Plumbers/electricians - water heater tripping breaker

[Sinn Fein]

This is the 2nd time this has happened. I go to take a shower, and no hot water. Wait, correction - lukewarm (at best) water. Afterwards, I check and the breaker is tripped.

We've got an 80-gallon Bradford White water heater that is not even 3 years old. It's on it's own sub-panel that is connected to the off-peak meter. Last time it happened was about 2 months ago. I didn't think much of it.

Now that it happened again, I am starting to get concerned.

Advice?

[THE FEZ MAN]

stand in a large puddle of water in the dark next to the open box and blindly jab at it, when you see god. you fixed it

[Buster H]

This is the 2nd time this has happened. I go to take a shower, and no hot water. Wait, correction - lukewarm (at best) water. Afterwards, I check and the breaker is tripped.

We've got an 80-gallon Bradford White water heater that is not even 3 years old. It's on it's own sub-panel that is connected to the off-peak meter. Last time it happened was about 2 months ago. I didn't think much of it.

Now that it happened again, I am starting to get concerned.

Advice?

Not to be overly simple, but either your breaker is basd, or something in the heater is drawing too much current. Hopefully, you have a current meter or know someone that has one.

Check the current rating on your heater and make sure the breaker is rated for at least that much.
Check the current draw when the heater is at full load and see what it is drawing.

Because it took so long between trips, it sounds to me like a messed up breaker.

[gasbuddah]

If this is an electric water heater (wich I'm assuming it is) then it should have a breaker in the thermostat housing. You should see two access panels on your tank, one upper and one lower. If your panel breaker is tripping and the breaker on the thermostat isn't then you may have a weak breaker or something else has been tied to your water heater circuit. Your water heater should be on its own circuit and nothing else should be added to this circuit.

If the breaker trips again then pull the access panel on the water heater and locate the thermostat. It should have a little dial for temperature adjustment. See if the breaker on the thermostat has tripped. If it hasn't then there are a couple of possible answers.

1. something else is tied to your water heater circuit.

2. It is possible that you sufferred a brown out while the water was at full load. this could lead to the panel breaker tripping.

3. It's possible that the heater element sufferred a direct short. In this scenario you would not be able to reset the breaker.

My guess is that number 2 is the most likely scenario. If you have to dig any deeper than call a plumber.

[JimsInfectedEye]

Everything he said above - but with #2, I've seen (very rare, though) elements that have ruptured but didn't cause a direct short, but they did cause nuisance trips. Could have an element on the way out. Should be fairly easy to change.

[Sinn Fein]

I forgot to mention I checked the breaker on the water heater, behind the top access panel where the top heating element is. It wasn't tripped, only the double-throw breaker that is on the mini-panel for the water heater in my garage.

In case it's not clear - we have 2 electric meters. Primary meter is connected to the 200 amp panel for the house. The secondary meter is an off-peak meter and that feeds the mini-panel that only contains one double-throw breaker - for the water heater.

There is absolutely nothing else on the circuit. The feed from the meter goes to this small panel, only thing coming out of it is the feed to the water heater.

Soo... I guess it's a bad breaker, or perhaps one that is too small. I will check it out in the morning.

[JimsInfectedEye]

Soo... I guess it's a bad breaker, or perhaps one that is too small. I will check it out in the morning.

Water heater should have a breaker rating on the tag somewhere where M# and S# is. Make sure your breaker is what they specify. Also couldn't hurt throwing an amprobe on the circuit.

[gasbuddah]

If the breaker is the size that is rated on the plate then I would say that either your breaker is weak or (most likely) you caught a brown out while at load. I had the same problem with my AC on the first warm days of just about every cooling season. Seeing that you're in Bucks County, if it was a warm day, I would guess that every McMansion soccer mom fired up the AC causing a dip on the grid. Your heater trying to heat the tank and the dip in power supply causes your unit to exceed the rated amp draw of the breaker. That would explain the intermitten occurence of this issue.

[Glenn Dandy]

first of all 80 gallon water heater? Jesus christ are you running a soup kitchen out of your house?

secondly if you get stuck with luke warm water it usualy means your heater is supplied by a split breaker... as far as it tripping... its kind of more of an electricins specialty... my advice is get a smaller water heater.... that 80 if you got it on super hot... must be running damned near constantly.

that off peak thing sounds like a good idea since you are heating so much water.

sounds as far as i can guess like a bad breaker switch... or one of your elements are bad and the other one is working to hard and tripping it...

go on the net and learn how to check your elements... its easy... just unhook the opposite side of power from the screw and see if juice is running through the rod to the other side.


PS,,, this is my worst subject in PLumbing... i never was very good with Electric... I get by as much as a plumber has too.

[d0uche_n0zzle]

Tankless (http://www.e-tankless.com/stiebel-eltron-tempra-20-tankless-water-heater.php)

For Mother Earf. :action-sm

[Glenn Dandy]

i cant use a tankless ... im on a slab. bottom floor condo...


I will give this advise to anyone considering an electric tankless hot water heater..

they draw 100 amps when they kick on... so you better have one hell of an electrical service... or expect to upgrade.

[d0uche_n0zzle]

That's one draw back on them, same with that no electricity thing that happens from time to time.

Pretty sure they always recommend having double what the tankless unit will need.

[Sinn Fein]

first of all 80 gallon water heater? Jesus christ are you running a soup kitchen out of your house?

secondly if you get stuck with luke warm water it usualy means your heater is supplied by a split breaker... as far as it tripping... its kind of more of an electricins specialty... my advice is get a smaller water heater.... that 80 if you got it on super hot... must be running damned near constantly.

that off peak thing sounds like a good idea since you are heating so much water.

sounds as far as i can guess like a bad breaker switch... or one of your elements are bad and the other one is working to hard and tripping it...

go on the net and learn how to check your elements... its easy... just unhook the opposite side of power from the screw and see if juice is running through the rod to the other side.


PS,,, this is my worst subject in PLumbing... i never was very good with Electric... I get by as much as a plumber has too.

The only reason the water was lukewarm was because it was just the residual heat leftover from when the thing was heating before the breaker tripped. My wife took a shower before I did and claimed the water was hot enough. It got gradually cooler as I took my shower.

We have an 80 gallon because we had 6 people living here initially, a dishwasher, washing machine, etc.

I've got it on the standard temperature setting, one step above the lowest possible setting.

I think I am going to change out the breakers. If it happens again after that, I'll check the elements.

I am going to take a shower now. I'll report back how it goes. There should be plenty of hot water since I reset the breaker last night before we went to see Louis CK.

[Glenn Dandy]

dont forget to wash behind your ears.

[weeniewawa]

There should be plenty of hot water since I reset the breaker last night before we went to see Louis CK.

that explains everything, it's the mexicans fault

[Sinn Fein]

And bump.

Well, the thing never tripped the breaker ever again after the time I started this thread. But, about 6 months ago the reset in the heater itself by the top element tripped. I reset it, no big deal. Well, it happened again on Easter Sunday. At that point, I decided I should probably drain it and pull the elements. I never got around to it. Well, it tripped out again overnight and my wife had to take a cold shower today. I reset it, we went out this afternoon.

I stopped at Lowes on the way home and picked up two new elements, I bought the best (most expensive) ones they had that were the right voltage/wattage. When I got home I checked, and the reset was tripped again.

So, I hooked up a hose to the drain, ran it outside into the front yard, turned off the breaker, turned off both ball valves above the heater, opened the drain, and opened the pressure relief as an air bleed.

About 40 minutes later, the thing was empty. My brother-in-law and I changed out both elements. The water heater is only like 4 years old. But, when it was installed, it wasn't full all the way when the dude who installed it turned on the breaker. So, it burned out one if not both elements. I wasn't here when it happened, and when I came home all I saw was him changing out the top element. But, after what I found today, I am pretty sure he blew them both.

The bottom element was only 3500W, and the label on the heater says both elements are supposed to be 4500W. And, both elements were cheap pieces of shit - the "good" variety of the good, better, best selection...

This is the new element I installed in both the top and bottom. (http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?action=productDetail&productId=26373-000000135-6900397&lpage=none)

The first picture is of the old elements. I actually had cleaned the top one off a little before I took the picture, but it was nothing like the disaster that is the bottom element, which I took a closeup for the second picture.

[lockjaaaaww]

could be a short

[THE FEZ MAN]

i hope you didn't buy the new heating elements from harbor freight too..... ;)

[Sinn Fein]

i hope you didn't buy the new heating elements from harbor freight too..... ;)

That drill kicks ass. I bought it when it was on-sale plus I used an email coupon. It cost less than buying a replacement battery for a DeWalt/Makita/Milwaukee. I've had it almost a year. I've used it enough that it paid for itself already plus it still looks and works like new.

I stopped at Lowes on the way home and picked up two new elements, I bought the best (most expensive) ones they had that were the right voltage/wattage.

Re-read my post. ;)

[THE FEZ MAN]

oh relax Francis:action-sm

[lockjaaaaww]

oh relax Francis:action-sm

you call me Francis, and ill kill you.

[Turfmower]

That white stuff is calcium build up. You need to use one of the xm sponsors
softwater123.com :action-sm

[Sinn Fein]

That white stuff is calcium build up. You need to use one of the xm sponsors
softwater123.com :action-sm

Is it? I thought someone jacked off into my hot-water supply. :action-sm

I knew what it was. We've got a well. And I've got a something like that Hydrocare device. It seems to help a little. We used to get real hard buildup on the showerhead, etc. Now it's softer and not as much. The stuff actually wipes right off for the most part.