DHS keeps records of all your items during flight.

abudabit

New Wackbag
Oct 10, 2004
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#1
International travelers concerned about being labeled a terrorist or drug runner by secret Homeland Security algorithms may want to be careful what books they read on the plane. Newly revealed records show the government is storing such information for years.

Privacy advocates obtained database records showing that the government routinely records the race of people pulled aside for extra screening as they enter the country, along with cursory answers given to U.S. border inspectors about their purpose in traveling. In one case, the records note Electronic Frontier Foundation co-founder John Gilmore's choice of reading material, and worry over the number of small flashlights he'd packed for the trip.

The breadth of the information obtained by the Gilmore-funded Identity Project (using a Privacy Act request) shows the government's screening program at the border is actually a "surveillance dragnet," according to the group's spokesman Bill Scannell.

"There is so much sensitive information in the documents that it is clear that Homeland Security is not playing straight with the American people," Scannell said.

The documents show a tiny slice of the massive airline-record collection stored by the government, as well as the screening records mined for the controversial Department of Homeland Security passenger-rating system that assigns terrorist scores to travelers entering and leaving the country, including U.S. citizens.

The so-called Automated Targeting System scrutinizes every airline passenger entering or leaving the country using classified rules that tell agents which passengers to give extra screening to and which to deny entry or exit from the country.

The system relies on data ranging from the government's 700,000-name terrorism watchlist to data included in airline-travel database entries, known as Passenger Name Records, which airlines are required to submit to the government.

According to government descriptions, ATS mines data from intelligence, law enforcement and regulatory databases, looking for linkages in order to identify "high-risk" targets who may not already be on terrorist watchlists.

ATS was started in the late 1990s, but was little known until the government issued a notice about the system last fall. The government has subsequently modified the proposed rules for the system, shortening the length of time data is collected and allowing individuals to request some information used by the scoring system.

The government stores the PNRs for years and typically includes destinations, phone and e-mail contact information, meal requests, special health requests, payment information and frequent-flier numbers.

The Identity Project filed Privacy Act requests for five individuals to see the data stored on them by the government.

The requests revealed that the PNRs also included information on one requester's race, the phone numbers of overseas family members given to the airlines as emergency contact information, and a record of a purely European flight that had been booked overseas separately from an international itinerary, according to snippets of the documents shown to Wired News.

The request also revealed the screening system includes inspection notes from earlier border inspections.

One report about Gilmore notes: "PAX (passenger) has many small flashlights with pot leaves on them. He had a book entitled 'Drugs and Your Rights.'" Gilmore is an advocate for marijuana legalization.

Another inspection entry noted that Gilmore had "attended computer conference in Berlin and then traveled around Europe and Asia to visit friends. 100% baggage exam negative.... PAX is self employed 'Entrepreneur' in computer software business."

"They are noting people's race and they are writing down what people read," Scannell said.

It doesn't matter that Gilmore was reading a book about drugs, rather than Catcher in the Rye, according to Scannell. "A book is a book," Scannell said. "This is just plain wrong."

The documents have also turned Scannell against the Department of Homeland Security's proposal for screening airline passengers inside the United States.

That project, known as Secure Flight, will take watchlist screening out of the hands of airlines, by having the airlines send PNR data to the government ahead of each flight. While earlier versions included plans to rate passenger's threat level using data purchased from private companies, DHS now proposes only to compare data in the PNR against names on the watchlist, which largely disarmed civil libertarians' opposition to the program.

That's changed for Scannell now, who sees Secure Flight as just another version of ATS.

"They want people to get permission to travel," Scannell said. "They already instituted it for leaving and entering the country and now they want to do it to visit your Aunt Patty in Cleveland."


The Department of Homeland Security did not respond to a request for comment.
It's a very thin line.
 

mascan42

Registered User
Aug 26, 2002
18,629
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#2
Privacy advocates obtained database records showing that the government routinely records the race of people pulled aside for extra screening as they enter the country, along with cursory answers given to U.S. border inspectors about their purpose in traveling. In one case, the records note Electronic Frontier Foundation co-founder John Gilmore's choice of reading material, and worry over the number of small flashlights he'd packed for the trip.
So let me get this straight . . . the records say what the guy looks like (race), contains information that he volunatrily gave to the airline himself, and notes unusual objects that he brought on the plane with him. It's a conspiracy, maaaaaaan!
 

abudabit

New Wackbag
Oct 10, 2004
14,802
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#3
No conspiracy, just an escalating lack of respect for privacy.

And you don't voluntarily give them the info, read the story again. This is information they take when you get 'randomly' screened.
 

Sprite

permanent case of the Moooondays
Apr 27, 2005
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Jersey
#5
I don't care how much shit they want to know about me when I travel as long as my plane doesn't get blown up. If keeping all these records and personal information helps IN ANY WAY prevent terrorist attacks then I'm for it. My life and my safety are worth more than my privacy, and besides, I'm going to be dead in 50 years give or take so what the hell do I care they know my race, book I read on the plane or emergency contact phone numbers at the time. Big deal.
 
Jun 30, 2005
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outsiddah Boston
#6
first...you can't accept limitations on rights for protection...it doesn't work. You end up losing your rights...Second..If you CHOOSE to fly you must undergo the scrutiny of the agencies that secure the airlines. I believe that this is a very small piece of a huge puzzle that people in the depths of the pentagon and the cia are all over. Data is how we are going to stop future terrorist acts. My only concern is going overboard.
From reading the article it seems that this person is 'upset' that racial information was noted...Isn't that exactly what is needed? Call me an anti-pc asshole, but that is the first thing i want to look at when screening passengers...Inuits are not going to harpoon planes..
 
Aug 10, 2007
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#7
I prefer Ant's idea for a "Fly at your own risk" airline. A standard flat rate.. better yet, completely seal off the cockpit from the rest of the plane and just fly.
 

HummerTuesdays

Another girrrrl!!!
Apr 24, 2005
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#8
I wonder if they record the race so that they can prove that they are NOT racially profiling? If they didn't record the race then they *could* conceivably pick out all the brown people and leave the Master Race alone.
 

THE FEZ MAN

as a matter of fact i dont have 5$
Aug 23, 2002
41,290
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#9
ive been saying this shit for years. every were you go every thing you do is recorded, thats why i refuse to get "frequent shopper" cards, deal in cash as much as possible, and have a home made electro magnet in my basement that will pick up an engine block. fuck big brother and fuck any one that wants to roll over and play dead for "them"

those who would bargain liberty for security deserve neither
 

Fr. Dougal

Registered User
Feb 17, 2004
5,853
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#10
You're right. Fuck that. Stop invading my privacy, and stop all baggage screening at the airport. That's invasions of privacy, too. :rolleyes:

That next flight I'll take will get blown up by a terrorist, but hey... at least I'll die free! :icon_roll
 
#11
You're right. Fuck that. Stop invading my privacy, and stop all baggage screening at the airport. That's invasions of privacy, too. :rolleyes:

That next flight I'll take will get blown up by a terrorist, but hey... at least I'll die free! :icon_roll
Don't forget "and I want to pay more for groceries while I'm at it!"
 

THE FEZ MAN

as a matter of fact i dont have 5$
Aug 23, 2002
41,290
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#13
If it was the day after 9/11 would your opinions be the same?

yes they were, and yes they are.

screening some bags for explosives or taking guns away from those that are not licensed to carry them doesn't bother me, but taking my pocket knife or leafing thew my luggage to read my copy of "black juggs" or recording every thing that i buy at the super market is,quite frankly, is none of there business.

you do relise that when you have a "super card" or "frequent buyer" program records you purchases, you buy enough of the right stuff you can bet that some one is watching.

and you can count on some N$A/C!A spook reading every post on this board every day
 
#14
and you can count on some N$A/C!A spook reading every post on this board every day
I don't doubt it. And since they do, they already know what you're up to, what your likes/dislikes are, where to find you at any moment and whether or not you're a threat... So why do you care if they know what brand of olives you buy at the supermarket? You reveal far more here in a given week than you would in a year of credit card receipts.
 

LiddyRules

I'm Gonna Be The Bestest Pilot In The Whole Galaxy
Jun 1, 2005
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#15
I don't doubt it. And since they do, they already know what you're up to, what your likes/dislikes are, where to find you at any moment and whether or not you're a threat... So why do you care if they know what brand of olives you buy at the supermarket? You reveal far more here in a given week than you would in a year of credit card receipts.
I don't mean to speak for him but it's a matter of principle. By posting on here he is consciously giving out his thoughts and opinions without any frills. The credit card issue is something that ought to be "private" because he is not meaning to put all his purchases out there for everyone to see. And I'm equally scared of the corporations as I am the government. And I think what DHS is doing is bullshit. As well as the eye-rolling thought (however implicit) of if you are not willing to sacrifice privacy, you deserve to die.
 

commish13

Personal Friend of Chris Jericho
May 24, 2005
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#16
Who cares? What do you people have to hide that this even fucking matters?
 

LiddyRules

I'm Gonna Be The Bestest Pilot In The Whole Galaxy
Jun 1, 2005
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#17

LiddyRules

I'm Gonna Be The Bestest Pilot In The Whole Galaxy
Jun 1, 2005
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#19
Because what does it matter?
I guess I'm just silly that I don't want to have my privacy invaded. God forbid I want to live my own life without the fear of ever-encroaching governmental supervision.
 

BIV

I'm Biv Dick Black, the Over Poster.
Apr 22, 2002
78,168
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Seattle
#20
Too bad. You are flying on private property and are not guaranteed the "right" to fly. If you don't like the invasion of privacy, don't fly.
 

weakside

He was stupid. I was lucky. I will visit him soon.
Dec 9, 2004
3,871
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California
#21
This is a tough one…

At first glance, there doesn’t seem to be any problem with this. So what if there tracking who you and what activities you undertake on a plane? If your not planning anything illegal then you should have nothing to worry about.

But the problem is the more information you allow to be tracked and gathered about you the more generalizations can be made concerning that information. I like the example the Fez Man brought up about the frequent shopper cards. I use mine every time I go into a store and obviously my spending habits are tracked as I get coupons all the time for similar items or like brands because of it.

Now, do I really give a shit is a store tracks my food purchasing habits? Not really, at least not now. But if they can track what I buy it can also be used to generalize what type of person I am. “Gee Mr. Weakside, as part of your background screening we notice from this purchasing-habits report you seem buy a lot of beer. Are you an alcoholic?” Or, “We have been tracking what you look at on the Internet and we notice you frequent a site called, ‘Wackbag’ that is considered a racial-hate site. How do you explain this?”

Again, I am all for safety but my concern is that the more doors we open to our lives the more stereotyping can be done with the information that is gathered. Considering that stereotype may not be an accurate representation of who we really are could easily keep us from opportunities that would normally be available to us.

I'm not saying this will happen, but we need to keep the possibility in mind if this is the road we decide to go down.
 

abudabit

New Wackbag
Oct 10, 2004
14,802
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#22
If it was the day after 9/11 would your opinions be the same?
The day after 9/11 the only thing in my mind was when do we drop the nuke on Mecca. :action-sm




Too bad. You are flying on private property and are not guaranteed the "right" to fly. If you don't like the invasion of privacy, don't fly.
It's not the airlines or airport doing it, it's the government, so your private property argument blows up in your face. In fact that just makes it a bigger affront.



If it turns out someone isn't a terrorist, burn the record. I didn't blow up the plane when I flew on it, so why do they need a record? This isn't to protect the planes, this is to spy on people. And there is nothing in place to limit it to 'terrorists'. Logging the shit you take on the plane isn't going to prevent 1 plane hijacking.
 

THE FEZ MAN

as a matter of fact i dont have 5$
Aug 23, 2002
41,290
8,970
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#23
Too bad. You are flying on private property and are not guaranteed the "right" to fly. If you don't like the invasion of privacy, don't fly.

but....... the TSA and the FAA dictate the "rules" of how those private companys conduct there "security" so even if someone wanted to run a truly "private" air line, in theory they still have to abide buy those rules, unless of course your the government or own your own plane and air strip

sorry the "your on privet property" line don't wash. and when i fly, which is rarely, i pack as little as possible and anything that i don't want gone thew i keep on me, and don't think i wont eat an sd card.

i also KNOW that ive been investigated, not for my rantings on this board but, but that i have purchased all of my firearms legally, that alone opens the door for an investigation, i know, in this day and age, there is no such thing as privacy, that doesn't mean that i have to like it, accept it, condone it, or endorse it. as a matter of fact, its not only my right, but my duty as a citizen of a democracy to voice my opinion on these matters, and i do, i vote, i talk to my representatives, law enforcement, and even my customers. every time some one pulls the ol' "well your not doing anything wrong, whats your problem?" i just respond with the tried and true "how long before someone else decides what i'm doing is wrong?"

i also know that the stupid shit that i do to try to circumvent big brother is utterly useless, but it makes me feel better and might make it just a tiny bit more aggravating to what ever asshole is trying to track me.
 

HateMyName

Functioning Psychotic
Oct 15, 2004
2,278
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DC suburbs
#24
I don't fly internationally, so I don't have to care about this, right? :action-sm
 

seeinred

White Death
Apr 29, 2007
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#25
ive been saying this shit for years. every were you go every thing you do is recorded, thats why i refuse to get "frequent shopper" cards, deal in cash as much as possible, and have a home made electro magnet in my basement that will pick up an engine block. fuck big brother and fuck any one that wants to roll over and play dead for "them"

those who would bargain liberty for security deserve neither
I'm probably just retarded, but what good does picking up an engine block do to protect you from the government?