House overwhelmingly OKs Mass. cell phone car ban

[stevethrower]

Taking a call or text messaging behind the wheel soon could cost Bay State motorists several hundred dollars under a harsh new proposal overwhelmingly passed by the House yesterday.

The bill would ban cell phone use and text messaging for junior operators but would allow adult drivers to use hands-free devices.

Launched in the wake of the death of a 13-year-old Taunton boy killed in a crash involving a text-messaging SUV driver, the bill would make it a $100 fine for drivers nabbed gabbing on a cell phone or text messaging. The second offense would be a $250 fine, and the third offense would carry a $500 penalty.

But the fines are only the tip of the iceberg, as the House proposal calls for a onetime $600 insurance surcharge for a first offense. And junior operators would have their licenses suspended for up to a year if caught texting or yakking behind the wheel.

The measure still needs the support of the Senate as well as the backing of Gov. Deval Patrick (http://news.bostonherald.com/search/?keyword=Deval+Patrick&searchSite=pubdate). Patrick spokesman Kyle Sullivan said the governor “supports efforts to limit unsafe driving habits” but has yet to decide on the proposed cell phone ban.

“As for any specific piece of legislation, we would obviously want to see what the bill looks like when it gets to the governor’s desk before making any final decision,” Sullivan said.

State Rep. Brian Wallace, who was one of 47 lawmakers who voted against the proposal, said he opposes the lofty insurance penalty.

“I thought the surchage was a bit much. It’s high,” said Wallace (D-South Boston).

Wallace said he hopes the Senate will “knock it down” to a more reasonable amount.

“I think they’ll change it. I don’t think it’ll stand up,” Wallace said.

Rep. James Fagan (D-Taunton) also opposed the measure, dismissing it as a “stupid” and “rotten” insurance company giveaway that would further hamstring cash-strapped motorists.

Supporters of the measure say a ban would reduce accidents on Bay State roadways. “This is a bill that will save lives,” said House Speaker Sal DiMasi (D-Boston).


“I thought the surchage was a bit much. It’s high,” said Wallace (D-South Boston). - Ya think

Linky (http://news.bostonherald.com/news/regional/politics/view.bg?articleid=1068651)

[Voss's Tumor]

Jesus... How many more ways do they need to take money out of our pockets with cops? I mean seriously, does anyone else see what's going on here or am I pissing in the wind?

[TheDrip]

Personally I don't really mind this. In the last month, I've been lucky enough to be an eyewitness 2 rear-endings. In both cases the driver at fault was talking on a cell phone.

The $600 surcharge is a bit much though, considering that if somebody is involved in an accident because of this, then their insurance will go up regardless. Also the case if this new legislation classifies talking on a cell as a moving violation.

[Voss's Tumor]

The problem isn't the cell phone though...

You know what all "they were on the phone and it caused an accident" situations had in common? The fucking drivers were being irresponsible and not paying attention to the road.

If you're going to legislate paying attention, then there need to be laws prohibiting eating, putting on make-up, talking to passengers, changing radio stations, taking off/putting on jackets while in motion, petting your dog in the passenger seat...

I'm pissed off as someone who talks on his cell all the time while driving and has never even been in a fender bender. Why am I being legislated on because the lowest common denominator can't pay attention while driving? Their cell phone didn't make them stupid, their DNA did.

(Disclaimer: I flipped a truck once while just driving like a jack ass on a very desolate road, basically off roading in the country, but I was paying attention, the truck just got away from me.)

[TheDrip]

The problem isn't the cell phone though...

You know what all "they were on the phone and it caused an accident" situations had in common? The fucking drivers were being irresponsible and not paying attention to the road.

If you're going to legislate paying attention, then there need to be laws prohibiting eating, putting on make-up, talking to passengers, changing radio stations, taking off/putting on jackets while in motion, petting your dog in the passenger seat...

I'm pissed off as someone who talks on his cell all the time while driving and has never even been in a fender bender. Why am I being legislated on because the lowest common denominator can't pay attention while driving? Their cell phone didn't make them stupid, their DNA did.

(Disclaimer: I flipped a truck once while just driving like a jack ass on a very desolate road, basically off roading in the country, but I was paying attention, the truck just got away from me.)

I can't disagree with you for the most part. That being said, is getting and using a hands free device or speakerphone so difficult for people? Is it some great burden that is being placed on people?

Those that die as a result of yapping or texting, I have no pity for. It's when they're killing others while they end up living, that pisses me off.

[Vyce]

ON AN ALL NEW
http://allthingschill.com/img/House_stick.jpg

[Stormrider666]

I can't disagree with you for the most part. That being said, is getting and using a hands free device or speakerphone so difficult for people? Is it some great burden that is being placed on people?

Those that die as a result of yapping or texting, I have no pity for. It's when they're killing others while they end up living, that pisses me off.

QFT. Nobody's message is that urgent, that you need to text it while driving. Because if it was, you would pull over to the side of the road. Just because we have this technology, doesn't mean we have to use it in every situation of life.

[Voss's Tumor]

I honestly just don't like hands free devices. There's an answer delay while the Blue Tooth syncs the call, there's another level of interface with which to drop the connection quality, it's another device to fumble with when using my phone, etc.

All that's besides the main point I have, though. I'm a free, adult American who uses his cell phone for business reasons as well as personal. If I get an important call while driving shouldn't I be allowed to safely use an electronic device and suffer the consequences of my own actions if I allow it to impair my driving? Do I really need a cop to enforce my own, personal safety?

Does this apply to all drivers? Now truckers driving through OK who might not be aware of this particular local law could possibly have their livelihoods affected by a moving violation because they were responsibly using a legal, electronic device and a cop saw them?

I know you're going to argue "intent of the law", but when was the last time you got a ticket from a cop because you were actually endangering someone? It's just something else to write a ticket for to generate revenue.

[Voss's Tumor]

It says using a phone and/or texting. Sending a text message while driving is crazy, it requires too much concentration for me to accomplish, but I do know people who are so proficient with their phones that they can literally send a text without looking, and they do it while driving all the time. Quite safely. It's not something that requires legislation.

Does this apply to police officers too? Because they type on a damn laptop while driving, which in my mind is much more distracting than texting. Or did they go to some sort of tactical "texting/typing while driving" school that makes them immune to the laws that are passed to protect us mortal, non-immune to the laws of physics and common sense civilians?

The crazy high dollar amounts of the citations should tell you the true intent of the legislation.

[TheDrip]

In all honesty, you can take the whole argument over the subject to a number of different places.

For instance, I'm sure as shit a more alert/10-2 on the wheel/cautious driver after a few beers (based on fear obviously), than I am when I'm sober. I pay attention to everything around me, I don't speed, I don't try to gun yellow lights, etc. When I'm sober though, I speed, I've hit a car (without any damage being caused to mine or the other car), and probably a few other transgressions that escape me at the moment. However, that doesn't mean that I think drunk-driving laws are oppressive. They're meant to keep the 'fuck-ups' at bay. So that's pretty much how I see this particular law.

It's another case of a few bad apples fucking it up for the rest of us.


As for how it affects those that have no problems driving and celling. Easy solution, keep on doing it, but if you see a cop, just say "call you back, there's a cop ahead". Coast becomes clear again, then it's right back to business as usual.

[Voss's Tumor]

If you don't think officers being able to convict based on personal opinion and a .08 BAC that's been systematically lowered due to MADD lobyist against the advice of every research doctor and scientist who devised the original BAC restrictions oppressive... Not sure if you fully understand DWI legislation

[TheDrip]

I'll see your point, and raise you this:

On that account, why not indict the entire vehicle code? Why not abolish the speed limit, red light running, etc? Considering that many people out there do it every day with no problems arising because of it. From there move to murder because quite a few convicted of murder actually killed people that deserved it in the first place (gang on gang violence, etc).

Like them or not, laws concerning DWI's, speeding, cell phone use, and murder do more good than they do harm for society.

[Voss's Tumor]

Not when their use is perverted to generate revenue for greedy police stations.

[Kris_LTRMa]

Let's remove more distractions by taking the radio and heater out of the car. Oh and how about not allowing passengers in the car to speak to the driver. And, let's say you can't drive with kids in the back seat because kids are a super distraction.

Honestly? There are some of us who are old enough to remember a time when cell phones didn't exist. You wanted to talk to someone, you waited until you got home and then called them. Or you pulled over and used this boxy thing on the side of the road called a pay phone if it was an absolute emergency.

And there were still accidents from distracted drivers.

[TheDrip]

If there's a way to pervert a law to increase revenue, it will be found and used. One needs to look no further than the tax code.

That's something that will never change.

[Voss's Tumor]

If there's a way to pervert a law to increase revenue, it will be found and used. One needs to look no further than the tax code.

That's something that will never change.

If you're on my side why are you arguing for legislation over personal responsibility?

[TheDrip]

And there were still accidents from distracted drivers.

but not from drivers talking on cell phones.:action-sm


(edit: I clearly forgot the wavy hand, it was just sarcasm)

[Voss's Tumor]

but not from drivers talking on cell phones.

I say we ban all fast food drive through windows. Eating while driving has to have caused more traffic accidents in this country than cell phone use.

I know, I know, but what about people who are just using the convenience of the window and plan to eat the food in a safe, stationary location?

Fuck them, their rights are less important than saving YOUR CHILDREN

[TheDrip]

If you're on my side why are you arguing for legislation over personal responsibility?

Like I said, I agree with a lot of what you said. However, if some dumb cunt hits me while yapping on his or her phone, it would give me a grin to see some extra punishment headed their way.

Besides, in my little head, when I think about this, a person that gets hit with a $250 fine for talking w/o a hands free device might decide to use it from then on. Then they will take one more factor out of the equation of a future car accident that kills a random innocent. (just how my mind plays it out, that's all)

Besides, in this case I don't see it as legislation over personal responsibility as much as I see it as legislation over personal irresponsibility. If we could trust everyone to be completely responsible in their lives we wouldn't need laws to begin with.

[Voss's Tumor]

Besides, in this case I don't see it as legislation over personal responsibility as much as I see it as legislation over personal irresponsibility.

If we're going to have cops go after soccer moms for bullshit to raise money instead of criminals, why even issue them guns?

We're turning our police officers into meter maids with shit like this, it's absurd.

And the monetary hit is WAY too high. Imagine a single mom who works whatever job she can and has to call the baby sitter between shifts to tell them she's going to be late. A cop sees her and writes her a ticket. This person who was just making an innocent call while being a responsible mother just took a $700 hit when she didn't know how she was going to pay rent this month anyway? Is this really what "public safety" has come down to?

[Stormrider666]

I'm all for being anti-think of the kids mentality, but I don't think this falls into that category. I think its more of have some fucking common sense issue and don't text while driving. Which out of all the things you can do while driving, has to be the stupidest.

[WhiskeyWhispers]

Texting is for queers (omg lol! fuk u n die) and I fucking despise phones of all kinds. I want to slap the phones out of peoples hands when they talk in stores and when I see people talking on them in cars I want to run them off the road.

In other words, I hope they do this in every state.

[Ballbuster1]

There's alot of other things in cars that distract people.
This is just the cause of the moment. What's next?

[TheDrip]

What can I say, I'm guilty of not having a problem with this because I know it doesn't and won't ever affect me. It's coming this summer in CA, but it's not something I do, so therefore I'm not bothered. Sort of in the same way that I have no problem with hammering a business with fines for hiring illegals. I'd never employ one, so whether or not the fine exists is moot to me. However, I already said that the cellphone fines were a bit much in terms of the insurance bullshit.


As for the poor mom argument, I could play devils advocate and say that if funds are so tight, why is she blowing money on a cell phone anyhow. As Kris said, there was a time that nobody had them, and yet we still managed to live life.

[WhiskeyWhispers]

In all honesty I can't count the number of times a day some retard comes out of a stop sign right in front of me or cuts me off without looking....... and they are on a cell phone. Not eating fast food, not changing the dial on their radio, not doing anything else other than talking on their goddam cell phones.

It's just amazing how the cell phone companies have everyone convinced that they need to be talking on a phone all day. You know what? We existed for a looong time without them, and other than emergencies, there is no reason for them to even exist, much in the same way that women don't need a monster SUV to drive their one retard kid to soccer practice. I don't need to wind up in a wreck because dipshit A had to call dipshit B with utter nonsense and crushed me with her monster truck when she shouldn't be driving anything bigger than a Hyundai and waiting to use the phone in the privacy of her own home. Fuck 'em.

[Voss's Tumor]

It's just amazing how the cell phone companies have everyone convinced that they need to be talking on a phone all day. You know what? We existed for a looong time without them, and other than emergencies, there is no reason for them to even exist, much in the same way that women don't need a monster SUV to drive their one retard kid to soccer practice.

I don't have a plan with 1,000+ minutes (which I regularly go over) because the cell phone companies have corrupted my brain, I'm on my phone all the time because it increases my business productivity by not confining me to my office. I can literally have two phone meetings on the way to a face to face meeting and I've just accomplished in an hour what would have taken 2+ hours to accomplish in the 80s, and I do it all the time without endangering your children.

I bet the congressmen who voted for this bill don't abide by it, and I also bet they never get cited because of their status, so once again they legislate from an ivory tower and exclude common sense from the equation so that they can take more money out of my pocket while saving no one, and they've done it by telling the stupid public that they're saving lives.

All they're doing is finding ways to counter the effects of inflation on their tightening budgets.

[ImAlrightSpider]

I think that it is stupid to ban phones in cars completely, but I can see where it makes more sense to use hands-free devices while driving. Honestly, I am surprised that Mass. of all states, is coming late to the table with a restrictive law like this.

On a side note, I actually knew the boy referenced in the article at the top. He was a student at my school. Even still, it pisses me off that I can't use my phone because other people suck.

[WhiskeyWhispers]

I don't have a plan with 1,000+ minutes (which I regularly go over) because the cell phone companies have corrupted my brain, I'm on my phone all the time because it increases my business productivity by not confining me to my office. I can literally have two phone meetings on the way to a face to face meeting and I've just accomplished in an hour what would have taken 2+ hours to accomplish in the 80s, and I do it all the time without endangering your children.

I bet the congressmen who voted for this bill don't abide by it, and I also bet they never get cited because of their status, so once again they legislate from an ivory tower and exclude common sense from the equation so that they can take more money out of my pocket while saving no one, and they've done it by telling the stupid public that they're saving lives.

All they're doing is finding ways to counter the effects of inflation on their tightening budgets.

Well a fancy feller like yourself should be able to afford a headset with all that movin' and shakin' you do, and if I'm not mistaken, they aren't banning those.

And for the record, I don't have children and could care less about their safety. In fact, if I were in a burning building filled with children, I would be tripping them and stepping on their heads on my way out to safety.

[Voss's Tumor]

That's not the point... I prefer not to use a blue tooth, I prefer holding a phone to my ear.

I thought I lived in a free society? Guess it's getting time to look into Australia again.

[WhiskeyWhispers]

That's not the point... I prefer not to use a blue tooth, I prefer holding a phone to my ear.

I thought I lived in a free society? Guess it's getting time to look into Australia again.


Man, a free society ended officially probably somewhere in the 80s, if it ever existed at all, this just happens to be one instance I agree with for a change. If i could get away with being sexist, I would say it should only apply to women (and asians........and old people) , but we both know that will never fly, so...... we all gotta suffer.

[TheDrip]

more importantly why are asians, women, and old people allowed to drive at all?:icon_roll

[bill333]

And for the record, I don't have children and could care less about their safety. In fact, if I were in a burning building filled with children, I would be tripping them and stepping on their heads on my way out to safety.

"FIRE! FIRE! Get out of the way!"
http://img156.imageshack.us/img156/9338/seinfeldlg9.jpg

[jackjack]

I'm old enough to remember when cellular telephones were called 'car phones'. They were tied to a car because they needed the power from the battery and a decent ground plane for the antenna.
Still, an amusing irony.

[MrBogey]

You know what causes most accidents?

Passengers. Yea, let's see you mandate everyone drive alone with no radios.

[bill333]

I think the second part of the fine is unnecessary, but ok with the first part. All I see are these yentas, driving with their fucking ears stuck to these phones, not watching where they're going, not using any directionals, you know, because they can't possibly switch hands or bother to use their signals.

There may be a few people who can drive and talk or times where you may have to drive while on the phone but if you can't put it on speaker or get an ear piece, fuck you, don't talk on the phone or pull over. I shouldn't have to deal with an asshole who isn't paying attention and driving becomes secondary.

I shit you not, I actually saw a person reading the fucking newspaper, while driving. Two pages, opened wide.

I will admit, the satellite radios could become a problem, with people trying to read the data pad. GPS and IPods are right there too.

We are an, ever so growing, I need it at my fingertips, impatient, asshole species.

[Glenn Dandy]

Jesus... How many more ways do they need to take money out of our pockets with cops? I mean seriously, does anyone else see what's going on here or am I pissing in the wind?X2

Ron Paul rEVOlution.


ive fucking had it with this bulshit.

[TreeFortRichard]

In all honesty I can't count the number of times a day some retard comes out of a stop sign right in front of me or cuts me off without looking....... and they are on a cell phone.
I have a NINE MINUTE commute in the morning...NINE FUCKING MINUTES...and at least 5x a day there is some asshole on a cell phone who almost or does cause an accident, or has some sort of dramatic impact on traffic flow.

There is an onramp to a busy route that i take each day, it is an uphill stopsign to an uphill merge onto the Rt. It has IT'S OWN MERGE LANE...but if you are behind some fucker on a cell phone they will sit and sit and sit...waiting...talking...untill all 3 lanes are open...also, take not of the vehicles that are not traveling w/ traffic, but rather at a slower speed in the center lane...They are invariably on a cell phone...
I LOVE THE LAW...


Remember the days when someone driving like an ass was just asian?

tee hee :action-sm

[Zona992006]

QFT. Nobody's message is that urgent, that you need to text it while driving. Because if it was, you would pull over to the side of the road. Just because we have this technology, doesn't mean we have to use it in every situation of life.


I want to get a electronic plate holder and scroll, "get off the fucking phone." I have seen so many idiots on cell phones doing dumb dumb things.

[oandapartycock]

I've been driving with a cell phone since 1992 and have not had ONE mishap. But at least I have the decency to pull over if I need to write some shit down or get on the internet.

But some people are just not able to multi-task or have the common courtesy of pulling over, so the rest of us get screwed.

[stevethrower]

Every time I almost get creamed on the Portsmouth traffic circle it is some Connecticut asshole on his/her friggin cell phone... it is not a hard concept... yield at the entrance... and wait for a space... and pay attention.

[HummerTuesdays]

I hate that our society is being told how to behave by laws. They should go about this a different way. If you're involved in an accident while on the cell, you should automatically lose your license for a year and pay a heafty increase in your insurance premium. If your talking on a phone kills someone, you lose your license for life.

Enough of this treating citizens like babies & ticketing them. Let them go until they fuck up, and then let them deal with consequences of said fuck up.

[bill333]

I hate that our society is being told how to behave by laws. They should go about this a different way. If you're involved in an accident while on the cell, you should automatically lose your license for a year and pay a heafty increase in your insurance premium. If your talking on a phone kills someone, you lose your license for life.

Enough of this treating citizens like babies & ticketing them. Let them go until they fuck up, and then let them deal with consequences of said fuck up.

Because it's in hope that someone will learn a lesson before it comes to someone losing a life. Maybe, just maybe, people will say to themselves "you know (said amount of money ) isn't worth getting caught babbling on the phone"
Yes, there are those that can actually pay attention to the world outside their own but for the most part, they are self important, unaware, assholes.


Kind of like laws set in place to warn other not to "R" you, or would you rather have that done and THEN tell them it's wrong and now you go to jail?

We're humans. Most of us are dickheads that need constant direction and have a short memory, unlike the rest of the animals on the face of this earth.

[Voss's Tumor]

Kind of like laws set in place to warn other not to "R" you, or would you rather have that done and THEN tell them it's wrong and now you go to jail?

That is the way it works... Are you suggesting we make all sex illegal because some people **** and that's just another case of a few bad apples spoiling the bunch? Or maybe we should arrest people for "Conspiracy to commit ****" if they see a stranger they might like to 'have a go at'.

You actually have to do the crime before you're punished, and that's the way it should be.

[sniper]

I hate that our society is being told how to behave by laws. They should go about this a different way. If you're involved in an accident while on the cell, you should automatically lose your license for a year and pay a heafty increase in your insurance premium. If your talking on a phone kills someone, you lose your license for life.

Yeah, cuz losing your license would have helped in this situation.

Bigos's driving record shows his license expired in October 2006 and has not been renewed because he has failed to pay the excise tax on his car. He was also cited for speeding in July 2006 and failure to stop at a traffic signal the year before, and was involved in a 2003 accident deemed to be mostly his fault. He had so many traffic violations that in 1997 he was made to complete a national safety course for drivers with poor driving records, according to the Massachusetts Registry of Vehicles.

Because all the laws already on the books did nothing in this case... fucker can't drive, but he'd been driving illegally for over a year. This seems more like using a tragedy to raise state revenue, and i own and use a bluetooth every day. I like the law in general but where does it stop, everything about other people annoys me, from the cunts brought up earlier in SUVs not using turn signals and taking FOREVER to make a turn because the phone is glued to one hand and the dumb cunt can't turn the wheel fast enough, to the morons that got a brand new GPS and can't have the common courtesy to use the look ahead feature to see where they're going in general before they get there, so now i see more fucking assholes whipping the wheel across 3 lanes to take an exit when the gps tells them to, or be stuck behind them not knowing what street to turn on so they stop at every single one, and god forbid you read the fucking manual to know how to do things quickly just because the commercial and the salesman in best buy told you it works perfectly out of the box.

Common sense is a thing of the past people...

[bill333]

That is the way it works... Are you suggesting we make all sex illegal because some people **** and that's just another case of a few bad apples spoiling the bunch? Or maybe we should arrest people for "Conspiracy to commit ****" if they see a stranger they might like to 'have a go at'.

You actually have to do the crime before you're punished, and that's the way it should be.



That's the difference, it's not a few bad apples, it's about 90%+ of the tree that don't pay attention. I don't know what it is psychologically, that a person just doesn't have the same awareness while on the phone, as opposed to doing other activities while driving. Maybe it's the relaxed thought of being on a phone that makes you think of being at home with not having to worry about anything else, especially a few thousand pounds of metal and other peoples lives?

Your examples don't work here. Driving while on the phone is not a prelude to a violation, most people ARE committing violations :failure to keep right, failure to use a signal, crossing over lines, failure to yield or stop. I've seen it time and time again. These are the idiots who ruined it for those that are capable of paying attention. They didn't enact the law out of nowhere, there were reasons why it came about and it was because of these idiots. On top of that, the insurance rates get hiked up, all because some idiot couldn't wait to talk about what was on Oprah.

Truthfully Voss, what percent of people, do you think, are on the phone actually talking about something so important, that it couldn't wait? Ever overhear what these vapid douches talk about while shopping in a store or while in line? They have the money for a car and a brand new state of the art phone but can't bother to get an earpiece?

I'm like you. I can actually talk on the phone while driving because I still pay attention to my surroundings but I'll gladly use a bluetooth or even put it on speaker, just to see the other idiots forced to actually pay attention to what they're doing.

[BIV]

Get off the phone, fuckos. Anyone who talks or texts while driving should be ass *****.

[weakside]

In all honesty I can't count the number of times a day some retard comes out of a stop sign right in front of me or cuts me off without looking....... and they are on a cell phone. Not eating fast food, not changing the dial on their radio, not doing anything else other than talking on their goddam cell phones.

QFT

I don't know what it is about cell phones but for some reason people* seem to totally turn their brains off, more so than anything else they could be doing while driving.

* I include my idiot self in this statement as the only accident I ever was in my entire life was because of my cell phone going off and then looking down at it just for a second. Dumb.

[Voss's Tumor]

That's the difference, it's not a few bad apples, it's about 90%+ of the tree that don't pay attention. I don't know what it is psychologically, that a person just doesn't have the same awareness while on the phone, as opposed to doing other activities while driving. Maybe it's the relaxed thought of being on a phone that makes you think of being at home with not having to worry about anything else, especially a few thousand pounds of metal and other peoples lives?

Your examples don't work here. Driving while on the phone is not a prelude to a violation, most people ARE committing violations :failure to keep right, failure to use a signal, crossing over lines, failure to yield or stop. I've seen it time and time again. These are the idiots who ruined it for those that are capable of paying attention. They didn't enact the law out of nowhere, there were reasons why it came about and it was because of these idiots. On top of that, the insurance rates get hiked up, all because some idiot couldn't wait to talk about what was on Oprah.

Truthfully Voss, what percent of people, do you think, are on the phone actually talking about something so important, that it couldn't wait? Ever overhear what these vapid douches talk about while shopping in a store or while in line? They have the money for a car and a brand new state of the art phone but can't bother to get an earpiece?

I'm like you. I can actually talk on the phone while driving because I still pay attention to my surroundings but I'll gladly use a bluetooth or even put it on speaker, just to see the other idiots forced to actually pay attention to what they're doing.

You can use so many examples to show why it's bad for the government to be able to make sweeping, money making generalizing laws based on circumstantial shit.

90% of the people in this country don't know how to safely operate a firearm, doesn't mean we should make them illegal.

90% of people run off at the mouth before they check all their facts, doesn't mean we should tax free speech.

I mean, I could go on, but what's the point? People are embracing this loss of personal responsibility and personal freedom just to make their lives that little bit more safe and comfortable, and it makes me sick to my stomach.

Those who would sacrifice freedom for safety deserve neither.

[TheDrip]

Those who would sacrifice freedom for safety deserve neither.

As much as I've always like this quote..... does that mean that murder should be decriminalized as well, or does it only pertain to thing like petty little cellphone laws? How about decriminalizing the dumping of toxic substances into lakes and rivers? It's impeding on Dow and Dupont's freedom to get rid of their shit wherever they'd like without all these bullshit restrictions.


Above it all though, I just find it bizarre that there's a segment of society out there that wouldn't know how to, or just plain couldn't, live their life without a cellphone. That concept is baffling to me. Then again, if it's merely the revenue the state is after, they could always just raise sales taxes and state income taxes. That should keep everyone happy.

[WhiskeyWhispers]

People need to just stop with all this "freedom" nonsense on this board. True freedom does not exist, because it cannot coexist with civilization. True freedom is anarchy, no laws, no government. When you can go outside and take whatever you want, do whatever you want and fuck whatever you want, then you can claim to be truly "free".

Fortunately, we live in a civilized world, and laws and government are what enable us to do so. It's not like the government is kicking down your door and telling you that you can't eat pizza for dinner. Talking on a cell phone while driving is compromising the safety of those around you, much in the same way (although not to the extent of) that driving drunk is. People are not concentrating on driving, they are too busy flapping their gums. Now you or I can maybe drive fine with a few in us or with a phone pressed against our ears, but does that mean drunk driving should be legal? Do we have to rack up a specific number of deaths before the light bulb goes off that maybe talking on a phone while driving isn't a good idea?

And so far as it being a "money making" law, you know what? Don't use your cell phone while driving and you won't have to pay a red cent, same as if you don't speed, run stop signs , red lights and do other things that endanger fellow drivers, you won't get a ticket. It's pretty simple really.

[Voss's Tumor]

As much as I've always like this quote..... does that mean that murder should be decriminalized as well, or does it only pertain to thing like petty little cellphone laws? How about decriminalizing the dumping of toxic substances into lakes and rivers? It's impeding on Dow and Dupont's freedom to get rid of their shit wherever they'd like without all these bullshit restrictions.


Above it all though, I just find it bizarre that there's a segment of society out there that wouldn't know how to, or just plain couldn't, live their life without a cellphone. That concept is baffling to me. Then again, if it's merely the revenue the state is after, they could always just raise sales taxes and state income taxes. That should keep everyone happy.

It's freedom to do whatever you want sans harming another person. Murdering someone hurts someone else, talking on my cell phone while safely operating my car, does not.

[TheDrip]

And we come back to this: you, me, Whiskey, and a great deal of people may be completely able to operate your vehicle safely while talking on your cellphone, however from what I witness at an almost daily rate on the roads, there are a large number of people that can't. They might not be slamming into other cars, but they're drifting over lines, breaking too quick etc.

No matter how much we argue about this, I still will never be convinced that being told to use a hands-free device, be it bluetooth or wired, or even a speaker is just one big, nasty, and oppressive inconvenience.

[JimsInfectedEye]

Can I still get blown while driving? Or is that against the law?

[stevethrower]

Can I still get blown while driving? Or is that against the law?

Only if you have tilt steering...

[Voss's Tumor]

And we come back to this: you, me, Whiskey, and a great deal of people may be completely able to operate your vehicle safely while talking on your cellphone, however from what I witness at an almost daily rate on the roads, there are a large number of people that can't. They might not be slamming into other cars, but they're drifting over lines, breaking too quick etc.

No matter how much we argue about this, I still will never be convinced that being told to use a hands-free device, be it bluetooth or wired, or even a speaker is just one big, nasty, and oppressive inconvenience.

It's also dangerous to drive with tire pressure too high or too low. I mean, blow outs cause accidents too.

I think cops should randomly pull us over and check our tire pressure. If it's not perfect, it's a $500 "Protecting the Public" fine.

Where does it end dude? I mean, the slope isn't even slippery any more, it's a fucking free-fall.

[TheDrip]

Where does it end dude? I mean, the slope isn't even slippery any more, it's a fucking free-fall.

I think that's a bit of an overreaction to say the least. It's not like they're saying no cellphone use period, they're saying use hands-free devices to drastically limit the distraction. I just don't see a problem with that.

Besides, you can't honestly say that something this trivial (yes, I really do think this is a complete trivial matter) this is a push for totalitarianism to replace democracy.

[Voss's Tumor]

I think that's a bit of an overreaction to say the least. It's not like they're saying no cellphone use period, they're saying use hands-free devices to drastically limit the distraction. I just don't see a problem with that.

Besides, you can't honestly say that something this trivial (yes, I really do think this is a complete trivial matter) this is a push for totalitarianism to replace democracy.

It's not just this... There are thousands of laws like this that simply erode liberties under the guise of public safety, and for some strange reason there's always money being taken out of the people's pocket when these are written.

[BIV]

It's not just this... There are thousands of laws like this that simply erode liberties under the guise of public safety, and for some strange reason there's always money being taken out of the people's pocket when these are written.

What would you prefer, they throw your ass in jail? There has to be some deterrent. If the fine was reasonable, no one would care and they would continue talking on the cell like the fucktards they are.

I don't dislike people who talk on the phone while driving, I haaaaaaate them.

[Voss's Tumor]

What would you prefer, they throw your ass in jail?

I'd prefer my government not pass legislation that accomplishes nothing but taking money out of my pocket. This makes no one any safer, it just makes money for the municipalities who write the tickets.

[BIV]

I'd prefer my government not pass legislation that accomplishes nothing but taking money out of my pocket. This makes no one any safer, it just makes money for the municipalities who write the tickets.
That may be the dumbest thing I have ever heard on this topic. Trust me as a traffic reporter, cell phones cause a shit load of traffic accidents. Far more than actually get reported. Get off the fucking phone and no money will be taken out of your pocket.

I know you don't like your right taken away maaaaaaaaaan, but you don't have the right to talk on the phone and drive at the same time. Hell, you don't even have a "right" to drive. So buck up, be responsible, and follow the fucking law.

[Voss's Tumor]

That may be the dumbest thing I have ever heard on this topic. Trust me as a traffic reporter, cell phones cause a shit load of traffic accidents. Far more than actually get reported. Get off the fucking phone and no money will be taken out of your pocket.

I know you don't like your right taken away maaaaaaaaaan, but you don't have the right to talk on the phone and drive at the same time. Hell, you don't even have a "right" to drive. So buck up, be responsible, and follow the fucking law.

Let's just talk about the facts in your post:

The reason they could legally say that driving is a privilege is that the government builds and maintains the road.

I mean, think of this from a legal point of view... This is legislation that prevents you from using a technology, and/or a combination of technologies. What if someone has an old fashioned car phone? I know it's unlikely and absurd, but laws are supposed to be set to punish those who do harm, not to completely prevent harm by any means possible.

I mean, this is the same board who's always screaming about dumb bullshit like kids wearing helmets while on bicycles and banning dodge ball in schools, right? It's the same shit, it's just that now we're the ones being treated like children.

This is how the tone is set for stricter legislation across the board, intrusive, liberty removing shit like this.

The FCC takes free speech, you guys are crazy.

Government tries to limit gun sales, the board goes insane.

This is just more of the same shit! It allows the mentality to slip on both sides, ours becomes more complacent one step at a time, and they feel like they can get away with a little more every day as long as they tell us it's in our own best interest.

[BIV]

Let's just talk about the facts in your post:

The reason they could legally say that driving is a privilege is that the government builds and maintains the road.

I mean, think of this from a legal point of view... This is legislation that prevents you from using a technology, and/or a combination of technologies. What if someone has an old fashioned car phone? I know it's unlikely and absurd, but laws are supposed to be set to punish those who do harm, not to completely prevent harm by any means possible.

I mean, this is the same board who's always screaming about dumb bullshit like kids wearing helmets while on bicycles and banning dodge ball in schools, right? It's the same shit, it's just that now we're the ones being treated like children.

This is how the tone is set for stricter legislation across the board, intrusive, liberty removing shit like this.

The FCC takes free speech, you guys are crazy.

Government tries to limit gun sales, the board goes insane.

This is just more of the same shit! It allows the mentality to slip on both sides, ours becomes more complacent one step at a time, and they feel like they can get away with a little more every day as long as they tell us it's in our own best interest.

I'd agree if we were talking about banning phones altogether, but we are talking about pressing a speaker button or wearing a $5 pair of headphones.

And the laws you mentioned are about protecting you from yourself. This is about protecting "me" from "you." I don't want to end up dead because some jack hole in a Mercedes thinks his shit smells too good to deal with a half-second delay while talking to his fat wife.

[Voss's Tumor]

I'd agree if we were talking about banning phones altogether, but we are talking about pressing a speaker button or wearing a $5 pair of headphones.

And the laws you mentioned are about protecting you from yourself. This is about protecting "me" from "you." I don't want to end up dead because some jack hole in a Mercedes thinks his shit smells too good to deal with a half-second delay while talking to his fat wife.

So you're admitting that you'd rather give up liberty for safety? If you see your (insert loved one here's) name whom you have a serious reason to be worried about for whatever reason (kid/brother/father in Iraq, pregnant wife) on your caller ID and you can't find your hands free piece and you get pulled over and written a ticket, you'll be happy with a $600 because you feel you were a threat to public safety? Or that that was $600 well spent because it makes the world a better place?

This whole conversation astounds me...

[BIV]

So you're admitting that you'd rather give up liberty for safety? If you see your (insert loved one here's) name whom you have a serious reason to be worried about for whatever reason (kid/brother/father in Iraq, pregnant wife) on your caller ID and you can't find your hands free piece and you get pulled over and written a ticket, you'll be happy with a $600 because you feel you were a threat to public safety? Or that that was $600 well spent because it makes the world a better place?

This whole conversation astounds me...

First, that is a ridiculous example. But lets address it anyway.
1. You should have hooked up your hands free before you even started the car.
2. If it's that important, pull over.
3. No cop is going to give you a ticket if you have a family emergency, just like they don't give you a ticket for speeding if you are in an emergency.

Second, making people use hands-free for public safety is no more robbing liberty then making toy companies keep lead out of paint or requiring chains on mountain passes.

And yes, you need to give up some liberty for safety. There has to be a line drawn somewhere between police state and anarchy. A lot of the crap they try to pull on us is unreasonable, this is not one of them.

[Hudson]

New Jersey enacted one of these a few years ago but I believe it was expanded to include putting on makeup and eating while driving..and I remember the seatbelt law being enacted..and upgraded to being a pull- over offense..and the same arguements were made across the board. Fact of the matter was.. unless you are driving lke an asshole ..you never got pulled over.

[Voss's Tumor]

3. No cop is going to give you a ticket if you have a family emergency, just like they don't give you a ticket for speeding if you are in an emergency.

This is the only point that really matters. The point is that the officer shouldn't even have that discretion:

http://wackbag.com/showthread.php?t=84493

This shit really is happening in Texas right now. Money has become so much more important than anything else that the cops have seriously been told that if they pull someone over, they HAVE to write a ticket. The Mayor of Dallas was on a radio talk show and when asked why she lied to the police and fire fighters who got her elected in regards to her promising them this 5% annual increase in pay, then took office and actually cut the benefits they had. Her response was, "Well I don't know how they think I can give 'em a raise when traffic citations and misdemeanor arrests haven't increased in 2 years! You gotta get out there and write those tickets!" (Laura Miller, Dallas Mayor if you want to look it up, I'm sure it's somewhere, I heard it first hand)

The intentions in which laws are written go away once it gets to the city level. There's no such thing as a cop who gives a shit what your story is any more.

[TheDrip]

There is no liberty being taken away here. You're not being told to NOT use your phone. You have two choices:

1. Continue using it just like you always have and run the risk of getting a fine...not incarcerated....not shot on site.

2. Continue using your phone, only now with a hands-free device or speaker, and not a wee little thing will happen.

Much like the seat belt laws. You don't have to wear one, nobody is going to lock you up for not wearing one, but you do run the risk of getting fined. That being said, I still rarely wear one, and have gotten exactly 1 ticket in my life because of it. Paid my $25 and didn't give it a second thought.


There is one commonality through it all, you're not being told not to use your cellphones anymore.


I'd really like to know why speakerphone or hands-free is equated to cutting your tongue and then drinking AIDS tainted blood in your eyes?

[Vyce]

So you're admitting that you'd rather give up liberty for safety? If you see your (insert loved one here's) name whom you have a serious reason to be worried about for whatever reason (kid/brother/father in Iraq, pregnant wife) on your caller ID and you can't find your hands free piece and you get pulled over and written a ticket, you'll be happy with a $600 because you feel you were a threat to public safety? Or that that was $600 well spent because it makes the world a better place?

This whole conversation astounds me...

I find the level of passion in which you're applying your argument on this issue to be astounding. As Drip pointed out, you're not actually giving up any liberty here - other than to continue to talk on the cell phones while holding it in your hands. And even then, you're not REALLY giving up that "right", you just face the prospect of a fine should you continue that practice.

I find it curious that you would apply the 'slippery-slope' argument to THIS topic. What do you forsee being the eventual outcome? Banning cell phones in cars altogether?

Separate issue, but I'm also curious as to what your feelings are on banning smoking in restaurants and pubs.

[Voss's Tumor]

I find the level of passion in which you're applying your argument on this issue to be astounding. As Drip pointed out, you're not actually giving up any liberty here - other than to continue to talk on the cell phones while holding it in your hands. And even then, you're not REALLY giving up that "right", you just face the prospect of a fine should you continue that practice.

I find it curious that you would apply the 'slippery-slope' argument to THIS topic. What do you forsee being the eventual outcome? Banning cell phones in cars altogether?

Separate issue, but I'm also curious as to what your feelings are on banning smoking in restaurants and pubs.

See, this being it's own topic is what makes it so hard to get my actual point across. I really could care less about the nature with which I use my cell phone in my car, but I want to be the one to make that decision for myself, not be threatened with police intervention. I mean, do you realize that there's almost no way to not be pulled over by a cop? That good intentions and police officers being able to use their discretion is a thing of the past?

Every one of these little "It's no big deal" laws gets added on that's another reason police officers have to justify our lives. I don't mean criminals here, I mean soccer moms and shit so that they can write more tickets to pay for their over-priced police force.

I understand most of you live in Philly or DC or New York, but the area around Dallas is suburb heaven, and each little city has it's own little independently run police station, and there are some places (like Parker, Texas) that literally has a population of about 1,500, and 10 brand new 2008 Chevy Tahoes that all in all cost the department about $70,000 each. If you break that down that's literally an expectation of about $500 per capita for it's vehicles alone. There's no reason for this much police presence in Parker, Texas, but they can justify it with laws like this where they can write any ticket to pay their bills.

Smoking in bars and restaurants? None of the government's fucking business. Those business owners chose that location to open a business based on the rules that existed. People who go to bars usually either smoke or don't mind the smoke, and a ton of bars (businesses) shut down when the smoking ban hit Dallas a few years back. If a bar owner wants to open a non-smoking bar to cater to that crowd, genius idea, but not one that needs to be legislated on.

Edit: I'm fully aware that this might only be a huge problem in Texas and the midwest, and you East Coast guys might just think this is crazy paranoid talk... It's really not, and yes, the cops here are abusing every little power they can think of just to make a buck for their departments. It really is having an economic effect on the communities in this area.

[Voss's Tumor]

New Jersey enacted one of these a few years ago but I believe it was expanded to include putting on makeup and eating while driving..and I remember the seatbelt law being enacted..and upgraded to being a pull- over offense..and the same arguements were made across the board. Fact of the matter was.. unless you are driving lke an asshole ..you never got pulled over.

Perfect example

About 5 years ago I was parked on the street of a downtown Dallas area called Deep Ellum. It was about 4pm, I was a sales guy and had to visit a client down there.

I get in my truck, turn it on, and pull away from the curb while simultaneously putting on my seatbelt, and I get pulled over by a cop and written a ticket for failure to have my seatbelt on with the car in motion. Literally 100 feet from where I had been parked to begin with.

"But I didn't even see you officer, I was putting it on as I pulled away from the curb..."
"The law says that you have to have it on the entire time you're operating a motor vehicle, and it's the last ticket in my book and I'm going home. Have a nice day"

This conversation actually happened, and no, I'm not dressing up the circumstances in any way. There was no regard for public safety, there was only regard for him finding excuses to write those tickets so he could go fuck off.

[Vyce]

I suppose my frustration with you in this thread is this whole "You'd give up liberty for safety?!?!?!" outrage of yours, which is legitimate to a point, but you seem almost to take the position that you don't feel that making that trade off is really all that justified. I can see your argument more clearly if you're expressing disgust that laws are being written not so much for the interest of public safety but rather as just more excuses for the legislature to pass laws that are really more designed to generate excess revenue (via taxes or citations) even though the justification for their passing is stated as to protect the public welfare.

But, I mean, to an extent we trade our liberty for safety every single day of our lives, and when I say that, I mean, that's the deal that we've consciously made as human beings for the ultimate survival as a species in general, and as a nation / state / local community specifically. That's the very nature of civilization itself - to SOME extent, we've made the sociological choice to give up certain liberties in order to live in an ordered society, ensuring that our general welfare and safety is protected. It's why we have laws, or even more basically, why we have created social taboos, it's the system we've created in order to advance as a species. We're not free to do whatever the hell we want to, we've placed limitations on ourselves so that we as a collective group have a better chance of survival than we as individuals do. So, in the current example, we've made the choice to limit our rights to talking on the phone while operating a motor vehicle (and by that, I mean we've elected legislative officials and granted them the authority to make such decisions for us as our representatives), because we've determined that there's too many stupid fucking people amongst us who can't fucking drive and talk on a phone at the same time without having accidents that wind up killing themselves or others.

I get what you're going for, I just don't think that EVERY liberty we give up in our society leads to some nefarious slippery slope, especially when the limitation in question is reasoanble and has a specific, justifiable purpose.

[Salem]

I live in MA. I say its about damn time. I drive truck locally here central and east MA and the accidents and stop signs and red lights being run due to cell phones is just horrid. I saw one guy just let off the brake and roll through a intersection (red light) on the phone looking into the back seat for something just friday morning and after nearly cause a 3 car pile up (this was during the 1/2 hr hail storm) he instantly flips off the guy who beeps at him for rolling into the intersection and stopping. Stopping in the middle of the intersection. Face pressed against the window looking straight up at the light not realizing hes in the middle of the road still blocking all the traffic in the small town. Yes. Still talking on the phone. there should be something writen into the law where situations like this people should lose thier PRIVILAGE to drive for at least 45 days.

[Voss's Tumor]

I can see your argument more clearly if you're expressing disgust that laws are being written not so much for the interest of public safety but rather as just more excuses for the legislature to pass laws that are really more designed to generate excess revenue (via taxes or citations) even though the justification for their passing is stated as to protect the public welfare.

And what point did you think I was making, again?

[BIV]

I was almost T-boned by an asshole on his cell phone yesterday. About two hours before that this cunt on her phone pulled out of a parking lot right in front of me. When I nearly hit her, she flipped me off.

Fuck people on cell phones. Good riddance.

If it was something like a seat belt of helmet then I could see your point since that only effects the individual, but this is my life these cell phone cock suckers are fucking with.

Voss's Tumor, maybe because of where you live you don't see the problem. But in high traffic areas like New York, LA and Seattle, people are dying because of this shit.

[BIV]

Just an update about Washington state's new texting law that went into effect in January.

Very few texting while driving tickets issued in WA

06:18 PM PST on Monday, February 25, 2008

By WILLIAM PITTS / KREM 2 News

Click links below for more details

VIDEO > New law went into effect New Year's Day

SPOKANE -- It's against the law to send a text message and drive in Washington State, but so far there have only been a handful of tickets handed out.

KING

The Washington State Patrol reports four citations have been issued since they began keeping track on February 1, and none of them were in Eastern Washington.

"We knew when this law went into effect that it would be tough to catch people texting while driving," Trooper Mark Baker told KREM 2 News on Monday.

Texting while driving is a secondary offense, meaning a driver can't get a ticket for it unless they are doing something else wrong at the time, like speeding.

Baker said officers are still looking for offenders, but are having a tough time because it's difficult to see what's going on inside someone's car.

"It's tough to see what's in their hand," said Baker. "It's much easier to see someone on their cell phone."

[domelogic]

i am a sales rep and wouldnt mind them banning cell phone talk while driving entirely. most dont have hands free and you can always tell when someone is on the phone. the eratic driving causes problems: slow then fast, not staying between the lins, hardly ever using a blinker, sudden turns, etc. its ridiculous and needs to be taken care of.