IE is dead

[bluecell]

According to this C|Net article (http://news.com.com/2100-1032-1012943.html), Microsoft will no longer offer a standalone version of Internet Explorer, not even for its Windows customers. Basically, they're trying to force users over to MSN. Luckily, there are options like Mozilla (http://www.mozilla.org) and, my personal favorite, Safari (http://www.apple.com/safari), which will probably be ported to Windows (and possibly Linux) when it reaches final version 1.0. No one should be surprised that M$ decided to dump IE on Mac anyway.

[Sinn Fein]

I'll just switch to Opera, or worse, Nutscrape.

[bluecell]

Originally posted by Sinn Fein
I'll just switch to Opera, or worse, Nutscrape. I still say AOL will kill Netscape, ditch Mozilla, and move on to WebCore (like Safari). I used Opera a long time ago, but I really don't see the point in paying for a browser. Especially when you can get Safari or Mozilla-based browsers for free.

[fcuknu]

i use bluto, but it runs of ie, nooooo. What can I do now, I have designed all my sites for ie, now im gonna have to design to the ns crowd?

[bluecell]

Originally posted by fcuknu
i use bluto, but it runs of ie, nooooo. What can I do now, I have designed all my sites for ie, now im gonna have to design to the ns crowd? Netscape/Mozilla, WebCore (Safari/Konquerer), and Opera are all standards-based, unlike IE. All sites should conform to open stanards.

[fcuknu]

I love IE, so simple, so clean, so small. Netscape is so bloated, and is just gross

[bluecell]

Originally posted by fcuknu
I love IE, so simple, so clean, so small. Netscape is so bloated, and is just gross Actually, codewise, IE is more bloated than Mozilla (Netscape). Mozilla is trying to slim down, Firebird (http://www.mozilla.org/projects/firebird/) being one example. WebCore is by far the leanest codebase. There are other browsers out there that are standards-based.

[fcuknu]

i remember watching a special on pbs on how these teenagers were brought in as an emergency to re-write the mozilla code. I think, im not sure, all i remember was teens re-writing ns code

[bluecell]

Netscape uses the open source Mozilla framework. Netscape was the most used web browser until AOL bought the company and turned it into shit. Then it was decided to make the codebase open source to compete with M$ IE. AOL still funds Mozilla, but I don't know if that will last too much longer. There's talk of Mozilla getting dropped and replaced with WebCore, which Apple helped create while working on the KHTML codebase. KHTML is very well architected and has been popular in the Linux community for quite some time. It's now found in Safari and Konquerer.

[fcuknu]

I mean from a web designers standpoint, netscape is just horrid. It supports little of what I want it to. And when it does display it, it comes out terrible. But HTML isnt a design language, gotta remember that, its a display language. I need to learn some more ccs

[bluecell]

Originally posted by fcuknu
I mean from a web designers standpoint, netscape is just horrid. It supports little of what I want it to. And when it does display it, it comes out terrible. But HTML isnt a design language, gotta remember that, its a display language. I need to learn some more ccs I think most web designers would disagree with you, just ask the guys at K10k (http://www.k10k.net). I use Mozilla on a PC and it renders fine. The rendering engine is the most complicated part of any web browser. I've heard more horror stories about IE misrendering than any other browser.

[fcuknu]

everybody i know says (including me) ns displays terrible from not supporting transparency, iframes, some ccs, and so much more

[bluecell]

Originally posted by fcuknu
everybody i know says (including me) ns displays terrible from not supporting transparency, iframes, some ccs, and so much more Hmmm... If you need any help, feel free to ask.

[fcuknu]

Well I just downlaoded ns to see how my site looked in it. I mean its not terrible, but here are some minor things whcih are incorrectly displayed. I guess I am still fixated on years ago when ns would totaly butcher my html

[bluecell]

Originally posted by fcuknu
Well I just downlaoded ns to see how my site looked in it. I mean its not terrible, but here are some minor things whcih are incorrectly displayed. I guess I am still fixated on years ago when ns would totaly butcher my html Just download Firebird (http://www.mozilla.org/projects/firebird), try it out. Step out of the box, it's fun. :)

[drunkturkey]

Originally posted by fcuknu
Well I just downlaoded ns to see how my site looked in it. I mean its not terrible, but here are some minor things whcih are incorrectly displayed. I guess I am still fixated on years ago when ns would totaly butcher my html

NS never bastardized HTML - MS built IE with non-standard features that were not agreed upon standards, but were cool to have and use, and therefore built an empire of minions loyal to designing for IE. The whole purpose of Active X was to make it a requirement to have a MS browser to read/use a site, and to basically chain people to a MS product.

Pure HTML is not bastardized by NS.

[fcuknu]

well my shitty html was

[bluecell]

Originally posted by fcuknu
well my shitty html was I'm looking at your code, I don't know why you'd have a problem. It also renders fine in IE, Mozilla and Safari.

BTW, Arial is the devil. ;)

[Darkstar]

Gotta say that I'm an opera person myself. Although I think people need to understand what is being done with IE. You aren't going to be able to just download it is my understanding. Because of the court ruling I think they can just make it part of the operating system. They just have to allow other browsers to have the API's to make call into Windows.

[bluecell]

Originally posted by Darkstar
Gotta say that I'm an opera person myself. Although I think people need to understand what is being done with IE. You aren't going to be able to just download it is my understanding. Because of the court ruling I think they can just make it part of the operating system. They just have to allow other browsers to have the API's to make call into Windows. Actually, IE is finished as a standalone application on both MacOS and Windows. M$ is only implementing parts of IE, like the Tasman render engine, into MSN. I believe it's great for compteting standards-compliant browsers.

[fcuknu]

Maybe Ill try real Mozilla, but I will never go with ns, too bloated

[fcuknu]

Originally posted by fcuknu
Maybe Ill try real Mozilla, but I will never go with ns, too bloated
there goes that idea, oh god its terrible, oh god the horror, yuck, it sucks, wont play my swf, downloads it, wont let it play in the browser, stretching out my tables, god help me

[bluecell]

Originally posted by fcuknu
there goes that idea, oh god its terrible, oh god the horror, yuck, it sucks, wont play my swf, downloads it, wont let it play in the browser, stretching out my tables, god help me Dude, you are the only person in the world having problems with anything else other than IE. Mozilla rocks, and it most certainly plays SWF. You know that you have to download the plug-in, right?

[RandomNY]

Originally posted by bluecell
Dude, you are the only person in the world having problems with anything else other than IE. '


I bet BILL GATES doesn't have any problems with IE.

[bluecell]

Originally posted by RandomNY
'


I bet BILL GATES doesn't have any problems with IE. I stand corrected.

[RandomNY]

Originally posted by bluecell
I stand corrected.

Of course he is probably using OPERA trying to think of a way to buyout the company. :)

[bluecell]

Originally posted by RandomNY
Of course he is probably using OPERA trying to think of a way to buyout the company. :) I'm sure Opera would welcome a buyout at this point.

[fcuknu]

Hey, I love IE, it does what I tell it to do. All Netscape is, is mozilla with a ns sticker on it. I like Opera, but again, the iface TOO BLOATED. My ie is nice and simple, 3 buttons, an address bar, thats it. Sure you can customize the other browsers also, but still. IE = jes-us

[bluecell]

Originally posted by fcuknu
Hey, I love IE, it does what I tell it to do. All Netscape is, is mozilla with a ns sticker on it. I like Opera, but again, the iface TOO BLOATED. My ie is nice and simple, 3 buttons, an address bar, thats it. Sure you can customize the other browsers also, but still. IE = jes-us Look, I checked out your source code and I checked your site on Safari, Firebird and IE. The site looked the same on all three browsers. There's absolutely nothing in your source code that would make your site display differently in IE, Mozilla, Safari or Opera - NOTHING! If you don't feel like using Mozilla for whatever reason, wait for Safari to come out on Windows. The Firebird browser, though, is the lightest Mozilla browser to date. It's also much lighter than IE.

Next time you think you'll a problem with your site not displaying properly, don't "optimize" your site for IE. This paragraph from the C|Net article says it all...Despite the efforts of standards groups such as the World Wide Web Consortium (W3C), of which Microsoft is an active member, many Web sites are still coded to work with IE, rather than the standards that IE and other browsers support.
It's also important to note that Microsoft is no longer a member of the W3C.

[Darkstar]

Sorry, I have to agree with the Mozilla being a pain in the ass. And NS has become a huge cpu, memory hogging piece of crap. I used to love it and would never use IE. With IE 5.5 it became much better.

I actually like IE now. I hate to admit. What's funny is I now work with a guy who was the lead release engineer for IE4. Told him now I had someone to blame for that hell, to which he responded "Well you have to blame me for IE 3 as well."