Discussion in 'Current Events' started by SOS, Mar 20, 2012.
This story is a lie.
Paranoid idiot so should be put away.
I will add another link with ABC's article which has the transcripts of Trayvon's call to 911 since the Calgary Herald story clearly has Zimmerman's fake story.
I was gonna say, the 911 call doesn't bear out that bullshit story about Zimmerman getting out of his vehicle to check his whereabouts. That, and wasn't this a gated community? Not very likely that he doesn't know EXACTLY where he is. The dude is a bullshit artist who realizes he just punched his ticket to the big house.
I'm gonna play devil's advocate here: What are the odds the girlfriend is full of shit? Unless there's an actual recording of the conversation, who is to say she didn't make shit up to cover for her dead boyfriend?
Either way, the whole story isn't out yet. There's a lot of missing details, and the devil is damn sure in the details in cases like this.
This case is so full of fuck.
However, I highly doubt the gf's version of what happened. As we all know Negresses will lie for some dollars.
Your name really describes you (something tasty) that said:
I'm inclined to believe the girl. And i'm sorry, that kid didn't look like he would hurt a fly. And apparently he didn't (his teacher said A/B student and he has NO record of ANY violence of ANY kind at his HS). I do agree though, this is a fucked up story...
Phone logs only show when the call was placed, when it ended, and what phone numbers were on each end - and nothing of the content of the conversation, or what people were actually on the line.
Also, the original Calgary Hearald article (which may or may not have some bad info) had this to say...
So, what was he suspended for? How often have we seen "He was honor roll/good boy/never caused trouble/etc" kids with rap sheets as long as someone's arm? That could be the case here, or it could be something else.
Again, there are still a LOT of details missing here. One way or the other, I get the feeling there's some damning evidence yet to come to the surface. It could be what puts the shooter away for quite a while, or it could be evidence that totally exonerates him (despite some shitty decisions).
It looks bad with Zimmerman, but I agree a lot of facts still need to come out. The media is of course playing off the sensationalism from the social media attention. Right now you have the initial investigation (which determined Zimmerman was just) vs the family and a bunch of people on Facebook demanding an arrest. We really don't know much in the way of solid facts yet.
Really? Well his HS said he has never been involved in any violent behaviour. who knows why the kid was suspended. I've been suspended, and i'm black. I don't have a rap sheet. i don't understand, when the kid was doing NOTHING, people are giving Zimmerman the benefit of the doubt? He should NOT have pursued him. at that point treyvon was defending himself. The CALL loggs are there. he talked to the girl. And I'm willing to believe her. Why would she lie? It's easy enough for the investigators to hear that phone call anyway. So we'll soon find out.
This was not just. Did you hear the 911 calls? if played against Zimmerman's own statements, Zimmerman is Lying. Zimmeran said he did not confront him. He did. The Kid was running from him. He pursued him. Zimmerman Caught up, got his shit rocked, and decided to shoot the kid. Then you hear the call with Treyvon SCREAMING for help. A gun shot goes off... Screaming stops. This case is certainly fucked up, and I don't understand why people are white-knighting Zimmerman. (Or halfwhite-knighting)
We know that the cops who investigated originally are less racially motivated than the current DOJ. We know that for a fact.
I'm not saying whether or not it was just, I'm saying the local PD deemed it as such. Again, I think there are a lot of facts missing here. Right now as it stands, I think Zimmerman is at least partially at fault. No one here has "white-knighted" Zimmerman... we're just not acting emotionally and saying we think there's more than the media is reporting on (or even knows about at this point). It's a much better story for the media if this guy shot an innocent, unarmed kid, so that's the angle they naturally go with.
As Norm pointed out, thank God the public doesn't get to arbitrarily sentence this guy via popular opinion, because everyone is reacting with little knowledge and a lot of emotion right now.
Edit: There are a lot of gun owners on this board (a few have responded in this thread), and no one hates people who misuse firearms more than us. If Zimmerman shot an innocent kid, then that can be used to force through tougher gun legislation. We're just waiting until more of the story comes out to pass judgement.
All of this right here. I know we all like to fuck around here like we're racists, but at our cores, most of us are about the character of the person, not the color. This kid just reads as a good kid, from the available evidence. And at the bottom of it all, it's very simply put: Zimmerman had no right to pull a gun, no matter what his motivation. He can only observe and report, and is NOT TO USE DEADLY FORCE under any circumstances. It really is as simple as that. He was guilty of aggravated manslaughter at very least.
The Sanford police should be taken to task over this. There is no excuse to let this guy shoot an unarmed kid and walk away with he gun he shot the kid with. An investigation should have taken place. This is going to cause FL to have to change the "Stand Your Ground" law which I support. FL is a safer state b/c criminals never know who is packing and this overzealous prick is gonna fuck it all up.
In 2010 Justin Collison, the son of a Sanford cop (and the grandson of a Florida Judge), brutally beat a black homeless man unconscious. The supervising officer refused to arrest Collison and it took several weeks, the media running with the story and the release of a videotape of the beating before charges were filed. The same tape the Sanford PD had from day one. Sounds familiar right? This whole incident was such a debacle that Police Chief Brian Tooley was ousted (and replaced by Bill Lee). But it turns out the supervising officer who initially declined to arrest Collison despite having clear evidence a crime had been committed is the same goddamn guy who was in charge the night of the Martin shooting. One Anthony Raimondo, who was investigated and cleared of any wrongdoing for the Collison incident. The same Anthony Raimondo was relieved of duty (with pay) for filing a false police report and after accusations of lying under oath in 2009, but again later cleared to return to service.
Less Racially motivate? yeah... Perhaps. Inept asshole Cops? FUCKING CERTAINLY
You do realize that cell phone companies don't record phone calls, right? The only way we are hearing the call between the girlfriend and the dead kid is if one of them recorded it themselves.
All of this. I'll gladly call for the guy to hang if he shot the kid in cold blood. However, self-defense shootings are not always cut and dry, and we definitely do NOT have the full story here. As one of the biggest experts in the US puts it, you have to look at the totality of the circumstances. In most states, the burden of proof is if a reasonable person would have felt they were in danger of death, severe bodily harm, or sexual assault in that situation, then deadly force to prevent same is justifiable.
Escalating the situation is wrong, but does not always preclude justifiable self defense. Guy chases kid, tell kid to stop. Kid turns, shoves hand in pocket (as if going for weapon) - kid just escalated further, and elevated from a verbal confrontation to a potentially lethal one. Guy is still wrong for confronting the kid, but could (note, COULD) be justified in shooting at that time, since the kid was the one that elevated the situation to one requiring deadly force. Again, remember what I said the burden of proof is, and think of the totality of circumstances (ie: how was the kid dressed, stance, behavior, etc).
I'll note, too, that a single shot (unless it was execution style, which it doesn't sound like it was) is often indicative of someone shooting in self defense, and realizing the threat was immediately stopped, or someone firing by reflex before fully realizing how they reacted. Either one of those backs up the guy's story of self defense.
While I'm sure some of the libs in the peninsula will scream over this, I don't see if affecting the SYG law. It will, however, set back any near-future attempts to get open carry reinstated in Florida.
In Bold. this is a great discussion, but I honestly believe this case is cut and dry.
Yes, I'm sure cell phone companies do not routinely record conversations.
As for the rest..
A) Please don't reply inside of quotes. It makes it a pain in the ass to read.
B) I'm simply stating possibilities. I'm not defending the guy, but people DO need to look at the situation more critically, and not just jump on the emotional bandwagon right away.
Again, shootings like this are RARELY cut and dry, one way or the other. Once you step outside the home, there are always going to be conflicting reports, missing details, etc. around a shooting until the police can fully get to the bottom of it, and all the details are made public.
Then you're jumping to conclusions. The case may be cut and dry, but based on the solid facts we know at this point there's no way to determine that. You do realize that you've made your conclusions after what amounts to pretty much hours of this story breaking. Most murder trials take weeks or even months, yet somehow you think you've seen enough hearsay "evidence" to sentence this guy? Hell, the above article basically reiterates the position of the family's lawyer, who is obviously biased.
You're pretty much basing your conclusion on a) a 911 call made in a stressful situation, b) what the kid's girlfriend said, and c) that he looked like a good kid. Hell, the last point is offset by the fact that someone who participates in a neighborhood watch group in a gated community sounds like a responsible person. Both that and the appearance of the kid are not facts, just interpretations.
I'm jumping to conclusions based off of 8 and a half minutes of 911 calls. and based off of Statements made by Zimmerman to the police. I also know that Zimmerman is an ass and His self-defense statement goes out the window once he actively followed and chased down the kid. When authors of the law say Zimmerman should have been arrested, that says something.
Did you ever think that the politician is throwing the guy under the bus to cover his own ass and to help shield the SYG law in Florida?
Again, asshats that jump to their own conclusions based on incomplete evidence are what fuck up cases like this.
More than likely, the guy is guilty of SOMETHING. What that something is remains to be determined.
But Zimmerman violated the law by being the aggressor. I mean, that fact IS establshed, no?
This should be enough to get the democrat black vote up from 96% to 97%.
Color me surprised about who you believe.
Not always. Again, we do not have all the details, so it's impossible to determine at this time if he was justified.