PDA

**See This Page With Full Graphics, Pictures and Color!** CLICK HERE --> : New Jersey Police Departments face ammo, supplies shortage


MJMANDALAY
01-22-2008, 06:18 AM
A nationwide ammunition shortage is hitting New Jersey police departments hard. As demand surges, police agencies are the target of price increases and longer waits for equipment.

But the biggest casualties are likely to be taxpayers who have to pay more for police to reload.

Troops fighting the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan -- along with the rising cost of supplies needed to produce ammunition -- are creating shortfalls in much of the equipment used by police agencies from coast to coast.

Police chiefs in towns across North Jersey have reported that the war has taken a toll on their ability to secure the ammunition they need. They are experiencing shipment delays of six months and longer for equipment that is also used by the military. And ammunition costs have risen quickly.

"There are very few suppliers of bulletproof vests and infrared goggles and equipment. Obviously, the soldiers take precedence over the police," said Brian Hague, a spokesman for Bergen County. The county was paying about $23,000 a year for ammunition three years ago, and now the costs are up to approximately $30,000. "It's a simple matter of supply and demand."

Many police officials say they are frustrated by the slowdown in shipments. Deliveries that used to come in three weeks now take six months and longer to arrive. And when they do, they often come with items missing because of the shortage, said West Milford Police Chief Paul Costello.

"Sometimes we have to borrow from other departments," he said.

Hague said the Bergen County Sheriff's Department had to borrow 20,000 rounds at the end of 2007, but they have since received their full order.

The solution is to stock up early and often, said Norwood Chief Jeffrey Krapels, whose annual ammunition budget is $3,000. He ordered ammunition two years ago on a tip that the war was creating a high demand for his equipment. "Our supplier told us that he was beginning to experience a shortage, so I over-ordered a lot back then and now I'm good until 2009," he said.

But sometimes, even efficient planning isn't adequate. Detective Andrew White of the Passaic Police Department said, "We placed an order in 2007 and it took eight months to come instead of the usual one month," he said.

White added that it's not just the longer waiting time that's plaguing police agencies. Since there are laws requiring police to train and qualify for the use of firearms, they have to pay whatever the ammunition manufacturers ask.

"We just have to go put extra money in the city budget to buy ammunition. I am foreseeing that most towns will have to do the same thing to offset the price difference," said White.

A spokesman from the state Attorney General's Office said there are no plans at this time to change the qualification procedures, which mandate that police qualify twice a year for firearms.

Tom Morris of New Jersey-based Eagle Point Gun, which supplies ammunition to police agencies around New Jersey and the eastern United States, said the cost of some cartridges used by both soldiers and police has increased by as much as 100 percent. Others rose by only 25 percent, but may still take as much as a year to obtain. He advises customers to order at least six months in advance.

Morris said the rising demand, coupled with the shortage of manufacturing facilities, is creating a dire situation in America.

"If we had another knock-down, drag-out, shoot-'em-up, kind of war, I don't think we'd have enough bullets to kill them all," he said.

Tenafly Police Chief Michael Bruno started organizing a bulk purchasing order among Bergen County departments after he was warned by his distributor of an impending 40 percent price hike and shipment delays.

"I sent out notices to all the police chiefs in the county that we should pool our ammunition orders together so that we can get better pricing and a quicker delivery," he said. So far, he's gotten a positive response to his idea.

Bruno said he has had to request a larger budget to cover the cost, he said. Tenafly police are likely to see a nearly $3,000 increase on their $11,000 budget.

Municipal officials say they are not likely to reject requests to cover higher costs. Tenafly Mayor Peter Rustin said, "It's not different from any of the other essential things that go into our budget. It's easier to ask people to conserve gasoline than it is to ask our officers to conserve bullets. I would consider ammunition to be something essential that you are not going to cut."

However, he did say he would ask about practicing with something other than live ammunition, which departments across the country have done. Some have even used paintball guns. But it's not a practice recommended by most North Jersey chiefs.

Sam_Adams
01-22-2008, 07:25 AM
The cops could also stop being so fucking wasteful and shooting tens of thousands of rounds at their private ranges that tax payers fund but can't use.

They only need to do qualification once a year and if they want to shoot more often then they can be like us and use personal ammo.

I stocked up thousands of rounds of ammo last year and the prices of course have risen a little bit again around here at the local stores.

When I was in high school one of my friend's fathers was a sergeant in our city and the cops would get a shitload of ammo issued to them at the range and since they "couldn't" turn in ammo they had left over they just took the shit home. So, he had like 15,000rounds of ammo stacked up in his garage.

THE FEZ MAN
01-22-2008, 07:29 AM
huh why do the NJ police even need guns, since the gun laws in NJ are so strict they shouldn't even need them

Sam_Adams
01-22-2008, 07:40 AM
huh why do the NJ police even need guns, since the gun laws in NJ are so strict they shouldn't even need them

Exactly, those cities where guns are banned are paradise. They don't need guns and even if they do, fuck em. They need to abide by the same laws they enforce upon citizens.

TheDrip
01-22-2008, 12:54 PM
They could probably by them by the truckload at a Newark swap meet.

MrBogey
01-22-2008, 01:46 PM
The ammo shortage is a direct result of hoplophobia which hinders arms production in the US.

New Jersey is setting itself up to be a shithole with the way the economy is turning.

Ted the Poster
01-22-2008, 01:52 PM
On the upside, this means that our Jersey Wackbaggers are free to engage in a crime spree of unprecedented proportions! GO GET 'EM!

d0uche_n0zzle
01-22-2008, 02:17 PM
One day at the range shooting a snub nose S&W, two NYPD are shooting their G19's at a can on the backstop. The can was about twenty yards away and these two could hit it with fifteen shots. I nailed the fucker on my third of five shots. Needless to say they packed their bags and left.

Voss's Tumor
01-22-2008, 02:53 PM
So are the cops up there driving $100,000 Chevy Tahoes like the pieces of shit around here who just write us more tickets to pay for them? Do they shoot simple Glocks and Tauruses or Kimbers and H&Ks?

To me that's the ultimate irony any time I hear about a city having trouble financially, when you look around and see nothing but brand new cop cars which are WAY above and beyond the call of what they need to do their jobs.

weeniewawa
01-22-2008, 03:44 PM
New Jersey is setting itself up to be a shithole with the way the economy is turning.

hasn't it been one for years anyway?

I'll bet each one of those cop cars has a brand new lidar laser gun tho

HummerTuesdays
01-22-2008, 10:16 PM
NJ 101.5 was talking about the appearance of an increase in the number of speed traps. I guess this answers the "why" question.

I wouldn't mind so much if they would kill more of the "special people."

BIV
01-22-2008, 10:24 PM
The cops could also stop being so fucking wasteful and shooting tens of thousands of rounds at their private ranges that tax payers fund but can't use.

They only need to do qualification once a year and if they want to shoot more often then they can be like us and use personal ammo.

Yeah, because it's not in the public's best interest for officers to regularly keep up their skills so they are a good shot when they need to be.

To me that's the ultimate irony any time I hear about a city having trouble financially, when you look around and see nothing but brand new cop cars which are WAY above and beyond the call of what they need to do their jobs. That's just not true. Cops are trying to keep up with souped up street models and rice burner crotch rockets and are often just left in the dust. They need the best cars they can get.

Sam_Adams
01-22-2008, 10:39 PM
So are the cops up there driving $100,000 Chevy Tahoes like the pieces of shit around here who just write us more tickets to pay for them? Do they shoot simple Glocks and Tauruses or Kimbers and H&Ks?

To me that's the ultimate irony any time I hear about a city having trouble financially, when you look around and see nothing but brand new cop cars which are WAY above and beyond the call of what they need to do their jobs.

Hey now, you get some fucking respect for the law enforcement and their desires of technology that they don't need.

If they want overly expensive technological devices in order to give people speeding tickets, spy more effectively, or even buy weaponry to more effectively kill citizens if they get out of line.

Hey, they need shit like CS tear gas(turns into cyanide gas if ignited), tanks, ferret rounds and flashbangs to set fire of people's homes and shit. Wait, I'm thinking of Waco again. The local sheriff was cool with the folks though and thought that the government was way out of line. The sheriff thought the best policy was to leave the folks alone.

Or maybe the cops need equipment so they can camp around your property if you're wanted for having a sawed-off shotgun. That way they can shoot your dog, your son, your nephew, and your wife at your home because you refuse to come out and die yourself. Damn it, wait that's Ruby Ridge.

Oh well, they need their toys.

Sam_Adams
01-22-2008, 10:45 PM
Yeah, because it's not in the public's best interest for officers to regularly keep up their skills so they are a good shot when they need to be.

They don't need to shoot that often. Once they learn how to use their pistol and can go to the range themselves and burn a few boxes of their own.

It's not like they are going to be shooting motherfuckers every day at work. If they suck too much to use their pistol properly then maybe they shouldn't be issued one. I don't fire thousands of rounds a year through my pistols and I still can shoot B27 silhouettes within the 9 ring at 50 yards with my 9mm.

They won't have to shoot that far in real life considering almost all lethal shootings happen in about two seconds and within 10-15 feet.

distortion9
01-22-2008, 10:51 PM
They should come over to my place, I have plenty.

d0uche_n0zzle
01-22-2008, 10:52 PM
Me thinks Force on Force training with Simulations would be a better training tool.

mik3
01-22-2008, 10:54 PM
This state has such huge problems. Middletown has a trillion cars it seems. I was in Barnegat over the weekend and their were at least 15 cars parked outside the police station, and I'd guess there were another 6-7 patrolling. But then I remember South Amboy, which is slowly turning into a shithole, has 3-4 cars.

Kugzilla
01-22-2008, 11:12 PM
Could they ask Ant to borrow some of his?

Chino Kapone
01-22-2008, 11:16 PM
So does lack of Ammo, mean they are controlling the nagger population? "whaa"

THE FEZ MAN
01-22-2008, 11:30 PM
i love to start shit with them about buying there own duty weapons and body armor. i have to buy all my own tools, and theres? fuck that. they would get off cheep, 600$ or so for a nice hand gun one time, then 5 or 600$ every 5yr for a new vest seems like a deal to me,

Sam_Adams
01-22-2008, 11:33 PM
i love to start shit with them about buying there own duty weapons and body armor. i have to buy all my own tools, and theres? fuck that.

Wait, are you saying that you don't want to buy them H&K Mark 23s, Sig Sauer P226/9s, PSG1s, AR-15s and MP5s? Some of those things that many Americans can't own in their areas?

You're crazy sir.

THE FEZ MAN
01-23-2008, 01:45 AM
Wait, are you saying that you don't want to buy them H&K Mark 23s, Sig Sauer P226/9s, PSG1s, AR-15s and MP5s? Some of those things that many Americans can't own in their areas?

You're crazy sir.

sure doesnt every podunk police department in the country need that shit?

BIV
01-23-2008, 01:50 AM
Wow do we have a difference of thinking here. If I had my way the police would be as well equipped at the military.

maz
01-23-2008, 02:03 AM
They should come over to my place, I have plenty.

i'm keeping all my ammo

i'm not depending on the P.D.
to protect my ass

seeinred
01-23-2008, 02:35 AM
Wow do we have a difference of thinking here. If I had my way the police would be as well equipped at the military.

That would be cool. If I could be as well equipped as the military too.

BIV
01-23-2008, 03:19 AM
That would be cool. If I could be as well equipped as the military too.
I think your missing the point that police should be better equipped then the average person.

seeinred
01-23-2008, 03:20 AM
I think your missing the point that police should be better equipped then the average person.

And I think that you're missing the point that they should not. This may be a case where we just have to agree to disagree :action-sm

Sam_Adams
01-23-2008, 06:13 AM
Wow do we have a difference of thinking here. If I had my way the police would be as well equipped at the military.

Why? So they can more efficiently kill citizens of this nation? Ya know, the general public isn't quite in the same group as terror groups and militaries.

Do they need CS gas and tanks to tear down homes with? Do they need ferret rounds and grenade launchers that are "less than lethal" because they spray harmful gas but if they hit a person directly then they will die from blunt force trauma.

Get real. They don't need more than a vest and a fucking six shooter.

d0uche_n0zzle
01-23-2008, 06:31 AM
Wow do we have a difference of thinking here. If I had my way the police would be as well equipped at the military.

That is called living in a police state. No thanks.

That would be cool. If I could be as well equipped as the military too.

Considering "equal protection under the law" I concur.

weeniewawa
01-23-2008, 08:58 AM
i'm keeping all my ammo

i'm not depending on the P.D.
to protect my ass

QFT

the police have absolutely no constitutional obligation to protect you, stock up on ammo.http://www.perfectunion.com/vb/images/smilies/snipersmilie.gif

HummerTuesdays
01-23-2008, 11:01 AM
This state has such huge problems. Middletown has a trillion cars it seems. I was in Barnegat over the weekend and their were at least 15 cars parked outside the police station, and I'd guess there were another 6-7 patrolling. But then I remember South Amboy, which is slowly turning into a shithole, has 3-4 cars.

Ugh. Stop comparing apples & oranges. Souf Amboy is smaller than Middletown and doesn't have the same Bennie problem that Barnegat has. A town is NOT going to shit just because they don't have as many cop cars.

Now let's get back to the topic at hand. How do we get cops to use their bullets for better? Not just on a shooting range. :)