Europe On Verge of Collapse

greensnacks

Registered User
Dec 20, 2004
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#1
China limiting exposure to European banks, Italy just got downgraded, Siemens moved to withdraw their cash from French banks and the US SEC is now asking companies to disclose offshore cash. Anyone else following this train wreck?

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/09/20/us-idUSTRE78J0S320110920
http://www.businessweek.com/news/20...day-after-s-p-lowers-italy-s-debt-rating.html
http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/09/20/us-sec-idUSTRE78J0VW20110920

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/short-the-euro-and-make-a-buck-2011-09-20
we know that the Greece debt problem isn’t about Greece at all. It’s about the German and French banks that hold the bonds. And it’s not even about the Grecian bonds but Spanish, Portuguese and Italian bonds, too.

For the moment, however, let’s limit this to Greece.

French and German banks have $90.7 billion in exposure to that country’s sovereign debt. To make matters worse, Italian and Portuguese banks have a combined $11.4 billion in exposure, according to the Bank of International Settlements.

Now, let’s consider Portugal. Weakling Spain has nearly $85 billion in bank and nonbank exposure to its Iberian neighbor. Germany has close to $40 billion in exposure and France nearly $30 billion, according to the BIS.

Finally, Spain’s debt is as manageable as a running of the bulls in an elevator. Here, Germany holds $180 billion; France, $140 billion; and even the United States, close to $50 billion — with $19.5 billion of that on bank balance sheets.
 

lajikal

Registered User
Aug 6, 2009
15,977
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#2
Fuck yeah!
Just read that china is concerned about europe's negative impact on the global market. It's on Forbes.com can't link to it right now.
 
Jun 2, 2005
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Dallas
#3
Grass green, sky blue, Atlantahardcore gay, etc.

It's been coming for awhile, but I honestly think this will be good for us. Europe collapsing will be good for the US economy, especially once they can stop blaming us for their woes just like Obama blames Bush.
 

greensnacks

Registered User
Dec 20, 2004
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#7
It's been coming for awhile, but I honestly think this will be good for us. Europe collapsing will be good for the US economy, especially once they can stop blaming us for their woes just like Obama blames Bush.
You see green grass and blue skies, i see forest fires and hurricanes. Atlantahardore is still gay :action-sm

I agree, it's been coming for a while. The European Central bank has been busier than ours, buying up debt and printing Euros, but it's bad for everyone. US trade exports account for about $220+ billion annually with European countries. Their ongoing problems will lead to deep cuts in their public sector and defaulting will devalue their currency. Not only will their buying power be reduced, more people will be out of work and they won't be able to afford the more expensive US goods. It should strengthen the dollar, but a weak $ helps with our exporting.

More frightening still is the US corporations offshore cash, tucked "safely" away in foreign banks, to escape the US tax man. If their banks begin to fail and there is a run on them, what happens to Google, Apple, Microsoft, GE and all the other fortune 500 companies? Siemens pulled 1/2 billion out of France. China is stopping business with Euro Banks and the SEC is requesting offshore cash holdings?
 

Party Rooster

Unleash The Beast
Apr 27, 2005
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#8
Can't wait to see how bad the market crashes tomorrow. Sub 10k by the end of week?

Siemens pulled 1/2 billion out of France.
They also just announced they were eliminating their nuclear division since Germany pretty much banned it after Fukishima. Say they're going to redouble their investments in green energies. I know of a solar company they can get for a song right now in California...

:trollol:
 
Jun 2, 2005
15,516
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Dallas
#9
More frightening still is the US corporations offshore cash, tucked "safely" away in foreign banks, to escape the US tax man. If their banks begin to fail and there is a run on them, what happens to Google, Apple, Microsoft, GE and all the other fortune 500 companies? Siemens pulled 1/2 billion out of France. China is stopping business with Euro Banks and the SEC is requesting offshore cash holdings?
Caribbean? Asia? Middle East? There's new bastions of off-shore holdings.

Don't discount the growing trend of buying hard, international commodities. When the major Wall Street banks came under fire they had a habit of buying full oil tankers and parking them off the coast and waiting for oil to spike again. You can do the same with gold bricks, art, you name it. I wouldn't be surprised to see a multi-national conglomerate do the same thing with weapons -- or at least weapon delivery systems. I know of an aeronautics company in Dallas right now who's very interested in a stockpile of British Tornadoes that are currently moth-balled in Nigeria. It's a weird wild world in the world of real property.

Edit: Just to be clear, though, that company doesn't want them because they're weapon systems, they want them because they're a cheap source of over-powered Rolls-Royce engines. The application they're going to be used for is my secret. I'm seriously working on trying to make a deal for these people.
 

The Godfather

Spark it up for The Godfather and say!!!!!
May 9, 2007
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#13
Gold is the next bubble
The only bubble going on is in the treasury market.

Unpossible! It's a shiny rock! When the economy collapses everyone will want shiny rocks instead of food....
What are you going to trade of real value? You gonna suck a mean dick for a bag of rice?

In the world there are currently somewhere between 120,000 and 140,000 tonnes of gold ‘above ground’. To visualise this imagine a single solid gold cube with edges of about 19 metres (about three metres short of the length of a tennis court). That's all that has ever been produced.

Divided amongst the population of the world there are about 23 grams per person, about 1.2 cubic centimetres each. This equates to about $250 - $350 worth per person on Earth, depending on the current price.
"During Fiscal Year 2005, it cost approximately 5.7 cents per note to produce 8.6 billion U.S. paper currency notes. "
haha, your fiat currencies are self-destructing.



 

CousinDave

Registered User
Dec 11, 2007
25,297
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#14
remember a couple of years ago when the rappers wanted to be paid in Euros
 

Hate & Discontent

Yo, homie. Is that my briefcase?
Aug 22, 2005
15,777
1,343
628
#16
Gold is the next bubble

:gh:
I wouldn't be surprised.

Believe it or not, it's an extremely philanthropic business model. I'm simply trying to figure out how I can profit from it like a vulture.

No, I'm not joking one bit.
I hope you've looked at ITARS. Not really sure if aircraft fall under it, though.
 

The Godfather

Spark it up for The Godfather and say!!!!!
May 9, 2007
11,256
10
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#17
I wouldn't be surprised.
It's not a bubble. It's an alternative to owning currencies.

There is no ceiling to gold prices, as there is no floor to the devaulation of the dollar.



The real bubble is in the treasury bond market. Goodness, can you imagine the chaos when interest rates rise, and the Fed is forced to dump it's holdings onto the market?

That's when the dow/gold ratio will be at or very close to 1:1

EDIT: below is actually a much more recent version of the chart above..
 

Party Rooster

Unleash The Beast
Apr 27, 2005
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#18
Divided amongst the population of the world there are about 23 grams per person, about 1.2 cubic centimetres each. This equates to about $250 - $350 worth per person on Earth, depending on the current price.
How old is that "stat?" That's more than 3/4 of an ounce. Shouldn't that be almost $1400 dollars?
 

The Godfather

Spark it up for The Godfather and say!!!!!
May 9, 2007
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#19
How old is that "stat?" That's more than 3/4 of an ounce. Shouldn't that be almost $1400 dollars?
Yes, who know how old it is.

But the greater point is.. printing money, is not equal to mining gold.

The ammount of gold on earth is a fixed number
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peak_gold

When your talking about hedging against fiat currency inflation, it's a valid point to bring up.
 

Party Rooster

Unleash The Beast
Apr 27, 2005
40,304
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The Inland Empire State
#20
Yes, who know how old it is.

But the greater point is.. printing money, is not equal to mining gold.

The ammount of gold on earth is a fixed number
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peak_gold

When your talking about hedging against fiat currency inflation, it's a valid point to bring up.
Just saying it makes the rest of the points suspect. And peak gold is different than peak oil. Gold doesn't have the tangible value that oil does. It's only practical value is for making shiny trinkets and fooling wannabe audiophiles into thinking a gold-tipped HDMI cable is worth $50.
 

The Godfather

Spark it up for The Godfather and say!!!!!
May 9, 2007
11,256
10
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#21
Just saying it makes the rest of the points suspect. And peak gold is different than peak oil. Gold doesn't have the tangible value that oil does. It's only practical value is for making shiny trinkets and fooling wannabe audiophiles into thinking a gold-tipped HDMI cable is worth $50.
and it's money. Cotton paper is not money.
 
Jun 2, 2005
15,516
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Dallas
#22
I hope you've looked at ITARS. Not really sure if aircraft fall under it, though.
They're non-working models for the most part and there's no munitions involved, hell, they don't even have the ability to fire them any more, so it doesn't apply.
 
Dec 9, 2004
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Baton Rouge
#23
What are you going to trade of real value? You gonna suck a mean dick for a bag of rice?

If that is the only skill you have to offer in trade.

Before people had money they traded goods for services. 2 sacks of flour for a sword from the blacksmith or whatever.
In a real total economic collapse, the only the thing a hunk of gold is good for is hitting someone over the head with to steal their food.
 

Norm Stansfield

私は亀が好きだ。
Mar 17, 2009
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#24
Gold is the next bubble

:gh:
Gold has gained an easy to calculate value as a trading tool (gold's value is the function of only two variables: volume of trade it is used for and amount in circulation).

The reason why its value went up over the past decade is that it is being used more. Why would it lose any value? Are you expecting trade to disappear, or a better currency than gold to come along?

Just saying it makes the rest of the points suspect. And peak gold is different than peak oil. Gold doesn't have the tangible value that oil does. It's only practical value is for making shiny trinkets and fooling wannabe audiophiles into thinking a gold-tipped HDMI cable is worth $50.
Gold has objective value because it facilitates trade in a way no other resource does. It will keep its value for as long as people on this planet will be interested in trading with each other. If you don't see the value of gold, that's because you don't understand the value of trade.
 

Norm Stansfield

私は亀が好きだ。
Mar 17, 2009
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#25
If that is the only skill you have to offer in trade.

Before people had money they traded goods for services. 2 sacks of flour for a sword from the blacksmith or whatever.
In a real total economic collapse, the only the thing a hunk of gold is good for is hitting someone over the head with to steal their food.
Well yeah, if you define total economic collapse as the end of all trade, then gold as a trading tool becomes worthless in a total economic collapse, by definition.

But that doesn't make it any less silly to predict that trade will end just because a few governments fail to pay their debts. Trade exists because it is in people's best interest to trade, and in their nature to act in their best interest. It will end when people stop existing, not when the government defaults.