Guns N' Roses Chinese Democracy..... Is Finally Out

[annoyinglee]

Finally, Guns N' Roses are coming out with Chinese Democracy on Nov 23rd, 2008.

The 1st Single From Chinese Democracy(self-titled song)
http://www.geffen.com/artist/player/default.aspx?mid=4565&aid=149&bhcp=1

[Stormrider666]

Yeah free Dr. Pepper for everyone!!!!!!

Now the question becomes, will this album be this great masterpiece to match the years and hype or will it be a steaming pile of shit that will eventually put an end to Axl Rose ever being mentioned in the news again.

[annoyinglee]

Let Cheer, Dr. Pepper :icon_lol:

[moegolden]

I really like four or five of the tracks. I agree that there's a certain dated-feeling, but really, there is for most any three-chord rock.

other GnR threads

Well this should get Chinese Democracy released sooner...
http://wackbag.com/showthread.php?t=87976

GNR giants stadium 7.18.92
http://wackbag.com/showthread.php?t=91745

Guns & Roses Album really getting released..at Wal Mart?
http://wackbag.com/showthread.php?t=95452

[Phi Mu Alpha]

< wants a six pack of Dr. Pepper

[Sct Ptersns Twn]

Finally, Guns N' Roses are coming out with Chinese Democracy on Nov 23rd, 2008.

The 1st Single From Chinese Democracy(self-titled song)
http://www.geffen.com/artist/player/default.aspx?mid=4565&aid=149&bhcp=1


Hey genius, it's Oct. 22, still not out. :action-sm

[Turtle]

Smash Hit! You can hear the Living Color influence.

[Chuck Schick]

I dig it.

[CousinDave]

Will you be able to download this on iTunes, I had to go to Wal-Mart this week to buy the new AC/DC album - I so hate Wal-Mart.

[Sinn Fein]

Finally, Guns N' Roses are coming out with Chinese Democracy on Nov 23rd, 2008.

The 1st Single From Chinese Democracy(self-titled song)
http://www.geffen.com/artist/player/default.aspx?mid=4565&aid=149&bhcp=1

Hey genius, it's Oct. 22, still not out. :action-sm

Am I the only one who sees that it says November?

It's not a bad song... I wonder if its one of the tracks that was recorded when Buckethead was part of the whole thing.

[Nothing Sound]

I've had this album for months already.

It blows.

[Rauensnake]

The bbbboys were sure down on it today. I liked the shit out of it.

[Nothing Sound]

I so hate Wal-Mart.

Yeah. I so hate saving an average of 30% on my purchases.

[atxklown]

not a too cool for the room guy, but the only GNR I bought was Appetite and that was on cassette

[CousinDave]

Yeah. I so hate saving an average of 30% on my purchases.


Quality over quantity matters to me.

There are countless products that are sold at Wal-Mart that aren't the same as the same product sold in other stores. There will be a blender at Wal-Mart for $50.00 its $65 at Macy's but the one sold at Wal-Mart will have plastic gears inside, while the one at Macy's will have metal gears. They'll have the exact same model numbers, the UPC will be different though. They'll have cereal boxes the exact same size as the box at Wegmans, Safeway, Kroger, etc... but the Wal-Mart box will have less volume - it'll say on the box how many .oz are in the box. You gotta watch all that stuff at Wal-Mart - that's how they sell products cheaper.

Now I'm not saying don't buy toilet paper, soap, deodorant, etc... at Wal-Mart just gotta watch and make sure you're getting what you think you're paying for.

Wal-Mart uses CDs, DVDs, and toys as loss leaders.

[LastDeadMouse]

Wal-Mart uses CDs, DVDs, and toys as loss leaders.

Yup. That's why my old company is going down the shitter and I don't work for them anymore. Specialty stores can't compete with that. I saw the writing on the wall and bailed.

[Sct Ptersns Twn]

Am I the only one who sees that it says November?

No. Oct. 22, is not Nov. 22. Just say'n.


It's not a bad song... I wonder if its one of the tracks that was recorded when Buckethead was part of the whole thing.

If you did not know it was G n' R would you say that?

[LZMF1]

the song stinks.

[Beeman99]

how does anyone even care anymore? They had one decent album 20 years ago, so for all I care Axel can die in a fire

[turdfrgsn]

axl...he's no steven carr

[25133WhooOoAH]

die in a fire lolol....Why is GnR back..it stinks.

It's almost as bad as St Anger.

[BIV]

I wouldn't go so far as to say it stinks, just kind of meh. About the same level as Wolfmother.

[LZMF1]

nah.....it stinks

[Abysmul]

I wouldn't go so far as to say it stinks, just kind of meh. About the same level as Wolfmother.
I agree, except for the Wolfmother thing. At least GnR had 3 great albums, whereas Wolfmother sucks more than anything that has ever been created.

I really wanted to like the new song, but it's just OK. I heard IRS, and that's a real good song, so I have hope for the album. It's not going to break any precedents, but I'm sure it will be fine

[Glenn Dandy]

WARRIOR SOUL PUT IT OUT FIRST.... better band.

[LZMF1]

WARRIOR SOUL PUT IT OUT FIRST.... better band.
QFT!!!!

i remember seeing warrior soul at the limelight. they were awesome back in the day.

the album chill pill sucked ass and i lost interest in them

[annoyinglee]

This is the 2008 version GNR!!

[Glenn Dandy]

QFT!!!!

i remember seeing warrior soul at the limelight. they were awesome back in the day.

the album chill pill sucked ass and i lost interest in them

Right on....You on MySpace?
http://www.myspace.com/glenn_dandy

They are in my friends... gotta order it off the site.


_

i hope that gets you there bro.

WARRIOR SOUL IS ONE BAD MOTHERFUCKER.

[LZMF1]

kick ass! i just sent you and them a friend request

[Glenn Dandy]

Roger that...Guns n Roses Died with my liver in the 80's.

I fucked a girl on a coffin listening to Mr. Brownstone, yeah dead dude was there.She rented an apartment above a mortuary.


Warrior Soul rules.

It's funny what you remember when your drunk.

Her name was Hyundai... I use to remember girls by their cars.

[CousinDave]

I fucked a girl on a coffin listening to Mr. Brownstone, yeah dead dude was there.


For this reason alone you should remain President of Wackbag forever.

[25133WhooOoAH]

This album might be St Anger part 2. Just sounds like trash

[iSpeakEloquent]

This album might be St Anger part 2. Just sounds like trash

so its gonna be awesome? :action-sm

[Nothing Sound]

Yeah. I so hate saving an average of 30% on my purchases.

Quality over quantity matters to me.

There are countless products that are sold at Wal-Mart that aren't the same as the same product sold in other stores. There will be a blender at Wal-Mart for $50.00 its $65 at Macy's but the one sold at Wal-Mart will have plastic gears inside, while the one at Macy's will have metal gears. They'll have the exact same model numbers, the UPC will be different though. They'll have cereal boxes the exact same size as the box at Wegmans, Safeway, Kroger, etc... but the Wal-Mart box will have less volume - it'll say on the box how many .oz are in the box. You gotta watch all that stuff at Wal-Mart - that's how they sell products cheaper.

Now I'm not saying don't buy toilet paper, soap, deodorant, etc... at Wal-Mart just gotta watch and make sure you're getting what you think you're paying for.

Wal-Mart uses CDs, DVDs, and toys as loss leaders.

The things that I purchase at Wal-Mart are the same EXACT things that I purchase elsewhere. The only difference is that I pay an average of 30% less and never have a problem returning items.

I recently purchased a toaster oven at Wal-Mart for $39.99 that goes for $60 in other stores. You're trying to tell me that in Wal-Mart it has different insides even though it's the same exact model? Where did you ever get this crazy idea from? Show me proof of this because I don't think it's true.

[DonTheTrucker]

For this reason alone you should remain President of Wackbag forever.

Agreed. That was the coolest post in the history of the internet.

Not just Wackbag. The entire internet.

[Sidekick Dave]

Rock is dead. And so is G'n'R.

[ruckstande]

Wow, what happened? Is it 1993 again?

[Cromwell]

"They're BACK!

and they're better than ever

"They're BACK!

To-geth-er for-ever!"

:p

[LZMF1]

agreed. That was the coolest post in the history of the internet.

Not just wackbag. The entire internet.qft!!!!

[annoyinglee]

I'm listening to Guns N' Roses Chinese Democracy right on myspace. I hear he first eight songs are really good, my opinion.

[Sidekick Dave]

I'm listening to Guns N' Roses Chinese Democracy right on myspace. I hear he first eight songs are really good, my opinion.
I guess that it all depends on one's opinion/taste. To me, it sounds like everything else that's out there in Commercial Rock today. It sounds like Mudvayne or Drowning Pool or Bullet for my Valentine. Bands that I cannot stand. And G N'R have no original members, so we waited for years and years and it just sounds poor IMO.

[Jay Douglas]

Yahoo! is reporting that Dr. Pepper will make good on its deal!

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081120/ap_on_en_mu/guns_n_roses_dr_pepper

[Big Dick Mcgee]

Yahoo! is reporting that Dr. Pepper will make good on its deal!

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081120/ap_on_en_mu/guns_n_roses_dr_pepperLoves me some free drink.

[Snake2k9]

Shackler's Revenge...I dislike.

[jimmyjimjimz]

It's almost as bad as St Anger.

What????? I liked St Anger. It might've been a little different, but I thought it was really good.

Anyway, I pre-ordered this album back in high school, in like 2000, and of course, the store I pre-ordered it at went out of business. Just a little tidbit. I know no one cares, I just wanted to thow that out.

I'm not gonna believe it's out until I see it in stores. I think it's gonna be horrible, to be honest, and most likely I'm not gonna buy it.

[Sprite]

I've had this album for months already.

It blows.

nah.....it stinks

Heard it a few days ago and couldn't agree more. It's a steaming pile of shit.

I kinda liked 2 or 3 tracks, but it's possible they sounded better than they actually are in comparison to the rest of the garbage on it.

[EarthCrisis]

I guess that it all depends on one's opinion/taste. To me, it sounds like everything else that's out there in Commercial Rock today. It sounds like Mudvayne or Drowning Pool or Bullet for my Valentine. Bands that I cannot stand. And G N'R have no original members, so we waited for years and years and it just sounds poor IMO.

Actually Mudvayne is one of the few mallcore bands I like.

I'm gonna buy the new GnR regardless of how bad people say it is. It's probably only 9.99 at best buy anyway.

[iSpeakEloquent]

What????? I liked St Anger. It might've been a little different, but I thought it was really good.

Anyway, I pre-ordered this album back in high school, in like 2000, and of course, the store I pre-ordered it at went out of business. Just a little tidbit. I know no one cares, I just wanted to thow that out.

I'm not gonna believe it's out until I see it in stores. I think it's gonna be horrible, to be honest, and most likely I'm not gonna buy it.

how can u preorder something that doesn't have a release date and then when it finally comes out 8 years later u won't buy it, u have to just for the story

[jimmyjimjimz]

how can u preorder something that doesn't have a release date and then when it finally comes out 8 years later u won't buy it, u have to just for the story

They were taking pre-orders for it, I guess cause Axl kept saying it's comming out this year every year, and I'm most likely not gonna buy it cause I have a weird feeling it's gonna suck. I'd have to listen to it before I decide to buy it.

[patcooper]

well i got my pre ordered copy yesterday. so yes the cd will be in bestbuy stores tomorrow

[Earth2murf]

G n R is not G n'R without IZZY

[LZMF1]

G n R is not G n'R without IZZY

it should be called the W. Axl Rose Experience or Experiment but definitely not GnR

i have only heard the single and have no interest in purchasing or acquiring the album in any way, shape or form.

[patcooper]

it should be called the W. Axl Rose Experience or Experiment but definitely not GnR

i have only heard the single and have no interest in purchasing or acquiring the album in any way, shape or form.

i agree that it's not gnr. and that axl should have changed the name. but i think the cd is really good and word is there will be another 2 cds coming soon. they recorded 48 songs within the 15 years. lmao

[iSpeakEloquent]

what will the other ones be called? something wacky like american communism?

[LastDeadMouse]

it should be called the W. Axl Rose Experience or Experiment but definitely not GnR

Definitely true, but the money is in the name because people are stupid. Can't remember where I heard it, but the best line regarding this that I've heard was "Mick Jagger and Kieth Richards have both put out solo albums to varying degrees of success and quality, but neither of them had the balls to call themselves The Rolling Stones when they did."

[Redding]

what will the other ones be called? something wacky like american communism?

no thats the name of Obama's presidency.....zing

[LZMF1]

Definitely true, but the money is in the name because people are stupid. Can't remember where I heard it, but the best line regarding this that I've heard was "Mick Jagger and Kieth Richards have both put out solo albums to varying degrees of success and quality, but neither of them had the balls to call themselves The Rolling Stones when they did."
i believe it was ronnie b. that said that.

[LastDeadMouse]

i believe it was ronnie b. that said that.

Good call.

[kloraferm]

The last time GNR sounded as good as the good ol' days, they were called Velvet Revolver.

[moegolden]

http://www.avclub.com/content/feature/chuck_klosterman_reviews

Chuck Klosterman reviews Chinese Democracy

by Chuck Klosterman
November 19th, 2008

Guest reviewer Chuck Klosterman is the author of five books, including Fargo Rock City: A Heavy Metal Odyssey In Rural North Dakota and the new novel Downtown Owl. There is no one in the world more qualified to review the exhaustingly anticipated new Guns N' Roses album than he is.

Reviewing Chinese Democracy is not like reviewing music. It's more like reviewing a unicorn. Should I primarily be blown away that it exists at all? Am I supposed to compare it to conventional horses? To a rhinoceros? Does its pre-existing mythology impact its actual value, or must it be examined inside a cultural vacuum, as if this creature is no more (or less) special than the remainder of the animal kingdom? I've been thinking about this record for 15 years; during that span, I've thought about this record more than I've thought about China, and maybe as much as I've thought about the principles of democracy. This is a little like when that grizzly bear finally ate Timothy Treadwell: Intellectually, he always knew it was coming. He had to. His very existence was built around that conclusion. But you still can't psychologically prepare for the bear who eats you alive, particularly if the bear wears cornrows.

Here are the simple things about Chinese Democracy: Three of the songs are astonishing. Four or five others are very good. The vocals are brilliantly recorded, and the guitar playing is (generally) more interesting than the guitar playing on the Use Your Illusion albums. Axl Rose made some curious (and absolutely unnecessary) decisions throughout the assembly of this project, but that works to his advantage as often as it detracts from the larger experience. So: Chinese Democracy is good. Under any halfway normal circumstance, I would give it an A.

But nothing about these circumstances is normal.

For one thing, Chinese Democracy is (pretty much) the last Old Media album we'll ever contemplate in this context—it's the last album that will be marketed as a collection of autonomous-but-connected songs, the last album that will be absorbed as a static manifestation of who the band supposedly is, and the last album that will matter more as a physical object than as an Internet sound file. This is the end of that. But the more meaningful reason Chinese Democracy is abnormal is because of a) the motives of its maker, and b) how those motives embargoed what the definitive product eventually became. The explanation as to why Chinese Democracy took so long to complete is not simply because Axl Rose is an insecure perfectionist; it's because Axl Rose self-identifies as a serious, unnatural artist. He can't stop himself from anticipating every possible reaction and interpretation of his work. I suspect he cares less about the degree to which people like his music, and more about how it is taken, regardless of the listener's ultimate judgment. This is why he was so paralyzed by the construction of Chinese Democracy—he can't write or record anything without obsessing over how it will be received, both by a) the people who think he's an unadulterated genius, and b) the people who think he's little more than a richer, red-haired Stephen Pearcy. All of those disparate opinions have identical value to him. So I will take Chinese Democracy as seriously as Axl Rose would hope, and that makes it significantly less simple. At this juncture in history, rocking is not enough.

The weirdest (yet more predictable) aspect of Chinese Democracy is the way 60 percent of the lyrics seem to actively comment on the process of making the album itself. The rest of the vocal material tends to suggest some kind of abstract regret over an undefined romantic relationship punctuated by betrayal, but that might just be the way all hard-rock songs seem when the singer plays a lot of piano and only uses pronouns. The craziest track, "Sorry," resembles spooky Pink Floyd and is probably directed toward former GNR drummer Steven Adler, although I suppose it might be about Slash or Stephanie Seymour or David Geffen. It could even be about Jon Pareles, for all I fucking know—Axl's enemy list is pretty Nixonian at this point. The most uplifting songs are "Street Of Dreams" (a leaked song previously titled "The Blues") and the exceptionally satisfying "Catcher In The Rye" (a softer, more sophisticated re-working of "Yesterdays" that occupies a conceptual self-awareness in the vein of Elton John or mid-period Queen). The fragile ballad "This I Love" is sad, melodramatic, and pleasurably traditional. There are many moments where it's impossible to tell who Axl is talking to, so it feels like he's talking to himself (and inevitably about himself). There's not much cogent storytelling, but it's linear and compelling. The best description of the overall literary quality of the lyrics would probably be "effectively narcissistic."

As for the music—well, that's actually much better than anticipated. It doesn't sound dated or faux-industrial, and the guitar shredding that made the final version (which I'm assuming is still predominantly Buckethead) is alien and perverse. A song like "Shackler's Revenge" is initially average, until you get to the solo—then it becomes the sonic equivalent of a Russian robot wrestling a reticulating python. Whenever people lament the dissolution of the original Guns N' Roses, the person they always focus on is Slash, and that makes sense. (His unrushed blues metal was the group's musical vortex.) But it's actually better that Slash is not on this album. What's cool about Chinese Democracy is that it truly does sound like a new enterprise, and I can't imagine that being the case if Slash were dictating the sonic feel of every riff. The GNR members Rose misses more are Izzy Stradlin (who effortlessly wrote or co-wrote many of the band's most memorable tunes) and Duff McKagan, the underappreciated bassist who made Appetite For Destruction so devastating. Because McKagan worked in numerous Seattle-based bands before joining Guns N' Roses, he became the de facto arranger for many of those pre-Appetite tracks, and his philosophy was always to take the path of least resistance. He pushed the songs in whatever direction felt most organic. But Rose is the complete opposite. He takes the path of most resistance. Sometimes it seems like Axl believes every single Guns N' Roses song needs to employ every single thing that Guns N' Roses has the capacity to do—there needs to be a soft part, a hard part, a falsetto stretch, some piano plinking, some R&B bullshit, a little Judas Priest, subhuman sound effects, a few Robert Plant yowls, dolphin squeaks, wind, overt sentimentality, and a caustic modernization of the blues. When he's able to temporarily balance those qualities (which happens on the title track and on "I.R.S.," the album's two strongest rock cuts), it's sprawling and entertaining and profoundly impressive. The soaring vocals crush everything. But sometimes Chinese Democracy suffers from the same inescapable problem that paralyzed proto-epics like "Estranged" and "November Rain": It's as if Axl is desperately trying to get some unmakeable dream song from inside his skull onto the CD, and the result is an overstuffed maelstrom that makes all the punk dolts scoff. His ambition is noble, yet wildly unrealistic. It's like if Jeff Lynne tried to make Out Of The Blue sound more like Fun House, except with jazz drumming and a girl singer from Motown.

Throughout Chinese Democracy, the most compelling question is never, "What was Axl doing here?" but "What did Axl think he was doing here?" The tune "If The World" sounds like it should be the theme to a Roger Moore-era James Bond movie, all the way down to the title. On "Scraped," there's a vocal bridge that sounds strikingly similar to a vocal bridge from the 1990 Extreme song "Get The Funk Out." On the aforementioned "Sorry," Rose suddenly sings an otherwise innocuous line ("But I don't want to do it") in some bizarre, quasi-Transylvanian accent, and I cannot begin to speculate as to why. I mean, one has to assume Axl thought about all of these individual choices a minimum of a thousand times over the past 15 years. Somewhere in Los Angles, there's gotta be 400 hours of DAT tape with nothing on it except multiple versions of the "Sorry" vocal. So why is this the one we finally hear? What finally made him decide, "You know, I've weighed all my options and all their potential consequences, and I'm going with the Mexican vampire accent. This is the vision I will embrace. But only on that one line! The rest of it will just be sung like a non-dead human." Often, I don't even care if his choices work or if they fail. I just want to know what Rose hoped they would do.

On "Madagascar," he samples MLK (possible restitution for "One In A Million"?) and (for the second time in his career) the movie Cool Hand Luke. Considering that the only people who will care about Rose's preoccupation with Cool Hand Luke are those already obsessed with his iconography, the doomed messianic message of that film must deeply (and predictably) resonate with his very being. But how does that contribute to "Madagascar," a meteorological metaphor about all those unnamed people who wanted to stop him from making Chinese Democracy in the insane manner he saw fit? Sometimes listening to this album feels like watching the final five minutes of the Sopranos finale. There's no acceptable answer to these types of hypotheticals.

Still, I find myself impressed by how close Chinese Democracy comes to fulfilling the absurdly impossible expectation it self-generated, and I not-so-secretly wish this had actually been a triple album. I've maintained a decent living by making easy jokes about Axl Rose for the past 10 years, but what's the final truth? The final truth is this: He makes the best songs. They sound the way I want songs to sound. A few of them seem idiotic at the beginning, but I love the way they end. Axl Rose put so much time and effort into proving that he was super-talented that the rest of humanity forgot he always had been. And that will hurt him. This record may tank commercially. Some people will slaughter Chinese Democracy, and for all the reasons you expect. But he did a good thing here.

Grade: A-

[iSpeakEloquent]

ok im pretty optimistic about this stuff. I got the cd on sunday, gave it a listen. It's not good, it's not even solid. I like maybe 4 songs, possibly 5. tracks 2-7 are absolute horse shit and should be on an r & b album. I'm not totally disappointed though, i like that i have at least a few new songs for my ipod with a guns n' roses name.

[sd187]

'Better' is a pretty damn good song.

[moegolden]

another long detailed review...
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/23/arts/music/23pare.html

[kloraferm]

It's okay at best. I have a few songs on my ipod and downloaded the entire album for free so I can't exactly complain that I got ripped off. Either way, it's no 'Appetite' and it sure as hell wasn't worth taking like 15 years to finish. Does Axl actually think it's still 20 years ago? I mean the guy's still going with the angry young outlaw act and he's right around the corner from 50. All these former upstarts should learn a lesson from Cash (he sure as hell knew how to do it right).

[WhiteHonkyDevil]

G n R is not G n'R without STEVEN ADLER

Fixed that for you.

[LZMF1]

how about GnR isn't W. Axl Rose?

i think we can all agree on that

[kloraferm]

Fixed that for you.
How about it isn't GNR without, I don't know, the actual band?

[mattiew23m]

WOW I want my life back. I can't believe Axl had the nerve to call it a GNR cd. Even if you look at it as an Axl Rose project it still sucks.. Listen to one track of of appetite, or Use you Illusion, and it will kick the shit out of anything on this new cd

[EarthCrisis]

I hate bashing shit on the internet but.......A-BOOOOOOO!

Ramone get me my 11.99 back.

[annoyinglee]

Axl's vocals are shoot. I bought the album on Sunday, it's not a great album... I thought it was going to be. The GNR album is good.

[CousinDave]

I downloaded it on iTunes, haven't listened to it yet.

[Earth2murf]

who plays guitars?

[patcooper]

who plays guitars?

Buckethead, Richard Fortus, Robin Finck, Ron "Bumblefoot" Thal, Paul Tobias

[jnoble]

It's pretty good. It's not GREAT or a MASTERPIECE, but not bad either. I'm not listening to it comparing it to 'Appetite' or 'Use You Illusion', to me it's an Axl solo record with other musicians playing backup. If you look at it that way, one might like it better.

[kloraferm]

It's pretty good. It's not GREAT or a MASTERPIECE, but not bad either. I'm not listening to it comparing it to 'Appetite' or 'Use You Illusion', to me it's an Axl solo record with other musicians playing backup. If you look at it that way, one might like it better.
Agreed. My biggest personal gripe with it was that Axl (only original member) still called it Guns N Roses. You're definitely right that he should've just released it as a solo project or just a new band. Cornell, Weiland, Grohl, even as far back as Paul McCartney etc. were able to do it pretty succesfully.

[NuttyJim]

GnR has been dead since Use Your Illusion 1 & 2. They ceased to exist as a band since then. Damn fucking shame cuz they were one of my favorite bands growing up.

[fandango86]

Love the new album. Don't give a shit who's in the band - it sounds great and Axl sounds great. Fuck Slash and his stupid hurt feelings and Duff and his retardedness and Steven Adler and his heroin and Izzy and...whatever he's whining about. Guns n Roses is and always was Axl, and the album is great.