Flight - Zemeckis film w/ Denzel, Cheadle, Goodman, etc. - November 2 [Trailer]

Neon

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#1
I don't normally go for this kind of stuff, but I actually really liked the trailer. I dig the topic of air crashes, and something about this trailer gave me an oldschool vibe. It's not like the crash sequence is the payoff to be kept secret, so the things they show don't really matter. Looks like it could be good.

[video=youtube;fJ53JCLG9I0]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJ53JCLG9I0[/video]
 

mikeybot

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#2
Looks interesting, but not go to a theater and see it interesting.
 

fletcher

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I want to make a Chip joke but I have too much self respect for that. Fuck it, "They should have called it Land or sumptin tss tss".

Gimmie Shelter might be my favorite overused song ever. Never get tired of that tune.

Forgot to add: Id see it, Denzel is always worth the watch and Mr. Goodman puts it over the top.
 

Neon

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I think Gimme Shelter worked well here because it didn't oversell the drama. It could have been some emotional tear jerking music with a string section, but then I would get an entirely different vibe from it, and not in a good way.
 

LiddyRules

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#5
I'm just glad Zemeckis has stopped with his penchant for horrible motion capture cartoons. They always look creepy.
 

Falldog

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#6
I'm pretty sure a plane like that would just drop if it were upside down like that last shot.
 

Neon

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I'm pretty sure a plane like that would just drop if it were upside down like that last shot.
I'm sure the crash sequence will be somewhat dramatized, but that's not exactly true. It would still be producing lift (because the speed is still pushing air across the wings) but in reverse (pointing down), so if you compensate with the control surfaces, you could fly it upside down. In theory. That's how F-1 cars are designed, by the way. They have upside down airfoil wings that stick them to the ground with more force the faster the car goes. In theory it could drive upside down, but that would be pretty hard to test.
 

fletcher

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I'm pretty sure a plane like that would just drop if it were upside down like that last shot.
It did. Did you pause the trailer or something?
 

Falldog

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#9
I'm sure the crash sequence will be somewhat dramatized, but that's not exactly true. It would still be producing lift (because the speed is still pushing air across the wings) but in reverse (pointing down), so if you compensate with the control surfaces, you could fly it upside down. In theory. That's how F-1 cars are designed, by the way. They have upside down airfoil wings that stick them to the ground with more force the faster the car goes. In theory it could drive upside down, but that would be pretty hard to test.
Control surfaces effect the amount of lift by disrupting airflow. They can't generate enough down force to actually support the weight of the plane. Spoilers on cars are just wings in reverse, using the same lift principles upside down to create down force.

In the last clip it looked like it was flying straight, just upside down. There wouldn't be any lift at that point and I highly doubt enough momentum or altitude to roll back over.
 

Neon

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Control surfaces effect the amount of lift by disrupting airflow. They can't generate enough down force to actually support the weight of the plane. Spoilers on cars are just wings in reverse, using the same lift principles upside down to create down force.

In the last clip it looked like it was flying straight, just upside down. There wouldn't be any lift at that point and I highly doubt enough momentum or altitude to roll back over.
Definitely hard to judge with the trailer editing and whatnot. As I said, this is probably a moot point, though, because I somehow doubt the crash itself will be very realistic anyway.
 

Norm Stansfield

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I'm pretty sure a plane like that would just drop if it were upside down like that last shot.
Not necessarily. The main reason why a plane stays up is not the shape of the wing (the shape is still important for efficiency, of course, and by efficiency I mean the lift being produced at a given speed, and assuming an ideal angle of attack), but rather "the angle of attack".

The angle of attack is the angle at which the "chord line" of he wing is pointed, compared to the direction of the plane. It can't be zero, it has to be a positive angle. The ideal angle is where the maximum lift is generated.

So a commercial plane, assuming that the components will hold and it won't fall apart (which, in theory, it shouldn't, commercial planes are pretty strong), can be flown upside down, as long as the nose is pointed in the right direction on the vertical plane.

But you'd have to be going faster than right side up to not stall (because, due to the change in shape, upside down flight is obviously less efficient - produces less lift, given the same speed and an ideal angle of attack). So I definitely can't imagine a circumstance in which it would be a better way to land a plane.
 

Neon

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The only reason I could think to intentionally do that in that situation is if you lose the engine or part of the wing on one side and the plane starts rolling on its own, so instead of fighting it, you intentionally force it into a roll so that it is pointing up when it hits the ground. That's insane cowboy movie shit, but this is a movie.
 

Falldog

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Not necessarily. The main reason why a plane stays up is not the shape of the wing (the shape is still important for efficiency, of course, and by efficiency I mean the lift being produced at a given speed, and assuming an ideal angle of attack), but rather "the angle of attack".

The angle of attack is the angle at which the "chord line" of he wing is pointed, compared to the direction of the plane. It can't be zero, it has to be a positive angle. The ideal angle is where the maximum lift is generated.

So a commercial plane, assuming that the components will hold and it won't fall apart (which, in theory, it shouldn't, commercial planes are pretty strong), can be flown upside down, as long as the nose is pointed in the right direction on the vertical plane.

But you'd have to be going faster than right side up to not stall (because, due to the change in shape, upside down flight is obviously less efficient - produces less lift, given the same speed and an ideal angle of attack). So I definitely can't imagine a circumstance in which it would be a better way to land a plane.
That's part of why I was saying I think the plane would just drop if it were flying like the last scene. Not sure the proper inverse angle for a plane like that but I don't think it would negative like that. Nor, as you mentioned, would it be moving nearly as fast as it would need.

I just think discussing the aeronautical elements of the movie is fun.
 

Neon

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I just think discussing the aeronautical elements of the movie is fun.
Definitely. I also think that air crash investigating is some of the most amazing detective work you'll ever see. Those NTSB investigators are amazing. The way they can figure out that a small bolt was responsible for a crash that obliterated a passenger jet is mind boggling. Love those crash investigation shows.
 

Falldog

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Definitely. I also think that air crash investigating is some of the most amazing detective work you'll ever see. Those NTSB investigators are amazing. The way they can figure out that a small bolt was responsible for a crash that obliterated a passenger jet is mind boggling. Love those crash investigation shows.
They actually make me feel safer when I fly knowing the amount of effort and that goes into the investigations.
 

mascan42

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#22
They actually make me feel safer when I fly knowing the amount of effort and that goes into the investigations.
Does it make you feel better that when you die in a flaming crash, hundreds of people will be pouring over the wreckage trying to figure out why? And how disappointed would you be when they decide it was because some wrench monkey in Cleveland forgot to tighten a nut?
 

Neon

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Does it make you feel better that when you die in a flaming crash, hundreds of people will be pouring over the wreckage trying to figure out why? And how disappointed would you be when they decide it was because some wrench monkey in Cleveland forgot to tighten a nut?
Actually, from watching a ton of those shows, it is almost never just one thing that causes a crash. Except in rare cases of unforseen design flaws, there are almost always redundancies in both the technical and human elements. It is usually a sequence of failures that causes a crash (for example, a technical malfunction plus the pilot and copilot's failure to properly identify it).
 

Hate & Discontent

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Actually, from watching a ton of those shows, it is almost never just one thing that causes a crash. Except in rare cases of unforseen design flaws, there are almost always redundancies in both the technical and human elements. It is usually a sequence of failures that causes a crash (for example, a technical malfunction plus the pilot and copilot's failure to properly identify it).
Or outright pilot error, which does happen.

Something else to consider, you'll note that Washington's character tells the co-pilot to trim nose down as they are diving. That could generate the extra speed and lift needed to roll the plane 360 (Do a barrel roll!) to get the plane back to a belly-down orientation of the plane was rolling on it's own due to damage.