When the numbers are good. Of course. None of us have the actual numbers. neither company will release them. But I will ask something though. What are the estimates of everyone here of what the "actual" numbers are? So basically what we all believe is what, Stern has what, 200,000 as a weekly cume and O&A have over a million? With no advertising or promotion or even acknowledgment that O&A even exist for the most part on XM this is what people are telling me. Sirius has driven their advertising primarily off the fact that they have Howard Stern. It is nowhere beyond reason to see that out of their listenership that he has the lion's share of it. As for a comparison. Stern left terrestrial radio with 12 million listeners. To now only have a million two seems really about where it should be. Stern had a ready made audience base driven off the fact he could market it while he was still on FM. And the fact that Sirius marketed it properly. So what I want to know. Are people here saying that O&A have that many more listeners than Stern? It's way too easy to say well Arbitron is wrong, or outdated. Show proof to the contrary. Arbitron has served as a ratings standard for years. If it were that antiquated or outdated it would have been done with long ago. Far too many advertising dollars are spent based on those numbers. Everyone spins these days. People here just choose to buy one version of it. Sad to see what happens when facts show differently it's hard to recover in it. If XM has hard numbers contrary to this, let them show them.