terrorists bodies if you cant find a "indestructible" black box. Also the story that one of the hijackers was identified by his fucking wallet, i mean come on. I am sure you all heard of the strange stock trading going on preceeding 9/11, do not know if it means anything but it is certainly suspicious. And the owner of the building recengtly took out a larger insurance plane specifically protecting against planes. And I am sure you all know Bush's brother, head of security for WTC stopped working there the day before.

I remember reading in newsweek a week or so after 9/11. They printed many eyewitness accounts of explosions going off thoughout the building and an increased presence of government officials in the buildings. This was way before any of this "truther" bullshit. I am certain there are things we are not hearing about.

Sir, I commend you for your questioning nature of both the government AND the truthers. However, any questions you have about 9/11 actually being an inside job will be put to rest here.

A valuable link. Click it. Read it. (http://www.pointlesswasteoftime.com/911truth.html)

It helps to know that the two men who started this whole thing are nothing more than con artists who keep changing their story. I don't trust the government either, but not because they're omnipotent shadow men... because they're opportunistic bumblers. Our current crop couldn't cobble together a decent conspiracy if Rasputin himself came back to help them.

[Death Metal Moe]

Look how easy it is to take things and place them where people THINK they belong AFTER the attack.

[EnwordLips]

Sir, I commend you for your questioning nature of both the government AND the truthers. However, any questions you have about 9/11 actually being an inside job will be put to rest here.

A valuable link. Click it. Read it. (http://www.pointlesswasteoftime.com/911truth.html)

It helps to know that the two men who started this whole thing are nothing more than con artists who keep changing their story. I don't trust the government either, but not because they're omnipotent shadow men... because they're opportunistic bumblers. Our current crop couldn't cobble together a decent conspiracy if Rasputin himself came back to help them.

I have not read this link you speak of. I really do not think questioning the integrity of the 2 people who started it has anything to do with it. The things loose change brings up should be questioned it does not really matter who put it into video form

[livebackwards]

I have not read this link you speak of. I really do not think questioning the integrity of the 2 people who started it has anything to do with it. The things loose change brings up should be questioned it does not really matter who put it into video form

Are you joking? If the two guys who put it together are two liars who filled the video with lies, how does that not matter?

And you didn't even go to the link? Okay. I take back my earlier commendation, since you're clearly not interested in actually "doing your homework".

[MatrixOutsider]

The explosions were caused by natural gas lines and transformers blowing out, not to mention compression noises and beams falling down shafts. Obviously, the witnesses were not explosive experts; they only described what they thought they heard. As for the controlled demolition, I have already explained why it was not possible. If it is not done correctly, buildings won't collapse at all. However, look at it from a humanistic perspective. Where would you find hundreds of people to agree to work together on a heinous plot without blowing the whistle?

From http://www.loosechangeguide.com/lcg3.html:

People do not understand the work involved in a controlled demolition. I have copied the information below from Controlled Demolition Inc's website. It shows the work involved in their world record (in terms of building height - 439 feet, or 134 meters), demolition of the J.L. Hudson building in Detroit:

Homrich/NASDI's 21 man crew needed three months to investigate the complex and four months to complete preparations for CDI's implosion design. During that period, the lower two basements of the structure were filled with engineered fill and the perimeter basement walls bermed to 1st basement level with soil to support perimeter walls which would surely have failed under soil and hydrostatic loads once the horizontal support of the Hudson's internal structure was removed by the implosion.

Double column rows installed in the structure between vertical construction phases, internal brick shear walls, x-bracing, 70 elevators and 10 stairwells created an extremely stiff frame. Columns

weighing over 500 lb/ft, having up to 7.25 inch thick laminated steel flanges and 6 inch thick webs, defied commercially available shaped charge technology. CDI analyzed each column, determined the actual load it carried and then used cutting torches to scarf-off steel plates in order to use smaller shaped charges to cut the remaining steel. CDI wanted to keep the charges as small as possible to reduce air over pressure that could break windows in adjacent properties.

CDI's 12 person loading crew took twenty-four days to place 4,118 separate charges in 1,100 locations on columns on nine levels of the complex. Over 36,000 ft of detonating cord and 4,512 non-electric delay elements were installed in CDI's implosion initiation system, some to create the 36 primary implosion sequence and another 216 micro-delays to keep down the detonation overpressure from the 2,728 lb of explosives which would be detonated during the demolition.

(Imagine all this stuff in a building that gets hit by a plane with a full load of jet fuel? It all melts or explode out of sequence because of the high heat).

[Three Hole Puncher]

I am not saying for a second they set up a controlled demolition. When you people talk about how difficult it is to set up a controlled demolition you are talking about empty buildings they bring down in such a way that it does not damage surrounding buildings. If the buildings were rigged with explosives it would not be as complicated as bringing down a building in a safe way. I mean come on they didnt even have to totally destroy the steel beams they only had to "warp the steel"

Demolitions charges aren't capable of totally destroying or warping steel. What they do is cut steel. No examples of cut steel were found in the WTC rubble. Plenty of warped steel was found. Fire warps steel... demolitions do not. Got it?

I saw loose change and the man who trained the terrorist who flew the plane into the pentagon said he was not skilled enough to make the turn it made to hit the building. In fact supposedly the turn the plane made would have been next to impossible for even the most experienced of commercial pilots.

Yet any commercial airline pilot or qualified aviation structural engineer will tell you that the turn was possible. The "loose changers" will ignore their testimony because it doesn't support their "theory". You will find that "truthers" often do this... ignore the testimony given by dozens of trained experts which refutes their claims, while instead opting to rely on the opinions of a handful of people who aren't nearly as qualified.

Why do you suppose that is?

Wasn't it like 3 out of 4 of the black boxes in the WTC planes not found? How can you identify the terrorists bodies if you cant find a "indestructible" black box. Also the story that one of the hijackers was identified by his fucking wallet, i mean come on.

Please show me one aviation engineer or expert who would consider a flight data recorder to be "indestructible"? Human DNA can be identified from tiny samples, flight data recorders, on the other hand, cannot be.

One of the terrorist's passport was found... please get your facts straight.

I am sure you all heard of the strange stock trading going on preceeding 9/11, do not know if it means anything but it is certainly suspicious. And the owner of the building recengtly took out a larger insurance plane specifically protecting against planes. And I am sure you all know Bush's brother, head of security for WTC stopped working there the day before.I remember reading in newsweek a week or so after 9/11. They printed many eyewitness accounts of explosions going off thoughout the building and an increased presence of government officials in the buildings. This was way before any of this "truther" bullshit. I am certain there are things we are not hearing about.

All of these claims have been thoroughly investigated, and found to be without merit. I won't waste my time beating dead horses. The information is available, please make an effort to find it.

Do you realize how many people you are accusing of being directly involved in the intentional mass murder of thousands of American citizens? These people have names. Do you know what their names are? Don't you think it might be a good idea to at least put the effort into learning the names of these people you are accusing of mass murder before you condemn them?

It's obvious that you really haven't researched the events of 9/11 much beyond watching the "loose change" mockumentary and reading an article in Newsweek. Trust me... you are making yourself look quite foolish. Please do your homework.

[EnwordLips]

I cannot be convinced fires burned so hot they warper steel enough to make the buildings fall if they were not even hot enough to burn a fucking passport. Or that the black boxes were destroyed and a piece of paper was not

[shakespear]

I hate that stupid Zeitgeist movie. It offends me as a historian

[ginaf20697]

I cannot be convinced fires burned so hot they warper steel enough to make the buildings fall if they were not even hot enough to burn a fucking passport. Or that the black boxes were destroyed and a piece of paper was not

So I guess all those reams of paper seen flying out of the building were just part of the cover up.

[Three Hole Puncher]

I cannot be convinced fires burned so hot they warper steel enough to make the buildings fall if they were not even hot enough to burn a fucking passport. Or that the black boxes were destroyed and a piece of paper was not That's your problem... you can't be convinced with facts, logic, or reason.

During any chaotic event, (and the destruction of the WTC towers was certainly that)... bizarre things will occur.

How many times have you heard stories of the sort where a small child is picked up by a tornado, carried hundreds of yards, and deposited without a scratch while the house the child was in was utterly destroyed, and the rest of the family killed?

Do you assume that there was no tornado? That an evil government agency destroyed the house, killed the family, but overlooked the child? Because there is no way that a storm that destroyed an entire house could leave a small child unharmed? Right?

In hugely chaotic situations, bizarre events WILL occur. It'd be more strange and more suspect if they didn't.

[THE FEZ MAN]

I cannot be convinced fires burned so hot they warper steel enough to make the buildings fall if they were not even hot enough to burn a fucking passport. Or that the black boxes were destroyed and a piece of paper was not

ever been to a house fire, car fire or just a kick ass bon fire? i have been to all and even set a few. i have set bon fires that were hot enough to smelt steel and melt glass, yet the phone book that i used to start the fire still had readable pages in it days later, car fires were for the most part the car was melted to the ground yet paint is still on some of the panels and gas is still in the tank, as for the black boxes being destroyed, look up the effects of concussion and compression on sealed containers, hell just look at some of the boxes that have been recovered, for the most part unless the plane went in at a shallow angle they are often destroyed. before you spout off, learn a tad about how things work. EVERY argument ive heard from "truth" idiots i can refute with scientific fact or my own observations of the way materials react.
do i believe that some one in the US government had an idea that an attack like 9/11 could occur? yes.
did the government pull off one of the most complex yet simple terrorist plots in American history. NO but have they used the event to tighten there grip on the american citizens? YES. we are becoming the very police state that the terrorists wanted.

as mentioned earlier akams razor, the simplest answer is usually the correct one.

[EnwordLips]

You can say I am not using facts cause that may be partially true, but I am definitely using logic. How can the fires burn so hot to compromise the steel but not hot enough to burn a passport. This was not a bonfire and a passport is not a phonebook. In fact this fire is much bigger than a bonfire and a passport is much smaller than a phone book.

[UwannaCmyHatAsk]

"holy shit"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2-78bVfPePM

[MatrixOutsider]

I cannot be convinced fires burned so hot they warper steel enough to make the buildings fall if they were not even hot enough to burn a fucking passport. Or that the black boxes were destroyed and a piece of paper was not

Duh, obviously some debris were blown away from the fires and others were vaporized by intense heat and weight.

[silentbob8201]

You can say I am not using facts cause that may be partially true, but I am definitely using logic. How can the fires burn so hot to compromise the steel but not hot enough to burn a passport. This was not a bonfire and a passport is not a phonebook. In fact this fire is much bigger than a bonfire and a passport is much smaller than a phone book.

COULD SOME ONE PLEASE REPOST THAT VIDEO OF A Kid Blowtorching a Steel Bar from youtube?

[jules]

You can say I am not using facts cause that may be partially true, but I am definitely using logic. How can the fires burn so hot to compromise the steel but not hot enough to burn a passport. This was not a bonfire and a passport is not a phonebook. In fact this fire is much bigger than a bonfire and a passport is much smaller than a phone book.

the more you post, the more your arguments fall apart.
problem is guys like you will NEVER see it any other way, or even want to realistically address other theories. the only thing you guys have is internet rumours, and half cocked ideas. have fun with all that crap, because no one of any real substance or importance will ever take you people serious. fast forward fifty years, and you guys will still be saying the same shit, and will still not be taken seriously.

[gleet]

You can say I am not using facts cause that may be partially true, but I am definitely using logic. How can the fires burn so hot to compromise the steel but not hot enough to burn a passport. This was not a bonfire and a passport is not a phonebook. In fact this fire is much bigger than a bonfire and a passport is much smaller than a phone book.

The terrorist was driving the plane, so he was in the front. He went into the building first. Everything else was behind him, including the jet fuel, and was shoving him forward. Chunks of him could have ended up on the far side of the building with his passport in what remained of his pocket. The explosions behind him blew out windows and his passport went out the window hole, intact. This all happened in a second, it wasn't around long enough to get exposed to fire. The pressure wave whisked it out of harm's wave.

[jules]

The explosions were caused by natural gas lines and transformers blowing out, not to mention compression noises and beams falling down shafts. Obviously, the witnesses were not explosive experts; they only described what they thought they heard. As for the controlled demolition, I have already explained why it was not possible. If it is not done correctly, buildings won't collapse at all. However, look at it from a humanistic perspective. Where would you find hundreds of people to agree to work together on a heinous plot without blowing the whistle?

From http://www.loosechangeguide.com/lcg3.html:

People do not understand the work involved in a controlled demolition. I have copied the information below from Controlled Demolition Inc's website. It shows the work involved in their world record (in terms of building height - 439 feet, or 134 meters), demolition of the J.L. Hudson building in Detroit:

Homrich/NASDI's 21 man crew needed three months to investigate the complex and four months to complete preparations for CDI's implosion design. During that period, the lower two basements of the structure were filled with engineered fill and the perimeter basement walls bermed to 1st basement level with soil to support perimeter walls which would surely have failed under soil and hydrostatic loads once the horizontal support of the Hudson's internal structure was removed by the implosion.

Double column rows installed in the structure between vertical construction phases, internal brick shear walls, x-bracing, 70 elevators and 10 stairwells created an extremely stiff frame. Columns

weighing over 500 lb/ft, having up to 7.25 inch thick laminated steel flanges and 6 inch thick webs, defied commercially available shaped charge technology. CDI analyzed each column, determined the actual load it carried and then used cutting torches to scarf-off steel plates in order to use smaller shaped charges to cut the remaining steel. CDI wanted to keep the charges as small as possible to reduce air over pressure that could break windows in adjacent properties.

CDI's 12 person loading crew took twenty-four days to place 4,118 separate charges in 1,100 locations on columns on nine levels of the complex. Over 36,000 ft of detonating cord and 4,512 non-electric delay elements were installed in CDI's implosion initiation system, some to create the 36 primary implosion sequence and another 216 micro-delays to keep down the detonation overpressure from the 2,728 lb of explosives which would be detonated during the demolition.

(Imagine all this stuff in a building that gets hit by a plane with a full load of jet fuel? It all melts or explode out of sequence because of the high heat).

:clap::clap:
very good post sir. but even reading that, they will only hear and see what they want to.

[EnwordLips]

The terrorist was driving the plane, so he was in the front. He went into the building first. Everything else was behind him, including the jet fuel, and was shoving him forward. Chunks of him could have ended up on the far side of the building with his passport in what remained of his pocket. The explosions behind him blew out windows and his passport went out the window hole, intact. This all happened in a second, it wasn't around long enough to get exposed to fire. The pressure wave whisked it out of harm's wave.

It just does not make any sense to me. I am not one of these "truthers" but I do think there is alot of questions that we have only been given half assed answers that are often based in calling the questioners lunatics.

I have read all of popular mechanics shit before. I did not know about what those guys were yelling about during the walkover of fridays show. Is everything they said about the pm people true? Because I believe if that is the case any attempts to refute what the loose changers say because of the integrity of the 2 that started it is dumb. Because if what they said about PM is true their article cannot be taken seriously.

Whats everyones explanation on those damn light poles? I mean how come they were perfectly bent and there was no plane debris around them? Logically I do not see this as making any sense. Not even getting into the rest of the lack of debris or that pentagon workers claimed to have smelld cordite. Or that the government confiscated local businesses security cams that captured the incident.

[mendozathejew]

I remember reading in newsweek a week or so after 9/11. They printed many eyewitness accounts of explosions going off thoughout the building and an increased presence of government officials in the buildings. This was way before any of this "truther" bullshit. I am certain there are things we are not hearing about.

one of the most laughable arguments from the truthers is that the mainstream media refuses to look into it. now we are talking about a group of people who probably hate bush more than anyone else. yet they want to protect him?

evan thomas, michael isakoff at newsweek are unbelievable investigative reporters. these are the guys who snag every piece of info from the white house, everything related to libby and the plame affair.

they didnt just take the governments word for 9/11 and the trail of evidence from the hijackers. they did it themselves. they did the research and followed the trail themselves. and if you think for a second that they couldnt find what these insane truthers have, you are equally insane

[mendozathejew]

Not even getting into the rest of the lack of debris or that pentagon workers claimed to have smelld cordite. Or that the government confiscated local businesses security cams that captured the incident.where are these people that allegedly saw these things? its just internet rhetoric.

you find a whole lot more people who actually saw the plane hit the pentagon. or the passengers on the plane who were talking to their family and describing how they were flying into DC towards the pentagon. thats real

[gleet]

Again, I say: My friend in his high corner office several miles from the Pentagon heard a rumble and looked out the window and saw the fucking plane pass by his building and a few moments later it hit the Pentagon. He saw the plane. The plane. He saw it. You know, the one that hit the Pentagon? Yeah, he saw it right before it hit the Pentagon.

[Three Hole Puncher]

You can say I am not using facts cause that may be partially true, but I am definitely using logic. How can the fires burn so hot to compromise the steel but not hot enough to burn a passport. This was not a bonfire and a passport is not a phonebook. In fact this fire is much bigger than a bonfire and a passport is much smaller than a phone book. So, that's it. You're going to accuse government officials, air traffic controllers, firefighters, police officers, the owner of the WTC, members of the U.S. military, etc... of committing the mass murder of thousand of innocent citizens based upon one passport? And you'll never be convinced otherwise?

There you have it, folks... a frightening glimpse at "truther logic".

[THE FEZ MAN]

bill clinton get his dick sucked buy a fatty, and it throws the country into an up roar, dick nixon tapes him self, ends up resigning, these events occurred amongst less than 10 people, yet hundreds of people are involved with one of the largest conspiracy's in history and there is NO EVIDENCE and NO ONE is talking.

i believe that sonny barger said it best "the only way three men can keep a secrete is if two are dead"

[Absolutely]

I'm one of the most liberal anti-government/ anti-Bush person out there and even I don't believe there was a conspiracy.

For a lot of reasons, but just the basic "There's too many people involved" should put a lot of it to rest. As Jimmy and Anthony have said for hours, people can't keep secrets. Air Traffic Controllers, family members, all the gov't people involved, etc etc.

And the whole why take 50 steps when you can take 1 or 2 steps to accomplish it.

I wanted to strangle those people on Friday, "Well, we're not saying that, just that there are questions that need to be answered"
Then answer Jimmy's simple questions you little bearded man.

[Three Hole Puncher]

Whats everyones explanation on those damn light poles? I mean how come they were perfectly bent and there was no plane debris around them?

Alright... if it wasn't a plane, then exactly how did the light poles get bent? How would a tiny missle cause light poles to be bent in a manner that not even a ginormous plane could accomplish? Did the "guv'mint" send a team of crack light pole benders out to do the job just mere seconds after the Pentagon was hit?

Not even getting into the rest of the lack of debris or that pentagon workers claimed to have smelld cordite.

What lack of debris would that be? The NTSB and the FBI reported no lack of debris at the crash site at the Pentagon. Are claiming that the NTSB and the FBI deliberately lied about the debris found at the Pentagon? Did they knowing perpetrate a cover-up to protect those responsible for committing mass murder on 9/11? What are the names of the NTSB and FBI employees who were involved in this nefarious crime?

Who made the claim that there was a lack of debris?

The smell of cordite is the smell of sulfer. There are many things which give off the smell of sulfer when they burn. Just because you smell sulfer, doesn't mean you're smelling cordite.

Logically I do not see this as making any sense. Or that the government confiscated local businesses security cams that captured the incident.

You don't see any logical reason why government officials would want to get their hands on security cam recordings of the events at the Pentagon on 9/11, huh?

:icon_roll

You stink at logic.

[silentbob8201]

I take it none of these Truthers have ever played the game Jenga before.

[jules]

It just does not make any sense to me. I am not one of these "truthers" but I do think there is alot of questions that we have only been given half assed answers that are often based in calling the questioners lunatics.

I have read all of popular mechanics shit before. I did not know about what those guys were yelling about during the walkover of fridays show. Is everything they said about the pm people true? Because I believe if that is the case any attempts to refute what the loose changers say because of the integrity of the 2 that started it is dumb. Because if what they said about PM is true their article cannot be taken seriously.

Whats everyones explanation on those damn light poles? I mean how come they were perfectly bent and there was no plane debris around them? Logically I do not see this as making any sense. Not even getting into the rest of the lack of debris or that pentagon workers claimed to have smelld cordite. Or that the government confiscated local businesses security cams that captured the incident.

you ARE absolutely one of those "truthers"- stop it dude, dont try coming off like you are coming from some other angle here.
as i said before, the more you post, the worse you look.
post on sir.::hammer:

[Plunkies]

Uuugh, and they call themselves "Truthers" like they're so much better than the rest of us too. They are the only ones that see the truth guys.

Bow to them.

Hey "Truthers." If you don't see why a vast majority of peoploe write your smug bullshit off right from the start, you have a lot of heavy self examining to do again. You come off so fucking full of yourselves I may vomit on my laptop here.

Then when people don't listen they're sheep, or if they tear apart one of your dogshit points they "should do their homework." It's like a religion. You can't counter them because they have faith in the conspiracy.

Like if I questioned one of the millions of lies of religion, I'd get something along the lines of "God works in mysterious ways" or "God closes one door and opens another." Complete horseshit. With these assholes it's just a different mindless mantra. "Do your homework."

Awful, awful people.

Exactly. It's more like creationism. They can never prove their own point, only pick at the logical conclusions that other people have. They've already come to their own conclusion, so they latch on to anything they can use to prove their point and ignore everything else. You can be sitting on a pile of evidence, picking apart every ridiculous comment they make, and they'll still try to tell you that YOU'RE the one that's misinformed. You ask them to prove their own point rather than attacking yours and they've got absolutely nothing. Even if everything about 9/11 is a lie there's still no evidence that actually points to the government doing it. The evidence has to come first, THEN you draw the conclusion from it.

When they've finally exhausted every bit of bullshit they have left, they try to take the moral high ground and attack you personally. The "gatekeepers" are the same as the innately immoral "heathens", the "do your homework" is "I'll pray for you", and the cries of "coward" and "sheep" are empty insults, the equivalent of "see you in hell."

Their entire defense is based on the fact that they have some higher knowledge, that they are somehow privy to information that you aren't. You can't argue with them because you haven't seen the light, and you can't see the light and still disagree with them.


And I love this guy above. He's so clever that it's impossible for him to believe that a passport escaped an inferno but the government orchestrating a conspiracy on an essentially unfeasible scale in plain view of the largest city in America, involving mass executions, switching planes for missiles, simultaneous and perfectly executed demolitions that leave no evidence of themselves, and thousands of people in on the gag with no government connection and no remorse for killing thousands of their fellow countrymen. Yeah, great use of logic there. I'm glad you're on the case.

[THE FEZ MAN]

the average person cant kill a mouse with out feeling guilty about it on some level, yet hundreds of "spooks" can execute 2500 people and keep there mouth shut for 6years......

the tooth fairy is waiting with santa to take you to oz......

i give up, enjoy your fantasy i hope it helps you sleep at night

[Three Hole Puncher]

Great points.

The human angle... The "truthers" haaaaate to deal with it, and they hardly ever even try. They prefer to think of "them"... the people who they believe orchestrated the 9/11 attacks, as some sort of shadowy, faceless, nameless cabal pulling the strings from the shadows. It's like they're living in an episode of the X-Files.

That's not how the world works, you clowns!

The air traffic controllers, the police, the firefighters, the FBI agents... these people have names, they have faces, they have friends, families, bills to pay, etc... they are real people... human beings. They are not robots programmed to do evil.

If you're going to accuse these people of mass murder, at least have the balls to call them out by name... better yet... at least give them the fucking basic courtesy of LEARNING their names.

[nikoloslvy]

http://screwloosechange.xbehome.com/index.php?showtopic=89&st=0&p=25014&#entry25014

[EnwordLips]

So, that's it. You're going to accuse government officials, air traffic controllers, firefighters, police officers, the owner of the WTC, members of the U.S. military, etc... of committing the mass murder of thousand of innocent citizens based upon one passport? And you'll never be convinced otherwise?

There you have it, folks... a frightening glimpse at "truther logic".

I never accused any of those people. I am not a "truther" I just believe that neither me nor any of you know everything that went down on 9/11. I am just commenting on things I have ehard thhat doesnt make any sense to me.

[NorfCal]

I never accused any of those people. I am not a "truther" I just believe that neither me nor any of you know everything that went down on 9/11. I am just commenting on things I have ehard thhat doesnt make any sense to me.

Yes, you are a 'truther' and you have to be one of the dumbest motherfuckers on this board, and that's saying alot.

http://www.forumspile.com/Win-Retard_Prize.jpg

[mendozathejew]

I am just commenting on things I have ehard thhat doesnt make any sense to me.

and youve been given established info that shoots those worries down. yet you press on.

WITNESSSES SAW THE PLANE HIT THE PENTAGON. "Ive heard things that dont make sense to me" is not a suitable response

[mendozathejew]

and you have to be one of the dumbest motherfuckers on this board, and that's saying alot.

hey look everyone its too cool for the room guy.

[Vyce]

and youve been given established info that shoots those worries down. yet you press on.

WITNESSSES SAW THE PLANE HIT THE PENTAGON. "Ive heard things that dont make sense to me" is not a suitable response

Thank you.

I live, literally, about......oh, ten miles (give or take a couple miles) away from the Pentagon. I've lived there since before 9/11. I know the area around there quite well. I'm familiar with what happened on and after that date. So believe me when I say:

A PLANE HIT THE FUCKING PENTAGON ON 9/11/01.

The sad thing is, there are plenty of people out there willing to argue with you about you not knowing shit that you really do know, from *personal experience and observation*.

[South Jersey]

Just to play devil's advocate here, because it's ONE thing in a sea of garbage that makes some sense to me -

Have you ever heard the theory (though disspelled during the nurembourg trials) that Hitler burned down the Reichstag, and then blamed it on the comumunists? That was essentially the final straw to Hitler locking down Germany, and totally selling the people on the idea of war and starting with his "master plan".
Couple that with the passing of the patriot act (which I am %1000000 against, but that's another discussion), then people start drawing strange lines to things. Especially when the leader already wasn't popular.

not saying I agree, just saying that I sort of see where it starts.

Can someone please give me an example of how their lives were affected or altered by the Patriot Act?

[jules]

I never accused any of those people. I am not a "truther" I just believe that neither me nor any of you know everything that went down on 9/11. I am just commenting on things I have ehard thhat doesnt make any sense to me.

you are a "truther" and a fraud, like the rest of your foolish ass friends. whenever a point is made to tear your points up, you dismiss it as shit or just ignore it.
you people are a pathetic bunch of brainwashed asses who havent grown up yet. keep plugging your cause and agenda, and watch as nothing EVER comes from your "facts" or "suspicions".
BOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!:icon_lol:

[WOWmagnet]

People say the "truthers" have no solid proof but from what I hear they seem to have alot more proof than anyone who says it was Osama and his gang of hijackers.
Sources?


I also think the argument that a controlled demolition would be soooo dificult for someone to pull off to be ignorant.
It could not be any harder for the U.S. government to setup a controlled demolition than it would be for middle eastern terrorists to sneak into this country, recieve enough training to fly passenger jet airliners, get on the plane with box cutters, and then take over the plane using just box cutters.
No clue about constuction or demolition, obviously. YOU are ignorant of how demolitions are done.
Wiring the WTC for THAT kind of demolition would take MONTHS and HUNDREDS of demo workers. Not to forget 100's of miles of cable.

You'd NEVER keep all the demolition workers quiet, genius. Not to mention the 50,000 office workers who would notice WAAAAAY more than a little dust here and there. 9/11 would be immensly more difficult for even the US government to pull off than 19 SAVAGES with a few boxcutters :icon_roll

No one said what the SAVAGES did was easy, but they DID it. They trained for YEARS. They pulled it off, you are kidding yourself and being disingenuous.

Altough Loose Change is certainly a very swayed movie I think even if half of it is half is half true, there are some serious questions we will need answered.
Um, "swayed"? Are yuou kidding? It downright LIES. Now, Corey has redacted half of it to try to make it more believable, what's your thinking on that?

No matter what happened on 9/11 I am certain in another 50 years there will be a whole different explanation on it.
:icon_roll Not even bothering.

I mean Osama both claimed responsibility for the attacks and has denied having anything to do with them.

Show us the clip where he denies it! He NEVER denied it. He even laughed (on tape) at how most of the SAVAGES didn't even know they were gonna die. He also said, "...we never expected the towers to come down...".
Was THAT faked? Like all the calls from doomed airline passengers?


All I know for sure is terrorism is not a real threat and 9/11 has made it a real threat in the majority's minds
I can only hope next time one of YOUR family is there when the non existant terrorists attack, douchebag.

[Monstercloud]

Stupid "Truthers" always don't acknowledge someone else's argument, or try to take the bullshit, "I'm going to be humble" stance and say, "I'm not ____" / "I didn't say _____" followed by "I'm just trying to say no one really knows what happened" to try to negate the whole confrontation.

[WOWmagnet]

Can someone please give me an example of how their lives were affected or altered by the Patriot Act?


FACT: not ONE US citizen has been arrested due to the Patriot act.

[jules]

just from what I have read:
the government blows up buildings, blames the terrorists, ties it to the iraq war, and then ties it to patriot act.
unless people are scared, you can't pass the patriot act, etc.

just saying.

YOU MAY HAVE JUST WON SUPER STRETCH OF THE THREAD!!
CONGRATS!!

[Stormrider666]

FACT: not ONE US citizen has been arrested due to the Patriot act.

Wasn't Tommy Chong arrested as result of the application of the Patriot act?

[WOWmagnet]

Wasn't Tommy Chong arrested as result of the application of the Patriot act?

Why don't you Google it post your results here?

[WOWmagnet]

I never accused any of those people. I am not a "truther" I just believe that neither me nor any of you know everything that went down on 9/11. I am just commenting on things I have ehard thhat doesnt make any sense to me.

You said:

"All I know for sure is terrorism is not a real threat",

did you not?

"Nuff said.

[R.BuddDwyer]

I'm gonna PISTOL WHIP the next person that says "TRUTHER"

[Stormrider666]

Why don't you Google it post your results here?

I just checked it out on Google and nothing was mentioned about the Patriot Act. I was mistaken, I wasn't asking the question trying to be a dick, it was something that I heard, on Bill Maher's show. I think how the rumor may have gotten started, was that he was sentenced on 9-11-2003. He still got a raw deal, in my opinion.

[R.BuddDwyer]

Drug laws have sucked and been unfair for decades.

Also: I'm seriously annoyed by the word "truther"; simply in its format. Wouldn't it mean that these people are "truthing" like truth is a verb? Fucking idiots. Wouldn't it be like "truthier" like in Strawbridge and Clothier?

[WOWmagnet]

I'm gonna PISTOL WHIP the next person that says "TRUTHER"



:icon_redf















:icon_redf














truther (delusional asshole)

[SwimConnerSwim]

I wonder if these "truther-children" have been planning their versions of ATOM's. One of the last Bill Mahr shows before the writers strike was interupted by a bunch of these faggots. Now the boys tangled with them. This is the real conspiracy at hand.

[hudsonharden]

I find that it's best to just ignore these types of people. O&A got in some great radio talking to them, but in general it's not worth wasting your time trying to reason with these people. They have a mental illness. They refuse to see facts for what they are and cling to their fabricated versions of reality. I grew of in a very liberal community and have talked to a lot of these t**thers, and it's no different from talking to someone who denies that evolution exists. They have a few fact-ish statements to fall back on and disregard any type of logic presented to them. To me, this type of reasoning has to come from some sort of psychological or personality disorder where these people's egos are so fragile that anyone who discredits their convictions is wrong. You have nothing to gain interacting with these people on that level, other than perhaps fodder for a radio show.

[NorfCal]

I think it's all tied to this-

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v631/phygs/pirateswarminglq1.gif

[South Jersey]

I just checked it out on Google and nothing was mentioned about the Patriot Act. I was mistaken, I wasn't asking the question trying to be a dick, it was something that I heard, on Bill Maher's show. I think how the rumor may have gotten started, was that he was sentenced on 9-11-2003. He still got a raw deal, in my opinion.

I checked on it too and the conclusion I came to is that Tommy Chong must have had the WORST LAWYER EVER! Holy shit Lionel Hutz could've gotten him a lighter sentence.

[THE FEZ MAN]

I checked on it too and the conclusion I came to is that Tommy Chong must have had the WORST LAWYER EVER! Holy shit Lionel Hutz could've gotten him a lighter sentence.
he took the fall for his kid, they were makeing an example of him. one more thing to hate the bush white house for

[MatrixOutsider]

It just does not make any sense to me. I am not one of these "truthers" but I do think there is alot of questions that we have only been given half assed answers that are often based in calling the questioners lunatics.

I have read all of popular mechanics shit before. I did not know about what those guys were yelling about during the walkover of fridays show. Is everything they said about the pm people true? Because I believe if that is the case any attempts to refute what the loose changers say because of the integrity of the 2 that started it is dumb. Because if what they said about PM is true their article cannot be taken seriously.

Whats everyones explanation on those damn light poles? I mean how come they were perfectly bent and there was no plane debris around them? Logically I do not see this as making any sense. Not even getting into the rest of the lack of debris or that pentagon workers claimed to have smelld cordite. Or that the government confiscated local businesses security cams that captured the incident.

Your logic is flawed because you refuse to listen to the experts. I don't want to sound like Mr. Spock but logic dictates that when one is uncertain or does not possess relevant knowledge, then one should defer to experts. Those college asswipes are not experts. They also cherry picked the pictures that supported their arguments, while ignoring the ones that showed debris. Also, there is a list of hundreds of witnesses who saw a plane (not a missile) crash into the pentagon. You really need to read this site: http://www.loosechangeguide.com/LooseChangeGuide.html

[South Jersey]

he took the fall for his kid, they were makeing an example of him. one more thing to hate the bush white house for

So you're telling me that when "The Bush White house" was up to it's asshole with the non-existent WMD's their priority was to nail Tommy Chong? From what I've read so far, Tommy all but dared U.S. Attorney Mary Beth Buchanan to prosecute him. He knew what he was doing was illegal and that Mormon cunt went to town on his ass.

Stop it with the (insert Bush conspiracy here) crap, you sound like a Howie fan.

[BullsLawDan]

See, its times like this that I, as a "truther", am fucking embarassed by it.

Sir, if you believe in any explanation for what happened other than "19 towelheaded sand-n*ggers hijacked planes and crashed them into buildings," no matter how nice you try to be about it, you are fucking clown shoes.

Yes, I have alot of questions about 9/11 that dont jive with the official story and dont make sense at all, ie, the lack of medical and financial support for the rescue workers who are dying of diseases caused by the air they were told was clean to breath by the EPA 2 days after 9/11. That makes no sense to me. To generalize, I have questions about not only what happened on 9/11, but what happened afterword that reeks of corruption.

There are thousands of Hurricane Katrina victims who still live in FEMA trailers 2.5 years later... Are you seriously implying that the government is usually GOOD at this kind of stuff? The fact that people weren't taken care of after the fact is par for the course.

With that said, yes, I would like to see a new, complete, independent investigation into all facets of the events leading up to, itself and after,
There have been several. But you'll keep asking for more and more until one says the pre-confirmed answer you already have in your head.

It's called the "confirmation engine". Go to a good skeptics' website and research it.

What these people (like the ones during the walkover) are doing is misrepresenting a point of view and being pompous, pretentious children about it.

Which is somehow preferable to being an ignorant yet polite douchebag?

:rolleyes:

It doesn't matter how "reasonable" you are about it. Bullshit is bullshit.

Can someone please give me an example of how their lives were affected or altered by the Patriot Act?

Incidentally, I can give you several examples.

FACT: not ONE US citizen has been arrested due to the Patriot act.

That's a red herring because the PATRIOT Act is not criminal law - no one will ever be arrested "due to" it because it doesn't provide for arrest offenses. It does, however, give law enforcement powerful and in many cases unconstitutional authority to effectuate arrests.



Sidenote: Look at me, you stupid "truthers"... I am the biggest government-hating dick you'll ever meet. I'm libertarian, borderline anarchist and would be among the first to join an armed rebellion against this clusterfuck of big brother we call government. But even I can't stomach your bullshit. The people that don't believe your crap aren't "sheeple", they're "connected to reality."

[THE FEZ MAN]

So you're telling me that when "The Bush White house" was up to it's asshole with the non-existent WMD's their priority was to nail Tommy Chong? From what I've read so far, Tommy all but dared U.S. Attorney Mary Beth Buchanan to prosecute him. He knew what he was doing was illegal and that Mormon cunt went to town on his ass.

Stop it with the (insert Bush conspiracy here) crap, you sound like a Howie fan.


as has been brought up time and time again thew out this thread, knowing people that were directly affected buy an event has a tendency to sway ones opinion on a subject. not to mention that i didn't vote for bush, am not a fan of his policy's or his appointments. sorry if i sound like a "howie" fan but fuck bush, fuck his wars, and fuck his supporters. the prosecution of chong was a giant FU to the clinton white house, there drug policy's, and the passing of act 215 in California, one more way for them to stretch there legs and one more try to divert attention away from there illegal war and snipe hunt for WMD's. its not a conspiracy in any way, shit like that is just business as usual for a totalitarian regime looking for a way to make more people criminals

[Got One?]

.08%!!!! that's what makes the difference!!!!

shitheads.

[Maldoff]

as has been brought up time and time again thew out this thread, knowing people that were directly affected buy an event has a tendency to sway ones opinion on a subject. not to mention that i didn't vote for bush, am not a fan of his policy's or his appointments. sorry if i sound like a "howie" fan but fuck bush, fuck his wars, and fuck his supporters. the prosecution of chong was a giant FU to the clinton white house, there drug policy's, and the passing of act 215 in California, one more way for them to stretch there legs and one more try to divert attention away from there illegal war and snipe hunt for WMD's. its not a conspiracy in any way, shit like that is just business as usual for a totalitarian regime looking for a way to make more people criminals

2 points.

Iraq HAD wmd. Iraq was in a position to make WMD as soon as the US wasn't on it. Mustard Gas artillery was found. Lots of it. Old...ok. Still WMD, not declared.

Point 2. MOST conspiracy dickheads are dickheads because they oppose Bush.

[dirtydunky]

.08%!!!! that's what makes the difference!!!!

shitheads.

i dont know why the phone calls are even an issue
its well documented that many of the calls were placed on seat back GTE Airphones
i dont think any of these 911 "truthers" have flown in the last 15 years
stupid fucks

airphone chance of getting a signal - id say about 98%

[livebackwards]

2 points.

Iraq HAD wmd. Iraq was in a position to make WMD as soon as the US wasn't on it. Mustard Gas artillery was found. Lots of it. Old...ok. Still WMD, not declared.

Point 2. MOST conspiracy dickheads are dickheads because they oppose Bush.

1. Mustard gas isn't a WMD. Yes, it can kill a lot of people, but so can Tomahawk missiles and chain guns. We went in there looking for WMD's i.e. nuclear or biological weapons. We didn't find them. BECAUSE...

2. ...Bush Sr. destroyed most of Saddam's WMD's during Gulf War 1 and Clinton, who everyone seems to remember as a cowering, never-shoot-first pansy, mopped up the rest when he bombed Iraq in 1998. Operation Desert Fox, remember? People criticized Clinton because it happened right before he was going to be impeached; we heard a lot of "wag the dog" stuff back then. Seems sort of trite now.

3. I certainly hope opposing Bush doesn't make me a dickhead, because I certainly oppose the bejeezus out of him.

[mendozathejew]

Clinton, who everyone seems to remember as a cowering, never-shoot-first pansy, mopped up the rest when he bombed Iraq in 1998. Operation Desert Fox, remember? People criticized Clinton because it happened right before he was going to be impeached; we heard a lot of "wag the dog" stuff back then. Seems sort of trite now.

hardly. that was barely an effort at all to curtain a danger, while a much more serious danger was developing in Afghanistan and Clinton did NOTHING except blow up an asprin factory.

thousands were going through bin ladens training camps, we had already been attacked several times by them........but blowing up a few Iraqi buildings, in retrospect, feels significant to you?

[Kool Aid]

Yea, I just wish they would admit that we have never been to the moon...I am glad they are still keeping that whole "space" hoax alive to this day, I live by where they park the shuttle when they supposedly go into space and have seen it when they say they are in outer space...

[Vyce]

Incidentally, I can give you several examples.


Then do it.

Give me at least ten. No, I'll cut that in half. Five.

And I don't want to see any Muslims, or Arabs, included in the list. Because, honestly, given the nature of our enemies, those people are, unfortunately, just going to be on the shit list, up until the point when their brethren cut the bullshit with that death cult of a religion of theirs.

I want it to be "ordinary Americans" who you have proof of persecution / discrimination as a direct result of the Patriot Act. And I want it to be something substantive, not "they looked through so-and-so's library records".

[Plunkies]

Then do it.

Give me at least ten. No, I'll cut that in half. Five.

And I don't want to see any Muslims, or Arabs, included in the list. Because, honestly, given the nature of our enemies, those people are, unfortunately, just going to be on the shit list, up until the point when their brethren cut the bullshit with that death cult of a religion of theirs.

I want it to be "ordinary Americans" who you have proof of persecution / discrimination as a direct result of the Patriot Act. And I want it to be something substantive, not "they looked through so-and-so's library records".

I find it hard to believe that not a single search warrant that was previously impossible to obtain without the Patriot Act was used on an American.

As for the list, I can't name five but here's one....http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brandon_Mayfield

For a time, the Patriot Act allowed for agents to undertake "sneak and peek" searches.[163] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patriot_act#_note-Section213) ..........In 2004, FBI agents used this provision to search and secretly examine the home of Brandon Mayfield (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brandon_Mayfield), who was wrongfully jailed for two weeks on suspicion of involvement in the Madrid train bombings (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madrid_train_bombings). Whilst the U.S. Government publicly apologised to Mr. Mayfield and his family[131] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patriot_act#_note-USGovtApology) Mr. Mayfield took it further through the courts. On September 26 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/September_26), 2007 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007), judge Ann Aiken found the law was, in fact, unconstitutional as the search was an unreasonable imposition on Mr. Mayfield and thus violated the Fourth Amendment.[132] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patriot_act#_note-SneakAndPeakStruckDownWired)[133] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patriot_act#_note-SneakAndPeakStruckDownNYT)

[unklewilly]

I was having fun with them for a while. I was irritating them on youtube then I got tired of all their dumb rants at me so I said I was taking down all their screen names and turning them over to my friend who works for an unnamed government agency. I said we cant let the truth be known or this country would fall. I said beware of any white vans parked outside their house tonight and just let it be known, the government is always watching you....they stopped talking to me for some reason after that. Have some fun, go to youtube and see what idiots they are. Makes great fun if you are taking a huge shit and have nothing to do for a while.

[unklewilly]

what I love above all this is just 1 lil thing...


Does anyone know the number of people it would take to bring down the towers? To basically demolish what 7 buildings? Plant enough explosives and tear out critical supports to accomplish such a feat?? Then since it wasnt terrorists, get someone to fly the planes, either manned or unmanned into them. Now since it wasnt an airplane but a missle that hit the Pentagon, who do they get to push that button?? Its not just 1 guy behind a keyboard somewhere. It would take hundreds of people to get all this to actually work and no one talks. NOT A SINGLE FUCKING PERSON IS OUT YELLING THEY WERE INVOLVED IN THIS PLAN TO DESTROY OURSELVES???? Did the government just kill all involved and now its only maybe a handfull who vow to take that secret to the grave? Just fucking stop with the fucking conspiracys already...name your kids Muhammed so they get killed and then whatever stupidity you possess dies with you and not spread through your demon seed.

[ABoringLawyer]

Exactly. It's more like creationism. They can never prove their own point, only pick at the logical conclusions that other people have. They've already come to their own conclusion, so they latch on to anything they can use to prove their point and ignore everything else. You can be sitting on a pile of evidence, picking apart every ridiculous comment they make, and they'll still try to tell you that YOU'RE the one that's misinformed. You ask them to prove their own point rather than attacking yours and they've got absolutely nothing. Even if everything about 9/11 is a lie there's still no evidence that actually points to the government doing it. The evidence has to come first, THEN you draw the conclusion from it.

When they've finally exhausted every bit of bullshit they have left, they try to take the moral high ground and attack you personally. The "gatekeepers" are the same as the innately immoral "heathens", the "do your homework" is "I'll pray for you", and the cries of "coward" and "sheep" are empty insults, the equivalent of "see you in hell."

Their entire defense is based on the fact that they have some higher knowledge, that they are somehow privy to information that you aren't. You can't argue with them because you haven't seen the light, and you can't see the light and still disagree with them.


And I love this guy above. He's so clever that it's impossible for him to believe that a passport escaped an inferno but the government orchestrating a conspiracy on an essentially unfeasible scale in plain view of the largest city in America, involving mass executions, switching planes for missiles, simultaneous and perfectly executed demolitions that leave no evidence of themselves, and thousands of people in on the gag with no government connection and no remorse for killing thousands of their fellow countrymen. Yeah, great use of logic there. I'm glad you're on the case.


:clap::clap::clap:
I was thinking the exact same thing when I caught the replay this weekend. Anyone who spends any significant amount of time around a creationist or fanatically religious person will recognize the "logic" employed by the stupid "truthers". The "truthers" are religious about the conviction in their beliefs, and they steadfastly refuse to acknowledge any weakness in their arguments. Not one of them will examine the evidence as a whole and tell you, despite the flaws, why the evidence of a government conspiracy is more convincing than the official version of events. If they were actually interested in persuing "truth", then there would be absolutely no need to produce slanted and biased pieces of shit like loose change that conveniently ignore evidence that does not allign with their view of a conspiracy.

Do any of the truthers recognize the irony of employing the very tactics in trying to prove their point--ignoring evidence and failing to account for the practical difficulties of their version--that they accuse the government of using? I remember the first time I encountered someone who claimed that 9/11 was a government conspiracy. At that time, it was limited to the penagon, and one of the key points was that there were not any witness accounts of the plane hitting the pentagon readily available on the internet. Of course, there were pleaty of new stories readily available to those not too lazy to use a database such as LexisNexis, but the reason there were not websites devoted to first hand accounts of the pentagon is that no one thought people would be so ascinine as to claim it never happened. The most infuriating thing about the "truthers" is the fucking condescending attitude they have that anyone who disagrees with them is a "sheep" or a "coward" who needs to "do their homework". What a load of shit. If they were actually interested in truth, they would examine why people disagreed with their point of view after looking at the big picture, and they would try to present their story in a forthright manner.

Government is full of morons, morons with political aspirations. To think of how many people would have to be involved in the conspiracy and cover-up, and to believe that not one person--not one--would come forward to blow the whistle on the conspiracy, whether for personal gain or some other reason, is beyond retarded.

[WOWmagnet]

I find it hard to believe that not a single search warrant that was previously impossible to obtain without the Patriot Act was used on an American.

As for the list, I can't name five but here's one....http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brandon_Mayfield

For a time, the Patriot Act allowed for agents to undertake "sneak and peek" searches.[163] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patriot_act#_note-Section213) ..........In 2004, FBI agents used this provision to search and secretly examine the home of Brandon Mayfield (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brandon_Mayfield), who was wrongfully jailed for two weeks on suspicion of involvement in the Madrid train bombings (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madrid_train_bombings). Whilst the U.S. Government publicly apologised to Mr. Mayfield and his family[131] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patriot_act#_note-USGovtApology) Mr. Mayfield took it further through the courts. On September 26 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/September_26), 2007 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007), judge Ann Aiken found the law was, in fact, unconstitutional as the search was an unreasonable imposition on Mr. Mayfield and thus violated the Fourth Amendment.[132] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patriot_act#_note-SneakAndPeakStruckDownWired)[133] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patriot_act#_note-SneakAndPeakStruckDownNYT)


Again, no US citizen has been arrested due to the Patriot act.

Funny how "truthers" and other knee-jerkers just repeat "patriot act, maaaaaan" all day long with NO facts to support it.

Oh, and if you're gonna mention wiretaps, it's for tapping suspected terrorists calling outside the country, jackasses. No one cares about you and your pothead friends talking about bongs.

[WooHoo_guy]

Thought I would add more fuel to fire and give the truthers a transcript of a call to a symtex complaint line -

male (mumbled) "Well fuck that, I wanna blow shit up god dammit"

"Hi, this is the cia, and we got two buildings to take down, some 600 tons of ceement between the two. We got rebar, a little plump, and steel bars."

"I cant take all that down with a dinky 12ounce roll of explosives"

..............

What say you now doubters, eh!!!

:rolleyes:

[nataskaos]

That's a red herring because the PATRIOT Act is not criminal law - no one will ever be arrested "due to" it because it doesn't provide for arrest offenses. It does, however, give law enforcement powerful and in many cases unconstitutional authority to effectuate arrests.



Sidenote: Look at me, you stupid "truthers"... I am the biggest government-hating dick you'll ever meet. I'm libertarian, borderline anarchist and would be among the first to join an armed rebellion against this clusterfuck of big brother we call government. But even I can't stomach your bullshit. The people that don't believe your crap aren't "sheeple", they're "connected to reality."


post of the thread.
close this bitch, because nothing hits the truth harder.

[Vyce]

I find it hard to believe that not a single search warrant that was previously impossible to obtain without the Patriot Act was used on an American.

As for the list, I can't name five but here's one....http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brandon_Mayfield

For a time, the Patriot Act allowed for agents to undertake "sneak and peek" searches.[163] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patriot_act#_note-Section213) ..........In 2004, FBI agents used this provision to search and secretly examine the home of Brandon Mayfield (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brandon_Mayfield), who was wrongfully jailed for two weeks on suspicion of involvement in the Madrid train bombings (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madrid_train_bombings). Whilst the U.S. Government publicly apologised to Mr. Mayfield and his family[131] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patriot_act#_note-USGovtApology) Mr. Mayfield took it further through the courts. On September 26 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/September_26), 2007 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007), judge Ann Aiken found the law was, in fact, unconstitutional as the search was an unreasonable imposition on Mr. Mayfield and thus violated the Fourth Amendment.[132] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patriot_act#_note-SneakAndPeakStruckDownWired)[133] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patriot_act#_note-SneakAndPeakStruckDownNYT)

*sigh*

Alright, from the wiki article you linked:

Mayfield was born in Coos Bay, Oregon, but grew up in Halstead, Kansas. He served in the US Army Reserve from 1985 to 1989; he later served as an officer with the Army in Bitburg, Germany from 1992 to 1994. He met his wife Mona, an Egyptian national and the daughter of a college professor, on a blind date in 1987, and converted to Islam following his marriage to her shortly afterwards. While he was a regular worshiper at the Beaverton mosque, his colleagues were unaware of his religious beliefs. The imam of the mosque has described Mayfield as "very patriotic".

He studied law at Washburn University and Lewis and Clark College, receiving his law degree from Washburn in 1999, and practicing family law in Newport, before moving to the Portland area. Mayfield performed work for the Modest Means Program of the Oregon State Bar, which matches attorneys who are willing to work at reduced rates with low-income clients. In 2003 he offered legal aid to Jeffrey Leon Battle, one of the Portland Seven, a group of people that was convicted of trying to travel to Afghanistan to help the Taliban. Battle at the time was involved in a child custody case.

I asked for five Americans who'd somehow had their right seriously deprived because of the Patriot Act.

I specifically stated that I wanted it to be non-Muslims or non-Arabs.

The one specific example you provided happens 1) to be a Muslim, and 2) happens to be a Muslim who was linked - even if just as legal representation - to an individual who was convicted of attempting to join the Taliban, a group of Muslim extremist zealots with close ties to Al-Qaeda.

I'll go out of the way and just assume, for your sake, that this guy got a raw deal. I'll go ahead and stipulate to that fact.

But really, c'mon. Are any of us supposed to be surprised that a Muslim - let alone a Muslim with ties to another Muslim convicted of trying to join what amounts to a terrorist group - is singled out and exposed to our criminal and/or intelligence system? This gentleman is really far from the perfect poster boy for any anti-Patriot Act argument.

Despite all of the tip-toeing that even the Bush administration has done with regards to the war on terror, what we are engaged in, if people want to get honest, is a war against Islamic extremism. This is why I didn't want Muslims provided as examples. Because post 9/11, Muslims are pretty much on our fucko list. Yes, even American Muslims, because it's not as if there aren't plenty of them who haven't provided aid and comfort to our enemies abroad (CAIR, for example?).

[Thelateshowkid]

I'm not sure if its already been said, but these people make shit up for their arguments. The bearded little boy said that the guy who wrote the Popular Mechanics article, Benjamin Chertoff, was the nephew of Michael Chertoff, head of homeland security. In reality, the guy is a legitimate writer for the magazine, and he has stated many times, in defense of this claim, that he has no relation to Michael, and just that Chertoff is a popular Belorussian name. This makes me think that they're making a bunch of other facts up as well, and no one's gonna stop them because they aren't in the mainstream. But when some normal guy watches these videos, and doesn't do any research for himself, he's gonna be inclined to believe them.

[nikoloslvy]

ty rss fairy.
http://www.foundrymusic.com/media/displaymedia.cfm/id/16704/page/show_video_number_16704.html

[SOS]

Opie and Anthony vs. 9/11 Conspiracy Theorists - Part 1 (http://www.foundrymusic.com/opieanthony/displaymedia.cfm/id/16704/)
Opie and Anthony vs. 9/11 Conspiracy Theorists - Part 2 (http://www.foundrymusic.com/opieanthony/displaymedia.cfm/id/16703/)
Opie and Anthony vs. 9/11 Conspiracy Theorists - Part 3 (http://www.foundrymusic.com/opieanthony/displaymedia.cfm/id/16702/)

[Plunkies]

Again, no US citizen has been arrested due to the Patriot act.

Funny how "truthers" and other knee-jerkers just repeat "patriot act, maaaaaan" all day long with NO facts to support it.

Oh, and if you're gonna mention wiretaps, it's for tapping suspected terrorists calling outside the country, jackasses. No one cares about you and your pothead friends talking about bongs.

Holy shit dude, settle down. I wasn't even arguing with you. I just copy/pasted some shit from wikipedia. And don't call me a truther you fucking gatekeeper. :icon_roll

Wow, never seen anyone so happy to give the government power to get that warm fuzzy feeling of safety. Oh well, who needs rights/freedom when we have protection from terr-ists and smoking and naughty words.


I asked for five Americans who'd somehow had their right seriously deprived because of the Patriot Act.

I specifically stated that I wanted it to be non-Muslims or non-Arabs.

The one specific example you provided happens 1) to be a Muslim, and 2) happens to be a Muslim who was linked - even if just as legal representation - to an individual who was convicted of attempting to join the Taliban, a group of Muslim extremist zealots with close ties to Al-Qaeda.

I'll go out of the way and just assume, for your sake, that this guy got a raw deal. I'll go ahead and stipulate to that fact.

But really, c'mon. Are any of us supposed to be surprised that a Muslim - let alone a Muslim with ties to another Muslim convicted of trying to join what amounts to a terrorist group - is singled out and exposed to our criminal and/or intelligence system? This gentleman is really far from the perfect poster boy for any anti-Patriot Act argument.

Despite all of the tip-toeing that even the Bush administration has done with regards to the war on terror, what we are engaged in, if people want to get honest, is a war against Islamic extremism. This is why I didn't want Muslims provided as examples. Because post 9/11, Muslims are pretty much on our fucko list. Yes, even American Muslims, because it's not as if there aren't plenty of them who haven't provided aid and comfort to our enemies abroad (CAIR, for example?).


Ugh. I don't give a shit about that Muslim cunt. The only part I thought was interesting is that it was found unconstitutional. I haven't been paying attention to the little patriot act subplot going on in this thread so I just assumed that was the issue in the first place.

And since I haven't been paying attention, I honestly have no idea what point you've been trying to make. You can't even fucking arrest someone with the Patriot act anyway. At best you could try to find people who were served with warrants only obtainable through the Patriot Act and even that is a fucking ridiculous request.

All I know is if you give the government power they WILL use it. If there's anything in the Patriot Act that allows them to use it on non-terrorist suspects they HAVE fucking used that shit. If you think otherwise you're the worst kind of rube there is.

[Vyce]

Ugh. I don't give a shit about that Muslim cunt. The only part I thought was interesting is that it was found unconstitutional. I haven't been paying attention to the little patriot act subplot going on in this thread so I just assumed that was the issue in the first place.

And since I haven't been paying attention, I honestly have no idea what point you've been trying to make. You can't even fucking arrest someone with the Patriot act anyway. At best you could try to find people who were served with warrants only obtainable through the Patriot Act and even that is a fucking ridiculous request.

All I know is if you give the government power they WILL use it. If there's anything in the Patriot Act that allows them to use it on non-terrorist suspects they HAVE fucking used that shit. If you think otherwise you're the worst kind of rube there is.

My point is that it's fairly apparent, IMO, that most people's complaints about or opposition to the Patriot Act is CONCEPTUAL, rather than really based upon substantive examples of how it's been used to violate and otherwise infringe upon the rights of "ordinary Americans". People are against the IDEA of the Patriot Act. Which is fine and good, because it is a law which places limits upon our freedom, and thus is worthy of being questioned.

But, it has been an effective tool in the war on terror, and there are plenty of people who want it repealed, not just based upon a conceptual dislike of it, but rather because they make claims about how it's been used to violate the rights of Americans left and right. Some of the more rabid individuals who claim this make it seem almost like a shadowy conspiracy, like people (i.e. "ordinary Americans") are being dragged away in the middle of the night to languish in some secret CIA prison, all due to that diabolical Patriot Act of course. But invariably they don't have the facts to back that all up. If the Patriot Act really was this massive document that is being used daily to strip us of all of our constitutional rights (and that is the sort of rhetoric some people make regarding it), you'd think it'd be ridiculously easy to come up with dozens of examples of individuals who've been hauled off to the gulag, or otherwise oppressed, because of it. Instead, you get examples like the one presented earlier in this thread, about a guy who was taken into custody, but oh yeah, forgot to mention he's a Muslim with ties to another Muslim who just happened to get convicted for trying to join a terror group.

I'm not really claiming that the Patriot Act is all smiles and puppy dogs, it's a serious piece of legislation which no one should treat lightly, but if there's one thing I'm beyond sick of in modern day political discourse, it's the fucking ridiculous amounts of hyperbole that people go into. I've said before, I fucking HATE hyperbole. People can't just go, "I don't like the Patriot Act, because I think it overreaches and I'm concerned at how it MAY be used to limit my constitutional rights in the future." They have to morph it into "OMG, don't you realize, we're living in a fascist police state thanks to McBUSHITLERBURTON and his Patriot Act! They're gonna send jack-booted thugs in brownshirts for you at any moment!" Too many people, in my perception, are unwilling to reach a common ground on these issues, which is immensely frustrating to me givne the seriousness of the issues.

[Three Hole Puncher]

My point is that it's fairly apparent, IMO, that most people's complaints about or opposition to the Patriot Act is CONCEPTUAL, rather than really based upon substantive examples of how it's been used to violate and otherwise infringe upon the rights of "ordinary Americans". People are against the IDEA of the Patriot Act. Which is fine and good, because it is a law which places limits upon our freedom, and thus is worthy of being questioned.

But, it has been an effective tool in the war on terror, and there are plenty of people who want it repealed, not just based upon a conceptual dislike of it, but rather because they make claims about how it's been used to violate the rights of Americans left and right. Some of the more rabid individuals who claim this make it seem almost like a shadowy conspiracy, like people (i.e. "ordinary Americans") are being dragged away in the middle of the night to languish in some secret CIA prison, all due to that diabolical Patriot Act of course. But invariably they don't have the facts to back that all up. If the Patriot Act really was this massive document that is being used daily to strip us of all of our constitutional rights (and that is the sort of rhetoric some people make regarding it), you'd think it'd be ridiculously easy to come up with dozens of examples of individuals who've been hauled off to the gulag, or otherwise oppressed, because of it. Instead, you get examples like the one presented earlier in this thread, about a guy who was taken into custody, but oh yeah, forgot to mention he's a Muslim with ties to another Muslim who just happened to get convicted for trying to join a terror group.

I'm not really claiming that the Patriot Act is all smiles and puppy dogs, it's a serious piece of legislation which no one should treat lightly, but if there's one thing I'm beyond sick of in modern day political discourse, it's the fucking ridiculous amounts of hyperbole that people go into. I've said before, I fucking HATE hyperbole. People can't just go, "I don't like the Patriot Act, because I think it overreaches and I'm concerned at how it MAY be used to limit my constitutional rights in the future." They have to morph it into "OMG, don't you realize, we're living in a fascist police state thanks to McBUSHITLERBURTON and his Patriot Act! They're gonna send jack-booted thugs in brownshirts for you at any moment!" Too many people, in my perception, are unwilling to reach a common ground on these issues, which is immensely frustrating to me givne the seriousness of the issues. When they came for Plunkies, I did nothing. When they came for Vyce, I said nothing. When they came for Fleaman, I loffed and loffed.

[dirtydunky]

taken from the links to these ppls profiles lol
http://9-11.meetup.com/321/calendar/6816360/?gj=sj29
this has not been edited except for the screencaps

http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/1268/exchange1op3.jpg

[WOWmagnet]

Holy shit dude, settle down. I wasn't even arguing with you. I just copy/pasted some shit from wikipedia. And don't call me a truther you fucking gatekeeper. :icon_roll

Wow, never seen anyone so happy to give the government power to get that warm fuzzy feeling of safety. Oh well, who needs rights/freedom when we have protection from terr-ists and smoking and naughty words.




Ugh. I don't give a shit about that Muslim cunt. The only part I thought was interesting is that it was found unconstitutional. I haven't been paying attention to the little patriot act subplot going on in this thread so I just assumed that was the issue in the first place.

And since I haven't been paying attention, I honestly have no idea what point you've been trying to make. You can't even fucking arrest someone with the Patriot act anyway. At best you could try to find people who were served with warrants only obtainable through the Patriot Act and even that is a fucking ridiculous request.

All I know is if you give the government power they WILL use it. If there's anything in the Patriot Act that allows them to use it on non-terrorist suspects they HAVE fucking used that shit. If you think otherwise you're the worst kind of rube there is.

Not you.....:icon_roll

[WOWmagnet]

taken from the links to these ppls profiles lol
http://9-11.meetup.com/321/calendar/6816360/?gj=sj29
this has not been edited except for the screencaps

http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/1268/exchange1op3.jpg



Those are the TRUTHERS?

Nice lil' white hat, Bearded Angry Young Man. :icon_roll

And dig the subversive "THOGUHT CRIMINAL" t-shirt, maaaaaaaan!

Are they actually arguing about what happened with ONA on the street and calling it "the operation"?

Perhaps Po and Kenny or Keith thr Cop need to be alerted. ;)

Awwwwww, they sure showed their mommies.

[Plunkies]

My point is that it's fairly apparent, IMO, that most people's complaints about or opposition to the Patriot Act is CONCEPTUAL, rather than really based upon substantive examples of how it's been used to violate and otherwise infringe upon the rights of "ordinary Americans". People are against the IDEA of the Patriot Act. Which is fine and good, because it is a law which places limits upon our freedom, and thus is worthy of being questioned.

But, it has been an effective tool in the war on terror, and there are plenty of people who want it repealed, not just based upon a conceptual dislike of it, but rather because they make claims about how it's been used to violate the rights of Americans left and right. Some of the more rabid individuals who claim this make it seem almost like a shadowy conspiracy, like people (i.e. "ordinary Americans") are being dragged away in the middle of the night to languish in some secret CIA prison, all due to that diabolical Patriot Act of course. But invariably they don't have the facts to back that all up. If the Patriot Act really was this massive document that is being used daily to strip us of all of our constitutional rights (and that is the sort of rhetoric some people make regarding it), you'd think it'd be ridiculously easy to come up with dozens of examples of individuals who've been hauled off to the gulag, or otherwise oppressed, because of it. Instead, you get examples like the one presented earlier in this thread, about a guy who was taken into custody, but oh yeah, forgot to mention he's a Muslim with ties to another Muslim who just happened to get convicted for trying to join a terror group.

I'm not really claiming that the Patriot Act is all smiles and puppy dogs, it's a serious piece of legislation which no one should treat lightly, but if there's one thing I'm beyond sick of in modern day political discourse, it's the fucking ridiculous amounts of hyperbole that people go into. I've said before, I fucking HATE hyperbole. People can't just go, "I don't like the Patriot Act, because I think it overreaches and I'm concerned at how it MAY be used to limit my constitutional rights in the future." They have to morph it into "OMG, don't you realize, we're living in a fascist police state thanks to McBUSHITLERBURTON and his Patriot Act! They're gonna send jack-booted thugs in brownshirts for you at any moment!" Too many people, in my perception, are unwilling to reach a common ground on these issues, which is immensely frustrating to me givne the seriousness of the issues.

OOOOOooooOOOoooohhhhhhHhhhhHhhh I didn't realize OooooooooooooHHhhhhHHHhhhhh.

So both extreme sides are asses. Can't disagree with that.

Not you.....:icon_roll

Then don't quote me. :icon_roll:icon_roll:icon_roll:icon_roll:icon_roll

[NIB1666]

I love arguing with those morons on paltalk. what a bunch of ignorant douche bags.

[NIB1666]

Opie and Anthony vs. 9/11 Conspiracy Theorists - Part 1 (http://www.foundrymusic.com/opieanthony/displaymedia.cfm/id/16704/)
Opie and Anthony vs. 9/11 Conspiracy Theorists - Part 2 (http://www.foundrymusic.com/opieanthony/displaymedia.cfm/id/16703/)
Opie and Anthony vs. 9/11 Conspiracy Theorists - Part 3 (http://www.foundrymusic.com/opieanthony/displaymedia.cfm/id/16702/)

do you know what date those clips are from? id like to listen to the whole thing

[SwimConnerSwim]

Awsome clips. Jimmy really did fuck with them. I don't care what the debate is about, I want him on my side. Very cool.

[abbyas]

Loved it... especially when the kid said that the popular mechanics guy is Chertoff's nephew. He even got the rumor wrong. The truther talking point is that they're cousins. They aren't. They aren't related and have never met.

[BullsLawDan]

Then do it.

Give me at least ten. No, I'll cut that in half. Five.

You can start here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USA_PATRIOT_Act_controversy

or here:
http://action.aclu.org/reformthepatriotact/facts.html#abuses

The law is extensive and complex and I don't expect laypeople to understand the intricacies of it. Suffice to say it is draconian, and far beyond what the Framers envisioned for the powers of the Federal government.

And I don't want to see any Muslims, or Arabs, included in the list. Because, honestly, given the nature of our enemies, those people are, unfortunately, just going to be on the shit list, up until the point when their brethren cut the bullshit with that death cult of a religion of theirs.

I want it to be "ordinary Americans" who you have proof of persecution / discrimination as a direct result of the Patriot Act. And I want it to be something substantive, not "they looked through so-and-so's library records".

No offense, but your differentiation of Arabs and Muslims from "ordinary Americans" is how garbage heaps like the PATRIOT act get passed.

[Reaper G]

taken from the links to these ppls profiles lol
http://9-11.meetup.com/321/calendar/6816360/?gj=sj29
this has not been edited except for the screencaps

http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/1268/exchange1op3.jpg

Angry Young Man is an angry young man because he didn't get a free bowl of soup when he bought that hat, maaaaaan.

[Death Metal Moe]

I also hate how the "Metal Horns" have become something that anyone uses, even pieces of dogshit like this jerk off.

He probably has a "Creed" CD and thinks he's "a Rocking Guy."

Think again little bearded boy.

[Three Hole Puncher]

Here's what happens when an 'Angry Young Man' finally comes to his senses. It ain't pretty. You could almost feel sorry for him... if he weren't such an utter douche to begin with:

http://z10.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=16490

My name is Mike Metzger, MikeyMetz for short, co-founder of 9/11 Truth UAlbany. I will not go on about my past accomplishments in the "truth" movement, but I invite you to check out the official site and our stuff on GoogleVideo if you're that interested in my background.

I figure the best way to start this all out is by reposting a Facebook note that explains my "sudden change of heart" to anyone who was interested.


Change of Heart?

I might be thinking too much of myself, but I'm sure some of you are already jumping to conclusions over my apparent "change of heart." I can hear it already. "Mikey stopped smoking pot, and now he's ultra-conservative all of sudden." Or, how about "Mikey's fuckin girlfriend changed him overnight."

If there's anyone who simplified my situation using one of these rationalizations immediately upon observing the obvious changes in my profile, I don't think it's too outrageous to claim that you're one who quickly jumps to conclusions. I don't mean to offend anyone (although, I know I am), but I think that statement is rather representative of the entire 9/11 Truth Movement.

My "change of heart" didn't happen overnight. This has been a process that has been eating away at me for the past month and a half. I wanted to act strategically as far as "coming out" as a means to perhaps transition the 9/11 Truth group on campus to one that was less focused on strictly 9/11-related issues (aka more truthful ones). However, I was exposed to something that truly angered me deep down in the wee hours of this morning, which I'll get to later. I was so outraged that I can no longer keep my mouth shut.

For whatever reasons at the time, I no-showed the 8/11 truth action our group was doing in Albany. Instead, I watched a movie called Screw Loose Change. I expected it to point out a few corrections in some minor details of the film. To my surprise, it contested just about every claim in the entire movie. I was a bit shocked.

I was a true believer of all this controlled demolition nonsense for a time. I never cared about the physics or the claims of pseudo-"experts." What always did it for me was the fact that there was never a decent response to any of these questions by the government. Even the hit pieces you'd see on 9/11 were always personal attacks. The mainstream never contested the actual "facts" movies like Loose Change presented.

Or so it seemed. After watching Screw Loose Change, I delved into the world of 9/11 Truth debunking. Among my favorites are the Screw Loose Change Blog and 9/11 Myths Finally, someone was answered all these pertinent questions with something that was a bit foreign to me... facts agreed upon by the experts.

There are no facts in the 9/11 Truth Movement. Just a lot of theories, which eventually break down to "hey, we're just asking questions" if someone questions the validity of such. No structural, civil, or any engineers agree with the truthers. Yet, most of my friends will try to explain the hard physics involved in structural collapses. None of these people are engineers, physicists, or even in a scientific field, for that matter. Someone's supposed to take their word over an expert's?

The truthers will just tell you that all the experts are "in on it." Yeah, sure. Every engineer in the world is complicit in the government's murder of 3,000 people. And so are the firemen, who apparently ordered Larry Silverstein to "pull" Building 7. The truthers' misrepresentation of Silverstein's quote is one of the most popular "facts" to spit out, but in doing so, you are effectively in agreement that firefighters were not only involved in the controlled demolition of WTC7, but they are also aiding and abetting in the government's cover-up. Yeah, every firefighter who was out there on 9/11 is going to be complicit in the MURDER OF 343 OF THEIR FALLEN BROTHERS! To quote Loose Change co-creator Jason Bermas, "the firefighters are paid off."

This is absolute horseshit, which brings me to why I've formally distanced myself from this sorry excuse for a movement. Loose Change, 9/11 Mysteries, Alex Jones, and all the other kooks out there are fucking lying about, distorting, and misrepresenting the facts to further their personal agendas. And what is their agenda, you ask? Money, in the words of Shaggy 2 Dope, "mutha fuckin bitch ass money." Not only are they desecrating 3,000 graves, but they are profiting off of it. That, my friends, makes me sick to my fuckin stomach.

Some may think that this is just a big personal attack, and that I'm not presenting enough facts. I honestly don't give a fuck because the information is out there. I love how all the truthers, myself included for a time, brag about how they've done all the "research." Well my friends, research doesn't involve looking exclusively at other 9/11 conspiracy sites! Research involves looking at things from both sides of the spectrum, and making your own decisions. Check out the links I've listed above, or google "Screw 9/11 Mysteries" and "Screw Loose Change."

Controlled demolitions: absolute bullshit. Now, I know there are some legitimate inconsistencies in the story that can't be proven false. My problem, and your problem as well, is that we have been blatantly misled by people who are only interested in selling dvds and t-shirts. This is supposed to be a truth movement. At this point, Alex Jones could pull every smoking gun out of ass that proves without question that 9/11 was an inside job, but it will never excuse the fact that he had lie so blatantly. Fuck you, fuck avery & bermas, fuck 9/11 mysteries, and fuck every true believer who goes out there and tells people that they've "done their research."


I don't know what the future holds for the student group. For the time being, I'm gonna continue to fill out the paperwork and other such presidential duties because I take my responsibilities and promises very seriously. But you won't see me hand out one more 9/11 pamphlet, or ever utter the phrase "9/11 was an inside job" ever again. I'd personally like to see the group transition away from fringe conspiracy theories and focus more on local issues (God knows, there's enough corruption in Albany, alone), but I might get outvoted by truthers. If that is the case, I cordially invite any of the truthers who think I'm totally wrong to step up and take the reigns. The group is, in part, my creation, but I'll gladly abdicate the throne if all everyone wants to do is continue the truther nonsense.

Oh yeah, what sent me over the edge today? I watched Screw 9/11 Mysteries, which basically adds comments to the original movie. Like Screw Loose Change, every single theory spat out is immediately disproven with formal citations from the NIST report, scientific journals, and the experts themselves. By the end, the whole controlled demolition theory is a complete joke, as the film can't even keep their own story straight.

9/11 Mysteries ends very tragically with a phone call from one of the victims inside the WTC. You may have seen it, it's the guy who's frantically describing the situation to a loved one, but then suddenly, the building starts to collapse and all you hear are his last words, agonizing screams. The creators of this propaganda movie did this intentionally, to play on your emotions right after feeding you all their bullshit theories.

But as I watched this film again, this time with the annotations, I knew that the creators of this movie used that poor guy's dying moments for their own selfish gains of selling dvds and perpetuating myths that do nothing but denigrate the lives lost on 9/11/01.

Change of heart? My heart's always been in the right place. I was just cheating myself of making an informed judgment on all the information available.

I'm done, thanks.

Uhh... Mikey... you forgot to say, "I'm a dope, and I'm sorry for the damage I have done."

Douche. :icon_roll

[SwimConnerSwim]

He also forgot to check if anyone outside himself cared.

[ginaf20697]

At least he's man enough to own up when he's wrong. Not to mention smart enough to finally see common sense.

[norton23]

I suggest you contribute to these forums with your newfound skepticism of 9/11 Truth. Please bring up the issues that you have encountered through the "debunking media" mentioned above. - I and many other 9/11 truth activists have looked at that information too.


that was a response from somebody= this is what they all want...they wan't a giant forum on a horrific event to make a name for themselves and keep there boring lives busy,,,they all just wan't to wake up and pretend they are doing something inportant, when all they are doing is dragging out a sad event and hurtng everybody that was directly effected by 9/11,,,,that being everybody, especially those of us who lost loved ones.

R.I.P.

[NDBoston]

Just do your fucking homework. I give those guys, even though they came off as incredibly uneloquent, some major credit. They are doing the work the rest of you ignorant sheep should be doing, and that's trying to spread the TRUTH.

Like I said. Do your homework.

Fuck You.

I actually worked at WTC7 for Salomon Smith Barney for three years including 9-11. My best friend and numerous other friends from Cantor Fitzgerald died that day too.

I worked on the 43rd floor in a job that had me floor hopping every day (SSB had the 27-44th floors) and I never saw any large construction or anything out of the oridinary. SSB had 3 floors that were trading floors with people on them 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, 365 days a year. Many of us worked late and on the weekends. You get paid well but it came at a cost. You don't think we would have noticed people running demolition lines and putting explosives into the supports on each floor? Do you realize the number of people and time that would have taken to accomplish? Not to mention the fact we were packed in like sardines after the merger.

I've run into assholes like you over at Union Square. Idiots who think my building was wired for controlled demolition while thousands of people WORKED there and nobody noticed. I've been accused of being a CIA plant or a paid government agent. I kid you not.

Here's what these people are about. They are devoid of any real happiness in their lives and look at 9-11 "Truth" as a way of showing how bright they are and how they hold a secret that NOBODY else is aware of.

In truth, they are dumb as dirt scumbags who have zero critical thinking skills.

Depending on who you talk with now, they think it was a space ray gun, nukes or hydrogen bombs that played a roll in bring down the Towers. They still might be preaching Thermite too.

Call a local university and talk to someone in the engineering dept and learn something.

[JimmyMack]

When they came for Plunkies, I did nothing. When they came for Vyce, I said nothing. When they came for Fleaman, I loffed and loffed.

:clap::clap::clap::clap:

Post of the thread. El Oh El!

I had to read through all of this to make sure I wasn't being "Rudy Redundant" on this point, but if the whole point of this "conspiracy" was to get the authority to invade Afghanistan and Iraq, wouldn't the conspirators have the good sense to at least frame some terrorists (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organizers_of_the_September_11,_2001_attacks) from Iraq and Afghanistan?

Of the 19 Hijackers (jackers...snicker) here's the breakdown:

1 from Egypt
1 from Lebanon
2 from the UAE
15 from Saudi Arabia

And even though bin Laden was hiding in Afghanistan, he is still a Saudi national. Last I checked we tried to give the UAE the U.S. port security detail, advised Israel to stop kicking the crap out of southern Lebanon, held hands with Saudi leadership like we were leaving a sporting event together, and I think we're still pretty tight with the Egyptians.

Worst Conspirators Ever!