Discussion in 'Current Events' started by BIV, Oct 31, 2012.
Reverse eugenics! Because Hitler!
That is so nice, they are only injecting babies with poison to kill them if the parents have more than 1 kid, to help families. That is so loving and liberal.
It reminds me of Ant saying the Chinese enjoy being slaves for Apple and the nets are just there so they can't throw stuff out of the windows.
Who the fuck ever claimed that the Chinese government is nice and/or loving and/or liberal?
As the quote points out the Chinese government claims that. Just like its loving and liberal for Obama to kill innocent people with drone strikes and take out foreign governments with terrorist... I mean rebel groups., at least that's what democrats claim.
Yes... it's called world politics. It's not nice or pretty. It's how adults operate. A shocking revelation you've recently made?
Welcome to the cruel world, junior.
They are communists. Not really getting any more leftist than that.
Who the fuck ever claimed that the Chinese government is liberal?
This may come as a shock to you, Don... but "liberal" isn't a synonym for "leftist" for those of us who aren't obsessed with partisan politics.
"Chinese think tank" A.K.A. "Chink Tank".
They are different extremes of the same thing. Liberal: one with left leaning political views. Leftist: One with extreme liberal views.
EDIT: You know, I was going to give you an example of a liberal who isn't a leftist, but I can't come up with one off the top of my head.
How about Vlad Putin? He's(technically speaking) a leftist commie rooskie, but the only thing liberal about him is how he liberally applies the beatings to his political opponents.
Every good liberal government gets itself a nice dictator once it gets powerful enough. That way the social elite get to live like kings while the rest of the nation live in impoverished, socialist, bleak, liberal harmony.
Throwing people in jail for opposition speech is pretty liberal. It's Obama's wet dream.
I don't see much difference between the Chinese and democrats who claim to be liberals. If Democrats could have their way, we would be a lot more like China or North Korea. Current day liberals aren't liberals if you go by the original definition of the word (Thomas Jefferson was a real liberal) but its 1984 and the meaning of words has changed.
Having been to China...its officially communist. But holy fuck are they capitalist.
Why do you think a major corporation paid for us to go there?
China isn't communist. It's technically fascist, in the PoliSci meaning of the term.
Strong unelected central government with many sectors of the economy directly controlled by the government, many sectors in a controlled "free market", with a very authoritarian social policy.
Which is what happens to a communist regime when they start adding capitalist reforms without losing power.
Trying to judge foreign governments on an American left/right scale is usually futile.
Americans, by international standards, have some really weird ideas. I happen to like most of them, but some don't.
The words "liberal" and "communist" both have two entirely separate meanings:
American liberals are the equivalent of European socialists, not European liberals. European liberals are in favor of free markets and civil rights, but opposed to socially progressive ideas such as gay marriage, drug legalization, prostitution. Almost the opposite of American liberals. The two concepts have nothing in common.
The two main concepts designated by the word "communist" are: 1. the party Lenin envisioned would lead Russia to Marx's socialist ideal and 2. the totalitarian clique that runs various dictatorships around the world. Nr. 2 has nothing to do with nr. 1. Nr. 2 communists like the Chinese Communist Party and Putin are actually leading their countries away from socialist ideals, towards a mixed fascist/capitalist economy a lot like the ones in the West.
I disagree. Its pretty much country-to-country semantics. I don't think American "liberals" are necessarily like Euro social/labor parties. The Democrats and the Liberal Party of Canada are uniquely centrist left-laning parties who are not true labor parties in the euro-leftist mold (they share much personnel and strategies too). Many current euro "liberal" parties are increasingly like American/Canadian liberals...look at Yabloko in Russia, the Lib-Dems in the UK, Venstre in Denmark, VLD in Belgium, etc.
I don't know. Maybe they were trying to troll a Chinese website to death. But seriously folks, that has nothing to do with whether the place is capitalist or not.
Socialism is the social system in property is commonly owned (and, since the only way to "commonly own" something is by government force, it's the system where property is government owned). American education is socialist. European healthcare is socialist. Soviet pretty much everything was socialist.
Fascism is the political system where property is officially privately owned (and private owners are allowed to profit), but it is used in a manner that is controlled by the state and for the state's purposes, whatever they may be. Some American sectors are fascist (the financial industry, healthcare, maybe even some parts of the car industry), and large parts of China's economy are fascist. Mussolini's Italy and Hitler's Germany were fascist. Keep in mind, however, fascism has nothing to do with concentration camps and conquering Europe. It tends to lead to those kinds of things, sure, because once you give someone that much power, they'll eventually use it to kill people, but you don't have to have mass murder to call something fascist.
Capitalism is the political system in which property is privately owned and the government has no power to control it in any way whatsoever. China isn't capitalist. The West isn't capitalist. We're about a third capitalist, a third fascist and another third socialist, with small variations on the exact proportions. China is half fascist, 15-20 percent socialist, and the rest capitalist. The late 19th century US was about 90% capitalist, 10% fascist.
Hope that cleared it up for you. Also, I wouldn't say fascism is better than socialism, but it's definitely a little more practical. But, morally, they're the same thing, and will lead to the same evils because they both concentrate power in the hands of the most ruthless, savage people around.