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abudabit
08-15-2008, 05:35 PM
Didn't feel like puting this in current events.

NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- Terry Read transferred $400 into his wife's checking account on a Friday. Over the weekend, his wife used her debit card to make some small purchases, and on Monday she was slammed with a $35 overdraft fee because his cash transfer hadn't cleared yet.

"They took my $400 out of my account immediately of course," Read said. Since both use the same bank, hitting his wife with an overdraft fee seemed "absolutely ridiculous" to him.

Overdraft fees set in when a bank approves a transaction even if the customer doesn't have sufficient funds. The bank is essentially providing a temporary loan and charging plenty - usually between $25 and $35, no matter how big or small the transaction.
Banks typically provide overdraft protection automatically, and while it's touted as a convenience, the cost can come as a shock to unsuspecting customers.

"Banks should have to get their customers' affirmative consent before signing them up for their most expensive loans," Jean Ann Fox, director of financial services at the Consumer Federation of America said in a statement.

Almost half of all overdrafts happen with debit card purchases, according to the Center for Responsible Lending. And most debit overdrafts are small, averaging less than the overdraft fee, the consumer advocacy group said.

In a recent study, the Consumer Federation of America found that overdraft fees at the 10 largest banks are on the rise. The average highest fee charged for overdrafts is $34.65, up 15% from 2005, the consumer group said.

There can be additional fees if the overdraft is not repaid by making a sufficient deposit within a few days and customers can rack up as many as six or seven overdraft fees in one day if they aren't aware of their low balance.

Now Congress may step in.

Reps. Carolyn Maloney, D-N.Y. and Barney Frank, D-Mass., have proposed the Consumer Overdraft Protection Fair Practices Act in an attempt to protect consumers from hefty fees.

"I've been working on reducing sky-high overdraft fees for several years now," Congresswoman Maloney said in an e-mail to CNNMoney.com. "Overdraft loans can be useful financial tools, but many consumers are being enrolled in costly overdraft protection programs without their consent. consumers would have to "opt-in" to overdraft protection programs and banks would be required to inform consumers when they are about to overdraw their accounts."

The bill, which is currently pending before Congress, also requires that banks provide full, written disclosure of their overdraft policies to customers.

In a statement, Citibank (C, Fortune 500) said that full disclosure is already standard practice, and overdraft fees should not be viewed as unfair or deceptive, since Citi customers are informed about the practice and the $34 overdraft fee.

What can you do?
Other banks also counter that their overdraft policies are clear and the fees are disclosed at the time an account is opened. Also, since many banks offer online banking, telephone banking and balance alerts via e-mail for free, consumers should be able to keep a careful eye on their balance.

"In most cases, banking customers can avoid overdrafting their accounts and paying any associated fee by knowing their balances," said Fred Solomon, a spokesman at PNC (PNC, Fortune 500) bank.

PNC recently sent its customers a notice allowing them to opt-out of overdraft access. "They can call PNC and we will automatically exclude them from the convenience of overdraft access for all ATM transactions and purchases," Solomon said.

Other banks will do this too, although the consumer may have to take the initiative and ask for it.

Another way to avoid costly overdraft fees is to sign up for an overdraft protection plan with a linked account. Those plans allow banking customers to link their checking account with a savings account or [U]even their credit card. So if you write a check and there isn't enough money in your checking account to cover it, then the bank will draw the money from another account.

But that assumes that you have other funds. And despite the fact that you're backing the account with your own money, in most cases there's a charge for that service too, although it's far less than the overdraft fee. For example, Chase (JPM, Fortune 500) customers get charged $5 for each time they use their overdraft protection plan. Fifth Third Bancorp (FITB, Fortune 500) offers this service for $9 a pop. If you use the overdraft protection more than 10 times in a 12-month period, then the fee gets upped to $15.

Despite the expense, there is an upside to overdraft protection. It not only allows you to complete a transaction and remain in good standing with the parties you do business with, you also avoid the potential embarrassment of being denied at the register. That might be worth $35 to some people.


I like that idea of linking the overdraft to your credit card instead of doing a fee or a denial.

I got ass rammed on over drafts last month. Fuck me and my non balancing self.

weeniewawa
08-15-2008, 06:00 PM
I would rather pay the 35 or so instead of having them return the check. I hardly ever overdraw but if I don't keep an eye on things it has happened.

bucket-of-aids
08-15-2008, 06:11 PM
[Sanctamonius jerkoff]Well if you didn't spend money you didn't have or if you balanced your checkbook correctly, you wouldn't get overdraft fees.[/Sanctamonius jerkoff].

Actually I've found that the best way to avoid overdraft fees is to make more than you spend on any given week. As long as you're not broke you don't get fees. If you live paycheck to paycheck, it's easy to overdraw at a gas pump or grocery store, even if it's by a dollar or fifty cents. Once you get into that situation the bank starts backdating and rearranging things so that you get ass pounded $35 at a time.

In summary, don't be broke if you can avoid it.

BCH
08-15-2008, 06:18 PM
I have Citibank "Checking Plus" I pay a finance charge on money borrowed of 18% computed daily. Last month my average balance was $152.98 with a daily periodic rate of .049% totaling a whopping $2.40 I don't get charged a fee every time. I frankly don't know what any of this is about. I just put the shit back in at the end of the month and don't worry about nothin'.

MrBogey
08-15-2008, 08:05 PM
Fucking overdraft.

I get paid on a thursday. So sometimes when I'm ready to make a big purchase I'll make it on a thursday. Well one time I bought a few things before the deposit cleared and got nailed with 200+$ worth of fees. It was on maybe 60$ worth of purchases.

Same thing happened with my income tax refund. I throw in 6k into my account, three days later I spend a couple hundred and wham...right into overdraft because no one at the bank told me they hold amounts over 5k for a business week.

Fucking shysters.

seeinred
08-15-2008, 08:17 PM
Last summer, I made a fairly sizable purchase that overdrafted my account (I made it Thursday after the banks were closed, assuming that my check the next morning would cover it). I had 7 or 8 pending charges at the time, and the last one I made was the largest. Unfortunately, I didn't know that my fucking bank clears the charges from highest to lowest, not in chronological order. So the 1st one that cleared (which was actually my last purchase) ended up putting me over, and then every single other pending charge that cleared got me another overdraft fee. It ended up being over 200 bucks in charges, and they refunded me a whopping 35 dollars of it.

Fuck banks.

Kris_LTRMa
08-15-2008, 08:44 PM
Fucking overdraft.

I get paid on a thursday. So sometimes when I'm ready to make a big purchase I'll make it on a thursday. Well one time I bought a few things before the deposit cleared and got nailed with 200+$ worth of fees. It was on maybe 60$ worth of purchases.

Same thing happened with my income tax refund. I throw in 6k into my account, three days later I spend a couple hundred and wham...right into overdraft because no one at the bank told me they hold amounts over 5k for a business week.

Fucking shysters.

General rule of thumb is don't make purchases until you're sure the deposit has cleared. Whether you call the 800# or check your balance online, it'll tell you what is in the account and what is available.

Also, when you open up a bank account, they give you a bunch of papers - the "bank rules" so to speak. It states in there that some deposits may not be available for immediate withdrawal. Not sure about your bank, but at mine, it's also posted not only by the ATM's but also by the tellers desk.

stellarcomics
08-15-2008, 08:49 PM
I literally stopped banking with PNC over this bullshit. I go with Citibank now. They give you an immediate "available balance" with no BS. It's hard for me to bounce a purchase.

weeniewawa
08-15-2008, 08:59 PM
it's funny how withdrawals go through before deposits. sneaky banks

Ballbuster1
08-15-2008, 09:03 PM
I use a local credit union. If I deposit a check that hasn't cleared yet but I have to
use that money they'll cover it free. Never needed that service.
Nice to know they'll do it though if I have a problem.

Credit Unions are way better than banks, IMO.

abudabit
08-15-2008, 10:01 PM
I use a local credit union. If I deposit a check that hasn't cleared yet but I have to
use that money they'll cover it free. Never needed that service.
Nice to know they'll do it though if I have a problem.

Credit Unions are way better than banks, IMO.

I went through 30 minutes of trying to get a human on the phone with Wamu on Thursday. Then I called their corporate and got a corporate secretary to transfer me to a banking services operator. As soon as I receive some pending $$$ I'm switching to a credit union. God knows how much money I lost to various scammer bullshit from Wamu. Fucking assholes.

Ballbuster1
08-15-2008, 10:06 PM
I went through 30 minutes of trying to get a human on the phone with Wamu on Thursday. Then I called their corporate and got a corporate secretary to transfer me to a banking services operator. As soon as I receive some pending $$$ I'm switching to a credit union. God knows how much money I lost to various scammer bullshit from Wamu. Fucking assholes.
Definately check out the cu's in your area. They are a way better place to bank than
the big companies. I'll never go back to a big name bank.

VMS
08-15-2008, 10:46 PM
I don't necessarily make all that much money (compared to how I spend), but I check my bank balances almost daily online and coordinate with a check register program on my PDA.

Combined with autopay systems and the like, I know what my balance will be on any given day for the next month, and I don't EVER go into the red on anything I spend.

When I'd go into the red for necessary purchases (ie- food/gas/pr0n), that's the only time I break out the credit card, and then I make sure I pay as much of the balance as I possibly can (that's where the being able to budget out for a month helps). My income is pretty stable and doesn't change unless there's something seriously wrong (ie- my tenants don't pay their rent at all, since I'm about a month up on my only rental property), so that makes budgeting a lot easier.

That doesn't mean I have all the money in the world to spend, but I can account for every last dime of it and can make sure I'm not getting fucked on any of it, which is all you can really ask for these days.

Hydrosludge
08-15-2008, 10:58 PM
I use a local credit union. If I deposit a check that hasn't cleared yet but I have to
use that money they'll cover it free. Never needed that service.
Nice to know they'll do it though if I have a problem.

Credit Unions are way better than banks, IMO.

Credit Unions seem to be more honest to deal with.

The system I use takes a good balance in your checking account. I use a credit card for everything and the bank automatically pays the balance every month.

HummerTuesdays
08-15-2008, 11:30 PM
I don't pay fees. I have a credit line linked to my checking account. No fees, unless I don't pay it in full before the end of the month. The interest rate is high, but it's still less than getting wacked with all the fees. And the high rate makes me want to pay it off anyway.

TreeFortRichard
08-16-2008, 12:26 AM
I will NEVER understand why anyone is using a debit card. Use a credit card. You get more protection, no locked up $100 for $30 worth of gas...no overdraft. If you are responsible, charge everything, get rewards points, and pay it off each month like I do :)

ChrisC_EIT
08-16-2008, 01:45 PM
If you're banking at either or BofA, Wells Fargo, or WaMu, you're an idiot. Aside from credit unions, there's almost always a local bank that can offer the same banking services while at the same time offer a friendly person to deal with your problems.

As for overdraft "protection", it's absolutely an attack on the banks poorest customers and while I don't care to call it a crime - it's morally reprehensible at best. Every bank does it, but I'm sure most (if not all) will allow their customers to opt out. When my bank instituted it, they included the protection amount in the balance at the ATM. Instead of spending the money I didn't have I asked the bank about it and then opted out. There's no need to pay an extra $35 for much of anything that I'd daily on a daily (or even monthly) basis. There's little embarrassment in having an ATM card refused, really, and if it's important enough, I'll pay for the purchase in credit.

Turfmower
08-16-2008, 03:57 PM
Big banks will fuck you over every time. When I got my first checking account it was with local bank they where bought by First National of Central Jersey, then Nat west, then bank of America. a friend of mine is still with them and he get reamed out the ass by them. My bank still pays on uncollected funds as long as it in there by 3:00 you can write checks or use check card.

If you using your check card do the transaction as credit it will take longer for it to go though debit it taken out of you account right a way.

When an over draft hits you credit line pay it off in next day online and you will only be charged one days interest.

AIDShumor
08-17-2008, 03:19 AM
Key Bank gave me $1000.00 for over draft protection. If I pay it back in two weeks I have no fees it's very nice.

mascan42
08-17-2008, 08:30 AM
I transfer money from my ING online account to my checking account right after the interest accrues for the month. Unfortunately, my rent is due on the first of the month. If the landlady cashes the check too fast, I hit a negative balance a few hours before the transfer goes through (I guess the easy fix would be to give her the check on the 2nd of the month). It's really ING's fault for taking too long, but it happens so rarely that overdraft protection wouldn't be worth it.

DrumCorpsAlum
08-17-2008, 11:20 AM
I keep track of all of my finances online. Anytime I make a payment via debit card, I save the receipt. I record those receipts on a chart I keep, hard copy. This also is the same for transferring money to my savings account. I have the option to have money from my savings if I go too low, but I simply don't buy things unless I physically have the money in my account, nothing pending. I never pay for anything with money that hasn't gone through yet.

foyb
08-17-2008, 12:02 PM
Credit Unions are way better than banks, IMO.

x2
My savings account is my overdraft protection. If I spend too much, they just pull the money out of my savings account to cover the charges. I also get all of their services for free since my paycheck is direct deposited. The biggest plus for me is even when I call their 800 number, I'm directed to a real person at the closest branch.

DanaReevesLungs
08-17-2008, 05:48 PM
I have my checking account protected by my savings account and my money market account. Savings account is first in line and then it will use the money market account. I just never let my checking go down low enough to ever overdraft.

DeltaPin
08-17-2008, 06:48 PM
I will NEVER understand why anyone is using a debit card. Use a credit card. You get more protection, no locked up $100 for $30 worth of gas...no overdraft. If you are responsible, charge everything, get rewards points, and pay it off each month like I do :)

x2

oandapartycock
08-18-2008, 12:11 AM
I literally stopped banking with PNC over this bullshit. I go with Citibank now. They give you an immediate "available balance" with no BS. It's hard for me to bounce a purchase.

I've been with Bank of America for years and get the same deal. All deposits are credited immediately whether they're check or cash. You can even deposit into an ATM until 8pm and still have it credited the same day.

If your bank is fucking you around, call and threaten to switch banks. They will bend over backwards to keep you.

Sparkstalker
08-18-2008, 12:47 AM
I will NEVER understand why anyone is using a debit card. Use a credit card. You get more protection, no locked up $100 for $30 worth of gas...no overdraft. If you are responsible, charge everything, get rewards points, and pay it off each month like I do :)

:clap: Amen, brotha.

One other thing - with a debit card, if it gets stolen - that's your money, not the bank's. How much of a hurry do you think they'll be to replace it?

Exactly.

weakside
08-18-2008, 01:07 AM
I will NEVER understand why anyone is using a debit card. Use a credit card. You get more protection, no locked up $100 for $30 worth of gas...no overdraft. If you are responsible, charge everything, get rewards points, and pay it off each month like I do :)

x2

:clap: Amen, brotha.

One other thing - with a debit card, if it gets stolen - that's your money, not the bank's. How much of a hurry do you think they'll be to replace it?

Exactly.

X4 To hell with a debit card, that is just asking for trouble.

In fact I hardly ever carry cash and use my credit cards for everything and just pay off the balance every month.