McCain's Integrity - (post by Andrew Sullivan)

[moegolden]

This is interesting and apparently freshly posted....this guy is supposedly the single biggest blogger there is, and a gay libertarian conservative one at that.

http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2008/09/mccains-integri.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_Sullivan
http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/

McCain's Integrity

10 Sep 2008 01:40 pm

For me, this surreal moment - like the entire surrealism of the past ten days - is not really about Sarah Palin or Barack Obama or pigs or fish or lipstick. It's about John McCain. The one thing I always thought I knew about him is that he is a decent and honest person. When he knows, as every sane person must, that Obama did not in any conceivable sense mean that Sarah Palin is a pig, what did he do? Did he come out and say so and end this charade? Or did he acquiesce in and thereby enable the mindless Rovianism that is now the core feature of his campaign?

So far, he has let us all down. My guess is he will continue to do so. And that decision, for my part, ends whatever respect I once had for him. On core moral issues, where this man knew what the right thing was, and had to pick between good and evil, he chose evil. When he knew that George W. Bush's war in Iraq was a fiasco and catastrophe, and before Donald Rumsfeld quit, McCain endorsed George W. Bush against his fellow Vietnam vet, John Kerry in 2004. By that decision, McCain lost any credibility that he can ever put country first. He put party first and his own career first ahead of what he knew was best for the country.

And when the Senate and House voted overwhelmingly to condemn and end the torture regime of Bush and Cheney in 2006, McCain again had a clear choice between good and evil, and chose evil.

He capitulated and enshrined torture as the policy of the United States, by allowing the CIA to use techniques as bad as and worse than the torture inflicted on him in Vietnam. He gave the war criminals in the White House retroactive immunity against the prosecution they so richly deserve. The enormity of this moral betrayal, this betrayal of his country's honor, has yet to sink in. But for my part, it now makes much more sense. He is not the man I thought he was.

And when he had the chance to engage in a real and substantive debate against the most talented politician of the next generation in a fall campaign where vital issues are at stake, what did McCain do? He began his general campaign with a series of grotesque, trivial and absurd MTV-style attacks on Obama's virtues and implied disgusting things about his opponent's patriotism.

And then, because he could see he was going to lose, ten days ago, he threw caution to the wind and with no vetting whatsoever, picked a woman who, by her decision to endure her own eight-month pregnancy of a Down Syndrome child in public, that he was going to reignite the culture war as a last stand against Obama. That's all that is happening right now: a massive bump in the enthusiasm of the Christianist base. This is pure Rove.

Yes, McCain made a decision that revealed many appalling things about him. In the end, his final concern is not national security. No one who cares about national security would pick as vice-president someone who knows nothing about it as his replacement. No one who cares about this country's safety would gamble the security of the world on a total unknown because she polled well with the Christianist base. No person who truly believed that the surge was integral to this country's national security would pick as his veep candidate a woman who, so far as we can tell anything, opposed it at the time.

McCain has demonstrated in the last two months that he does not have the character to be president of the United States. And that is why it is more important than ever to ensure that Barack Obama is the next president. The alternative is now unthinkable. And McCain - no one else - has proved it.

[jimmyslostchin]

Andrew Sullivan is a fucking douche cunt. Don't believe any hype that he's "conservative" or "right leaning." The guy was pushing the fucking Trig trutherism theories and unfounded Daily Kos diary headlines as actual news stories.

He's fucking clown shoes.

[DonTheTrucker]

Andrew Sullivan is a fucking douche cunt. Don't believe any hype that he's "conservative" or "right leaning." The guy was pushing the fucking Trig trutherism theories and unfounded Daily Kos diary headlines as actual news stories.

He's fucking clown shoes.
This guy is a well paid version of the people who lie to call screeners to get through and bash the guy the host supports. If he were posting on a board we'd call him a troll.

[BloodyDiaper]

This is interesting and apparently freshly posted....this guy is supposedly the single biggest blogger there is, and a gay libertarian conservative one at that.

http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2008/09/mccains-integri.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_Sullivan
http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/


:clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap:

I'm sure this will turn into a bash Andrew Sullivan thread mostly because no rational person can deny the facts he lays out and the inescapable conclusion that follows from them - that McCain is a dishonorable bag of shit with zero integrity. This shows how stupid "values voters" are - they're going to vote for a guy that no longer has any.

[WoodenPlank]

:clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap:

I'm sure this will turn into a bash Andrew Sullivan thread mostly because no rational person can deny the facts he lays out and the inescapable conclusion that follows from them - that McCain is a dishonorable bag of shit with zero integrity. This shows how stupid "values voters" are - they're going to vote for a guy that no longer has any.

And Obama is any better? Sure, hanging out with people that have proven ties to terrorism, america-hating black militants, and various other criminals and threats to american security is REALLY the moral high ground.....:icon_roll

[DonTheTrucker]

All politicians lie. This is fact. McCain is lying to get elected. Obama is lying to get elected. Bob Barr and Ron Paul lie to get votes.

The question is what will the guy do when he gets the job? At least we can be fairly sure that McCain isn't going to tax and spend is into record deficits and we can be fairly sure he won't let every petty dictator in the world acquire nukes that they can use to blackmail or terrorize is. We can't say that about Obama. In fact we can be sure that's exactly what he would do. Barack Hussein Obama must not be allowed to be commander in chief.

[BloodyDiaper]

And Obama is any better?

Yes, he is.


The question is what will the guy do when he gets the job? At least we can be fairly sure that McCain isn't going to tax and spend is into record deficits and we can be fairly sure he won't let every petty dictator in the world acquire nukes that they can use to blackmail or terrorize is. We can't say that about Obama. In fact we can be sure that's exactly what he would do.

Nope.

...
First Round to Obama
So where does the reality lie? According to a new analysis by the nonpartisan Tax Policy Center, a joint venture between the Urban Institute and the Brookings Institution, two Washington think tanks, this round goes to Obama. The TPC took a look at the various tax proposals put forth by the two candidates and estimated that Obama's plan would lead to a boost in aftertax income for all but the highest earners, while taking a smaller bite out of government tax revenues than would McCain's plans.

...

Leaving the Treasury Short
By contrast, even using the more favorable comparison, McCain's proposed tax changes would still leave the Treasury coming up short. According to the study, McCain's combined proposals would slash tax revenues by an estimated $253 billion over the 10-year period compared with what would come in under current tax policy.

http://www.businessweek.com/bwdaily/dnflash/content/jun2008/db20080611_220050.htm

As for the nuke claim, Obama has actually co-authored legislation that strengthens nuclear non-proliferation tactics- McCain hasn't done jack shit about it. Also, the Bush/McCain foreign policy has actually encouraged regimes like Iran to accelerate their nuclear programs so that, unlike Iraq, they can deter US aggression.

[DonTheTrucker]

Yes, he is.



Nope.



As for the nuke claim, Obama has actually co-authored legislation that strengthens nuclear non-proliferation tactics- McCain hasn't done jack shit about it. Also, the Bush/McCain foreign policy has actually encouraged regimes like Iran to accelerate their nuclear programs so that, unlike Iraq, they can deter US aggression.

You're mental if you believe that Obama would be tougher on anything than McCain. And if you believe that ANYONE is getting a tax cut under an Obama administration you're just gullible.

I guess we've found a new kool aid drinker to beat up on now that zona is gone...

[DanaReevesLungs]

All politicians lie. This is fact. McCain is lying to get elected. Obama is lying to get elected. Bob Barr and Ron Paul lie to get votes.

The question is what will the guy do when he gets the job? At least we can be fairly sure that McCain isn't going to tax and spend is into record deficits and we can be fairly sure he won't let every petty dictator in the world acquire nukes that they can use to blackmail or terrorize is. We can't say that about Obama. In fact we can be sure that's exactly what he would do. Barack Hussein Obama must not be allowed to be commander in chief.

We're already there. No one can do as bad as Bush, hopefully. But I wouldn't let McCain slide and say he'll not spend like Bush has. We don't know, no one does. No one thought Bush would do the spending he's done. Oh, and 9/11 wasn't an excuse to go on a taxpayer funded spending spree either.

I'm glad you're in McCain's and Obama's heads with knowing exactly what they'll do and not do in their years of being President. Why aren't you FOX's or CNN's top political advisor?

[moegolden]

Don, you come off as an idealogue that thinks republicans can do no wrong. sometimes you say that you don't believe everything they say, but your posts don't reflect that.

that's not an attack on you, just an observation. as for denying anyone will get tax cuts, are you DonTheEconomist? i'm not either, but i think what is gullible is blindly writing off every single word obama says...both sides count on blind believers to get elected. sometimes you just gotta decide what is best to do in this particular instance.

I'm no blind believer.

[BloodyDiaper]

You're mental if you believe that Obama would be tougher on anything than McCain. And if you believe that ANYONE is getting a tax cut under an Obama administration you're just gullible.

I guess we've found a new kool aid drinker to beat up on now that zona is gone...


I don't care how "tough" McCain is alleged to be - he's an idiot on foreign policy, an ignoramous on domestic policy, and he's willing to lie shamelessly about his and his opponent's record.

Obama is not even close to perfect, but he is profoundly better than McCain in all those areas. And Obama's a good man, something McCain is not.

[CousinDave]

I don't care how "tough" McCain is alleged to be - he's an idiot on foreign policy, an ignoramous on domestic policy, and he's willing to lie shamelessly about his and his opponent's record.

Obama is not even close to perfect, but he is profoundly better than McCain in all those areas. And Obama's a good man, something McCain is not.


Obama is a fraud.

[WoodenPlank]

I don't care how "tough" McCain is alleged to be - he's an idiot on foreign policy, an ignoramous on domestic policy, and he's willing to lie shamelessly about his and his opponent's record.

Obama is not even close to perfect, but he is profoundly better than McCain in all those areas. And Obama's a good man, something McCain is not.

Jesus, you are drinking the Kool Aid...
First, Obama wants to NEGOTIATE with countries like Iran to keep them from developing nuclear arms. We see how well that worked with North Korea - theyre building another fucking reactor so they can go back to their program. Terrorist states like that dont listen to negotations, they dont listen to trade sanctions... the only thing they listen to is getting their ass spanked and told NO.
Obama's domestic policy is as misguided as his foreign - giving everyone universal health care SOUNDS great, until you realize how many people will simply exploit this system for health care they really dont need, and only go to a corrupt doctor so they can get drugs to sell on the street. Free "candy" for all the asshats out there that are already sitting around on welfare having babies and getting paid by uncle sam to do it. Give employers and health insurance companies incentives to offer low-cost health care to those that want it - but it is NOT the fucking governments responsibility (ESPECIALLY not the Fed's) to provide the health care. The entire point of the original constitution and bill of rights was to outline what the Fed would and could do - everything else was in the hands of the states and the people.
...and you REALLY think Obama hasnt lied his ass off to get where he is?
Finally, since when does a "good man" hang out with race-baiting, america-hating bigots?

[DonTheTrucker]

Don, you come off as an idealogue that thinks republicans can do no wrong. sometimes you say that you don't believe everything they say, but your posts don't reflect that.

that's not an attack on you, just an observation. as for denying anyone will get tax cuts, are you DonTheEconomist? i'm not either, but i think what is gullible is blindly writing off every single word obama says...both sides count on blind believers to get elected. sometimes you just gotta decide what is best to do in this particular instance.

I'm no blind believer.

You must not be reading well then. McCain is far from my first choice, but you take what you can get. Obama has contradicted everything he says about taxes, so you have to go by what his party has done. The last Democrat president that lowered taxes was Kennedy. There is nothing in Obama's past that would support that he would even TRY to cut taxes.

If I recall, McCain didn't support Bush's tax cuts at first. That's a negative in my book. But there is more of a chance of him not raising taxes, given the history of his party.

If I'm an idealogue, it's as a conservative not as a Republican. If Obama supported lowering taxes on EVERYONE, supported free trade, didn't support infanticide, didn't want to kowtow to every tin hat dictator and didn't already promise to cut the shit out of our military, didn't go to a black supremacist chiurch for 20 years, and didn't start his political career by hanging out with an admitted terrorist, I'd consider voting for him.

Judging by that list, even the next worst person to vote for is infinitely better than Obama. I'd vote for Hillary every day of the week and twice on Sunday before I'd vote for him. And that's saying a lot.

Is McCain perfect? Far from it. But he's FAR less flawed than his esteemed opponent.

[DonTheTrucker]

Finally, since when does a "good man" hang out with race-baiting, america-hating bigots?

The last 19 months?

[moegolden]

I'm not going to make the "good man" argument for either of them. I'm sure Bush is a good man too.

I'd focus on the fact that republican-controlled govt. has been a miserable failure domestically for the past several years to the point where even a worthy Maverick shouldn't be handed the reins simply because of the people who are closest to his ears have been so closely involved in the aforementioned failure. That's what I'd focus on. Everything else is essentially a narrative smokescreen.

[DonTheTrucker]

I'm not going to make the "good man" argument for either of them. I'm sure Bush is a good man too.

I'd focus on the fact that republican-controlled govt. has been a miserable failure domestically for the past several years to the point where even a worthy Maverick shouldn't be handed the reins simply because of the people who are closest to his ears have been so closely involved in the aforementioned failure. That's what I'd focus on. Everything else is essentially a narrative smokescreen.

Bush is a good man. He doesn't hang out with people who bomb the Pentagon. I'll even go so far as to say that Clinton (gasp!) is a good guy.

Regardless of how badly you may think things have gone the last 8 years (which ISN'T a given, despite what some in the media may think...) giving the reigns to someone who may actually want to undermine our country just to punish a guy who doesn't even LIKE the current president is just plain dumb and dangerous.

I can at least respect people who supported Clinton or Edwards or any of the other Democrat also-rans. As wrong as I think they are on issues, at least they are not hanging out with terrorists. This Obama fellow is DANGEROUS. Do you think I'd put a McCain sticker on my car if Hillary were running? No. I'd vote for McCain but I wouldn't be happy about it. Obama has made it possible for me to actually feel good about a guy I'm going to disagree with 30-40% of the time.

President Barack Hussein Obama is NOT an acceptable outcome for me.

[thekidslepthere]

I guess we've found a new kool aid drinker to beat up on now that zona is gone...

What happened to Zona?

Did I make him go away? He asked me to prove something I said about Olbermann running MSNBC, posted a link, and now he's gone?

Or did he get himself banned somehow, that guy was here for a while right?

[WoodenPlank]

What happened to Zona?

Did I make him go away? He asked me to prove something I said about Olbermann running MSNBC, posted a link, and now he's gone?

Or did he get himself banned somehow, that guy was here for a while right?

He misbehaved and got put in time out.

[EarthCrisis]

I must agree with jimmyslostchin, this gay is a bonafide pair of shiny red clownshoes.

And I love how people like bloodydiaper act like their own opinion about someone or something is the fucking authority of the world.

[BCH]

The thing that bothers me most on both sides of the WB political arena is when people link to a Blog or Editorial written by someone with an axe to grind and their attitude is like "Yeah, SEE! This guy says so and so is no good! So There!" It's kind of stupid.

no rational person can deny the facts he lays out and the inescapable conclusion that follows from them

Above, we see a classic example of the elitist Liberal attitude. Ahem:

"I know everything and what I believe is the conclusion that ANYBODY who isn't a complete and utter moron must also believe"

This is apparently not only the attitude of the author of the quoted blog post but is also the attitude of one of our illustrious members. People on the left side of the political spectrum try very hard to maintain and actually take pride in their level of elitist doucheyness, talking down to people whenever possible in an attempt to make them capitulate a point by essentially calling them stupid if they don't agree.

Then they wonder why the "Red Staters", the Blue Collar middle income rank and file don't line up behind them like the pied piper. It's because anyone with even a modicum of self respect or dignity, regardless of their education or income level, hates to be talked down to like a child and coddled by anyone, including their government.

Ronnie B Calls these people "Hayseeds" He knows better than them, hell anyone on the oh so enlightened coasts knows better than these rubes. We're all so much smarter and more worldly. After all, they shop at walmart and watch NASCAR and we let them vote? What do they know?

Uggh it's revolting.

Watch that Matt Damon video if you can actually stomach it. It's dripping with elitist doucheyness.

[jimmyslostchin]

I must agree with jimmyslostchin, this gay is a bonafide pair of shiny red clownshoes.

And I love how people like bloodydiaper act like their own opinion about someone or something is the fucking authority of the world.

I like when people with more than 500 posts agree with me. :action-sm

Ace of Spades> Andrew Sullivan.


As far as blogs go.

[Wilmington WOW]

Ronnie B Calls these people "Hayseeds" He knows better than them, hell anyone on the oh so enlightened coasts knows better than these rubes. We're all so much smarter and more worldly. After all, they shop at walmart and watch NASCAR and we let them vote? What do they know?



bashing the great ronnie b?

[BCH]

Not Bashing silly, merely pointing out how pervasive that particular attitude is.

[Vyce]

If you want to bash Ronnie B for that, bash him accurately for being a hypocrite, as he likes to talk shit a lot about how he's independent and tries to have an open mind about politics, but then he'll turn around on a dime and pull that "hayseed" shit as soon as there's someone on the air making a point he disagrees with. Or perhaps when Blowhard is on the air.

But as to the point of this thread: Andrew Sullivan? REALLY? Sorry, but the days of that douche, who seems to be in the beginning stages of AIDS-induced dementia, having any sort of credibility as a political commentator, are just about done.

He's been pouting and largely silent in the last few days because he's been so egregiously partisan and over-the-top with the Palin bashing (including heavily promoting outright lies about her that are coming straight from nutroots sites like Kos), that the Atlantic finally told him to dial it down. To which he replied by refusing to post on his blog, like a fucking child.

[moegolden]

Then they wonder why the "Red Staters", the Blue Collar middle income rank and file don't line up behind them like the pied piper. It's because anyone with even a modicum of self respect or dignity, regardless of their education or income level, hates to be talked down to like a child and coddled by anyone, including their government.



That's very accurate, but I enjoy discussing issues and opinions with others...I think that our culture is at the point where many people who give their opinions are immediately derided as elitist. I assure you there are many people that share Damon's worries about Palin that are not from Hollywood.

Cries of liberal elitism are no worse than a plutocracy of power and prestige based solely on money.

He has the right to say what he wants and we can ignore him if we want.

[MrBogey]

...by allowing the CIA to use techniques as bad as and worse than the torture inflicted on him in Vietnam

Way to be a retard.

Sullivan exists only to bash Republicans with pseudo-arguments.

[BloodyDiaper]

Jesus, you are drinking the Kool Aid...
First, Obama wants to NEGOTIATE with countries like Iran to keep them from developing nuclear arms. We see how well that worked with North Korea - theyre building another fucking reactor so they can go back to their program. Terrorist states like that dont listen to negotations, they dont listen to trade sanctions... the only thing they listen to is getting their ass spanked and told NO.

Maybe if Bush hadn't "spanked the ass" of the wrong country we would have some credibility left to resolve the problems with Iran and North Korea.


Obama's domestic policy is as misguided as his foreign - giving everyone universal health care SOUNDS great, until you realize how many people will simply exploit this system for health care they really dont need, and only go to a corrupt doctor so they can get drugs to sell on the street. Free "candy" for all the asshats out there that are already sitting around on welfare having babies and getting paid by uncle sam to do it. Give employers and health insurance companies incentives to offer low-cost health care to those that want it - but it is NOT the fucking governments responsibility (ESPECIALLY not the Fed's) to provide the health care.

Unless there is some actual evidence it would be more exploitative than the current model then your argument is horseshit.


The entire point of the original constitution and bill of rights was to outline what the Fed would and could do - everything else was in the hands of the states and the people.

Yeah, so? The Fed would and could and did do a lot of things not envisioned or imagined by the authors of the Constitution.


...and you REALLY think Obama hasnt lied his ass off to get where he is?

I'm sure he has, but so far not as brazenly, insultingly, and pathetically as McCain.


Finally, since when does a "good man" hang out with race-baiting, america-hating bigots?

Good men do not only hang around with other good men since forever. Being a good man in inner city Chicago (or in Washington for that matter) means you are necessarily going to have to live, communicate, work, and worship with and alongside people who aren't as good. I don't think Obama is racist against whites or hates America, so the fact that he personally knows some people who do think that way doesn't matter to me. It's pretty trivial as far as I am concerned. If that makes me "elitist" I don't give a shit. To me an "elitist" is someone like McCain who blatently lies to you, thinking you're not smart enough to figure out he's lying or sane enough to hold him accountable.

[MrBogey]

Maybe if Bush hadn't "spanked the ass" of the wrong country we would have some credibility left to resolve the problems with Iran and North Korea.

This of course ignores all prior history with North Korea and Iran. With Iran we are theologically aligned with the Devil and with North Korea we're ideologically aligned with oppressing them.... from their viewpoints. Iran's gov't has never and will never accept the US as an entity not aligned with evil. There never WAS any capital. North Korean propaganda videos aren't a figment either. There is no "misunderstanding" or "disagreement" that can be overcome. It's like if I felt you should be shot and you disagreed. What's the middle on that?

Maybe if foreign nations that made money off of trading Saddam weapons or food for oil hadn't opposed the Iraqi invasion they'd have some credibility in their arguments that we shouldn't be hostile towards their other trading partners in the middle east.

Being a good man in inner city Chicago (or in Washington for that matter) means you are necessarily going to have to live, communicate, work, and worship with and alongside people who aren't as good.

So his friendship with Ayers was fate? Fuck, all this time I wasted not being Timothy McVeigh's penpal.

Obama's lie is great. Champion of the poor and oppressed continuing the same policies that keep them right where he likes them to be.

[BloodyDiaper]

Above, we see a classic example of the elitist Liberal attitude. Ahem:

"I know everything and what I believe is the conclusion that ANYBODY who isn't a complete and utter moron must also believe"

This is apparently not only the attitude of the author of the quoted blog post but is also the attitude of one of our illustrious members. People on the left side of the political spectrum try very hard to maintain and actually take pride in their level of elitist doucheyness, talking down to people whenever possible in an attempt to make them capitulate a point by essentially calling them stupid if they don't agree.

So now it's elitist to look at the facts and draw obvious conclusions from them? I guess it's also elitist of me to expect someone who disagrees with my opinion on the post to actually produce evidence against Sullivan's claims to facts or point out a flaw in his logic. Sorry, but if you can't refute his argument then you have the choice of conceeding his point or looking stupid.

[Jim T.]

I guess Sullivan gave up trying to get Palin to send him a vial of amniotic fluid.

[BCH]

So now it's elitist to look at the facts and draw obvious conclusions from them? I guess it's also elitist of me to expect someone who disagrees with my opinion on the post to actually produce evidence against Sullivan's claims to facts or point out a flaw in his logic. Sorry, but if you can't refute his argument then you have the choice of conceeding his point or looking stupid.

Ok, fine.

When he knew that George W. Bush's war in Iraq was a fiasco and catastrophe, and before Donald Rumsfeld quit, McCain endorsed George W. Bush against his fellow Vietnam vet, John Kerry in 2004. By that decision, McCain lost any credibility that he can ever put country first. He put party first and his own career first ahead of what he knew was best for the country.

This statement presumes that Mr. Sullivan was cognizant of McCain's opinion of the war at the time of the 2004 election which he was not. Mr. Sullivan has stated his own opinion of the war. McCain later voted for the troop surge at a time when distancing himself from G.W. Bush would be beneficial to his career which suggests his support for the war was more than just party politics. This statement also presumes that a Kerry Presidency would have been best for America. Again, Mr. Sullivan's opinion, not a fact.

He capitulated and enshrined torture as the policy of the United States, by allowing the CIA to use techniques as bad as and worse than the torture inflicted on him in Vietnam. He gave the war criminals in the White House retroactive immunity against the prosecution they so richly deserve. The enormity of this moral betrayal, this betrayal of his country's honor, has yet to sink in. But for my part, it now makes much more sense. He is not the man I thought he was.

So now waterboarding is worse than bayoneting and arm breaking? Personally, I think not. Mr. Sullivan disagrees has again stated his own opinion.

And then, because he could see he was going to lose, ten days ago, he threw caution to the wind and with no vetting whatsoever, picked a woman who, by her decision to endure her own eight-month pregnancy of a Down Syndrome child in public, that he was going to reignite the culture war as a last stand against Obama. That's all that is happening right now: a massive bump in the enthusiasm of the Christianist base. This is pure Rove.

Not that I'm a huge fan of polling, but gallup's research, which I'm guessing is more scientific than Mr. Sullivan's suggests that McCain's largest "Bump" comes from "Independents" and "Democrats". You'd think Christians who would use their faith as a means of selecting a candidate would already be squarely in the "Rebublican" group of those polled. As for the Vetting process, how is Mr. Sullivan so well informed as to declare it non-existent in this case?

http://media.gallup.com/poll/graphs/080909Subgroups1_hwqdkir.gif

http://www.gallup.com/poll/110137/McCain-Now-Winning-Majority-Independents.aspx

Yes, McCain made a decision that revealed many appalling things about him. In the end, his final concern is not national security. No one who cares about national security would pick as vice-president someone who knows nothing about it as his replacement. No one who cares about this country's safety would gamble the security of the world on a total unknown because she polled well with the Christianist base. No person who truly believed that the surge was integral to this country's national security would pick as his veep candidate a woman who, so far as we can tell anything, opposed it at the time.

Personally, I prefer the part of the ticket with limited foreign policy experience to be the Vice President and not the President. The same argument could be made about Mr. Obama for choosing himself.

But my post wasn't about the particular Blog Posting per se, Just that your pronouncement of someone's opinion as irrefutable fact seemed somewhat douchey.

So now it's elitist to look at the facts and draw obvious conclusions from them? I guess it's also elitist of me to expect someone who disagrees with my opinion on the post to actually produce evidence against Sullivan's claims to facts or point out a flaw in his logic. Sorry, but if you can't refute his argument then you have the choice of conceeding his point or looking stupid.

Look, you did it again. :rolleyes:

[mascan42]

"Anyone who is capable of getting himself elected president should on no account be allowed to do the job." - Douglas Adams

[Vyce]

BTW, since people aren't really focusing on this, BloodyDiaper's hero, Andrew Sullivan, as jimmy pointed out in the second post, was the guy most enthusiastically pushing "Trig Trutherism", i.e. the conspiracy theory that Palin faked her last pregnancy to cover for her daughter (so that this would be Bristol's SECOND pregnancy, rather than her first). He pushed this even after it was clearly demonstrated that this theory was 1000% horseshit. And that's just one of MANY Palin smears he's been trying to push, at least until his bosses at the Atlantic told him to cut the shit.

And so this is the faggot who's making judgments about another man's character? Nigga please.

[Razor Roman]

So...

McCain has no honor because he endorsed a political candidate that he agreed with on most issues, over someone he mostly disagreed with who happened to be one of over a million other guys who fought in the same war as him?