U.S. soldier uses Quran in target practice

[weakside]

Muslim holy book was found riddled with bullet holes at Baghdad range


BAGHDAD - U.S. military commanders have apologized to community leaders in Iraq after an American soldier used a copy of the Quran for shooting practice, moving quickly to calm anger among U.S.-allied tribesmen.
Bloody protests have sometimes been held across the Muslim world when the Islamic faith has been insulted.
The swift apology by the U.S. commanders appeared aimed at avoiding similar violence in Iraq.

The U.S. military said on Sunday the soldier, who was not identified, had been disciplined and ordered to leave Iraq after a copy of the Muslim holy book was found riddled with bullet holes at a shooting range near Baghdad on May 11.

The incident is deeply embarrassing for the U.S. military, which has been working hard to forge alliances with Sunni Arab tribes to fight al-Qaida in Iraq. It has credited such alliances with helping to sharply reduce violence in the country.

An Iraqi community leader told Reuters the apology by senior American military commanders had helped calm tensions.

Saeed al-Zubaie, head of a U.S.-allied Sunni Arab tribal council in the Radwaniya area near Baghdad where the Quran was found, said the book had been peppered with 14 bullet holes and offensive language had been scrawled inside.

"I was feeling bitterness, but as long as they apologized we are OK with them. Our anger has cooled," said Zubaie, adding that Sunni Arab tribal units who work alongside U.S. forces in the area had threatened to quit unless the military took action.

The U.S. television news network CNN said Major-General Jeffery Hammond, the commander of U.S. troops in Baghdad, and other officers were met by hundreds of protesters when they went to Radwaniya to deliver the apology.

"I am a man of honor, I am a man of character. You have my word this will never happen again," Hammond told the crowd, CNN reported.

Colonel Bill Buckner, a U.S. military spokesman described the shooting incident as "serious and deeply troubling."

Two things:

1. Not the smartest thing to do as a soldier.

2. His punishment was being sent away from Iraq? (Although that may have ended up saving his life.)

[d0uche_n0zzle]

It might have been loaded with C4, better safe then sorry.

[Plunkies]

1. Not the smartest thing to do as a soldier.

How would he have anticipated this?

[Schmed]

How would he have anticipated this?

Yeh, he should have shot the person holding it.

The liberals would've want the WWII soldiers put on trial for shooting Mein Kampf.

[weakside]

How would he have anticipated this?

Let's see, shooting at the Quran in a Muslim nation. It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to anticipate there will probably be trouble from this. I myself could not care less about religion in general, but stupid is stupid.

[Schmed]

Let's see, shooting at the Quran in a Muslim nation. It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to anticipate there will probably be trouble from this. I myself could not care less about religion in general, but stupid is stupid.

Good, it will make it easy to identify the troublemakers.

[Plunkies]

Let's see, shooting at the Quran in a Muslim nation. It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to anticipate there will probably be trouble from this. I myself could not care less about religion in general, but stupid is stupid.

So a single soldier using his own property for target practice should have realized that it would cause a problem in international diplomacy? That's fucking ridiculous.

[weakside]

So a single soldier using his own property for target practice should have realized that it would cause a problem in international diplomacy? That's fucking ridiculous.

You can't be serious. Again, I'm not a fan of religion but he didn't shoot up just anything, it was a religious text that the majority of the country believes is holy and sacred. If you want to say that it wasn’t a big deal in your opinion and it was just a silly book, fine. But to not know it would cause problems by doing so is incredibly foolish. Not just the enemy subscribes to that religion, many of our allies and even the soldiers he fight with do as well. Again, despite my personal feeling about it and every religion it’s a dumb move.

[Arch Stanton]

I kept reading looking for the part where an Islamist Terrorist was holding it.

That is what the soldier should be in trouble for.

[DonTheTrucker]

I can't even imagine what it would have been like if the media were as much against the military in 1944 as they are now. Can you even imagine some of the stories? Horrible shit happens in wars. Marines throwing puppies off cliffs and soldiers shooting up books are NON FUCKING STORIES. If that's the best the media has against our military, we have the most disciplined fighting force ever assembled.

I can't even imagine what these grassfuckers would have said when I was younger and took a Public Enemy poster to the gun range to shoot with a deer rifle.

[Plunkies]

You can't be serious. Again, I'm not a fan of religion but he didn't shoot up just anything, it was a religious text that the majority of the country believes is holy and sacred. If you want to say that it wasn’t a big deal in your opinion and it was just a silly book, fine. But to not know it would cause problems by doing so is incredibly foolish. Not just the enemy subscribes to that religion, many of our allies and even the soldiers he fight with do as well. Again, despite my personal feeling about it and every religion it’s a dumb move.

I didn't say a thing about religion or the contents of the quran. You're the one not being objective. How does a single soldier possibly foresee these consequences? Stop being monday morning quarterback guy and put yourself in the soldier's position. You honestly think a grunt in Iraq using a quran for target practice would consider INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMACY as a possible consequence of his actions? It was probably a fluke that anyone else even stumbled across the fucking thing in the first place. The chain of events that followed were beyond reasonable prediction. It's like saying Imus should have known he was going to get fired. It's easy to point fingers afterwards when you can see the whole chain in its entirety. Sure it was a bad idea IN RETROSPECT. At the time I doubt it would have even raised an eyebrow.

[Hudson]

The best part about that article..the Colonels name was Bill Buckner.

[THE FEZ MAN]

oh fucking well, as far as im concerned he was shooting up a worthless piece of paper, you can bet that if it was that other fairy tail called a bible they wouldn't do shit.

[mendozathejew]

So a single soldier using his own property for target practice should have realized that it would cause a problem in international diplomacy? That's fucking ridiculous.

the only mistake he made was not realizing that the shitbags in the media would talk about this story to no end and not throwing the thing out when he was done

[Ballbuster1]

the only mistake he made was not realizing that the shitbags in the media would talk about this story to no end and not throwing the thing out when he was done
Yup. A little common sense goes a long way.

[DonTheTrucker]

oh fucking well, as far as im concerned he was shooting up a worthless piece of paper, you can bet that if it was that other fairy tail called a bible they wouldn't do shit.

We may worship a Jewish zombie, but we can spell. :action-sm

Of course you're right though. They wouldn't care if it were a bible.

[LiddyRules]

I didn't say a thing about religion or the contents of the quran. You're the one not being objective. How does a single soldier possibly foresee these consequences? I don't know. I mean, it's not like Muslims in all sorts of foreign lands have gone batshit over things less "worse" than this.

Whether he chose the Koran to make a statement or to be an "asshole" to Muslims, there is a specific reason he chose to shoot the Koran and not some other book. Sure, he might not have foreseen the actual extent of it but he had to have known it would piss people off big time, especially with his position as a soldier.

Like others in this thread have said, common sense goes a long way.

[Plunkies]

I don't know. I mean, it's not like Muslims in all sorts of foreign lands have gone batshit over things less "worse" than this.

Whether he chose the Koran to make a statement or to be an "asshole" to Muslims, there is a specific reason he chose to shoot the Koran and not some other book. Sure, he might not have foreseen the actual extent of it but he had to have known it would piss people off big time, especially with his position as a soldier.

Like others in this thread have said, common sense goes a long way.

He chose the quran to shoot at because it most accurately represented the people that shoot at him. Perhaps we should remember that while we're jerking off to the media's bullshit and wagging our self-righteous fingers at the people who fight for us. Since we're talking about common sense, here's some... The feelings of our soldiers are a bit more important than the feelings of savages. He found a way to blow off steam without hurting anyone else and even practice his marksmanship while he was at it. I say good job. Until you know who found the book and how, you've no reason to blame the soldier for anything. He only had the obligation to think of the diplomatic consequences if he was waving it in the faces of Muslims or displaying it somewhere public.

[DonTheTrucker]

He chose the quran to shoot at because it most accurately represented the people that shoot at him. Perhaps we should remember that while we're jerking off to the media's bullshit and wagging our self-righteous fingers at the people who fight for us. Since we're talking about common sense, here's some... The feelings of our soldiers are a bit more important than the feelings of savages. He found a way to blow off steam without hurting anyone else and even practice his marksmanship while he was at it. I say good job. Until you know who found the book and how, you've no reason to blame the soldier for anything. He only had the obligation to think of the diplomatic consequences if he was waving it in the faces of Muslims or displaying it somewhere public.

Stop making so much sense. The PC police will be after you if you don't. :clap::clap:

[Glenn Dandy]

You can't be serious. Again, I'm not a fan of religion but he didn't shoot up just anything, it was a religious text that the majority of the country believes is holy and sacred. If you want to say that it wasn’t a big deal in your opinion and it was just a silly book, fine. But to not know it would cause problems by doing so is incredibly foolish. Not just the enemy subscribes to that religion, many of our allies and even the soldiers he fight with do as well. Again, despite my personal feeling about it and every religion it’s a dumb move.

So when they print them in China... I guess the ones that get messed up in the machines are blessed and buried right?


ITS A FUCKING BOOK.

how strong is your religion if you get hurt by a destroyed book, or a god damned comic strip.

Fuck them and their bullshit craziness.

Nice shot soldier.

[weakside]

As a U.S. soldier you represent the United States of America as much as our president does. And as a representative you must carry out the will of our government without question.

The United States is no longer at war with Iraq, but rather with the insurgents within it.

The government that the United States has helped to set up in Iraq and the people that we are trying to win over in the country are almost unanimously Muslim. Hell, even some of our soldiers are Muslim

Thus shooting up their religious text was a stupid idea and counter productive to the goals of the United States. And whether or not he thought he would get caught, he should have known better.

[stillbornstew]

the only mistake he made was not realizing that the shitbags in the media would talk about this story to no end and not throwing the thing out when he was done
QFT
oh fucking well, as far as im concerned he was shooting up a worthless piece of paper, you can bet that if it was that other fairy tail called a bible they wouldn't do shit.
yeah, this has been said time and time again on the show. no one gives 2 shits about offending christians.



all i know is.....if in order to get sent out of iraq, i just need to put a few hot ones in the quran. mental note taken. i have ZERO problem w/ going to mast for that shit.

[The Sarge]

So when they print them in China... I guess the ones that get messed up in the machines are blessed and buried right?


ITS A FUCKING BOOK.

how strong is your religion if you get hurt by a destroyed book, or a god damned comic strip.

Fuck them and their bullshit craziness.

Nice shot soldier.

QFT, Prez.

[Stalker2]

Pic: http://img399.imageshack.us/img399/8322/ghkor776lu4.jpg

[d0uche_n0zzle]

Nice grouping.

[silentbob8201]

It might have been loaded with C4, better safe then sorry.

It's the only way to be sure.

[PDX909]

So when they print them in China... I guess the ones that get messed up in the machines are blessed and buried right?


ITS A FUCKING BOOK.

how strong is your religion if you get hurt by a destroyed book, or a god damned comic strip.

Fuck them and their bullshit craziness.

Nice shot soldier.

So what do you feel when someone burns a US flag and then pisses on it?

Is it "just a fucking flag "? or a symbol of something that's very important to you? If you can look at that and feel nothing the I buy your fucking argument... That book, is very important to a lot of our friends as well as our enemies these days..

[mills]

So what do you feel when someone burns a US flag and then pisses on it?

Is it "just a fucking flag "? or a symbol of something that's very important to you? If you can look at that and feel nothing the I buy your fucking argument... That book, is very important to a lot of our friends as well as our enemies these days..I can't speak for the guy you quoted but I don't feel anything. I know they hate us, I know they hate Israel, and I know what they're saying. Why would you "feel" anything unless you're clinically retarded?

[stillbornstew]

So what do you feel when someone burns a US flag and then pisses on it?

Is it "just a fucking flag "? or a symbol of something that's very important to you? If you can look at that and feel nothing the I buy your fucking argument... That book, is very important to a lot of our friends as well as our enemies these days..
honestly, it doesn't bother me when i see them burning an american flag. nor do i give a rats ass if someone rips up a bible. it doesn't force me into a feeling of savagery. i'm a civilized human being sir. those same flag burning savages also don't allow their women ANY rights (i do kinda like that :icon_roll) and see their their women solely as a means of procreation. it's 2008 and all they want it to convert any non-muslim to islam or kill you for not converting. fuck 'em all i say.

[LiddyRules]

So what do you feel when someone burns a US flag and then pisses on it?

Is it "just a fucking flag "? or a symbol of something that's very important to you? If you can look at that and feel nothing the I buy your fucking argument... That book, is very important to a lot of our friends as well as our enemies these days.. Except, for the most part, they're not like us. We can show restraint. It's one of the benefits of culture. We should stop acting like they are. I'm not saying we need to play exclusively by their rules but there are consequences for actions. We can't keep saying "they're fucking savages" and then when they act savagely respond with "What the fuck?! They're acting like fucking savages!!!"

Should they freak out when someone burns a Koran? No. But they do.

Personally, I don't feel that any symbol, any piece of paper or any piece of fabric should incite such passionate anger in people they can kill. But, again, it's how they react. We know this.

[weakside]

Except, for the most part, they're not like us. We can show restraint. It's one of the benefits of culture. We should stop acting like they are. I'm not saying we need to play exclusively by their rules but there are consequences for actions. We can't keep saying "they're fucking savages" and then when they act savagely respond with "What the fuck?! They're acting like fucking savages!!!"

Should they freak out when someone burns a Koran? No. But they do.

Personally, I don't feel that any symbol, any piece of paper or any piece of fabric should incite such passionate anger in people they can kill. But, again, it's how they react. We know this.

Once again Liddy, you make some brilliant points and I completely agree. The point is you have to be aware of who is around you and what they believe, especially in a war zone. It’s just common sense.

I would even take this further and say a large portion of America also puts way too much stock in "things". For example, suppose this same story happened in the Bible Belt in a town with more churches than stores and where everything closes on Sunday. Suppose some guy went to that town and shot up a Christian bible in the middle of the street. If some good ol' boys some him do it would we be overly surprised if that guy got his head blown off by a shot gun, or at the very least be run out of town one way or another? I wouldn't.

[kidconnor]

Just some american boy getting rid of some of the anger at those that mean to harm him. I see nothing wrong with it, except in the soldiers disrgard of the consequences if it WAS found. But once discovered, the political ramifications could not have been ignored. They had to publically apologize. I am sure some ranking officer yelled at him for it then gave him a 'damn fine shooting though' as he waked out the door. The muslim anger is warranted though but ..too bad. Those 'muslims' that aim to harm us are far more ruthless and savage than we would ever THINK of being.

I am just curious as what "discipline" he recieved as well as being made to leave iraq. I think the idea of HAVING to make an example out of someone is BS. Hopefully it was a slap on the wrist.

And I do get somewhat angered when I see the flag being burned. But as Liddy posted, I have restraint. There are some veterans still around that believe in the flag and what it stands for. To them, it goes above just a "thing". I would guess watching friends die next to you and being part of war would make you feel differently. For them, disgracing the flag = disgracing America and an ass whooping must occur.

[VMS]

Personal level- I could give two shits what he was shooting at. Lay off.

Political level- This isn't the smart thing to do, though I understand his frustration.

Policy level- Dude shot at a Koran, and probably pissed off a few hundred camel jockeys into being suicide bombers. How about not doing that, and giving the rest of the boys a few less assholes to shoot or get blown up by?