Arizona Law Pressures Immigrants To Move

Stalker2

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Jun 7, 2001
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#1
Arizona law pressures immigrants to move


Associated Press
Feb. 29, 2008 01:28 PM
Parents are pulling students out of school. Construction workers are abandoning their jobs. Families are hastily moving out of apartments.

Two months after Arizona enacted a law punishing employers who hire illegal immigrants, the law is already achieving one of its goals: Scores of immigrants are fleeing to other states or back to their Latin American homelands.

Gaby Espinoza, who has been unemployed since November, is among those affected. She gave up looking for a job because of the law and may have to return to Mexico.


Espinoza's husband works here legally, but the law means that employers must ask her for papers, and she faces the daily fear of being deported.

LINK: http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/0229az-immiglaw0229-ON.html
 

Ego

The Only Thing Bigger Than My Head
Feb 15, 2005
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#2
Good. It's about time some of these laws were put into effect and/or enforced.

You (the hypothetical immigrant) want to work here, get your fucking papers.
 

Schmed

I'm a corpse without a soul...
Nov 4, 2002
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#3
Good. It's about time some of these laws were put into effect and/or enforced.

You (the hypothetical immigrant) want to work here, get your fucking papers.

and leave your 3rd world diseases at home, there was a reason for Ellis Island.
 

VMS

Victim of high standards and low personal skills.
Apr 26, 2006
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#5
Pure stupidity.

The reason there were all those illegal immigrants in Arizona? Because there were shitloads of jobs that were getting unfilled in Arizona.

Remove the workforce, and those jobs go unfilled.

Those jobs go unfilled, the businesses that formerly employed those workers either shut down or leave if they can.

Those business close down, the businesses THEY supported close down, you fuck yourself in the ass.

This is a perfect example of the real root of the immigration problem: INS has their head up their ass. INS has screwed up the quotas for incoming immigrants for decades. They make it easier for college-educated immigrants to get into this country (who are REALLY going to take American jobs...) and make it next to impossible for unskilled labor to get into this country.

Meanwhile, what does this country's economy need more than anything else?

Unskilled labor.

Open the quotas for unskilled/less skilled labor to get into this country and then you can HAVE your Hispanic version of Ellis Island to screen the incoming immigrants. You can HAVE background checks, documentation, and a way to get rid of the truly bad apples.

Because the way things are right now, the flood over the border is because both the people who just want jobs and the people who are smuggling drugs/terrorists/***ists, etc. are intermixed. Give the people who legitimately want to work the jobs the American economy needs them to work, and it actually becomes practical to shoot everyone crossing the border.

There's a reason tightening border security hasn't worked: the economic forces are too fucking strong. Relieve the pressure of those economic forces and then you can actually have border security.
 

Max Johnson

Registered User
Oct 14, 2004
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#6
Yeah. It's just coincidence that Arizona happens to be right next to Mexico.

I agree though...up the quotas if need be but actively deport all the illegals. This way the assholes can't say you're racist and the other assholes can't whine about 'jobs Americans won't do' (but somehow did for years).
 

Zona992006

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Jan 26, 2007
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#7
GOOD JOB Arizona. Now if you could only deport zona992006 from wackbag to Africa where he'd be more happy
But I have my papers.

I have been legal for weeks now. Thanks for showing the love though.
 

Zona992006

New Wackbag
Jan 26, 2007
4,129
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#8
Pure stupidity.

The reason there were all those illegal immigrants in Arizona? Because there were shitloads of jobs that were getting unfilled in Arizona.

Remove the workforce, and those jobs go unfilled.

Those jobs go unfilled, the businesses that formerly employed those workers either shut down or leave if they can.

Those business close down, the businesses THEY supported close down, you fuck yourself in the ass.

This is a perfect example of the real root of the immigration problem: INS has their head up their ass. INS has screwed up the quotas for incoming immigrants for decades. They make it easier for college-educated immigrants to get into this country (who are REALLY going to take American jobs...) and make it next to impossible for unskilled labor to get into this country.

Meanwhile, what does this country's economy need more than anything else?

Unskilled labor.

Open the quotas for unskilled/less skilled labor to get into this country and then you can HAVE your Hispanic version of Ellis Island to screen the incoming immigrants. You can HAVE background checks, documentation, and a way to get rid of the truly bad apples.

Because the way things are right now, the flood over the border is because both the people who just want jobs and the people who are smuggling drugs/terrorists/***ists, etc. are intermixed. Give the people who legitimately want to work the jobs the American economy needs them to work, and it actually becomes practical to shoot everyone crossing the border.

There's a reason tightening border security hasn't worked: the economic forces are too fucking strong. Relieve the pressure of those economic forces and then you can actually have border security.
Wow, what an intelligent post. The typical response in here will be, get rid of the beaners, spics etc.

Dude, you are not allowed to post such logical things in here. LOL
 

Fuck Crosby

Bills. Beers. Broads.
Feb 8, 2006
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#9
About time, 49 other states should follow their idea
 

VMS

Victim of high standards and low personal skills.
Apr 26, 2006
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#10
Yeah. It's just coincidence that Arizona happens to be right next to Mexico.
Of course not. Republican state house + source of cheap labor = great economy. Until they shoot themselves in the foot with this stuff.

I agree though...up the quotas if need be but actively deport all the illegals. This way the assholes can't say you're racist and the other assholes can't whine about 'jobs Americans won't do' (but somehow did for years).
Ummmm....... RONG.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but your emphasis is on getting rid of the illegals already in this country. You're pretty nonchalant towards the upping of the quotas, which means you're more worried about the branches than the trunk of the tree, so to speak.

Here's a little clue: we CAN'T get rid of all the illegals. Not if we were willing to go all out to get rid of the illegals, up to and including gas chambers and death camps.

You don't push out 5-15 million people. It's just not a practical reality.

Shit, in the decade before WWII, Germany made their country a hell of a lot more unhospitable to Jews than this country could ever be to illegal immigrants, and maybe pushed out half of their Jewish population before they started up the death camps. You really think softie Americans can get a better success percentage than that?

If you believe any politician or talking head who says that we can't go with any form of amnesty, you're gullible and they're either playing you or they're idiots.

We are stuck with at least 2.5-7.5 million illegals in this country. There's no way we're getting rid of more than half. Just not happening. Live with that reality for a second, and THEN figure out how to make the best of that reality.

Kill the root of the problem (INS's fucked up quotas), come to some sort of accommodation with the illegals already in this country, and shut down the further illegal traffic across the border. It's the only thing that makes any practical sense, other than just letting everyone through.
 

Max Johnson

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Oct 14, 2004
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#11
Not RONG!

There are illegals here who are arrested repeatedly for unrelated problems like public intoxication and 'released into the wild' with not a care in the world. I am for upping the quotas but I'm not sure how much because I don't have a degree in macroeconomics. Up it some for now and see how much it needs to be corrected. Maybe do it on a gradual scale to make up for the illegals being actively deported.

My main concern is getting rid of the illegals. I'm not saying you have to launch large scale manhunts but it's just absurd to me how many times illegals come to the attention of the law and absolutely nothing is done to deport them. If people have to mow their own lawns or certain things cost more, people will get used to it. You can't expect the unskilled American workers to compete with people who are willing to live 10 in a room sleeping in shifts. The people who have lived in this country legally for the last hundred years have worked so that their children wouldn't have to live in those conditions.
 

VMS

Victim of high standards and low personal skills.
Apr 26, 2006
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#12
Not RONG!

There are illegals here who are arrested repeatedly for unrelated problems like public intoxication and 'released into the wild' with not a care in the world. I am for upping the quotas but I'm not sure how much because I don't have a degree in macroeconomics. Up it some for now and see how much it needs to be corrected. Maybe do it on a gradual scale to make up for the illegals being actively deported.

My main concern is getting rid of the illegals. I'm not saying you have to launch large scale manhunts but it's just absurd to me how many times illegals come to the attention of the law and absolutely nothing is done to deport them. If people have to mow their own lawns or certain things cost more, people will get used to it. You can't expect the unskilled American workers to compete with people who are willing to live 10 in a room sleeping in shifts. The people who have lived in this country legally for the last hundred years have worked so that their children wouldn't have to live in those conditions.
Your position is not cohesive. You respond to illegal immigration from multiple points, but don't tie them together.

To solve the issue, there needs to be a COHESIVE and COMPREHENSIVE response. Something where the different parts of the solution don't work against each other.

Americans have the CHOICE to be skilled or unskilled laborers. Unless you are truly and medically retarded, there isn't a single good reason for an American to be an unskilled laborer. Shit, this country gives you a high school education for FREE. If you walk out of high school as an unskilled laborer, fit only to pick oranges or sell newspapers on the side of the road, that's on YOU, not on illegal immigrants.

Read the summation of my previous post:
Kill the root of the problem (INS's fucked up quotas), come to some sort of accommodation with the illegals already in this country, and shut down the further illegal traffic across the border. It's the only thing that makes any practical sense, other than just letting everyone through.
And explain how that doesn't work, and doesn't make sense.

You're coming from an attitude of punishing the illegals and hating them because they're taking away American jobs.

Speaking to the hypothetical American who lost his job to an illegal, if an unskilled Honduran can take away your job, YOU FUCKED UP IN LIFE. Sorry, but that's the way it is. All those teachers, parents, and guidance counselors who told you to stay in school and work hard? Well their "bullshit" isn't so much bullshit now, is it? Because if you lost your job to a guy who's so illiterate he can't sign his own name, that's on YOU not on him.

THERE IS NO WAY TO DO ANYTHING in a way that won't hurt some Americans. The idea is to help America as a WHOLE while making it possible for everyone to do better. If some choose not to take advantage of those opportunities, that's on them. It's not on me, it's not on you, and it's not on the politicians to "fix" things for their incompetent asses.

If your biggest worry about illegal immigration is that some of them drunk drive (which is horrible and I utterly condemn), then look at the proposed "solutions" made by guys like Huckabee, and extrapolate what happens in another 3-4 decades under those policies.
 

Creasy Bear

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#13
Pure stupidity.

The reason there were all those illegal immigrants in Arizona? Because there were shitloads of jobs that were getting unfilled in Arizona.

Remove the workforce, and those jobs go unfilled.
What about all of those poor blacks in Louisiana who were displaced by Hurricane Katrina? Go-getters that they are, I'm sure they'll be more than eager to move to Arizona and fill the void.

:icon_roll

As if.

It's much easier to sit on their fat asses in Houston TWO FUCKING YEARS LATER and piss and moan about being abandoned by the government while they wait for their next check to arrive.

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/metropolitan/5091242.html

Two years later, Katrina survivors deluged by stress.

 

VMS

Victim of high standards and low personal skills.
Apr 26, 2006
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#14
For the record, the "come to some sort of accommodation" could easily include a proviso that any "amnestied" former illegal convicted of a crime would get shipped back to his/her country of origin.

Actually, that'd probably be needed to pass through Congress.

We need their labor. They want those jobs. Putting those two together both helps the American economy and also kills 90+% of the illegal border traffic, making it much more manageable to catch the drug smugglers and the terrorists.

It's a win-win-win, for everyone except those who want to make political hay out of illegal immigration.
 

Kris_LTRMa

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Nov 17, 2006
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#15
Illegals are just that - illegals. They're breaking our laws and yet we allow them to stay here. Even those who have been arrested & jailed are still permitted to stay here - why? It costs money that we - the taxpayers - don't have.
Witness this...from Newsday on 2-29-08

[The probation department spends up to $375,000 annually to supervise as many as 225 undocumented immigrants, including 36 sex offenders, John Desmond told the Suffolk Legislature's Public Safety Committee.....
....

Daily costs for Suffolk Probation Department to monitor offenders:

$3.50 basic offender

$7.72 offender with drunken-driving convictions

$9.19 sex offender

Suffolk's annual cost to monitor undocumented immigrants: $350,000 to $375,000

Number of undocumented immigrants in Suffolk probation system: 200 to 225


Number of people in Suffolk probation system in 2007: 16,000[/quote]

That's just Suffolk county. Nassau hasn't released their figures but from what I've been told the Nassau County Correctional Facility is approximately 15% full with illegals. I'm not talking Hispanic population, I'm just talking illegals. This is according to one of the Spanish deacons at my church. The jail falls under the jurisdiction of my parish, so we're "fortunate" enough to be the ones to have to minister to these people.

And I'm sorry but I'm not buying into the liberal point of view that 'businesses need labor' crap. That's nothing more than a veiled threat by business ... if they can't have cheap labor then we're going to pay more for goods & services. There are other mitigating factors to consider, the least of which is their labor pool.
 

VMS

Victim of high standards and low personal skills.
Apr 26, 2006
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#16
And I'm sorry but I'm not buying into the liberal point of view that 'businesses need labor' crap. That's nothing more than a veiled threat by business ... if they can't have cheap labor then we're going to pay more for goods & services. There are other mitigating factors to consider, the least of which is their labor pool.
How is the belief in free market economic principles a liberal thing?

The root of all of this is that GOVERNMENT FUCKED UP RUNNING THE ECONOMY. The INS controlled and controls the importation of labor. By setting the importation of unskilled cheap labor at unreasonably low levels, the INS created the illegal immigration problem by denying basic market forces. Jobs need filling, people want to fill those jobs, and to fill those jobs they needed to cross the border while breaking the law.

Put those people in a position where they're breaking the law, and they're more likely to break the law MORE.

What's your solution? Better question: will your solution actually WORK? How many illegals do you think your solution would actually get rid of? One million? Two million? Let's say your solution (whatever it is) succeed beyond all expectations, and we get rid of four million illegals in the next decade. Out of 5-15 million illegals.

How's that working for ya?

The problem in the 80s wasn't that Reagan gave amnesty to the illegals: it was that INS didn't rework their quotas to reflect what the American economy needed and was going to recruit (legally or illegally) from south of the border.

Fix INS.

Figure out what to do with the illegals already in this country and who aren't going away.

Tighten down on border security.

That's the only SOLUTION to border control that'll actually work, because otherwise all you're doing is creating another time bomb that we have to fix in another 25 years.
 

Zona992006

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Jan 26, 2007
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#17
What about all of those poor blacks in Louisiana who were displaced by Hurricane Katrina? Go-getters that they are, I'm sure they'll be more than eager to move to Arizona and fill the void.

:icon_roll

As if.

It's much easier to sit on their fat asses in Houston TWO FUCKING YEARS LATER and piss and moan about being abandoned by the government while they wait for their next check to arrive.

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/metropolitan/5091242.html

Two years later, Katrina survivors deluged by stress.


Uh, dude, there is an influx of Katrina victims here now in Arizona. Its cute your trying to turn this black (again) but this makes no sense.
 

Hudson

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#18
Seemed to have worked pretty well in Hazelton Pa.:icon_roll:icon_roll

Illegal Immigration Lawsuit Brief Filed in Hazleton, PA
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

By Tom Fitton
Feb 26, 2008


You may recall that in July of 2007, a federal judge ruled against two City of Hazleton, PA, ordinances dealing with the employment and harboring of illegal aliens. But that was not the end of the story. The lawsuit is now on appeal. And, on February 14, 2008, we filed an amicus curiae brief with the United States Court of Appeals for the 3rd Circuit in support of Hazleton.

Illegal Immigration Lawsuit Brief Filed in Hazleton, PA

(By the way, want to take a guess at which organization is leading the legal campaign against Hazleton? You guessed it. The American Civil Liberties Union [ACLU]. Here’s the Judicial Watch argument in a nutshell: “…The regulation of the landlord-tenant and employment relationships – are well within the traditional police and licensing powers of the City. Because the ordinances do not seek specifically to regulate immigration, they are not preempted by federal immigration law,” Judicial Watch argued in its brief. “In fact, the ordinances work in harmony with federal law and are entirely consistent with purposes set forth by Congress in enacting legislation concerning immigration. They also fit comfortably within well-established case law authorizing local government actions.” (You can read the rest here.)


***


By way of review, Hazleton’s Ordinance 2006-13, otherwise known as the Rental Registration Ordinance, requires a person who intends to rent a “dwelling unit” in the City of Hazleton to submit an application and obtain an occupancy permit. (To obtain such a permit an applicant must provide “proper identification showing proof of legal citizenship and/or residency.”) Ordinance 2006-18, otherwise known as the Illegal Immigration Relief Act, prohibits any business entity in the City of Hazleton that holds a business permit from employing an illegal alien. This ordinance also prohibits any person or business entity owning a dwelling unit in Hazleton from harboring an illegal alien in that unit.

The Supreme Court has a handy three-part test to determine whether or not state immigration laws violate the Supremacy Clause, which gives precedence to federal laws over state laws. JW maintains these ordinances are completely consistent with the Constitution.
http://www.nationalledger.com/artman/publish/article_272619081.shtml
 

VMS

Victim of high standards and low personal skills.
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#19
Jun 2, 2005
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#20
There's a reason tightening border security hasn't worked: the economic forces are too fucking strong. Relieve the pressure of those economic forces and then you can actually have border security.
X2 for the War on Drugs. The economic forces of supply and demand are very obvious in almost all of the hot button issues we have int his country. If there's a huge demand, there will be a supplier whether legal or not.
 
Jun 2, 2005
15,516
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Dallas
#21
What about all of those poor blacks in Louisiana who were displaced by Hurricane Katrina? Go-getters that they are, I'm sure they'll be more than eager to move to Arizona and fill the void.

:icon_roll

As if.

It's much easier to sit on their fat asses in Houston TWO FUCKING YEARS LATER and piss and moan about being abandoned by the government while they wait for their next check to arrive.

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/metropolitan/5091242.html

Two years later, Katrina survivors deluged by stress.

The Story said:
"On Sundays, when you come to my house, I got my hymns on and they get me through," said Riley, who lives with her two grandchildren and three sons at the Park at Lakeside apartment complex. "And sometimes I sit and think, and then I start to cry because I have no family members here."
In my opinion, this is the biggest problem. You super conservatives wanted a religious movement, and here you have it! An entire group of victims who sing hymns and "put it all in god's hands". When you tell everyone there's a magical ghost in the sky that's going to take care of them you allow them to exclude themselves from the desire for self reliance.

Actually, pretty much all nanny-state laws accomplish this. Keep it up, then the country keeps getting fatter and lazier you might get it... Or you won't.
 

Max Johnson

Registered User
Oct 14, 2004
317
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#22
Your position is not cohesive. You respond to illegal immigration from multiple points, but don't tie them together.

To solve the issue, there needs to be a COHESIVE and COMPREHENSIVE response. Something where the different parts of the solution don't work against each other.

Americans have the CHOICE to be skilled or unskilled laborers. Unless you are truly and medically retarded, there isn't a single good reason for an American to be an unskilled laborer. Shit, this country gives you a high school education for FREE. If you walk out of high school as an unskilled laborer, fit only to pick oranges or sell newspapers on the side of the road, that's on YOU, not on illegal immigrants.

Read the summation of my previous post:

And explain how that doesn't work, and doesn't make sense.

You're coming from an attitude of punishing the illegals and hating them because they're taking away American jobs.

Speaking to the hypothetical American who lost his job to an illegal, if an unskilled Honduran can take away your job, YOU FUCKED UP IN LIFE. Sorry, but that's the way it is. All those teachers, parents, and guidance counselors who told you to stay in school and work hard? Well their "bullshit" isn't so much bullshit now, is it? Because if you lost your job to a guy who's so illiterate he can't sign his own name, that's on YOU not on him.

THERE IS NO WAY TO DO ANYTHING in a way that won't hurt some Americans. The idea is to help America as a WHOLE while making it possible for everyone to do better. If some choose not to take advantage of those opportunities, that's on them. It's not on me, it's not on you, and it's not on the politicians to "fix" things for their incompetent asses.

If your biggest worry about illegal immigration is that some of them drunk drive (which is horrible and I utterly condemn), then look at the proposed "solutions" made by guys like Huckabee, and extrapolate what happens in another 3-4 decades under those policies.

Excuse me if I don't deliver a complete cohesive dissertation on a complex social issue during a 5 minute post on a radio show message board. If I was going to address the issue at length, there would be welfare reform involved to help cover for the lost labor.

Whether people fucked up in life or not, the unskilled labor in this country is still going to be here. Maybe not in your neighborhood or mine but it exists. Under the current system, you pay for them through welfare and you pay for the illegals through them using countless services that they don't pay for at all themselves (taxes). Why not try to combine those problems and get rid of the illegals and try to put the welfare recipients in those jobs. Even if they don't work at the level of the illegals, it's still better than what they're doing now. There was a welfare shelter near a job site and those fuckers were walking around doing nothing day after day with ipods, designer clothes, ...there's something wrong with that.

Real quick:

Deport all the illegals
Up the quotas somewhat to fill the void
Replace illegal workers with welfare recipients whenever possible (able bodied welfarians).
 

Hudson

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#23
Yeah, ummmm... it's Hazleton.

Hazleton isn't exactly a city awash in illegal immigration. It's not exactly a town awash in, well, washing.

It's a nice enough place- I've got a good friend who lives there. But Hazleton passing an ordinance dealing with illegal immigration is about as reactionary as you can get.
I grew up in Pa. Hazleton was a dump when I left
 

Zona992006

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Jan 26, 2007
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#24
Quote:
Originally Posted by VMS
Yeah, ummmm... it's Hazleton.

Hazleton isn't exactly a city awash in illegal immigration. It's not exactly a town awash in, well, washing.

It's a nice enough place- I've got a good friend who lives there. But Hazleton passing an ordinance dealing with illegal immigration is about as reactionary as you can get.

I grew up in Pa. Hazleton was a dump when I left

LOL
 

CougarHunter

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Mar 2, 2006
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#25
Best estimate of the illegal population is 30-50 million.