Army suicides surpass civilian suicides for first time

[abudabit]

WASHINGTON - Soldier suicides this year could surpass the record rate of last year, Army officials said Thursday, urging military leaders at all levels to redouble prevention efforts for a force strained by two wars.

As of the end of August, there were 62 confirmed suicides among active duty soldiers and Guard and Reserve troops called to active duty, officials said. Another 31 deaths appear to be suicides but are still being investigated.

If all are confirmed, that means that the number for 2008 could eclipse the 115 of last year — and the rate per 100,000 could surpass that of the civilian population, Col. Eddie Stephens, deputy director of human resources policy, said at a Pentagon news conference.

"Army leaders are fully aware that repeated deployments have led to increased distress and anxiety for both soldiers and their families," Army Secretary Pete Geren said.

"The Army is committed to ensuring that all soldiers and their families receive the behavioral health care they need," he said in a statement distributed at the press conference on National Suicide Prevention Week starting Sunday.

"Installations and units across the Army have been directed to redouble their efforts in awareness and prevention training and soldier care and support services," Stephens said.

To try to stem the continually growing number of suicides, the Army already has been increasing the number of staff psychiatrists and other mental health staff as well as chaplains and bolstering programs both at home and at the battlefronts. Officials also are about to issue a new interactive video for troops and will be adding a new program on resilience to basic training starting in January, said Brig. Gen. Rhonda L. Cornum, an assistant Army surgeon general.

"There are no simple problems and there are no simple solutions," Cornum said. "There is no program that has been shown to be truly effective at preventing suicides ... Success will be the sum of a number of smaller steps."

As officials have said before, Cornum said the main factors in soldier suicides continues to be problems with their personal relationships, legal and financial issues, work problems and the repeated deployments and longer tour lengths prompted by an Afghan war entering its eighth year and Iraq campaign in its sixth.

The Army has come under unprecedented stress as the main force in the two largely ground wars

Of the confirmed deaths so far this year, three soldiers were in the Army Reserves and four in the Army National Guard.

If the overall numbers continue through December as they have been, Stephens said, they would eclipse the 115 of 2007, 102 in 2006, 87 in 2005 and 67 in 2004.

The rate per 100,000 soldiers also has been rising and could be surpassed. It was 18.1 per 100,000 last year — the highest since the Army started keeping record in 1980. That compared to a rate of 17.5 in 2006 and 9.8 in 2002 — the first full year after the start of the war in Afghanistan.

The rate for 2008 has not been calculated, officials said, but if the trend holds, it would surpass the demographically adjusted rate of 19.5 per 100,00 for the civilian population, Stephens said.

The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention said the suicide rate for U.S. society overall was about 11 per 100,000 in 2004, the latest year for which the agency has figures. But the Army says that when civilian rates are adjusted to cover the same age and gender mix that exists in the Army — a younger and largely male population — the civilian rate is more like 19.5 per 100,000.

The Army has come under unprecedented stress as the main force in the two largely ground wars.

The Marine Corps, the second biggest force in Iraq — and even younger and more male than the Army — had a rate of 16.5 per 100,000 in 1007, the last year readily available. The Air Force and Navy had rates of a little over 10 per 100,000, according to defense records.

Col. Carl Castro, director of military operational medical research for the Army, said that in addition to the many programs officials are trying, there needs to be a cultural shift in the military to get people to focus more on mental health and fitness.

"It takes some time ... to get a cultural shift," he said "Sometimes they take decades."

In addition to suicide prevention programs, the Pentagon also has been working to encourage troops to seek mental health care by reducing the stigma associated with getting help. Officials believe many who need help don't get it because they fear it will hurt their careers.

Officials last year also budgeted $25 million for the "Strong Bonds" program, run by chaplains and aimed at strengthening personal relationships strained by long and repeated separations as well as other stresses.

Suicides are just the tip of the iceberg when it comes to unhappiness.

[nataskaos]

pssssssssssst.
NO ONE GIVES A FUCK ABOUT VETERANS!
every single time I go to the VA hospital for a reevaluation or to get my records or whatever, it's like the land that fucking time forgot.
30 year old dudes that could really use some fucking help that are just numbers in a system. Much like the court system in this country, the VA program is a joke. A FUCKING JOKE and every single person in Washington right now, be they democrat or republican, should be fucking ashamed of themselves. THIS, and I mean it, is the precise fucking reason NEITHER of the scumbags that are running in this election will get my vote. Both of them have allowed funding of VA establishments to decline. Veteran benefits have almost vanished in the last 6 years. I've experienced it first hand.

I spit in the face of all of those cunts in washington for allowing this to happen.

/soapbox

[abudabit]

Soldiers are like pet turtles to the government.

[Motor Head]

The VA - Fuck that place, I (USAF) never go there. My dad (USMC) never goes there and my poor uncle (ARMY) was treated like shit, left to sit in his own shit and piss for hours and the medical staff were a bunch of flunkies and junkies.

There is no money in taking care of veterans. The only way veterans would get treated well is if they privatized the medical system for them. It is a national shame how bad veterans hospitals are, and old vets homes. FUCKING SHAMEFUL!!

The last time I was at the VA to see my uncle before he died, he couldn't even watch TV because it was broken. His roomate was a Vietnam vet being treated for cancer (gutted him like a fish) could only get 3 channels and all three of them had a bad picture.

[Glenn Dandy]

Easily solved private Pyle... Join my beloved corps.

[THE FEZ MAN]

pssssssssssst.
NO ONE GIVES A FUCK ABOUT VETERANS!
every single time I go to the VA hospital for a reevaluation or to get my records or whatever, it's like the land that fucking time forgot.
30 year old dudes that could really use some fucking help that are just numbers in a system. Much like the court system in this country, the VA program is a joke. A FUCKING JOKE and every single person in Washington right now, be they democrat or republican, should be fucking ashamed of themselves. THIS, and I mean it, is the precise fucking reason NEITHER of the scumbags that are running in this election will get my vote. Both of them have allowed funding of VA establishments to decline. Veteran benefits have almost vanished in the last 6 years. I've experienced it first hand.

I spit in the face of all of those cunts in washington for allowing this to happen.

/soapbox

i will stand on your soapbox with you. when my father was diagnosed with bone cancer i tried to talk him into going to the VA because his cancer was a direct result of exposure to agent orange, well, he went down, sat there for an hour or two, then left... his reason, the fucking jack ass in line in front of him was bitching about not having his "good conduct" metal on some form... as he got sicker i convinced him again to go down, this time they had the fucking BALLS, to tell him that he wasn't even in viet nam, and didn't deserve any benefits.... un fucking believable the man was stationed on a the base of operations for the loading of the shit, the fucking mountain that they turned into the port of cam rahn bay was hosed with the shit then burned to clear the vegetation. and those fucking retarded cocksuckers had the fucking BALLS to refuse him benefits..... it literally took an act of congress for him to receive any benefits, and even then i had to put the pen in his hand and hold it so he could sign his name the day before he died, so that my mother could get a piss ant 400$ a month after he died. the system is complete horseshit and an embarrassment.

also a very good friend of mine's wife is a doctor in the army, she was stationed at walter reed during the time when it was a complete shit hole (and still is) she tried to resign her commission three times because of the deplorable conditions there, they finaly transferd her to iraq to shut her up and punnish her for speeking out against them.

[Glenn Dandy]

my dad gets me free heartburn pills? i dunno.


no seriously... i have worked with vets.... it is bullshit....

America can do a better job on vets and the crazy.....one thing i hate about this cunt ry is religious letter writing dillholes get president over real causes.

[THE FEZ MAN]

my dad gets me free heartburn pills? i dunno.


no seriously... i have worked with vets.... it is bullshit....

America can do a better job on vets and the crazy.....one thing i hate about this cunt ry is religious letter writing dillholes get president over real causes.



heart burn pills provided buy the lowest bidder :icon_roll

[bethm1b]

My father won't go to the VA hospital either and he has no other coverage. He'd rather pay the bill himself. I agree with whoever said it above, people can't get behind a real cause because they're too busy being outraged by inane shit. Writing letters about someone saying POOPIE on the radio is the least of it.

[Absolutely]

Usa! Usa! Usa! Usa! Usa! Usa! Usa! Usa! Usa! Usa! Usa! Usa! Usa! Usa! Usa! Usa! Usa! Usa! Usa! Usa! Usa! Usa! Usa! Usa! Usa! Usa! Usa! Usa! Usa! Usa! Usa! Usa! Usa! Usa! Usa! Usa!

[d0uche_n0zzle]

This country has abused the Veterans of all wars for far too long. Every time they make promises and then fuck them over and out of benefits.

[BIV]

This should reach across party bullshit. Both sides want better VA but no one does shit about it. It's a God Damn joke. You should get off the plane and be handed an insurance card and vouchers for a lifetime of counseling.

You know what the worst part is? It's a hell of a lot better than it used to be.

[DonTheTrucker]

Illegal aliens get better care than vets.

Every country in the history of the world has forgotten those who fight their wars. But as long as political parties can gain political points blaming the other side for the problem nothing will get done.

What we need is a leader who doesn't give a shit what the idiots out there think, because the average person is stupid.

[Motor Head]

McCain voted against raising veteran benefits....I have no idea if this is true, but it is allover the fucking internet. Anybody have input or a source - A war veteran started screaming at McCain and had a big sign at the RNC. If this is true, the more I will spread my dissent about this election. About ready to start a HOMER SIMPSON FOR PREZ campaign.

The internet....a source for disinformation, and pedophiles looking to score.

[Zona992006]

But Mccain voted 10 against vets benifits....you know, mccain, the pow.

[Zona992006]

Illegal aliens get better care than vets.

Every country in the history of the world has forgotten those who fight their wars. But as long as political parties can gain political points blaming the other side for the problem nothing will get done.

What we need is a leader who doesn't give a shit what the idiots out there think, because the average person is stupid.

agreed...the average VOTER is a moron...

Look it up trucker. Mccain voted AGAINST THE VETs benifits, TEN TIMES...I dont get this...and a lot of service men know this now.

There are plenty of vets groups who are informed about McCain who are against him. Do you think your thoughts about mccain and the vets are more informed than the average guy at a VFW.

I am a memeber of one, and I know what they say. Fuck McCain.

[Zona992006]

My father won't go to the VA hospital either and he has no other coverage. He'd rather pay the bill himself. I agree with whoever said it above, people can't get behind a real cause because they're too busy being outraged by inane shit. Writing letters about someone saying POOPIE on the radio is the least of it.

That really is territorial..in san diego, the hospital there is fantastic. Seriously...they take care of the vets there....cant speak on anywhere else though.

[Mr. Joshua]

But Mccain voted 10 against vets benifit.


Why?

[THE FEZ MAN]

because he's a millionaire politician that will NEVER need the services of the VA, its more important to piss money away on weapon systems than it is to care for the warrior

[Sack of Chisels]

USA! UsA! USA! USA!

[BIV]

Look it up trucker. Mccain voted AGAINST THE VETs benifits, TEN TIMES...I dont get this...and a lot of service men know this now.

I'd like to see what riders were on those bills. Most of the time when politicians get caught on this shit, on both sides BTW, it's because the riders were so ridiculous that there was no way the bill would get enough votes.

[THE FEZ MAN]

I'd like to see what riders were on those bills. Most of the time when politicians get caught on this shit, on both sides BTW, it's because the riders were so ridiculous that there was no way the bill would get enough votes.

that's what a line item veto is for.......

[Mr. Joshua]

because he's a millionaire politician that will NEVER need the services of the VA, its more important to piss money away on weapon systems than it is to care for the warrior

Doesn't look like an informed answer to me.

Now why did he really vote against? What were the particulars? Has anyone done their homework on this issue they're quick to comment on?

[DonTheTrucker]

agreed...the average VOTER is a moron...

Look it up trucker. Mccain voted AGAINST THE VETs benifits, TEN TIMES...I dont get this...and a lot of service men know this now.

There are plenty of vets groups who are informed about McCain who are against him. Do you think your thoughts about mccain and the vets are more informed than the average guy at a VFW.

I am a memeber of one, and I know what they say. Fuck McCain.

And I'm sure your boy would do so much better considering he won't even visit vets in a hospital unless there are reporters there to give him press for it.

As much as you like to spew the left's talking points, do you REALLY think McCain doesn't like vets? Or do you possibly think that there may have been something else in that bill that he didn't like? Bridge to nowhere? $10 million to study the mating habits of gay Eskimos?

Face it, the VA is an imperfect system and needs a lot more than it's getting. But to blame one single person, or one party for it is ridiculous.

[DonTheTrucker]

I'd like to see what riders were on those bills. Most of the time when politicians get caught on this shit, on both sides BTW, it's because the riders were so ridiculous that there was no way the bill would get enough votes.

Of course thats why ANY person in congress would vote against VA benefits. Even the most liberal of politicians knows better than to vote straight up against benefits for vets.

that's what a line item veto is for.......

I used to support the idea of line item veto, but I'm not so sure now. I kind of have a suspicion that under an Obama presidency, the only things that would get funded would be extreme left social programs.

[Mr. Joshua]

I kind of have a suspicion that under an Obama presidency, the only things that would get funded would be extreme left social programs.

Absolutely. The most liberal/socialist ticket since.....ever?

[lokimanahan]

And I'm sure your boy would do so much better considering he won't even visit vets in a hospital unless there are reporters there to give him press for it.

As much as you like to spew the left's talking points, do you REALLY think McCain doesn't like vets? Or do you possibly think that there may have been something else in that bill that he didn't like? Bridge to nowhere? $10 million to study the mating habits of gay Eskimos?


If you want to accuse people of spewing the left's talking points, perhaps it might be a good starting point to not spew the right's talking points yourself, which is precisely what that first paragraph there is. I mean, if you want to keep repeating that, knock yourself out but, for fuck's sake, at least admit that you're all spewing half truths and spin fed by both parties. There's plenty to criticize all the candidates without resorting to shit that is factually false, and demonstrably so.

[DonTheTrucker]

If you want to accuse people of spewing the left's talking points, perhaps it might be a good starting point to not spew the right's talking points yourself, which is precisely what that first paragraph there is. I mean, if you want to keep repeating that, knock yourself out but, for fuck's sake, at least admit that you're all spewing half truths and spin fed by both parties. There's plenty to criticize all the candidates without resorting to shit that is factually false, and demonstrably so.

What's false? Senator Hessein Obama was in German and didn't go to visit the soldiers there.

[lokimanahan]

What's false? Senator Hessein Obama was in German and didn't go to visit the soldiers there.

Because it had nothing to do with the not being able to use it as a press opportunity, which is what you said, is what a McCain ad says, and is what the right wingers have been repeating ad nauseum since the event. They also conveniently leave out any mention of the fact that he'd visited with wounded troops in Iraq some five days earlier, unannounced, without an entourage or any press present, either.

[Zona992006]

Why?

He voted against the vet's benifits because he is a Maverick...:icon_surp

[Zona992006]

And I'm sure your boy would do so much better considering he won't even visit vets in a hospital unless there are reporters there to give him press for it.

As much as you like to spew the left's talking points, do you REALLY think McCain doesn't like vets? Or do you possibly think that there may have been something else in that bill that he didn't like? Bridge to nowhere? $10 million to study the mating habits of gay Eskimos?

Face it, the VA is an imperfect system and needs a lot more than it's getting. But to blame one single person, or one party for it is ridiculous.
It is hard to blame one single person for how the government is fucking over vets, but McCain sure aint no damn help...

http://www.veteransforcommonsense.org/articleid/9559


McCain's Voting Record: He Does Not Support Our Troops and Veterans


In mid 2007, Senator Reid noted that McCain missed 10 of the past 14 votes on Iraq. However, here is a summary of a dozen votes (two that he missed and ten that he voted against) with respect to Iraq, funding for veterans or for troops, including equipment and armor. I have also included other snippets related to the time period when the vote occurred.

September 2007: McCain voted against the Webb amendment calling for adequate troop rest between deployments. At the time, nearly 65% of people polled in a CNN poll indicted that "things are going either moderately badly or very badly in Iraq.

July 2007: McCain voted against a plan to drawdown troop levels in Iraq. At the time, an ABC poll found that 63% thought the invasion was not worth it, and a CBS News poll found that 72% of respondents wanted troops out within 2 years.

March 2007: McCain was too busy to vote on a bill that would require the start of a drawdown in troop levels within 120 days with a goal of withdrawing nearly all combat troops within one year. Around this time, an NBC News poll found that 55% of respondents indicated that the US goal of achieving victory in Iraq is not possible. This number has not moved significantly since then.

February 2007: For such a strong supporter of the escalation, McCain didn’t even bother to show up and vote against a resolution condemning it. However, at the time a CNN poll found that only 16% of respondents wanted to send more troops to Iraq (that number has since declined to around 10%), while 60% said that some or all should be withdrawn. This number has since gone up to around 70%.

June 2006: McCain voted against a resolution that Bush start withdrawing troops but with no timeline to do so.

May 2006: McCain voted against an amendment that would provide $20 million to the Department of Veterans Affairs (VA) for health care facilities.

April 2006: McCain was one of only 13 Senators to vote against $430,000,000 for the Department of Veteran Affairs for Medical Services for outpatient care and treatment for veterans.

March 2006: McCain voted against increasing Veterans medical services funding by $1.5 billion in FY 2007 to be paid for by closing corporate tax loopholes.

March 2004: McCain once again voted for abusive tax loopholes over veterans when he voted against creating a reserve fund to allow for an increase in Veterans' medical care by $1.8 billion by eliminating abusive tax loopholes. Jeez, McCain really loves those tax loopholes for corporations, since he voted for them over our veterans' needs.

October 2003: McCain voted to table an amendment by Senator Dodd that called for an additional $322,000,000 for safety equipment for United States forces in Iraq and to reduce the amount provided for reconstruction in Iraq by $322,000,000.

April 2003: McCain urged other Senate members to table a vote (which never passed) to provide more than $1 billion for National Guard and Reserve equipment in Iraq related to a shortage of helmets, tents, bullet-proof inserts, and tactical vests.

August 2001: McCain voted against increasing the amount available for medical care for veterans by $650,000,000. To his credit, he also voted against the 2001 Bush tax cuts, which he now supports making permanent, despite the dire financial condition this country is in, and despite the fact that he indicated in 2001 that these tax cuts unfairly benefited the very wealthy at the expense of the middle class.

Everything above this are facts, below was thier persepective on McCain. There are a lot of vet groups out there who dont like McCain, I wonder why...

So there it is. John McCain is yet another republican former military veteran who likes to talk a big game when it comes to having the support of the military. Yet, time and time again, he has gone out of his way to vote against the needs of those who are serving in our military. If he can’t even see his way to actually doing what the troops want, or what the veterans need, and he doesn’t have the support of veterans, then how can he be a credible commander in chief?


Trucker, comments?

[Zona992006]

Don the Trucker comment bump.

[THE FEZ MAN]

Doesn't look like an informed answer to me.

Now why did he really vote against? What were the particulars? Has anyone done their homework on this issue they're quick to comment on?

sorry im not wasting my weekend chasing my tail trying to prove you wrong, but, i did do a little digging.... on the last 6 veterans affairs issues he had 3 NV and 3 No's....( http://www.votesmart.org/voting_category.php?can_id=53270 ) so im sticking to my guns and my opinion, which is; if your not directly effected buy the major parts of the bill, your going to vote against it for what ever frivolous reason that your aids point out to you, including who sponsored the bill, so in my mind, mc cain, a millionaire, whom doesn't pay for his health insurance because he is a senator, has the luxury to vote no on what ever he wants.
you can BET that if he relied on the VA for his health care (and the last time i checked he has a few medical problems) he would be more willing to compromise on what ever issue that he (or his aids) deemed frivolous.


as for the line item veto.... that was suggested buy Regan.... and used effectively buy (shudder) Clinton to balance the budget, yet struck down my the supreme court as unconstitutional, to assume that Obama would abuse the power anymore than any other president is just more scare tactic bull shit, and i dont buy it.

[Zona992006]

Trucker, comments?

[Stormrider666]

Because it had nothing to do with the not being able to use it as a press opportunity, which is what you said, is what a McCain ad says, and is what the right wingers have been repeating ad nauseum since the event. They also conveniently leave out any mention of the fact that he'd visited with wounded troops in Iraq some five days earlier, unannounced, without an entourage or any press present, either.

Obama also visited Walter Reed Hospital a couple of months prior to his overseas trip.


I'm sorry, I don't care how many so called frivolus issues may have been in the bill, there is no reason why McCain or any other member of Congress should have voted against the G.I. Bill that was sponsored by Jim Webb.

[WOWmagnet]

Um, IMHO a guy who lost both legs in Iraq (for example) should have all his bills, housing, medical/psychological etc, etc, etc taken care of FOR LIFE.

[THE FEZ MAN]

Um, IMHO a guy who lost both legs in Iraq (for example) should have all his bills, housing, medical/psychological etc, etc, etc taken care of FOR LIFE.

you mean that your not supposed to get a bill for the Humvee that you wrecked when it ran over a mine?

[Zona992006]

It is hard to blame one single person for how the government is fucking over vets, but McCain sure aint no damn help...

http://www.veteransforcommonsense.org/articleid/9559


McCain's Voting Record: He Does Not Support Our Troops and Veterans


In mid 2007, Senator Reid noted that McCain missed 10 of the past 14 votes on Iraq. However, here is a summary of a dozen votes (two that he missed and ten that he voted against) with respect to Iraq, funding for veterans or for troops, including equipment and armor. I have also included other snippets related to the time period when the vote occurred.

September 2007: McCain voted against the Webb amendment calling for adequate troop rest between deployments. At the time, nearly 65% of people polled in a CNN poll indicted that "things are going either moderately badly or very badly in Iraq.

July 2007: McCain voted against a plan to drawdown troop levels in Iraq. At the time, an ABC poll found that 63% thought the invasion was not worth it, and a CBS News poll found that 72% of respondents wanted troops out within 2 years.

March 2007: McCain was too busy to vote on a bill that would require the start of a drawdown in troop levels within 120 days with a goal of withdrawing nearly all combat troops within one year. Around this time, an NBC News poll found that 55% of respondents indicated that the US goal of achieving victory in Iraq is not possible. This number has not moved significantly since then.

February 2007: For such a strong supporter of the escalation, McCain didn’t even bother to show up and vote against a resolution condemning it. However, at the time a CNN poll found that only 16% of respondents wanted to send more troops to Iraq (that number has since declined to around 10%), while 60% said that some or all should be withdrawn. This number has since gone up to around 70%.

June 2006: McCain voted against a resolution that Bush start withdrawing troops but with no timeline to do so.

May 2006: McCain voted against an amendment that would provide $20 million to the Department of Veterans Affairs (VA) for health care facilities.

April 2006: McCain was one of only 13 Senators to vote against $430,000,000 for the Department of Veteran Affairs for Medical Services for outpatient care and treatment for veterans.

March 2006: McCain voted against increasing Veterans medical services funding by $1.5 billion in FY 2007 to be paid for by closing corporate tax loopholes.

March 2004: McCain once again voted for abusive tax loopholes over veterans when he voted against creating a reserve fund to allow for an increase in Veterans' medical care by $1.8 billion by eliminating abusive tax loopholes. Jeez, McCain really loves those tax loopholes for corporations, since he voted for them over our veterans' needs.

October 2003: McCain voted to table an amendment by Senator Dodd that called for an additional $322,000,000 for safety equipment for United States forces in Iraq and to reduce the amount provided for reconstruction in Iraq by $322,000,000.

April 2003: McCain urged other Senate members to table a vote (which never passed) to provide more than $1 billion for National Guard and Reserve equipment in Iraq related to a shortage of helmets, tents, bullet-proof inserts, and tactical vests.

August 2001: McCain voted against increasing the amount available for medical care for veterans by $650,000,000. To his credit, he also voted against the 2001 Bush tax cuts, which he now supports making permanent, despite the dire financial condition this country is in, and despite the fact that he indicated in 2001 that these tax cuts unfairly benefited the very wealthy at the expense of the middle class.

Everything above this are facts, below was thier persepective on McCain. There are a lot of vet groups out there who dont like McCain, I wonder why...

So there it is. John McCain is yet another republican former military veteran who likes to talk a big game when it comes to having the support of the military. Yet, time and time again, he has gone out of his way to vote against the needs of those who are serving in our military. If he can’t even see his way to actually doing what the troops want, or what the veterans need, and he doesn’t have the support of veterans, then how can he be a credible commander in chief?


Trucker, comments?

Mccain does not repsect vets bump....Don the Trucker..comments?

[nataskaos]

Mccain does not repsect vets bump....Don the Trucker..comments?

of fucking course not.
why would people discuss voting based on issues?
we're too bust creating threads about slips of the tongue and pregnant daughters.

grab your fucking cotton candy kids.

[nataskaos]

no response to this, but 200 stories about nothing huh?

see, no one cares about vets.