$20 Billion Arms Sale to Saudi Arabia

krisko

Mrs. Fuckin Funny
Jul 29, 2005
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#1
I found this online, I'm wondering what people think about it?

here goes:
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601103&sid=aH4QgFii6qwI&refer=us

Bush to Urge $20 Billion Arms Sale to Saudi Arabia, Gulf States

By Holly Rosenkrantz

July 28 (Bloomberg) -- The Bush administration is planning to ask Congress next week to approve an arms-sale package to Saudi Arabia and five other Persian Gulf countries that may total more than $20 billion, Rebecca Goodrich-Hinton, a Defense Department spokeswoman, said.

Included in the package are advanced satellite-guided bombs, fighter-aircraft upgrades and new naval vessels. The administration also plans to announce a new 10-year military aid package to Israel and Egypt. The steps are part of an effort by the Bush administration to counter Iran's rising influence.

The $20 billion price tag on the arms-sale package is more than double what officials originally estimated this past spring, and would be the largest arms deal negotiated by the Bush administration. It would likely include air-to-air missiles and Joint Direct Attack Munitions.

The military assistance agreements would provide $30 billion in new U.S. aid to Israel and $13 billion to Egypt over a decade, Goodrich-Hinton said.

In addition to Saudi Arabia, the six countries to receive the arms would be the United Arab Emirates, Kuwait, Qatar, Bahrain and Oman.

Plans for the sale will be announced Monday ahead of a trip to the Middle East by Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice and Defense Secretary Robert Gates.

News of the proposed sale was first reported in today's Washington Post and New York Times.
 

JimsInfectedEye

That's very hurtful, sir.
May 21, 2005
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#2
Good idea in theory.

I wonder how much of those weapons will wind up in Irans hands, though.
 

LiddyRules

I'm Gonna Be The Bestest Pilot In The Whole Galaxy
Jun 1, 2005
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#4
Ah the Saudis, good people.




Holy shit we are so dead.
 

WhiskeyWhispers

I Want To Kill You All
Mar 11, 2007
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#5
Why the fuck do we have to keep getting in further with that Godforsaken region? Leave that shit alone.
Our own weapons will one day be the death of us. Unbelievable.
 

krisko

Mrs. Fuckin Funny
Jul 29, 2005
28,300
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#7
alright i feel the same way, i didn't want to frame my thread in a negative way, but i think this is fucking bullshit. this administration (and the others before it) are blinded by the Saudis for some reason. I'm not one of these oil conspiracy people but this pseudo-alliance we have with the Saudis is about oil. the only reason they aren't joining up with the other middle eastern countries in trying to kill us (or at least publicly doing so) is because they like our money.
 

Ballbuster1

In The Danger Zone...
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Aug 26, 2002
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#8
WTF is wrong with this asshole? First he gets into a war he can't win and
now he wants to give them better weapons? You know damn right well some
of this stuff will end up in the wrong hands. The Saudis are not to be trusted.
 

MrAbovePar

En Taro Anthony
Mar 14, 2005
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#10
WTF is wrong with this asshole? First he gets into a war he can't win and
now he wants to give them better weapons? You know damn right well some
of this stuff will end up in the wrong hands. The Saudis are not to be trusted.
The only weapons we've ever given to the ME that ended up in the "wrong hands", were M-16s and other small arms given to the Palestinian Authority.

Giving weapons to SA has never bit us on the ass in the past. The gov't itself is mostly on our side while the people mostly aren't.
 

pure_waves

© Steven Carr Industries, 2014. Grrrrrrrr
Dec 9, 2004
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#11
None. Saudi Arabia and Iran are enemies. The arab mindset just wouldn't allow Saudi Arabia to arm Iran.
That old Shiite Sunni thing. :action-sm They do indeed hate each other. Actually from what I've read, Saudi Arabia and the Gulf states are scared to death of Iran and a possible Iranian snatch of their territory. I dont mind arming these countries at all. You need to keep the balance of power tilted to US allies and away from the bad guys.

There is a downside of arming wobbly regimes like Saudi. One potential bad scenario is something like what happened when the Shah fell in 1979 in Iran. Up until that point the US had been arming his forces. But when the Islamists came to power they inherited a crap load of US arms. That sounds scary, but it's not as bad as it sounds. Over time they couldn't get spare parts for the stuff they did get and that makes a big chunk of their gear unusable. As bad as it was when the Iranian govt's flipped, they were never really able to use what they got against us, though I think some of it saw action against Iraq in the Iran Iraq war.
 
Jul 13, 2006
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#12
Well it's not like we don't already give aid to those areas anyway. Kind of like we give Israel roughly $4Billion each year in aid from our tax money. That's why I think I should at least get a free trip to go visit there :)

I like how the U.S. government sucks so much dick when it comes to weapons laws here in this country. It's OK to send missles and automatics to every country in the world without question, but they refuse to allow U.S. citizens to own automatics unless they are 25 year old pieces of shit that have already had thousands of rounds put through them by previous owners. OR, if you have special licensing you can order a new "sample" weapon from outside the country but you can't ever get rid of the gun unless you sell it to law enforcement, another person with the same license you have and if you ever quit paying your $500 a year for your license you have to give up all of your automatic "samples" that you've aquired during your life. But damn it, send crates of automatics over to Africa because that's just fine. It's fucking ridiculous.
 

jackjack

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May 12, 2007
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#13
That old Shiite Sunni thing. :action-sm They do indeed hate each other.
They are arguing over whether the people they worship are legitimate bloodline decendents of the original important guy over a thousand years ago.

And we are giving them sophisticated weapons?

Religion sucks. All of them.
 
#14
And it's only gotten worse since this story came out. So let's reward Saudi for their brilliant help.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8293410/

An NBC News analysis of hundreds of foreign fighters who died in Iraq over the last two years reveals that a majority came from the same country as most of the 9/11 hijackers — Saudi Arabia.


They are among more than 400 militants from 21 countries whose deaths were celebrated on Islamic Web sites over the last two years.

"By far the nationality that comes up over and over again is Saudi Arabia," says Evan Kohlmann, an NBC News terrorism expert.

The NBC News analysis of Web site postings found that 55 percent of foreign insurgents came from Saudi Arabia, 13 percent from Syria, 9 percent from North Africa and 3 percent from Europe.

The U.S. military also says Saudi Arabia and Syria are the leading sources of insurgents. An Army official provided a list of the top 10 countries to NBC News but would not release the numbers of foreign fighters from each. The top 10, alphabetically, are: Egypt, Iran, Jordan, Lebanon, the Palestinian territories, Saudi Arabia, Sudan, Syria, Tunisia and Yemen.

END



Because you know Saudi Arabia shows a real dedication to us. These are the people killing our armed forces, but hey, let's help arm them.
 

MrAbovePar

En Taro Anthony
Mar 14, 2005
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#15
Because you know Saudi Arabia shows a real dedication to us. These are the people killing our armed forces, but hey, let's help arm them.
Blacks in the Us commit a lot of crimes. Why would anyone elect one of them to become the President!

See how stupid that sounds. The Gov't of Saudi Arabia works for our interests in the region even though a lot of their people work against it. Meanwhile a shitload of Paleocons stupidly assert that even though the gov't of Iran is directly working against our interests and are arming Iraqi insurgents and foreign fighters they should be sought after to help us in Iraq.

Hell, people are stupid enough to believe that Saudi Arabia attacked us on 9-11 just as they're stupid enough to believe that Iraq did.
 

mendozathejew

Registered User
Mar 12, 2005
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#17
And it's only gotten worse since this story came out. So let's reward Saudi for their brilliant help.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8293410/

An NBC News analysis of hundreds of foreign fighters who died in Iraq over the last two years reveals that a majority came from the same country as most of the 9/11 hijackers — Saudi Arabia.


They are among more than 400 militants from 21 countries whose deaths were celebrated on Islamic Web sites over the last two years.

"By far the nationality that comes up over and over again is Saudi Arabia," says Evan Kohlmann, an NBC News terrorism expert.

The NBC News analysis of Web site postings found that 55 percent of foreign insurgents came from Saudi Arabia, 13 percent from Syria, 9 percent from North Africa and 3 percent from Europe.

The U.S. military also says Saudi Arabia and Syria are the leading sources of insurgents. An Army official provided a list of the top 10 countries to NBC News but would not release the numbers of foreign fighters from each. The top 10, alphabetically, are: Egypt, Iran, Jordan, Lebanon, the Palestinian territories, Saudi Arabia, Sudan, Syria, Tunisia and Yemen.

END



Because you know Saudi Arabia shows a real dedication to us. These are the people killing our armed forces, but hey, let's help arm them.


theres a massive difference in the middle east between the people, and the governments. if SA had elections, Bin Laden would be elected. But the threat of Iran is really moving the government to the middle, especially on the Israeli-Palestinian issue, which will really help our efforts in the middle east
 

Larz

****Self-Banned****
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Feb 12, 2006
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#18
Blacks in the Us commit a lot of crimes. Why would anyone elect one of them to become the President!

See how stupid that sounds. The Gov't of Saudi Arabia works for our interests in the region even though a lot of their people work against it. Meanwhile a shitload of Paleocons stupidly assert that even though the gov't of Iran is directly working against our interests and are arming Iraqi insurgents and foreign fighters they should be sought after to help us in Iraq.

Hell, people are stupid enough to believe that Saudi Arabia attacked us on 9-11 just as they're stupid enough to believe that Iraq did.
You're making way too much sense.

Let me just add that if we don't sell weapons to the Saudis, the French, Russians, and Chinese would gladly take our place.
 

THE FEZ MAN

as a matter of fact i dont have 5$
Aug 23, 2002
41,784
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#19
we are doomed
 

pure_waves

© Steven Carr Industries, 2014. Grrrrrrrr
Dec 9, 2004
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#20
You're making way too much sense.

Let me just add that if we don't sell weapons to the Saudis, the French, Russians, and Chinese would gladly take our place.
Very true. Not even just that they would, they already do sell plenty.

It's kind of out there, but if youre interested in this stuff, check out the Middle East Military Balance book from any recent year, and you will notice that plenty of states sell arms there besides the major powers.

The last copy I ran through detailed all the countries that provide military aid to the Middle East in some way shape or form. Forget the big boys, countries like Yugoslavia, Brazil, Kazakstan, Pakistan, Italy, India and on and on provide all sorts of military aid to the region.

So if the Saudis didnt get the stuff from US, they'd get it elsewhere. It's a fact. Theyre not going to suddenly disarm, hold hands, and sing I'd Like To Buy The World A Coke (people from the seventies will get this :action-sm). It's just not happening.

Is it better that they get it from someone else? Actually it's alot worse since we'd be locked out of the process of monitoring the weapons after sale. Believe me, selling arms doesnt just end with the sale. There's alot more to it.

It sucks, but arms deals are not anything new. It's been a reality for ages.
 
#21
theres a massive difference in the middle east between the people, and the governments. if SA had elections, Bin Laden would be elected. But the threat of Iran is really moving the government to the middle, especially on the Israeli-Palestinian issue, which will really help our efforts in the middle east
Oh stop it already. All those Saudi nationals flowing into Iraq killing American troops and no one is trying to stop it is my issue with them. And whenever we even hint to change course over there the Saudi government threatens to let even more flow into Iraq. That's my bitch with them.
 

pure_waves

© Steven Carr Industries, 2014. Grrrrrrrr
Dec 9, 2004
1,406
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#22
Well it's not like we don't already give aid to those areas anyway. Kind of like we give Israel roughly $4Billion each year in aid from our tax money. That's why I think I should at least get a free trip to go visit there :)
You can get that free trip. Convert to Judaism, go to the Israeli embassy and tell them you wanna blow shit up. They'll be more than happy to enlist you into the IDF. Free room and board!

As for the aid to Israel (and any country for that matter) most of funds come right back to the US since most of the weapons acquired are made by US arms manufacturers. It's a perk of sorts that the US govt gives to support domestic arms manufacturers. M-16s, Abrams tanks, Blackhawks, theyre all made in the USA. Not all the money goes back, some gets used for local assembly of US made parts and some goes for research and development, but the majority does go back.
 

pure_waves

© Steven Carr Industries, 2014. Grrrrrrrr
Dec 9, 2004
1,406
1
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Upper West Side, NY
#23
Oh stop it already. All those Saudi nationals flowing into Iraq killing American troops and no one is trying to stop it is my issue with them. And whenever we even hint to change course over there the Saudi government threatens to let even more flow into Iraq. That's my bitch with them.
Even if the Saudis wanted to close the border and restrict the flow of manpower (which they dont) they couldnt anyway.

They are more than happy to let those Jihadis leave. The same people who go fight the US in Iraq also want to topple the Saudi regime.

Even if they did crackdown, you have to remember that it's wide open there. Miles and miles of unguarded desert terrain. Even at the border, you cant stop a bus load of Saudis from entering Iraq, they just say they're visiting or going to study.
 

Dopie Opie

Registered User
Oct 22, 2004
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#24
OK - So short term this will help our position. Can we think long term here people.

First we have the Iran situation with the Shah back in the 70's

How about this one that we forget about.

All the arms that we aided Afghanistan with to fight the Russians back in the 70's and early 80's ?? Remember we were fighting the evil Russians and helping poor defenseless Afghanistan...

Never mind the Taliban, a few decades later, think about one of those freedom fighters.....one Osama Bin Laden.

At one time we supported and armed him.

Lets not think about 2007-2010, lets think 2020.

We may be killing ourselves
 

mendozathejew

Registered User
Mar 12, 2005
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#25
They are more than happy to let those Jihadis leave. The same people who go fight the US in Iraq also want to topple the Saudi regime.
yeah that was my point, you phrased it more gooder. we generally have to pick the lesser of various evils in the middle east, and the Saudis royal family is the lesser evil right now.