Movie Captain Marvel, starring Brie Larson: 03/08/19

LiddyRules

I'm Gonna Be The Bestest Pilot in the Galaxy
There’s a line in Winter Soldier where Fury says the last time he trusted a friend he lost his eye. That’s a cool line, and it allows people to come up with all kinds of badass stories in their minds of spies betraying each other and stabbing their eyes out and stuff.

When you have situations where people make up their own stories in their minds, the reality can oftentimes be disappointing. This is true for sequels as well, (see Star Wars Episode 8) but it’s not quite the same thing.

With prequels, we are told the story including the ending, so our imagination need only conjure the setup. So it seems easier to imagine what happened. This is why Prequels are usually a terrible idea. As you said yourself, the story would have been obvious, and what exactly is the point of that?

With sequels we are told only the setup, so our imagination must conjure the entire resolution. So it’s a far better bet that we will be wrong when we imagine a sequel’s outcome.

The shock that you are experiencing is because Marvel took the expectations established with that badass line and turned them on their ear. Subversion of expectations as a storytelling device has become increasingly trendy since the Red Wedding - arguably the most controversial and talked about pop cultural event of the century.
I didn't have a problem with the eye thing. I honestly preferred what they did with the cat to some super badass Snyderrific moment.
 

Pigdango

Silence, you mortal Fuck!
Donator
I wish you were my attorney.
I think the best route they could have taken without messing up the entire story would have been for Fury to already have the patch when the movie started. I'm not sure why they chose to give the eye patch an origin story beyond what was already provided in The Winter Soldier. But this is the primary flaw in every prequel.

The X-Men franchise probably had the best and worst example of this, first showing how Professor X became paralyzed:

And then inexplicably choosing to show how he lost his hair:

And of course, Solo is a masterclass in ruining a character by revealing every unnecessary detail about him.
 

LiddyRules

I'm Gonna Be The Bestest Pilot in the Galaxy
I think the best route they could have taken without messing up the entire story would have been for Fury to already have the patch when the movie started. I'm not sure why they chose to give the eye patch an origin story beyond what was already provided in The Winter Soldier. But this is the primary flaw in every prequel.

The X-Men franchise probably had the best and worst example of this, first showing how Professor X became paralyzed:

And then inexplicably choosing to show how he lost his hair:

And of course, Solo is a masterclass in ruining a character by revealing every unnecessary detail about him.
Speaking of which, should we plan for an HitW this week?
 

Pigdango

Silence, you mortal Fuck!
Donator
I didn't have a problem with the eye thing. I honestly preferred what they did with the cat to some super badass Snyderrific moment.
I didn't have a problem with it either, because it wasn't something I cared about going into the movie. It didn't ruin Fury's character for me, it was just unnecessary.
 

LiddyRules

I'm Gonna Be The Bestest Pilot in the Galaxy
I didn't have a problem with it either, because it wasn't something I cared about going into the movie. It didn't ruin Fury's character for me, it was just unnecessary.
I'm going to disagree with you somewhat. I'm not looking to convert you, I'm looking to explain myself.

This movie was as much Nick Fury's origin story as it was Carol's. At the start he's a dorky desk jockey, and throughout the movie, he finds his inner badass. His journey was the best part of the movie for me. So as unnecessary as it is, learning how he lost his eye had to be part of the movie because it fit the arc he was on.* And him creating a mystery as to the eye loss as something more than the cat scratch fits the dark secret mythology Fury cultivates.

Like you said, the problems with prequels is that they shatter the mythology, but you have to accept that as a nature of the evil of prequels. And when it comes to things like all of Solo or Charles' hair loss, it barely tracks. As it goes, I feel that having it be some minor, innocuous thing (though I'd argue that being scratched by an alien isn't really 'minor') is the better option compared to - I don't know what people wanted? Some cock validation of him fighting off an army of Skrulls single-handedly while saving a burning orphanage? That would be a lot less interesting to me.

* And yes, you can say "but what if he's on desk duty because he lost his eye and then and then and then and then." Fine. But you can say that with anything. Why couldn't he jump out of the gate in full badass leather duster mode?
 
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BIV

I'm Biv Dick Black, the Over Poster.
Here is my take on the eye thing and why I despise it.


Fury in this movie, even at the end, is still a happy-go lucky type. There is something that happened between Marvel and Iron Man (that I don't want to see) that turned him into the dark, cynical figure that he becomes. This loss of his eye was a symbol of that. I don't know what the intention was, but it completely trivializes his character. It's not "subverting expectations", it's just stupid. It turns the baddest man in the MCU into a comic relief sidekick.


Two other issues:


1. Why did the cat scratch him in the first place? It's obviously intelligent and Fury was nothing but cool to him.

2. Why did he have a box of eyeballs? We know from Winter Soldier that he never lost the eye, it's just horribly fucked up.
 

Pigdango

Silence, you mortal Fuck!
Donator
Here is my take on the eye thing and why I despise it.


Fury in this movie, even at the end, is still a happy-go lucky type. There is something that happened between Marvel and Iron Man (that I don't want to see) that turned him into the dark, cynical figure that he becomes. This loss of his eye was a symbol of that. I don't know what the intention was, but it completely trivializes his character. It's not "subverting expectations", it's just stupid. It turns the baddest man in the MCU into a comic relief sidekick.


Two other issues:


1. Why did the cat scratch him in the first place? It's obviously intelligent and Fury was nothing but cool to him.

2. Why did he have a box of eyeballs? We know from Winter Soldier that he never lost the eye, it's just horribly fucked up.
Is he really dark and cynical in Avengers though? I guess that’s the part I’m missing in all this.

Also:

1) Cats are cunts. Even flerken cats
2) he had the box because Coulson assumed he would rather have a glass eye than a dead tissue eye. Fury decided to keep the dead tissue eye, which came in handy in TWS.
 

LiddyRules

I'm Gonna Be The Bestest Pilot in the Galaxy
Is he really dark and cynical in Avengers though? I guess that’s the part I’m missing in all this.

Also:

1) Cats are cunts. Even flerken cats
2) he had the box because Coulson assumed he would rather have a glass eye than a dead tissue eye. Fury decided to keep the dead tissue eye, which came in handy in TWS.
I don't see him as dark and cynical. I see him as "fuck you all, I know what I'm doing." Cynical sure, but confident more than dark.
 

Pigdango

Silence, you mortal Fuck!
Donator
I don't see him as dark and cynical. I see him as "fuck you all, I know what I'm doing." Cynical sure, but confident more than dark.
I went back and watched some of Fury's greatest hits on YouTube, and he seems very much to be the same character in Captain Marvel that he is in the earlier films. Mistrusting of authority, going off on his own, smart ass, soft spot for pussy. I don't know.
 

BIV

I'm Biv Dick Black, the Over Poster.
And lets just reiterate how terrible the use of music was in this movie.


I'm sure you guys have talked about this already, but what the Hell was with using that Nirvana song? That was supposed to be a manifestation of her sub conscious, but she wouldn't know that song at all.


And Nevermind didn't get printed on vinyl until late '96.....just sayin'.
 

BIV

I'm Biv Dick Black, the Over Poster.
I went back and watched some of Fury's greatest hits on YouTube, and he seems very much to be the same character in Captain Marvel that he is in the earlier films. Mistrusting of authority, going off on his own, smart ass, soft spot for pussy. I don't know.
Thinking back, I'll admit that I can't picture Fury pre-Avengers 1. So maybe my memory doesn't match his earlier tone.


It's still horse shit.



Side note, I heard that she filmed Endgame before she filmed Captain Marvel. That could explain why her performance was stilted and all over the map.
 

crippledalbino

The God of 42nd Street
Donator
And lets just reiterate how terrible the use of music was in this movie.


I'm sure you guys have talked about this already, but what the Hell was with using that Nirvana song? That was supposed to be a manifestation of her sub conscious, but she wouldn't know that song at all.


And Nevermind didn't get printed on vinyl until late '96.....just sayin'.
Yeah, it's either a mistake or simply just making their own rules for their own universe which LOOKS like ours a lot, but in the end is just a goddamn movie.
 

BIV

I'm Biv Dick Black, the Over Poster.
Yeah, it's either a mistake or simply just making their own rules for their own universe which LOOKS like ours a lot, but in the end is just a goddamn movie.
Except they were fucking meticulous about everything else. They even made sure the decorations in the Blockbuster were appropriate to what was hitting video.


So to shove a song in that a) doesn't fit the scene and B) doesn't fit the plot is just weird as fuck and extremely offputting.


Ugh....and "I'm just a girl" playing during the fight scene was chill inducing.


GotG gets away with it because it's part of the plot and the character. In Marvel's case, they should have stuck to pop songs while on Earth, score when you are in space. It was jarring and awful. I saw one guy say that it should have been something like RatM, and that would have been much better than a song going half the speed of the scene, but I still don't think that works. The orchestral score would have made that scene much better
 

LiddyRules

I'm Gonna Be The Bestest Pilot in the Galaxy
Yeah, it's either a mistake or simply just making their own rules for their own universe which LOOKS like ours a lot, but in the end is just a goddamn movie.
Did you realize they killed Stan Lee before we could audit his 1995 day calendar? Just saying.
 

crippledalbino

The God of 42nd Street
Donator
Except they were fucking meticulous about everything else. They even made sure the decorations in the Blockbuster were appropriate to what was hitting video.


So to shove a song in that a) doesn't fit the scene and B) doesn't fit the plot is just weird as fuck and extremely offputting.


Ugh....and "I'm just a girl" playing during the fight scene was chill inducing.


GotG gets away with it because it's part of the plot and the character. In Marvel's case, they should have stuck to pop songs while on Earth, score when you are in space. It was jarring and awful. I saw one guy say that it should have been something like RatM, and that would have been much better than a song going half the speed of the scene, but I still don't think that works. The orchestral score would have made that scene much better
Well, sorry that Gwen Stefani got in the way of the realism for you in the super powered space girl movie.
 

BIV

I'm Biv Dick Black, the Over Poster.
Well, sorry that Gwen Stefani got in the way of the realism for you in the super powered space girl movie.
Realism isn't the point. The point is, in attempt to shoehorn in references, Solo style, they distracted from what was happening on the screen.


As a chick sitting behind me put it; "Gwen Steffani? Really?"


I think all 30 people in the theater laughed.


This movie was soooooo close to being really good. They just repeatedly shot themselves in the foot.
 

crippledalbino

The God of 42nd Street
Donator
Realism isn't the point. The point is, in attempt to shoehorn in references, Solo style, they distracted from what was happening on the screen.


As a chick sitting behind me put it; "Gwen Steffani? Really?"


I think all 30 people in the theater laughed.


This movie was soooooo close to being really good. They just repeatedly shot themselves in the foot.
 

LiddyRules

I'm Gonna Be The Bestest Pilot in the Galaxy
Well, sorry that Gwen Stefani got in the way of the realism for you in the super powered space girl movie.
The thing BIV seems to be missing is that the movie was set in the 1990s. Hence all the 90s music.
 

Stormrider666

Hell is home.
Donator
And lets just reiterate how terrible the use of music was in this movie.


I'm sure you guys have talked about this already, but what the Hell was with using that Nirvana song? That was supposed to be a manifestation of her sub conscious, but she wouldn't know that song at all.


And Nevermind didn't get printed on vinyl until late '96.....just sayin'.
Quick question, was the song playing on vinyl during that scene?
 

BIV

I'm Biv Dick Black, the Over Poster.
The thing BIV seems to be missing is that the movie was set in the 1990s. Hence all the 90s music.
I'm not missing that in the slightest. It just didn't work. It was handled like a high school theater student.


And it still doesn't explain why she had a song she had never heard in her subconscious.

Quick question, was the song playing on vinyl during that scene?
Kinda, it was playing on vinyl in her subconscious. That part of my post was more in the way of a joke than real complaint.
 

Stormrider666

Hell is home.
Donator
I'm not missing that in the slightest. It just didn't work. It was handled like a high school theater student.


And it still doesn't explain why she had a song she had never heard in her subconscious.


Kinda, it was playing on vinyl in her subconscious. That part of my post was more in the way of a joke than real complaint.
I just wanted to make sure. I thought the song was a weird choice for that scene, not that it didn't make sense because it was playing on vinyl.
 

Pigdango

Silence, you mortal Fuck!
Donator
And lets just reiterate how terrible the use of music was in this movie.


I'm sure you guys have talked about this already, but what the Hell was with using that Nirvana song? That was supposed to be a manifestation of her sub conscious, but she wouldn't know that song at all.


And Nevermind didn't get printed on vinyl until late '96.....just sayin'.
How do you know she didn’t hear the song when she was in the car with fury? I got the sense that was a pretty long road trip to project Pegasus, and as long as they were in the car for five minutes they probably heard that garbage song.
 

BIV

I'm Biv Dick Black, the Over Poster.
How do you know she didn’t hear the song when she was in the car with fury? I got the sense that was a pretty long road trip to project Pegasus, and as long as they were in the car for five minutes they probably heard that garbage song.
Somehow, I don't see Fury as a grunge fan
 
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