Obama defends Anti-White Minister, But Threw Imus under the Bus

[Razor Roman]

Still wanna support him, Opie & Jim?

pPkZm3aikDA

The audio is from the last hour of the Sean Hannity show... interesting how Obama has no trouble throwing Imus under the bus for the most innocent of racial statements... but still won't disavow this horrible anti-White minister. Obama says he's the candidate of change, but he's just Al Sharpton without the anger.

[Stormrider666]

Barack Obama, in the beginning of his speech today disavowed the statements made by Wright. He did also this past Friday. I mean I don't know what else people want from Obama. What take Wright out back and shoot him. If anybody heard the speech today, there is no way in hell you can compare Obama to Sharpton. I was a supporter of Imus and thought he got a raw deal, however in the grand scheme of things, I'm still supporting Barack.

[RMM46]

Black guy with a Muslim name goes a church whose pastor hates white people....


and we're shocked by this??? Really???

[Voss's Tumor]

Barack Obama, in the beginning of his speech today disavowed the statements made by Wright. He did also this past Friday. I mean I don't know what else people want from Obama. What take Wright out back and shoot him. If anybody heard the speech today, there is no way in hell you can compare Obama to Sharpton. I was a supporter of Imus and thought he got a raw deal, however in the grand scheme of things, I'm still supporting Barack.

This is what happens dude. No presidential candidate is treated fairly regardless of race. In fact, people ignoring the facts and treating Obama like a terrorist white hater is the most unracist thing that can happen here, because they'd do the same thing to a white candidate, they'd just use different catch phrases.

[Stormrider666]

This is what happens dude. No presidential candidate is treated fairly regardless of race. In fact, people ignoring the facts and treating Obama like a terrorist white hater is the most unracist thing that can happen here, because they'd do the same thing to a white candidate, they'd just use different catch phrases.

Yeah no shit. I might be voting for McCain, if for some reason Obama doesn't get the Democratic nomination. Even though McCain has to basically kiss the rings of the christian conseratives to get their support. Many of which who have also said batshit insane things.

[Plunkies]

He only fired him because he got caught. You think he had no idea what the guy was about?

[RMM46]

Even though McCain has to basically kiss the rings of the christian conseratives to get their support. Many of which who have also said batshit insane things.

Let him. His voting record shows that he doesn't give 2 shits what the Christian Conservatives say...so if he cozies up to them a couple of times over the next few months, does anybody really think that he is going to bend over backward for them if he wins?

He never did before...why would he start now?

[Stormrider666]

Let him. His voting record shows that he doesn't give 2 shits what the Christian Conservatives say...so if he cozies up to them a couple of times over the next few months, does anybody really think that he is going to bend over backward for them if he wins?

He never did before...why would he start now?

I hope not. I just hate the fact McCain had to say, "Its hard to the lord's work, in the land of satan".

[Razor Roman]

He only fired him because he got caught. You think he had no idea what the guy was about?

EXACTLY

and Jeremiah Wright even said he was uninvited from speaking at Obama's announcement because he "get's a little rough during the sermons"

[Capt.Caveman]

i hate them all. if i had to rank them it would be mccain, obama , hillary. obama is way to liberal for me but it seems like he wants to do some good. hillary is just a disaster of a human being. i'm going with mccain even though his stance on immigration makes me want to beat him with a hammer

[Voss's Tumor]

Yeah no shit. I might be voting for McCain, if for some reason Obama doesn't get the Democratic nomination. Even though McCain has to basically kiss the rings of the christian conseratives to get their support. Many of which who have also said batshit insane things.

You better watch it dude, you keep that kind of rational talk up and Zona and Earl might just throw you out of your race.

[Stormrider666]

You better watch it dude, you keep that kind of rational talk up and Zona and Earl might just throw you out of your race.

Many have tried. All have failed.

[Vyce]

Barack Obama, in the beginning of his speech today disavowed the statements made by Wright. He did also this past Friday. I mean I don't know what else people want from Obama. What take Wright out back and shoot him. If anybody heard the speech today, there is no way in hell you can compare Obama to Sharpton. I was a supporter of Imus and thought he got a raw deal, however in the grand scheme of things, I'm still supporting Barack.

Here's the problem.

"I understand MSNBC has suspended Mr. Imus," Obama told ABC News, "but I would also say that there's nobody on my staff who would still be working for me if they made a comment like that about anybody of any ethnic group. And I would hope that NBC ends up having that same attitude."

Link. (http://www.abcnews.go.com/Politics/story?id=3031317&page=1)

He's a fucking hypocrite.

Wright says things 1000 times worse than "nappy-headed hoes", and not only was he a part of Obama's crew - until he got caught, of course - but Obama, even today, said he couldn't denounce the man, because that'd be like denouncing "the entire black community".

He's full of shit.

[KantSpelGi]

You better watch it dude, you keep that kind of rational talk up and Zona and Earl might just throw you out of your race.
http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/bvb32758/zona99--1.jpg

Lordy Lordy yous white people is crazy.
:icon_bigg

[LiddyRules]

He's a hypocrite, but they all are. I really just don't care about this at all. I see this is as a non-issue. Is it interesting to see how he handles this? Yes. But do I fear that because of this guy Obama has plans to put all white people in chains? Definitely.

[Razor Roman]

He's a hypocrite, but they all are. I really just don't care about this at all. I see this is as a non-issue. Is it interesting to see how he handles this? Yes. But do I fear that because of this guy Obama has plans to put all white people in chains? Definitely.

He has no experience, so he is saying we should vote for him because he has good JUDGEMENT.

Does this show good judgement? Obama's friend Oprah used to belong to this church but LEFT IT because of Wright's sermons.

Obama joined this church cause it was politically expedient. Remember when he first started out he wasn't "black enough" cause he's half white, went to good schools, etc... this was his way of bein' one of "the community"

[Sinn Fein]

Everyone's forgetting, only white people can be racist. Equivalent behavior from non-white people is something they are entitled to, just like slavery reparations. :icon_roll

[mendozathejew]

hey razor, do you have audio of Wright making fun of Tiger Woods 'swinging his cablasian hips and needs to be beat.' that gave me a chuckle when I heard it on hannity

I dont mind Obama. but everyone around him is nuts.

[Kris_LTRMa]

Obama's race speech today:

video here (http://my.barackobama.com/ObamasOwnWords)


I can no more disown him than I can disown the black community. I can no more disown him than I can my white grandmother

For all his rhetoric about this man, the Rev will always be lurking around Obama's corner.

The full text is here:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23690567/

PHILADELPHIA - "We the people, in order to form a more perfect union."

Two hundred and twenty one years ago, in a hall that still stands across the street, a group of men gathered and, with these simple words, launched America's improbable experiment in democracy. Farmers and scholars; statesmen and patriots who had traveled across an ocean to escape tyranny and persecution finally made real their declaration of independence at a Philadelphia convention that lasted through the spring of 1787.

The document they produced was eventually signed but ultimately unfinished. It was stained by this nation's original sin of slavery, a question that divided the colonies and brought the convention to a stalemate until the founders chose to allow the slave trade to continue for at least twenty more years, and to leave any final resolution to future generations.

Of course, the answer to the slavery question was already embedded within our Constitution - a Constitution that had at is very core the ideal of equal citizenship under the law; a Constitution that promised its people liberty, and justice, and a union that could be and should be perfected over time.

And yet words on a parchment would not be enough to deliver slaves from bondage, or provide men and women of every color and creed their full rights and obligations as citizens of the United States. What would be needed were Americans in successive generations who were willing to do their part - through protests and struggle, on the streets and in the courts, through a civil war and civil disobedience and always at great risk - to narrow that gap between the promise of our ideals and the reality of their time.

This was one of the tasks we set forth at the beginning of this campaign - to continue the long march of those who came before us, a march for a more just, more equal, more free, more caring and more prosperous America. I chose to run for the presidency at this moment in history because I believe deeply that we cannot solve the challenges of our time unless we solve them together - unless we perfect our union by understanding that we may have different stories, but we hold common hopes; that we may not look the same and we may not have come from the same place, but we all want to move in the same direction - towards a better future for of children and our grandchildren.

This belief comes from my unyielding faith in the decency and generosity of the American people. But it also comes from my own American story.

I am the son of a black man from Kenya and a white woman from Kansas. I was raised with the help of a white grandfather who survived a Depression to serve in Patton's Army during World War II and a white grandmother who worked on a bomber assembly line at Fort Leavenworth while he was overseas. I've gone to some of the best schools in America and lived in one of the world's poorest nations. I am married to a black American who carries within her the blood of slaves and slaveowners - an inheritance we pass on to our two precious daughters. I have brothers, sisters, nieces, nephews, uncles and cousins, of every race and every hue, scattered across three continents, and for as long as I live, I will never forget that in no other country on Earth is my story even possible.

It's a story that hasn't made me the most conventional candidate. But it is a story that has seared into my genetic makeup the idea that this nation is more than the sum of its parts - that out of many, we are truly one.

Throughout the first year of this campaign, against all predictions to the contrary, we saw how hungry the American people were for this message of unity. Despite the temptation to view my candidacy through a purely racial lens, we won commanding victories in states with some of the whitest populations in the country. In South Carolina, where the Confederate Flag still flies, we built a powerful coalition of African Americans and white Americans.

This is not to say that race has not been an issue in the campaign. At various stages in the campaign, some commentators have deemed me either "too black" or "not black enough." We saw racial tensions bubble to the surface during the week before the South Carolina primary. The press has scoured every exit poll for the latest evidence of racial polarization, not just in terms of white and black, but black and brown as well.

And yet, it has only been in the last couple of weeks that the discussion of race in this campaign has taken a particularly divisive turn.

On one end of the spectrum, we've heard the implication that my candidacy is somehow an exercise in affirmative action; that it's based solely on the desire of wide-eyed liberals to purchase racial reconciliation on the cheap. On the other end, we've heard my former pastor, Reverend Jeremiah Wright, use incendiary language to express views that have the potential not only to widen the racial divide, but views that denigrate both the greatness and the goodness of our nation; that rightly offend white and black alike.

I have already condemned, in unequivocal terms, the statements of Reverend Wright that have caused such controversy. For some, nagging questions remain. Did I know him to be an occasionally fierce critic of American domestic and foreign policy? Of course. Did I ever hear him make remarks that could be considered controversial while I sat in church? Yes. Did I strongly disagree with many of his political views? Absolutely - just as I'm sure many of you have heard remarks from your pastors, priests, or rabbis with which you strongly disagreed.

But the remarks that have caused this recent firestorm weren't simply controversial. They weren't simply a religious leader's effort to speak out against perceived injustice. Instead, they expressed a profoundly distorted view of this country - a view that sees white racism as endemic, and that elevates what is wrong with America above all that we know is right with America; a view that sees the conflicts in the Middle East as rooted primarily in the actions of stalwart allies like Israel, instead of emanating from the perverse and hateful ideologies of radical Islam.

As such, Reverend Wright's comments were not only wrong but divisive, divisive at a time when we need unity; racially charged at a time when we need to come together to solve a set of monumental problems - two wars, a terrorist threat, a falling economy, a chronic health care crisis and potentially devastating climate change; problems that are neither black or white or Latino or Asian, but rather problems that confront us all.

Given my background, my politics, and my professed values and ideals, there will no doubt be those for whom my statements of condemnation are not enough. Why associate myself with Reverend Wright in the first place, they may ask? Why not join another church? And I confess that if all that I knew of Reverend Wright were the snippets of those sermons that have run in an endless loop on the television and You Tube, or if Trinity United Church of Christ conformed to the caricatures being peddled by some commentators, there is no doubt that I would react in much the same way

But the truth is, that isn't all that I know of the man. The man I met more than twenty years ago is a man who helped introduce me to my Christian faith, a man who spoke to me about our obligations to love one another; to care for the sick and lift up the poor. He is a man who served his country as a U.S. Marine; who has studied and lectured at some of the finest universities and seminaries in the country, and who for over thirty years led a church that serves the community by doing God's work here on Earth - by housing the homeless, ministering to the needy, providing day care services and scholarships and prison ministries, and reaching out to those suffering from HIV/AIDS.

In my first book, Dreams From My Father, I described the experience of my first service at Trinity:

"People began to shout, to rise from their seats and clap and cry out, a forceful wind carrying the reverend's voice up into the rafters….And in that single note - hope! - I heard something else; at the foot of that cross, inside the thousands of churches across the city, I imagined the stories of ordinary black people merging with the stories of David and Goliath, Moses and Pharaoh, the Christians in the lion's den, Ezekiel's field of dry bones. Those stories - of survival, and freedom, and hope - became our story, my story; the blood that had spilled was our blood, the tears our tears; until this black church, on this bright day, seemed once more a vessel carrying the story of a people into future generations and into a larger world. Our trials and triumphs became at once unique and universal, black and more than black; in chronicling our journey, the stories and songs gave us a means to reclaim memories that we didn't need to feel shame about…memories that all people might study and cherish - and with which we could start to rebuild."

That has been my experience at Trinity. Like other predominantly black churches across the country, Trinity embodies the black community in its entirety - the doctor and the welfare mom, the model student and the former gang-banger. Like other black churches, Trinity's services are full of raucous laughter and sometimes bawdy humor. They are full of dancing, clapping, screaming and shouting that may seem jarring to the untrained ear. The church contains in full the kindness and cruelty, the fierce intelligence and the shocking ignorance, the struggles and successes, the love and yes, the bitterness and bias that make up the black experience in America.

And this helps explain, perhaps, my relationship with Reverend Wright. As imperfect as he may be, he has been like family to me. He strengthened my faith, officiated my wedding, and baptized my children. Not once in my conversations with him have I heard him talk about any ethnic group in derogatory terms, or treat whites with whom he interacted with anything but courtesy and respect. He contains within him the contradictions - the good and the bad - of the community that he has served diligently for so many years.

I can no more disown him than I can disown the black community. I can no more disown him than I can my white grandmother - a woman who helped raise me, a woman who sacrificed again and again for me, a woman who loves me as much as she loves anything in this world, but a woman who once confessed her fear of black men who passed by her on the street, and who on more than one occasion has uttered racial or ethnic stereotypes that made me cringe.

These people are a part of me. And they are a part of America, this country that I love.

Some will see this as an attempt to justify or excuse comments that are simply inexcusable. I can assure you it is not. I suppose the politically safe thing would be to move on from this episode and just hope that it fades into the woodwork. We can dismiss Reverend Wright as a crank or a demagogue, just as some have dismissed Geraldine Ferraro, in the aftermath of her recent statements, as harboring some deep-seated racial bias.

But race is an issue that I believe this nation cannot afford to ignore right now. We would be making the same mistake that Reverend Wright made in his offending sermons about America - to simplify and stereotype and amplify the negative to the point that it distorts reality.

The fact is that the comments that have been made and the issues that have surfaced over the last few weeks reflect the complexities of race in this country that we've never really worked through - a part of our union that we have yet to perfect. And if we walk away now, if we simply retreat into our respective corners, we will never be able to come together and solve challenges like health care, or education, or the need to find good jobs for every American.

Understanding this reality requires a reminder of how we arrived at this point. As William Faulkner once wrote, "The past isn't dead and buried. In fact, it isn't even past." We do not need to recite here the history of racial injustice in this country. But we do need to remind ourselves that so many of the disparities that exist in the African-American community today can be directly traced to inequalities passed on from an earlier generation that suffered under the brutal legacy of slavery and Jim Crow.

Segregated schools were, and are, inferior schools; we still haven't fixed them, fifty years after Brown v. Board of Education, and the inferior education they provided, then and now, helps explain the pervasive achievement gap between today's black and white students.

Legalized discrimination - where blacks were prevented, often through violence, from owning property, or loans were not granted to African-American business owners, or black homeowners could not access FHA mortgages, or blacks were excluded from unions, or the police force, or fire departments - meant that black families could not amass any meaningful wealth to bequeath to future generations. That history helps explain the wealth and income gap between black and white, and the concentrated pockets of poverty that persists in so many of today's urban and rural communities.

A lack of economic opportunity among black men, and the shame and frustration that came from not being able to provide for one's family, contributed to the erosion of black families - a problem that welfare policies for many years may have worsened. And the lack of basic services in so many urban black neighborhoods - parks for kids to play in, police walking the beat, regular garbage pick-up and building code enforcement - all helped create a cycle of violence, blight and neglect that continue to haunt us.

This is the reality in which Reverend Wright and other African-Americans of his generation grew up. They came of age in the late fifties and early sixties, a time when segregation was still the law of the land and opportunity was systematically constricted. What's remarkable is not how many failed in the face of discrimination, but rather how many men and women overcame the odds; how many were able to make a way out of no way for those like me who would come after them.

But for all those who scratched and clawed their way to get a piece of the American Dream, there were many who didn't make it - those who were ultimately defeated, in one way or another, by discrimination. That legacy of defeat was passed on to future generations - those young men and increasingly young women who we see standing on street corners or languishing in our prisons, without hope or prospects for the future. Even for those blacks who did make it, questions of race, and racism, continue to define their worldview in fundamental ways. For the men and women of Reverend Wright's generation, the memories of humiliation and doubt and fear have not gone away; nor has the anger and the bitterness of those years. That anger may not get expressed in public, in front of white co-workers or white friends. But it does find voice in the barbershop or around the kitchen table. At times, that anger is exploited by politicians, to gin up votes along racial lines, or to make up for a politician's own failings.

And occasionally it finds voice in the church on Sunday morning, in the pulpit and in the pews. The fact that so many people are surprised to hear that anger in some of Reverend Wright's sermons simply reminds us of the old truism that the most segregated hour in American life occurs on Sunday morning. That anger is not always productive; indeed, all too often it distracts attention from solving real problems; it keeps us from squarely facing our own complicity in our condition, and prevents the African-American community from forging the alliances it needs to bring about real change. But the anger is real; it is powerful; and to simply wish it away, to condemn it without understanding its roots, only serves to widen the chasm of misunderstanding that exists between the races.

In fact, a similar anger exists within segments of the white community. Most working- and middle-class white Americans don't feel that they have been particularly privileged by their race. Their experience is the immigrant experience - as far as they're concerned, no one's handed them anything, they've built it from scratch. They've worked hard all their lives, many times only to see their jobs shipped overseas or their pension dumped after a lifetime of labor. They are anxious about their futures, and feel their dreams slipping away; in an era of stagnant wages and global competition, opportunity comes to be seen as a zero sum game, in which your dreams come at my expense. So when they are told to bus their children to a school across town; when they hear that an African American is getting an advantage in landing a good job or a spot in a good college because of an injustice that they themselves never committed; when they're told that their fears about crime in urban neighborhoods are somehow prejudiced, resentment builds over time.

Like the anger within the black community, these resentments aren't always expressed in polite company. But they have helped shape the political landscape for at least a generation. Anger over welfare and affirmative action helped forge the Reagan Coalition. Politicians routinely exploited fears of crime for their own electoral ends. Talk show hosts and conservative commentators built entire careers unmasking bogus claims of racism while dismissing legitimate discussions of racial injustice and inequality as mere political correctness or reverse racism.

Just as black anger often proved counterproductive, so have these white resentments distracted attention from the real culprits of the middle class squeeze - a corporate culture rife with inside dealing, questionable accounting practices, and short-term greed; a Washington dominated by lobbyists and special interests; economic policies that favor the few over the many. And yet, to wish away the resentments of white Americans, to label them as misguided or even racist, without recognizing they are grounded in legitimate concerns - this too widens the racial divide, and blocks the path to understanding.

This is where we are right now. It's a racial stalemate we've been stuck in for years. Contrary to the claims of some of my critics, black and white, I have never been so naïve as to believe that we can get beyond our racial divisions in a single election cycle, or with a single candidacy - particularly a candidacy as imperfect as my own.

But I have asserted a firm conviction - a conviction rooted in my faith in God and my faith in the American people - that working together we can move beyond some of our old racial wounds, and that in fact we have no choice is we are to continue on the path of a more perfect union.

For the African-American community, that path means embracing the burdens of our past without becoming victims of our past. It means continuing to insist on a full measure of justice in every aspect of American life. But it also means binding our particular grievances - for better health care, and better schools, and better jobs - to the larger aspirations of all Americans -- the white woman struggling to break the glass ceiling, the white man whose been laid off, the immigrant trying to feed his family. And it means taking full responsibility for own lives - by demanding more from our fathers, and spending more time with our children, and reading to them, and teaching them that while they may face challenges and discrimination in their own lives, they must never succumb to despair or cynicism; they must always believe that they can write their own destiny.

Ironically, this quintessentially American - and yes, conservative - notion of self-help found frequent expression in Reverend Wright's sermons. But what my former pastor too often failed to understand is that embarking on a program of self-help also requires a belief that society can change.

The profound mistake of Reverend Wright's sermons is not that he spoke about racism in our society. It's that he spoke as if our society was static; as if no progress has been made; as if this country - a country that has made it possible for one of his own members to run for the highest office in the land and build a coalition of white and black; Latino and Asian, rich and poor, young and old -- is still irrevocably bound to a tragic past. But what we know -- what we have seen - is that America can change. That is true genius of this nation. What we have already achieved gives us hope - the audacity to hope - for what we can and must achieve tomorrow.

In the white community, the path to a more perfect union means acknowledging that what ails the African-American community does not just exist in the minds of black people; that the legacy of discrimination - and current incidents of discrimination, while less overt than in the past - are real and must be addressed. Not just with words, but with deeds - by investing in our schools and our communities; by enforcing our civil rights laws and ensuring fairness in our criminal justice system; by providing this generation with ladders of opportunity that were unavailable for previous generations. It requires all Americans to realize that your dreams do not have to come at the expense of my dreams; that investing in the health, welfare, and education of black and brown and white children will ultimately help all of America prosper.

In the end, then, what is called for is nothing more, and nothing less, than what all the world's great religions demand - that we do unto others as we would have them do unto us. Let us be our brother's keeper, Scripture tells us. Let us be our sister's keeper. Let us find that common stake we all have in one another, and let our politics reflect that spirit as well.

For we have a choice in this country. We can accept a politics that breeds division, and conflict, and cynicism. We can tackle race only as spectacle - as we did in the OJ trial - or in the wake of tragedy, as we did in the aftermath of Katrina - or as fodder for the nightly news. We can play Reverend Wright's sermons on every channel, every day and talk about them from now until the election, and make the only question in this campaign whether or not the American people think that I somehow believe or sympathize with his most offensive words. We can pounce on some gaffe by a Hillary supporter as evidence that she's playing the race card, or we can speculate on whether white men will all flock to John McCain in the general election regardless of his policies.

We can do that.

But if we do, I can tell you that in the next election, we'll be talking about some other distraction. And then another one. And then another one. And nothing will change.

That is one option. Or, at this moment, in this election, we can come together and say, "Not this time." This time we want to talk about the crumbling schools that are stealing the future of black children and white children and Asian children and Hispanic children and Native American children. This time we want to reject the cynicism that tells us that these kids can't learn; that those kids who don't look like us are somebody else's problem. The children of America are not those kids, they are our kids, and we will not let them fall behind in a 21st century economy. Not this time.

This time we want to talk about how the lines in the Emergency Room are filled with whites and blacks and Hispanics who do not have health care; who don't have the power on their own to overcome the special interests in Washington, but who can take them on if we do it together.

This time we want to talk about the shuttered mills that once provided a decent life for men and women of every race, and the homes for sale that once belonged to Americans from every religion, every region, every walk of life. This time we want to talk about the fact that the real problem is not that someone who doesn't look like you might take your job; it's that the corporation you work for will ship it overseas for nothing more than a profit.

This time we want to talk about the men and women of every color and creed who serve together, and fight together, and bleed together under the same proud flag. We want to talk about how to bring them home from a war that never should've been authorized and never should've been waged, and we want to talk about how we'll show our patriotism by caring for them, and their families, and giving them the benefits they have earned.

I would not be running for President if I didn't believe with all my heart that this is what the vast majority of Americans want for this country. This union may never be perfect, but generation after generation has shown that it can always be perfected. And today, whenever I find myself feeling doubtful or cynical about this possibility, what gives me the most hope is the next generation - the young people whose attitudes and beliefs and openness to change have already made history in this election.

There is one story in particularly that I'd like to leave you with today - a story I told when I had the great honor of speaking on Dr. King's birthday at his home church, Ebenezer Baptist, in Atlanta.

There is a young, twenty-three year old white woman named Ashley Baia who organized for our campaign in Florence, South Carolina. She had been working to organize a mostly African-American community since the beginning of this campaign, and one day she was at a roundtable discussion where everyone went around telling their story and why they were there.

And Ashley said that when she was nine years old, her mother got cancer. And because she had to miss days of work, she was let go and lost her health care. They had to file for bankruptcy, and that's when Ashley decided that she had to do something to help her mom.

She knew that food was one of their most expensive costs, and so Ashley convinced her mother that what she really liked and really wanted to eat more than anything else was mustard and relish sandwiches. Because that was the cheapest way to eat.

She did this for a year until her mom got better, and she told everyone at the roundtable that the reason she joined our campaign was so that she could help the millions of other children in the country who want and need to help their parents too.

Now Ashley might have made a different choice. Perhaps somebody told her along the way that the source of her mother's problems were blacks who were on welfare and too lazy to work, or Hispanics who were coming into the country illegally. But she didn't. She sought out allies in her fight against injustice.

Anyway, Ashley finishes her story and then goes around the room and asks everyone else why they're supporting the campaign. They all have different stories and reasons. Many bring up a specific issue. And finally they come to this elderly black man who's been sitting there quietly the entire time. And Ashley asks him why he's there. And he does not bring up a specific issue. He does not say health care or the economy. He does not say education or the war. He does not say that he was there because of Barack Obama. He simply says to everyone in the room, "I am here because of Ashley."

"I'm here because of Ashley." By itself, that single moment of recognition between that young white girl and that old black man is not enough. It is not enough to give health care to the sick, or jobs to the jobless, or education to our children.

But it is where we start. It is where our union grows stronger. And as so many generations have come to realize over the course of the two-hundred and twenty one years since a band of patriots signed that document in Philadelphia, that is where the perfection begins.
© 2008 MSNBC Interactive

[THE FEZ MAN]

there all full of shit, im still voteing for him, unless hillary gets the nod, then im voteing for kooky mc cain

[wes mantooth]

Obama thinks black racists should get a pass. What a shocker.

No mold-breaker here folks, move along.

[THE FEZ MAN]

Obama thinks black racists should get a pass. What a shocker.

No mold-breaker here folks, move along.

and....... you put an oil man in the white house and oil company's show record profits.......


while the rest of the country goes into the shitter

[wes mantooth]

and....... you put an oil man in the white house and oil company's show record profits.......


while the rest of the country goes into the shitter


You're right, vote for Obama and oil prices will go down. Good luck with that.

[Voss's Tumor]

You're right, vote for Obama and oil prices will go down. Good luck with that.

I think his point was that they're all the same type of piece of shit, and we let it happen.

[Vyce]

He's a hypocrite, but they all are.

I'm sorry, but this isn't a "everyone else is doing it" discussion.

It's about OBAMA's blatant hypocrisy.

But since you brought it up: thank you for fully admitting that Obama is just as big of a piece of shit as every other fucking politician out there.

It's actually important to note that, because there are fucking rubes out there who still believe that somehow he's above the fray and he's DIFFERENT, by god.

[Sinn Fein]

Exactly. This picture is being painted that Obama is different than every other politician when he's just like every single one of them.

[LiddyRules]

But since you brought it up: thank you for fully admitting that Obama is just as big of a piece of shit as every other fucking politician out there. I've always said that. I don't think I ever once defended Obama or said he didn't fit the political mold.

[Voss's Tumor]

It's actually important to note that, because there are fucking rubes out there who still believe that somehow he's above the fray and he's DIFFERENT, by god.

This really is the point, fucking Carnies and rubes... Bennington/Whatley '08.

[THE FEZ MAN]

I think his point was that they're all the same type of piece of shit, and we let it happen.


yes that is the point, there all shit bags that are useless for almost anything, thats why they go into politics, every single one of them is a fucking lier and a hypocrite

[wes mantooth]

So since Obama is just like all the other politicians can we all agree he is not going to change anything?

[mascan42]

Politics and religion: you pick which load of shit you want to believe in, and that's your load of shit.

[LiddyRules]

So since Obama is just like all the other politicians can we all agree he is not going to change anything? Again, I've been saying that for months.

Politics and religion: you pick which load of shit you want to believe in, and that's your load of shit. The difference is we're supposed to have a say in politics. And politics is a lot more fun. Politics is more like sports and religion is more like literature.

[RMM46]

Exactly. This picture is being painted that Obama is different than every other politician when he's just like every single one of them.

Nooo!!!!!!!! He's not a politician!!! He's a Messaianic figure!!!! He's going to zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

[Vyce]

I've always said that. I don't think I ever once defended Obama or said he didn't fit the political mold.

I apologize if that's the impression you got, but no, I wasn't attributing that to you.

I'm saying: I actually know a LOT of people who are so drunk on Obama's koolaid that they really think he's DIFFERENT. He's not. He's just a lot more shrewd than he's given credit for, which is how he's been able - until recently - to work this facade that he's not the same politician as the rest of them. Well, turns out, he is, and anyone who thinks otherwise is deluding themselves.

[Voss's Tumor]

I apologize if that's the impression you got, but no, I wasn't attributing that to you.

I'm saying: I actually know a LOT of people who are so drunk on Obama's koolaid that they really think he's DIFFERENT. He's not. He's just a lot more shrewd than he's given credit for, which is how he's been able - until recently - to work this facade that he's not the same politician as the rest of them. Well, turns out, he is, and anyone who thinks otherwise is deluding themselves.

QFT

[Ballbuster1]

I'm saying: I actually know a LOT of people who are so drunk on Obama's koolaid that they really think he's DIFFERENT. He's not. He's just a lot more shrewd than he's given credit for, which is how he's been able - until recently - to work this facade that he's not the same politician as the rest of them. Well, turns out, he is, and anyone who thinks otherwise is deluding themselves.
So true. He's bullshitting alot of people.

[THE FEZ MAN]

So true. He's bullshitting alot of people.

like a used car sales man. its great, to watch a bull shit artist work his magic is like listening to a symphony.

[DC Chick]

Are this about comparing Imus to Wright? Or just their comments? I don't think FCC/Corporate censorship rules apply to religious sermons.

Obama is a Democrat, they don't have to rack up religious endorsements like the Republicans. If it weren't for the Muslim rumors, I don't Obama religion (or his pastor) would be that big a news story.

Two people say "inappropriate" things about other races. One is a tv/radio host you may have met a few times, the other is the reverend that married you and your wife. You might cut one of them a little more slack.

[THE FEZ MAN]

Are this about comparing Imus to Wright? Or just their comments? I don't think FCC/Corporate censorship rules apply to religious sermons.

Obama is a Democrat, they don't have to rack up religious endorsements like the Republicans. If it weren't for the Muslim rumors, I don't Obama religion (or his pastor) would be that big a news story.

Two people say "inappropriate" things about other races. One is a tv/radio host you may have met a few times, the other is the reverend that married you and your wife. You might cut one of them a little more slack.

exactly that and after a while of listening to someones bullshit you just ignore it, for years ive listened to my mother spout off about this or that and just ignore it, same with the guy that i work for, but if some asshole in a bar were to say the same thing to me i would be "upset" or "disturbed"

[South Jersey]

39 posts and no sign of Zona. "whaa"

Can't take this long to come up with a witty remark or dick joke.

[LiddyRules]

39 posts and no sign of Zona. "whaa"

Can't take this long to come up with a witty remark or dick joke.

*sheepishly* I tried to make a funny

He's a hypocrite, but they all are. I really just don't care about this at all. I see this is as a non-issue. Is it interesting to see how he handles this? Yes. But do I fear that because of this guy Obama has plans to put all white people in chains? Definitely.

[Voss's Tumor]

39 posts and no sign of Zona. "whaa"

Can't take this long to come up with a witty remark or dick joke.

haha, I love that I'm not the only one who says these things.

[Vyce]

Are this about comparing Imus to Wright? Or just their comments? I don't think FCC/Corporate censorship rules apply to religious sermons.

You're missing the point. Obama called for the firing of Imus, because apparently "nappy-headed ho", told in a comedic context, was just so horrible it deserved his career ending (for the time at any rate).

At the same time, he was still chumming around with a guy who regularly got up at his pulpit and preached anti-American, racist bullshit that was 100 times worse than Imus ever said, and the guy wasn't doing a comedy routine, he fucking MEANT it.

That is, bottom line, hypocrisy on Obama's part, and he deserves to get called on it.

Obama is a Democrat, they don't have to rack up religious endorsements like the Republicans. If it weren't for the Muslim rumors, I don't Obama religion (or his pastor) would be that big a news story.

That's where you'd be wrong. This wasn't just "oh, some guy Obama knows said some wacky things". The man was his spiritual and, by Obama's own admission, POLITICAL adviser. And the man's basically a huge fucking racist who legit believes some of the crazier black guy conspiracy theories. Obama could be president - we can't have fucking lunatics like this guy with the President's ear. I mean, isn't that Anthony's fear? That if Obama is president, this is EXACTLY the sort of guy who's going to be legitimized?

[sobi]

All the hidden racist hard ons around here are cute, but I'm sure it'll get old soon.

[Voss's Tumor]

That if Obama is president, this is EXACTLY the sort of guy who's going to be legitimized?

That's just crazy talk dude!

http://www.caricaturesbylisa.com/images/Al%20Sharpton.jpg

[Glenn Dandy]

In the immortal words of our true leader... DOOMED, FUCKING , DOOMED!

[Razor Roman]

hey razor, do you have audio of Wright making fun of Tiger Woods 'swinging his cablasian hips and needs to be beat.' that gave me a chuckle when I heard it on hannity

I dont mind Obama. but everyone around him is nuts.

I don't have them, but I did hear it and it made me loff too

and....... you put an oil man in the white house and oil company's show record profits.......
while the rest of the country goes into the shitter

The oil companies have record profits cause we are at record consumption... and get this --- they are paying RECORD TAXES on those RECORD PROFITS... and also the little old ladies who own energy stocks are also making a fortune.

Oil prices are sky high because of demand, the weak dollar, and lack of production facilities... nothing to do with "oil man" Bush. He's also a former Baseball owner, you gonna blame high ticket prices on him too? And we've had a Democratic congress for over a year now, what have they done, other than talk about raising gas taxes?

I'm sorry, but this isn't a "everyone else is doing it" discussion.

It's about OBAMA's blatant hypocrisy.

But since you brought it up: thank you for fully admitting that Obama is just as big of a piece of shit as every other fucking politician out there.

It's actually important to note that, because there are fucking rubes out there who still believe that somehow he's above the fray and he's DIFFERENT, by god.

Really good piece on Obama and how he's different - in approach - by Shelby Steele the other day... I gotta try to find it.

Was watching O'Reilley's replay this AM at the gym and someone actually wrote him an email saying "you have no right to criticize what Wright is saying, because you are White. You don't understand and that makes you racist."

WTF? Isn't racisim saying someone can't do something because of the color of their skin????

[Razor Roman]

The Obama Bargain
By SHELBY STEELE
March 18, 2008; Page A23

Geraldine Ferraro may have had sinister motives when she said that Barack Obama would not be "in his position" as a frontrunner but for his race. Possibly she was acting as Hillary Clinton's surrogate. Or maybe she was simply befuddled by this new reality -- in which blackness could constitute a political advantage.

But whatever her motives, she was right: "If Obama was a white man, he would not be in this position." Barack Obama is, of course, a very talented politician with a first-rate political organization at his back. But it does not detract from his merit to say that his race is also a large part of his prominence. And it is undeniable that something extremely powerful in the body politic, a force quite apart from the man himself, has pulled Obama forward. This force is about race and nothing else.

The novelty of Barack Obama is more his cross-racial appeal than his talent. Jesse Jackson displayed considerable political talent in his presidential runs back in the 1980s. But there was a distinct limit to his white support. Mr. Obama's broad appeal to whites makes him the first plausible black presidential candidate in American history. And it was Mr. Obama's genius to understand this. Though he likes to claim that his race was a liability to be overcome, he also surely knew that his race could give him just the edge he needed -- an edge that would never be available to a white, not even a white woman.

How to turn one's blackness to advantage?

The answer is that one "bargains." Bargaining is a mask that blacks can wear in the American mainstream, one that enables them to put whites at their ease. This mask diffuses the anxiety that goes along with being white in a multiracial society. Bargainers make the subliminal promise to whites not to shame them with America's history of racism, on the condition that they will not hold the bargainer's race against him. And whites love this bargain -- and feel affection for the bargainer -- because it gives them racial innocence in a society where whites live under constant threat of being stigmatized as racist. So the bargainer presents himself as an opportunity for whites to experience racial innocence.

This is how Mr. Obama has turned his blackness into his great political advantage, and also into a kind of personal charisma. Bargainers are conduits of white innocence, and they are as popular as the need for white innocence is strong. Mr. Obama's extraordinary dash to the forefront of American politics is less a measure of the man than of the hunger in white America for racial innocence.

His actual policy positions are little more than Democratic Party boilerplate and hardly a tick different from Hillary's positions. He espouses no galvanizing political idea. He is unable to say what he means by "change" or "hope" or "the future." And he has failed to say how he would actually be a "unifier." By the evidence of his slight political record (130 "present" votes in the Illinois state legislature, little achievement in the U.S. Senate) Barack Obama stacks up as something of a mediocrity. None of this matters much.

Race helps Mr. Obama in another way -- it lifts his political campaign to the level of allegory, making it the stuff of a far higher drama than budget deficits and education reform. His dark skin, with its powerful evocations of America's tortured racial past, frames the political contest as a morality play. Will his victory mean America's redemption from its racist past? Will his defeat show an America morally unevolved? Is his campaign a story of black overcoming, an echo of the civil rights movement? Or is it a passing-of-the-torch story, of one generation displacing another?

Because he is black, there is a sense that profound questions stand to be resolved in the unfolding of his political destiny. And, as the Clintons have discovered, it is hard in the real world to run against a candidate of destiny. For many Americans -- black and white -- Barack Obama is simply too good (and too rare) an opportunity to pass up. For whites, here is the opportunity to document their deliverance from the shames of their forbearers. And for blacks, here is the chance to document the end of inferiority. So the Clintons have found themselves running more against America's very highest possibilities than against a man. And the press, normally happy to dispel every political pretension, has all but quivered before Mr. Obama. They, too, have feared being on the wrong side of destiny.

And yet, in the end, Barack Obama's candidacy is not qualitatively different from Al Sharpton's or Jesse Jackson's. Like these more irascible of his forbearers, Mr. Obama's run at the presidency is based more on the manipulation of white guilt than on substance. Messrs. Sharpton and Jackson were "challengers," not bargainers. They intimidated whites and demanded, in the name of historical justice, that they be brought forward. Mr. Obama flatters whites, grants them racial innocence, and hopes to ascend on the back of their gratitude. Two sides of the same coin.

But bargainers have an Achilles heel. They succeed as conduits of white innocence only as long as they are largely invisible as complex human beings. They hope to become icons that can be identified with rather than seen, and their individual complexity gets in the way of this. So bargainers are always laboring to stay invisible. (We don't know the real politics or convictions of Tiger Woods or Michael Jordan or Oprah Winfrey, bargainers all.) Mr. Obama has said of himself, "I serve as a blank screen on which people of vastly different political stripes project their own views . . ." And so, human visibility is Mr. Obama's Achilles heel. If we see the real man, his contradictions and bents of character, he will be ruined as an icon, as a "blank screen."

Thus, nothing could be more dangerous to Mr. Obama's political aspirations than the revelation that he, the son of a white woman, sat Sunday after Sunday -- for 20 years -- in an Afrocentric, black nationalist church in which his own mother, not to mention other whites, could never feel comfortable. His pastor, Rev. Jeremiah Wright, is a challenger who goes far past Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson in his anti-American outrage ("God damn America").

How does one "transcend" race in this church? The fact is that Barack Obama has fellow-traveled with a hate-filled, anti-American black nationalism all his adult life, failing to stand and challenge an ideology that would have no place for his own mother. And what portent of presidential judgment is it to have exposed his two daughters for their entire lives to what is, at the very least, a subtext of anti-white vitriol?

What could he have been thinking? Of course he wasn't thinking. He was driven by insecurity, by a need to "be black" despite his biracial background. And so fellow-traveling with a little race hatred seemed a small price to pay for a more secure racial identity. And anyway, wasn't this hatred more rhetorical than real?

But now the floodlight of a presidential campaign has trained on this usually hidden corner of contemporary black life: a mindless indulgence in a rhetorical anti-Americanism as a way of bonding and of asserting one's blackness. Yet Jeremiah Wright, splashed across America's television screens, has shown us that there is no real difference between rhetorical hatred and real hatred.

No matter his ultimate political fate, there is already enough pathos in Barack Obama to make him a cautionary tale. His public persona thrives on a manipulation of whites (bargaining), and his private sense of racial identity demands both self-betrayal and duplicity. His is the story of a man who flew so high, yet neglected to become himself.

Mr. Steele, a research fellow at Stanford University's Hoover Institution and the author of "A Bound Man: Why We Are Excited About Obama and Why He Can't Win" (Free Press, 2007).

Full text is in spoilers.... but here's a gyst

Because he is black, there is a sense that profound questions stand to be resolved in the unfolding of his political destiny. And, as the Clintons have discovered, it is hard in the real world to run against a candidate of destiny. For many Americans -- black and white -- Barack Obama is simply too good (and too rare) an opportunity to pass up. For whites, here is the opportunity to document their deliverance from the shames of their forbearers. And for blacks, here is the chance to document the end of inferiority. So the Clintons have found themselves running more against America's very highest possibilities than against a man. And the press, normally happy to dispel every political pretension, has all but quivered before Mr. Obama. They, too, have feared being on the wrong side of destiny.

And yet, in the end, Barack Obama's candidacy is not qualitatively different from Al Sharpton's or Jesse Jackson's. Like these more irascible of his forbearers, Mr. Obama's run at the presidency is based more on the manipulation of white guilt than on substance. Messrs. Sharpton and Jackson were "challengers," not bargainers. They intimidated whites and demanded, in the name of historical justice, that they be brought forward. Mr. Obama flatters whites, grants them racial innocence, and hopes to ascend on the back of their gratitude. Two sides of the same coin.

But bargainers have an Achilles heel. They succeed as conduits of white innocence only as long as they are largely invisible as complex human beings. They hope to become icons that can be identified with rather than seen, and their individual complexity gets in the way of this. So bargainers are always laboring to stay invisible. (We don't know the real politics or convictions of Tiger Woods or Michael Jordan or Oprah Winfrey, bargainers all.) Mr. Obama has said of himself, "I serve as a blank screen on which people of vastly different political stripes project their own views . . ." And so, human visibility is Mr. Obama's Achilles heel. If we see the real man, his contradictions and bents of character, he will be ruined as an icon, as a "blank screen."

[Goober]

Figures

[Vyce]

For many Americans -- black and white -- Barack Obama is simply too good (and too rare) an opportunity to pass up. For whites, here is the opportunity to document their deliverance from the shames of their forbearers. And for blacks, here is the chance to document the end of inferiority.

I read that piece by Shelby the other day and it is indeed a good article. Accurate too. It all boils down to this: black people are going to be dumb motherfuckers like Earl who just vote for the guy because of his skin color.

Obama is counting on white guilt to deliver him the white vote.

But then of course, there are people like me, who have no white guilt, and certainly no shame for their forebearers.

[MrBogey]

and....... you put an oil man in the white house and oil company's show record profits.......


while the rest of the country goes into the shitter

So you believe that the president can control the price of oil on the international market?

[Razor Roman]

So you believe that the president can control the price of oil on the international market?

it was Cheney's energy bill meetings Maaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa n.

[TheTruth]

If the democrats found out that McCain passed a white supremist on the street they would crucify him as a racist.

[Fr. Dougal]

http://img.timeinc.net/time/photoessays/2007/harkin_steak_fry/harkin_steak_fry_08.jpg

[Vyce]

Fuck you, Democrats, I've got FIVE bars.

[Voss's Tumor]

So you believe that the president can control the price of oil on the international market?

Supply and demand is a powerful market mover, and the USA has a lot of demand.

The President can control the 20 Billion or so in government subsidies given to Exxon Mobile last year during their period of record profits, and not only record profits, but record profit margins. I think 65% profit margins, while gas in my home town was $3+ a gallon all year.

This is not conspiracy theory, this shit actually happened and is well documented. In fact, I'm pretty sure Bush threatened to veto a bill because it had a line item to stop subsidies to Exxon Mobile and he refused to allow that to happen.

I don't remember too well though considering it was a throw away news story and Sunjaya or whatever was more important to cover, so it just went away. It happened though.

Edit: And when I say "Record" profits and margins, I mean higher profits than any other type of company in the history of the world. Seriously.

[MrBogey]

We shouldn't be subsidizing any mega-business. But cut away those profits and you saved a few bucks. Not worth it.

[Begbie]

http://img.timeinc.net/time/photoessays/2007/harkin_steak_fry/harkin_steak_fry_08.jpg

HAHA! What a dope.

Even Cuntrag is paying attention.

[THE FEZ MAN]

Supply and demand is a powerful market mover, and the USA has a lot of demand.

The President can control the 20 Billion or so in government subsidies given to Exxon Mobile last year during their period of record profits, and not only record profits, but record profit margins. I think 65% profit margins, while gas in my home town was $3+ a gallon all year.

This is not conspiracy theory, this shit actually happened and is well documented. In fact, I'm pretty sure Bush threatened to veto a bill because it had a line item to stop subsidies to Exxon Mobile and he refused to allow that to happen.

I don't remember too well though considering it was a throw away news story and Sunjaya or whatever was more important to cover, so it just went away. It happened though.

Edit: And when I say "Record" profits and margins, I mean higher profits than any other type of company in the history of the world. Seriously.

http://img.timeinc.net/time/photoessays/2007/harkin_steak_fry/harkin_steak_fry_08.jpg

that about covers it, on the oil thing.

as for the hand over the heart..... its a fucking symbol, get over it. if someone chooses not to cover there heart so be it its there RIGHT under the first amendment. i choose not to say "under god" while pledging to the flag, but i do take my hat off.

[LiddyRules]

http://img.timeinc.net/time/photoessays/2007/harkin_steak_fry/harkin_steak_fry_08.jpg Really? You really think this means anything? Hand over heart for a silly song?

[BloodyDiaper]

I think the hand over the heart during the national anthem thing died out a while ago - based on the last 20 or so years of attending baseball games around the country.

[Sinn Fein]

i choose not to say "under god" while pledging to the flag, but i do take my hat off.

Under what circumstances are you reciting the Pledge of Allegiance?

[THE FEZ MAN]

i still take my hat off and hold it over my heart, that is how i choose to show my patriotism, if some one else choses not to so be it, he was standing... thats quite frankly good enough for me, really the pettiness of such an issue is mind boggling to me.

[THE FEZ MAN]

Under what circumstances are you reciting the Pledge of Allegiance?

there are several "organizations" that i attend meetings for that recite the pledge before the meeting comes to order, also since i turned 13 and was given the choice to attend catholic church. i am a filthy atheist

[South Jersey]

I think the hand over the heart during the national anthem thing died out a while ago - based on the last 20 or so years of attending baseball games around the country.

I could give a shit about some Yankee fan not putting down his beer so he can put his hand over his heart. When I vote for someone to serve me in a elected office that person better have his loyalties and respect for my country as a top priority. Yes that means wearing a flag pin like 99 other senators and properly saluting the flag during the national anthem.

Obama is something worse than a Muslim, he's a marxist socialist who's resentment for this country is slowly creeping out.

[THE FEZ MAN]

I could give a shit about some Yankee fan not putting down his beer so he can put his hand over his heart. When I vote for someone to serve me in a elected office that person better have his loyalties and respect to my country as a top priority. Yes that means wearing a flag pin like 99 other senators and properly saluting the flag during the national anthem.

Obama is something worse than a Muslim, he's a marxist socialist who's resentment for this country is slowly creeping out.

i love how someones individual rights of expression turns into treason......


this is a hypothetical question, and does not refer to obama but to ones rights to express them selves and there opinion of the state of our country


a man serves his country with honers, spends his life serving the community, and flys an american flag every day as specified buy the "rules" of displaying the american flag, yet every flag day and fourth of july he hangs his flag upside down in protest of the way that his country is being run, does that make him any less of a patriot?

[South Jersey]

this is a hypothetical question, and does not refer to obama but to ones rights to express them selves and there opinion of the state of our country

Sorry, Obama is the topic at hand here. This is not a first amendment discussion.

He was elected to the United States Senate. He took an oath to defend this country. Unlike that batshit, racist, ****** minister of his he does not have the right to crap on the country that afforded him the American dream. Him and his cunt wife are a couple of ungrateful barely closeted Marxists.

Oh yeah, I was born in that socialist utopia called Cuba. Hang a Cuban flag upside down over there and see where you'll wind up.

[THE FEZ MAN]

and not hold your hand over your heart for a song and see if you become president

[LiddyRules]

loyalties and respect for my country as a top priority. Yes that means wearing a flag pin like 99 other senators and properly saluting the flag during the national anthem. A pin and putting your hand over your heart for a ditty, to you, honestly shows loyalty and respect for this county? Empty, hollow gestures. You can't be serious.

[THE FEZ MAN]

A pin and putting your hand over your heart for a ditty, to you, honestly shows loyalty and respect for this county? Empty, hollow gestures. You can't be serious.

exactly my point. there hollow gestures, nothing more that symbols, what is more significant, holding your hand over your heart, or trying to bring the hope prosperity back to the average joe?

[LiddyRules]

I'm not even an Obama fan but as a general rule, how can we hope for any actual good to happen in politics when people are still holding such weak, empty (I can't say that adjective enough) symbols in such a high regard. We all complain that the political race is more style and no substance. And then you go, find a picture of a candidate with his hand not over his heart in front of a flag, and act as though this proves everything about the candidate.

There are plenty of reasons not to like him or trust him but this?

[BloodyDiaper]

It's not like Obama was making the jack-off gesture with his hands during the star spangled banner.

[DonTheTrucker]

The 527 groups are going to tear Obama a new asshole if he ends up as the candidate. He's the only person that could have more skeletons in his closet than Hillary.

Hope you all like your presidents liberal Republicans with 40% arm mobility, bacause that's what you're gonna get.

[BIV]

You're trying to be president of the United States...put your fucking hand over your heart.

[Fr. Dougal]

Really? You really think this means anything? Hand over heart for a silly song?

It means showing respect to the Country that's given you the opportunity to be running for It's leader.

You consider the national anthem of your Country "a silly song?" :icon_eek:

US CODE TITLE 36, Subtitle I, Part A, CHAPTER 3
§ 301. National anthem

(a) Designation.— The composition consisting of the words and music known as the Star-Spangled Banner is the national anthem.
(b) Conduct During Playing.— During a rendition of the national anthem—
(1) when the flag is displayed—
(B) men not in uniform should remove their headdress with their right hand and hold the headdress at the left shoulder, the hand being over the heart;

Sure, say "oh it's a silly rule"... but it's a sign of respect, and you'd think someone running FOR PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES would at the very least follow the guidelines set forth.

[Capt.Caveman]

http://img.timeinc.net/time/photoessays/2007/harkin_steak_fry/harkin_steak_fry_08.jpg

yes it is that important. it shows a complete lack of respect for the flag, the national anthem, and every man who died protecting this country. THE LEADER OF THE COUNTRY SHOULD PUT HIS FUCKIN HAND ON HIS HEART. if you can't understand that then i don't know what to tell you. your a cunt and should kill yourself

[Treat_Yourself]

I'm proud of living in a country where you can choose not to wear a flag pin and not to put your hand over your heart during the national anthem. I'm also proud that all of us are free to judge a person by his behavior during the national anthem and choose not to elect him to public office.

[Stormrider666]

I'm proud of living in a country where you can choose not to wear a flag pin and not to put your hand over your heart during the national anthem. I'm also proud that all of us are free to judge a person by his behavior during the national anthem and choose not to elect him to public office.

That sums it up. I mean we are not living in Nazi Germany. However lets be honest, people making this complaint about Obama not holding is hand over his heart, were not going to vote for him in the first place.

[Vyce]

Probably not. But now those people feel a little more justified in their decision, no?

[LiddyRules]

I'm proud of living in a country where you can choose not to wear a flag pin and not to put your hand over your heart during the national anthem. I'm also proud that all of us are free to judge a person by his behavior during the national anthem and choose not to elect him to public office.

That sums it up. I mean we are not living in Nazi Germany. However lets be honest, people making this complaint about Obama not holding is hand over his heart, were not going to vote for him in the first place.

Probably not. But now those people feel a little more justified in their decision, no?

Yes to all three.

[nikoloslvy]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stormrider666 View Post
, were not going to vote for him in the first place.

im so sick of this fucking argument.sorry.

[Zona992006]

Barack Obama, in the beginning of his speech today disavowed the statements made by Wright. He did also this past Friday. I mean I don't know what else people want from Obama. What take Wright out back and shoot him. If anybody heard the speech today, there is no way in hell you can compare Obama to Sharpton. I was a supporter of Imus and thought he got a raw deal, however in the grand scheme of things, I'm still supporting Barack.

:clap:

[nikoloslvy]

hey razor, do you have audio of Wright making fun of Tiger Woods 'swinging his cablasian hips and needs to be beat.' that gave me a chuckle when I heard it on hannity

I dont mind Obama. but everyone around him is nuts.

i have em.i dont know how to send em.pm me.

ohhh and this if it hasn't been posted yet.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OgtIqeV-6mk&feature=related

guess im gonna have to give him slack huh huckaphony.guess i just dont understand huh obama.

[nikoloslvy]

:clap:

yeah its not a problem that he choose that church for twenty years.its not a problem that he brought his daughters to listen to that bastion of hate.its not a problem that he first said he never herd it.its not a problem that in his speech he basically defended a racist and decided to talk about race in America.no problem.hes wonderful.

[Zona992006]

It means showing respect to the Country that's given you the opportunity to be running for It's leader.

You consider the national anthem of your Country "a silly song?" :icon_eek:



Sure, say "oh it's a silly rule"... but it's a sign of respect, and you'd think someone running FOR PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES would at the very least follow the guidelines set forth.

http://assets.espn.go.com/media/pg2/2005/1206/photo/051206_roseanne_275.jpg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JvPAMn_nVps

[Ballbuster1]

http://assets.espn.go.com/media/pg2/2005/1206/photo/051206_roseanne_275.jpg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JvPAMn_nVps
She was a cunt for doing that. Look what that did for her career.
Haven't seen or heard of her in a long time.

[wes mantooth]

http://assets.espn.go.com/media/pg2/2005/1206/photo/051206_roseanne_275.jpg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JvPAMn_nVps



She's not running for President.

[Capt.Caveman]

if bush did this it would be another story wouldn't it.

[BloodyDiaper]

This hand over the heart thing is just the right wing version of political correctness, - the more pissing and moaning they do about it the more they look like a bunch of faggots.

[DonTheTrucker]

This hand over the heart thing is just the right wing version of political correctness, - the more pissing and moaning they do about it the more they look like a bunch of faggots.

It's called ettiquette (http://www.usflag.org/flagetiquette.html) and that's what separates us from the animals who tie bombs to dogs and retards to blow up schools. You wouldn't fart or belch at a dinner table right? Same thing, it's just a small show of respect. What's so wrong with showing respect?

[mendozathejew]

I have liked Obama as a candidate. I could get past all of the individual personal negatives about him- his C of a wife that hasnt been proud of the country, his che poster in a texas office, the hand over the heart and american flag pins, even his waste of oxygen asshole pastor.

but they are adding up. if everything about his platform and presentation is true and sincere, why is he surrounded almost entirely by assholes who contradict what he is running on?

[Three Hole Puncher]

Spin this "Obama's honky-hatin' pastor" situation however you want, but the reality is that Pastor Jeremiah done cooked Obama's goose.

It's over, Johnny.

It's like I've always said... The black community in America are like crabs in a bucket, every time one of their own tries to rise above and crawl out of the bucket, the rest reach up and pull him back down.

[Schmed]

A good number of liberals in NY are of Jewish persuasion, I cannot understand how, in their right minds, they can support someone like Obama. The angry black man HATES the Jew with a passion not seen since Nazi, Germany.

[mendozathejew]

Spin this "Obama's honky-hatin' pastor" situation however you want, but the reality is that Pastor Jeremiah done cooked Obama's goose.

It's over, Johnny.

It's like I've always said... The black community in America are like crabs in a bucket, every time one of their own tries to rise above and crawl out of the bucket, the rest reach up and pull him back down.

all this lunatic had to do was shut his mouth. the media all had the tapes of his rantings, and were not going to do a thing with it. and in a week where both campaigns had to dump people because of unpopular comments, the rev just had to chime in. you are right, this guy had to try to fuck it up for Obama, and he did.

[Three Hole Puncher]

all this lunatic had to do was shut his mouth. the media all had the tapes of his rantings, and were not going to do a thing with it. and in a week where both campaigns had to dump people because of unpopular comments, the rev just had to chime in. you are right, this guy had to try to fuck it up for Obama, and he did.

The killer here...

the black community has PLENTY of real examples of victimization and oppression at the hands of whitey to bitch about, but NOOOOOO... they get so zealous in playing the victim role that they have to go make up outlandish shit...

Whitey "invented" AIDS as a tool of black genocide?

Jesus Henry Christ on a Saltine... it'd be comical if it weren't so fucking sad... if the right Reverend Wright didn't have 5000 parishioners yelling back, "Das da troof!" and "Testify Rebrint!" when he spouted this crap... you could almost laugh it off. But I doubt a single person in his "flock" stood up, and walked the fuck out of his church, never to return, when he preached this horse shit... and THAT is why this is no laughing matter.

[Capt.Caveman]

This hand over the heart thing is just the right wing version of political correctness, - the more pissing and moaning they do about it the more they look like a bunch of faggots.

is it.

[Three Hole Puncher]

This hand over the heart thing is just the right wing version of political correctness, - the more pissing and moaning they do about it the more they look like a bunch of faggots. Dude... just go find an American flag, and wipe your ass with it... you know you want to. Just think how impressed your Myspace friends will be when you post the video on Youtube.

[mendozathejew]

The killer here...

the black community has PLENTY of real examples of victimization and oppression at the hands of whitey to bitch about, but NOOOOOO... they get so zealous in playing the victim role that they have to go make up outlandish shit...

Whitey "invented" AIDS as a tool of black genocide?

as if the aids wouldnt have predictably spread to chubby white girls then the rest of us. its not even a good conspiracy theory

[wes mantooth]

but they are adding up. if everything about his platform and presentation is true and sincere, why is he surrounded almost entirely by assholes who contradict what he is running on?


This is a very good point.


Obama can condemn the message and not the messenger but when you've surrounded yourself with this hate the message becomes a part of people's perception of you no matter how much inclusion you preach. At this point I'm glad he's the Dem's choice over Hillary.

[DC Chick]

She was a cunt for doing that. Look what that did for her career.
Haven't seen or heard of her in a long time.

The Star Spangled Banner thing happened in 1990, her show stayed on the air until 1997. It did hurt her, but not that much.

Someone else mentioned Obama hating Jews (all Jews or just liberal New York Jews?) with the passion of a 1930's Nazi. Is there any proof of this that can't be found at snopes.com?

[mendozathejew]

The Star Spangled Banner thing happened in 1990, her show stayed on the air until 1997. It did hurt her, but not that much.

Someone else mentioned Obama hating Jews (all Jews or just liberal New York Jews?) with the passion of a 1930's Nazi. Is there any proof of this that can't be found at snopes.com?

he doesnt hate jews, he actually has strong support from jews in Chicago and his platform is very pro israel. but his pastor and other supporters have some jew rants, Wright included.

jews and blacks is either a love or hate relationship. the loudmouths give the relationship a bad name, a reeeeally bad name. but in my experience there is still alot who are just the opposite

but this is the problem with Obama, his platform is starting to contradict alot of of the opinions around him.

[Zona992006]

A good number of liberals in NY are of Jewish persuasion, I cannot understand how, in their right minds, they can support someone like Obama. The angry black man HATES the Jew with a passion not seen since Nazi, Germany.

What the fuck are you talking about? Obama hates Jews as much as the Nazi's? Are you fucking serious?

Jesus, I understand trying to go along with this shit and being sheeple like so many others, but come on..

[ChuckiesChalupa]

Wow Big shock.....His preacher buddy is a scuzz

[nikoloslvy]

What the fuck are you talking about? Obama hates Jews as much as the Nazi's? Are you fucking serious?

Jesus, I understand trying to go along with this shit and being sheeple like so many others, but come on..

did...did...you....did you just say sheeple?....yeach.

http://www.nysun.com/article/62534

Despite Criticism, Obama Stands By Adviser Brzezinski



WASHINGTON — Senator Obama is standing by one of his top foreign policy advisers, Zbigniew Brzezinski, despite concerns that aligning with the former aide to President Carter will undermine Mr. Obama's support with the pro-Israel community.
Mr. Brzezinski, who served as national security adviser in the Carter administration, introduced Mr. Obama before a major policy speech on Iraq yesterday in Iowa, where the Illinois senator praised his work on the Camp David Accords and called him "one of our most outstanding thinkers."
Mr. Obama's embrace of Mr. Brzezinski has angered some supporters of Israel put off by Mr. Brzezinski's criticism of the Jewish state in recent years and his praise for the authors of a book that condemns the influence of the "Israel lobby." Mr. Obama's campaign has disavowed the book, "The Israel Lobby and U.S. Foreign Policy," by John Mearsheimer and Stephen Walt.
A Harvard law professor and supporter of Senator Clinton, Alan Dershowitz, said Tuesday that Mr. Obama had "made a terrible mistake" by aligning with Mr. Brzezinski.
A spokeswoman for the Obama campaign, Jennifer Psaki, yesterday pointed to the fact that Messrs. Brzezinski and Obama both opposed the Iraq war from the beginning, unlike Mrs. Clinton, and she suggested the Clinton camp was trying to smear Mr. Brzezinski.
Given Mr. Brzezinski's opposition to the war, she said, "It's not terribly surprising that those who embraced the war would try to discredit him now." Ms. Psaki added: "Barack Obama has a strong record in support of a secure Israel and he will continue to foster a strong U.S.-Israel relationship when he is in the White House."
The Clinton campaign declined comment.

[Vyce]

he doesnt hate jews, he actually has strong support from jews in Chicago and his platform is very pro israel.

Mendoza, I respect your opinon here on this board, but in this I think you're misguided. This is another one of the situations where Obama's actions don't back up the words that come out of his mouth.

You can say that he has a "pro-Israel platform", but I'm left wondering why so very, very many of his foreign policy advisers are either 1) shamelessly pro-Arab sympathizers or 2) anti-Israel, some to the point where it's not out of line to question whether they're just flat-out anti-semitic.

This is one of the areas where I have grave misgivings about Obama. If elected president, I have preciously little faith that he would do anything for Israel other than throw them under the bus in order to garner favor and sympathy from the various Arab / Muslim states of the Middle East.

[Vyce]

The killer here...

the black community has PLENTY of real examples of victimization and oppression at the hands of whitey to bitch about, but NOOOOOO... they get so zealous in playing the victim role that they have to go make up outlandish shit...

Whitey "invented" AIDS as a tool of black genocide?


You just answered yourself.

Some black folks - not all of them, obviously, not even the majority of them, I would believe, but the Rev. Wright crowd for sure - are so obsessed with their own perceived victimhood that they feel the need to create outlandish theories like that one to continually paint the government (i.e. the "man", i.e. whitey) as a supreme evil keeping them perpetually under its boot heel. It allows them to continue to act the victim instead of take responsibility for any of the problems in the black community.

The problem is, even though most black folks don't buy into that shit, there's a great deal of pressure for them to not really condemn the fools that do, because that would make them traitors, or some such nonsense.

[ChuckiesChalupa]

It all comes down to the fact that Obama can do no wrong! He could kill a white baby while in a crack house surrounded by hookers, and dipshits will still looooove him...

Not that Hillary or Sgt. Depends are any better...

[Schmed]

Everyone's forgetting, only white people can be racist. Equivalent behavior from non-white people is something they are entitled to, just like slavery reparations. :icon_roll

I believe they call them Civil Rights Leaders, aka black/Brown supremacists.

"La Raza" = "The Race", imagine a white group called "The Race", I'm sure they would be embraced by Hillary as La Raza is [sarc].

[mendozathejew]

Mendoza, I respect your opinon here on this board, but in this I think you're misguided. This is another one of the situations where Obama's actions don't back up the words that come out of his mouth.[

You can say that he has a "pro-Israel platform", but I'm left wondering why so very, very many of his foreign policy advisers are either 1) shamelessly pro-Arab sympathizers or 2) anti-Israel, some to the point where it's not out of line to question whether they're just flat-out anti-semitic.

This is one of the areas where I have grave misgivings about Obama. If elected president, I have preciously little faith that he would do anything for Israel other than throw them under the bus in order to garner favor and sympathy from the various Arab / Muslim states of the Middle East.

thats all true. and its starting to not add up as we've been saying. Yet the guy calls Tzipi Livni once a week encouraging Israel to defend itself. If you look at his website, what it states on Israel there, and the overtures hes made to Israeli politicians, he doesnt really need to go that far to get some jew votes. Hes going beyond what he could, everything he has said about Israel is very supportive, even in his speech tuesday. yet he surrounds himself with garbage that contradicts all of it. Thats what isnt adding up.

[mendozathejew]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=xm6hlj-BV0s'
song starts at 2 minutes

[Vyce]

thats all true. and its starting to not add up as we've been saying. Yet the guy calls Tzipi Livni once a week encouraging Israel to defend itself. If you look at his website, what it states on Israel there, and the overtures hes made to Israeli politicians, he doesnt really need to go that far to get some jew votes. Hes going beyond what he could, everything he has said about Israel is very supportive, even in his speech tuesday. yet he surrounds himself with garbage that contradicts all of it. Thats what isnt adding up.

Which leaves me with the only conclusion that Obama is just like any other politician, despite this myth he and his followers have built about him.

By that, I mean, he'll flat out lie in order to get your vote, then once he has it, he'll show his true colors and fuck you over. I'm worried that if he's elected President, it'll be Jimmy Carter v. 2.0 with regards to his foreign policy towards the Middle East.

[South Jersey]

There's a reason why Hillary has kept her mouth shut this week.
http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/promos/politics/blog/20clintonwright1.533.jpg

That's bill and Racist Rev. Batshit

Here's (http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/03/20/photograph-of-bill-clinton-and-rev-wright-surfaces/) the story.

During one of the most difficult periods in the presidency of Bill Clinton, he addressed a group of clerics at an annual prayer breakfast in September 1998 just as the Starr report outlining his dalliance with Monica Lewinsky was about to be published.

Among those in attendance, was the Rev. Jeremiah Wright Jr., who is seen shaking hands with Mr. Clinton in a photograph provided today by the Obama campaign. Mr. Wright’s relationship with Senator Barack Obama, as his longtime pastor, has been the subject of considerable controversy in recent days because of incendiary excerpts of sermons Mr. Wright gave at their church, Trinity United Church of Christ, in Chicago.

In providing the photograph to The New York Times, the Obama campaign appeared to be trying to divert some attention to the Clintons after a week in which Mr. Obama’s relationship with Mr. Wright has left him facing one of the biggest challenges of his campaign. There is nothing in the picture or the note that addresses whether Mr. Clinton had met Mr. Wright prior to the White House meeting or whether he or Mrs. Clinton knew anything about Mr. Wright’s views. During one of the most difficult periods in the presidency of Bill Clinton, he addressed a group of clerics at an annual prayer breakfast in September 1998 just as the Starr report outlining his dalliance with Monica Lewinsky was about to be published.

Among those in attendance, was the Rev. Jeremiah Wright Jr., who is seen shaking hands with Mr. Clinton in a photograph provided today by the Obama campaign. Mr. Wright’s relationship with Senator Barack Obama, as his longtime pastor, has been the subject of considerable controversy in recent days because of incendiary excerpts of sermons Mr. Wright gave at their church, Trinity United Church of Christ, in Chicago.

In providing the photograph to The New York Times, the Obama campaign appeared to be trying to divert some attention to the Clintons after a week in which Mr. Obama’s relationship with Mr. Wright has left him facing one of the biggest challenges of his campaign. There is nothing in the picture or the note that addresses whether Mr. Clinton had met Mr. Wright prior to the White House meeting or whether he or Mrs. Clinton knew anything about Mr. Wright’s views. Asked for a response tonight through email, Howard Wolfson, a top aide to Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton, wrote, “Urgent indeed — a picture — oooooooo!”

Senator Clinton’s spokesman, Phil Singer, sent along this reply to a request for comment:

In the course of his two terms in office, Bill Clinton met with, corresponded with and took pictures with literally tens of thousands of people.

Mr. Wright was invited to the 1998 prayer breakfast, and in addition, he received a thank-you note from former President Clinton for his expressions of support about six weeks later.

According to an account by James Bennet, former White House correspondent who has since left The Times:

With tears in his eyes, President Clinton told a roomful of clerics this morning that he had sinned, speaking just hours before the world was presented a painstaking account by prosecutors of when, where and how.

Addressing an annual prayer breakfast at the White House, Mr. Clinton drew on the New Testament, the Yom Kippur liturgy and Ernest Hemingway as he made his most abject confession yet of personal failure, while declaring that he would defend and redeem his Presidency.

‘’I don’t think there is a fancy way to say that I have sinned,'’ he admitted softly, saying that after resisting expressions of contrition he had reached ‘’the rock-bottom truth of where I am.'’
For the first time, Mr. Clinton also asked for forgiveness from Monica S. Lewinsky, on the day that the details of their intimate relationship — details that he had denied and struggled to suppress — poured out through the Internet, whose wonders as a tool of communication he has so often extolled.

Mr. Wright is not mentioned in the article. Also visible in the photograph is Vice President Al Gore.

And according to the newly released schedules of Mrs. Clinton by the National Archives of her years as first lady, she was in attendance, too.

Her schedule reads:

“Religion Leaders Breakfast (w/POTUS)” in the East Room from 9-10:30 a.m.

Format:
- The President and First Lady are announced into the East Room and proceed to their tables.
- The Vice President makes remarks and introduces The President.
- The President makes remarks and introduces Dr. Reverend Gerald Mann.
- Dr. Reverend Gerald Mann gives blessing.
- Breakfast is served.
- Following breakfast, The President opens discussion.
- Upon conclusion of the discussion, The President introduces Dr. Reverend James Forbes.
- Dr. Reverend James Forbes gives benediction.
- The President, First Lady, and Vice President depart.
PARTICIPANTS: Approx. 130 guests to attend.

The wording of Mr. Clinton’s thank-you note to Mr. Wright, dated Oct. 28, 1998:

Dear Pastor Wright:

Thank you so much for your kind message.
I am touched by your prayers and by the many expressions of encouragement and support I have received from friends across our country.

You have my best wishes.

Sincerely,
Bill Clinton

[Fr. Dougal]

Jesus Henry Christ on a Saltine...

:clap::clap::clap:

[Fr. Dougal]

Did anyone else see Obama's recent "Typical white person" comments?

Take it in whatever context you want -- the fact is, as has been said, this shit just keeps adding up.

I'm glad he's the frontrunner. It's gonna be an easy fight.

[Sinn Fein]

Did anyone else see Obama's recent "Typical white person" comments?

Take it in whatever context you want -- the fact is, as has been said, this shit just keeps adding up.

I'm glad he's the frontrunner. It's gonna be an easy fight.

This is only the beginning... McCain hasn't even focused on him yet. This is all stuff that's just coming out on its own...

EDIT: This is my 15,000th post. Woot!

[South Jersey]

This is only the beginning... McCain hasn't even focused on him yet. This is all stuff that's just coming out on its own...

Just wait till his ties to the Weather Underground (http://marathonpundit.blogspot.com/2008/02/obama-visited-home-of-ex-weather.html)starts coming out. When that shit hits the fan it's over Johnny.

[nikoloslvy]

Dreams from My Father: A Story of Race and Inheritance by barack obama

a few selections in his own words.seems to think highly of wright in this audio.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JitjW_CsPXk

[Zona992006]

Spin this "Obama's honky-hatin' pastor" situation however you want, but the reality is that Pastor Jeremiah done cooked Obama's goose.

It's over, Johnny.

It's like I've always said... The black community in America are like crabs in a bucket, every time one of their own tries to rise above and crawl out of the bucket, the rest reach up and pull him back down.

I just thought I would check his progress now and will do it again after billary, then after McBush.

[Zona992006]

Just wait till his ties to the Weather Underground (http://marathonpundit.blogspot.com/2008/02/obama-visited-home-of-ex-weather.html)starts coming out. When that shit hits the fan it's over Johnny.

Question, didnt you feel that way about the pastor thing? Lets go back a little further, didnt you feel that way about him in the back of that limo with that guy...or even further back, rezko...etc etc etc.

This is really funny stuff.

Here is a thought, lets try to attack him on his stances on things...if you need to know them, look him up on his websight or even read excerpts from his book....just a thought.

[mendozathejew]

Question, didnt you feel that way about the pastor thing? Lets go back a little further, didnt you feel that way about him in the back of that limo with that guy...or even further back, rezko...etc etc etc.

This is really funny stuff.

Here is a thought, lets try to attack him on his stances on things...if you need to know them, look him up on his websight or even read excerpts from his book....just a thought.

none of Obama's controversies will affect him in the primary. the general, thats another story.

[Zona992006]

none of Obama's controversies will affect him in the primary. the general, thats another story.

well, lets see what happens in the general...cant wait to see how mccain deals with scrutiny. (Did you hear what he called his wife?..oh man)

But Obama is getting a free ride...lol

[Glenn Dandy]

None of this shit matters.... Blacks will vote Obama.. no matter what...Woman will vote for Obama or hilary...
And white guys and their wives who listen will vote for McCain.

period.

[Zona992006]

None of this shit matters.... Blacks will vote Obama.. no matter what...Woman will vote for Obama or hilary...
And white guys and their wives who listen will vote for McCain.

period.

Judging by the polls, the bleeeks aren't the only ones voting for him..

[Vyce]

well, lets see what happens in the general...cant wait to see how mccain deals with scrutiny. (Did you hear what he called his wife?..oh man)

But Obama is getting a free ride...lol

Obama has been getting a free ride. And so far, he hasn't show that he's terribly good at handling things (especially in his handling of the media) when the scrutiny is upon him.

When the general election begins, and the scrutiny is very much on him (far more than it is in the primaries), things are going to get worse.

[VMS]

Judging by the polls, the bleeeks aren't the only ones voting for him..

Judging by the actual primary votes, a significant number of those who tell pollsters they support Obama are lying their asses off.

[MrBogey]

Blacks are about the most predictable voting bloc in the nation.

Their heirarchy is fixed pretty rigid across the populace with notable exceptions.

1. Vote for the black
2. Vote for the non-black democrat
3. Vote for the black non-democrat
999. Vote for the white Republican

[Zona992006]

Obama has been getting a free ride. And so far, he hasn't show that he's terribly good at handling things (especially in his handling of the media) when the scrutiny is upon him.

When the general election begins, and the scrutiny is very much on him (far more than it is in the primaries), things are going to get worse.

Ok..fair enough. Dude, I live here in Arizona. I know how much they coddled the old man and when the country opens up to him, well lets just say it will be interesting.

The Rev thing was handled beautifully. Perfectly actually.

He cant handle the media? Well at least he didnt cry in Vermont. LOL
McCain on the podium against Obama will be a slaughter. This is fun though.

[mendozathejew]

Ok..fair enough. Dude, I live here in Arizona. I know how much they coddled the old man and when the country opens up to him, well lets just say it will be interesting.

The Rev thing was handled beautifully. Perfectly actually.

perfectly for the democratic nomination. not the general

[Zona992006]

perfectly for the democratic nomination. not the general

OK, that is an unknown. They didnt even start on McCain yet. Did you read about media matters and what they plan to do?

This just gets better and better. We will see.

[mendozathejew]

its not in either candidates nature to campaign dirty. But you're right, they wont have to regardless.

[Zona992006]

That is what I like about both of them...and in contrast, that is why I hate Billary.

[mendozathejew]

which attack machines do you think the media will respond more harshly to, the far right or far left?

[Vyce]

perfectly for the democratic nomination. not the general

Exactly. Obama's big speech after Wright? Was pretty much just a sermon to the choir, if you will allow me to draw that specific imagery. Anyone who thinks the Wright story is done is an absolute fool. It's going to come up in the general election and it WILL continue to damage Obama. This is one of those huge mistakes that never will leave the guy. Even if he gets the White House, serves two terms, that's ALWAYS going to be something which hangs around his neck. Yes, it's that big of an issue.

I did hear what Media Matters has planned, but I don't know how well it's going to work. McCain does have years of service upon which he's built a lot of respect and good will. I think that's actually going to go a long way in this election.

Obama, on the other hand, is still an unknown. All he has to run on is "hey, I'm a nice guy, I'm different than the average politician, I'll bring about change!" That's why Wright, or Rezko, or any of these other stories, might have a greater impact upon him, because it becomes easier to paint him negatively, regardless of this message of "hope".

[Zona992006]

Exactly. Obama's big speech after Wright? Was pretty much just a sermon to the choir, if you will allow me to draw that specific imagery. Anyone who thinks the Wright story is done is an absolute fool. It's going to come up in the general election and it WILL continue to damage Obama. This is one of those huge mistakes that never will leave the guy. Even if he gets the White House, serves two terms, that's ALWAYS going to be something which hangs around his neck. Yes, it's that big of an issue.

I did hear what Media Matters has planned, but I don't know how well it's going to work. McCain does have years of service upon which he's built a lot of respect and good will. I think that's actually going to go a long way in this election.

Obama, on the other hand, is still an unknown. All he has to run on is "hey, I'm a nice guy, I'm different than the average politician, I'll bring about change!" That's why Wright, or Rezko, or any of these other stories, might have a greater impact upon him, because it becomes easier to paint him negatively, regardless of this message of "hope".

You do realize he had bigger numbers after the revgate thing...

[nikoloslvy]

Question, didnt you feel that way about the pastor thing? Lets go back a little further, didnt you feel that way about him in the back of that limo with that guy...or even further back, rezko...etc etc etc.

i cant tell you how tired i am of this stupidity.wtf does that mean? only people who are going to vote for him can criticize him? im somehow disingenuous with my criticism? im a walk the party line hack who is picking at straws? where the f did "well you weren't gonna vote for him anyway" come from? i see it way to often and it means nothing. stop it.

[MrBogey]

You do realize he had bigger numbers after the revgate thing...

Depends on what numbers you wanted. It helped him with Democrats. Republicans? Not so much. Actually I think his negatives grew higher than any positives.

[Vyce]

You do realize he had bigger numbers after the revgate thing...

Among Democrats perhaps.

Republicans - who already weren't going to vote for the guy, but still - it dropped. It also dropped with INDEPENDENTS, which is VERY troubling for Obama, because we have now reached the point in American politics where you cannot win the Presidency without the support of a significant portion of the independent vote.

The bottom line is this: even if Obama wins, he's not going to walk into it. It's going to be a tough campaign, and it's going to be a lot closer than Democrats or Obama-supporters are realizing. That's assuming he DOES win, because despite what you might think, that's very much far from a certainty.

[ih8Uboo-boo]

You do realize he had bigger numbers after the revgate thing...

He Does???


Republican Sen. John McCain has erased Sen. Barack Obama's 10-point advantage in a head-to-head matchup, leaving him essentially tied with