Freefall of WWE stock costs McMahons $500M

UCJOE

I have a lot of business with the Chinese
Mar 7, 2009
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#1
No shock WWE has dropped steadily over the past decade in every area, but that is a huge hit

Partial quote
Since McMahon's first run two years ago, WWE's stock price has plunged from $18.64 to $7.86 per share, hurting not just garden variety investors but also the first family of wrestling, which owns 46 million of the wrestling empire's 75 million shares on a fully diluted basis.

That translates to a loss of a half-billion dollars, 10 times more than the $50 million McMahon spent the last time on her unsuccessful candidacy.
 

UCJOE

I have a lot of business with the Chinese
Mar 7, 2009
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#3
Wha happened? I thought they still had very highly rated shows.
Business has dropped steadily since the last decade
The ratings are way down from their peak, but they never made a lot from TV anyway
UFC makes a lot more with less ratings bc WWE is a tough sell
PPV, house shows & merch are all down & they are losing on WWE films & the WWE network looks almost dead in the water

They had their worst quarter in about 15 years recently

That is why Trips seems to be trying to make changes behind the scenes with staff. Vince is delusional & has yes men around him. Hopefully HHH will be better
Investors & fans (those with jobs at least) have lost faith in Vince & Linda is out of it due to politics
 

Guilty Spark

It's freeing and refreshing
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#4
Is it the decision to go back to kid friendly stuff? That seems to be the major difference between now and 10 years ago.
 

Don the Radio Guy

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We're treating press releases by Linda's shitbag opponent as news now?


Is it the decision to go back to kid friendly stuff? That seems to be the major difference between now and 10 years ago.
Did you miss that little financial crash? The kid friendly stuff is to bring in more fans because they need to have more mass appeal due to people having less disposable income.
 

UCJOE

I have a lot of business with the Chinese
Mar 7, 2009
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#6
Is it the decision to go back to kid friendly stuff? That seems to be the major difference between now and 10 years ago.
Weird thing about that is, they have less kids watching now than ever
The show doesn't seem hip enough for kids bc they have other options (games, computers etc) & Teens don't care at all
Where they get kids is at house shows bec families buy tickets, but those are way down as well bec adults don't care about hanging at a house show with families
 

Don the Radio Guy

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The average fan is male and something like 40 years old. This demo is in direct competition with Pawn Stars which airs opposite Raw. It's the Monday Night War all over again, except Vince can't program against a reality show about a pawn shop.

That's why they're doing all this social media shit. To drive the average age down without changing the product rating which would hurt ad dollars.

It's a business. That's what the marks can't seem to understand.
 

Guilty Spark

It's freeing and refreshing
May 4, 2005
6,403
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#8
We're treating press releases by Linda's shitbag opponent as news now?




Did you miss that little financial crash? The kid friendly stuff is to bring in more fans because they need to have more mass appeal due to people having less disposable income.
Yeah I missed it all. I haven't watched wrestling in near 15 years. I thought WWE was a juggernaut (nut) so I'm surprised by this.
 

UCJOE

I have a lot of business with the Chinese
Mar 7, 2009
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#9
Yeah I missed it all. I haven't watched wrestling in near 15 years. I thought WWE was a juggernaut (nut) so I'm surprised by this.
They are not in danger of closing or anything but its been a sharp & steady decline in everything including quality

They are trying to market to people that have no interest, the past 5 years of ratings have shown kids don't care but they still do it. That is why investors and analyst (& fans with jobs & businesses they own) lost faith

I am hoping Hunter rights the Vince wrongs from the last decade
 

Don the Radio Guy

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Yeah I missed it all. I haven't watched wrestling in near 15 years. I thought WWE was a juggernaut (nut) so I'm surprised by this.
I was talking about the global financial meltdown. It's partially to blame for WWE not making as much money as they used to. There are dozens of problems that are causing this, but the marks would have you believe that it's because wrestlers aren't allowed to blade or take chairshots anymore. Don't believe anything you read on the Internet from so called "smart marks" about why WWE isn't doing what they were in 1999. It's just not possible to make that kind of money right now. Having everyone on the roster job to Brock Lesnar isn't going to change that. They just have to keep plugging along until the next up cycle begins.
 

Neckbeard

I'm Team Piggy!
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#11
http://corporate.wwe.com/company/overview.jsp


  • WWE programming reaches approximately 12 million viewers in the U.S. each week.
  • Balanced age distribution with 74% of the audience aged 21 or older.
    • 21 % of our audience is under 18 years old
    • 25 % of our audience is 18-34 years old
    • 23 % of our audience is 35-49 years old
    • 30 % of our audience is 50+ years old
  • Strong female audience
    • 34 % of our viewers are female


The average age of a RAW and Smackdown viewer isn't merely older than 18 or 21. The average age is 32. They program to grade schoolers when WWE Corporate says they are less than 21 percent of the overall viewers and that 74 percent of the viewers are 21 or older. 53 percent of the audience is 35 or older. Why should they have such a safe and infantile product when over 60 percent of the viewership is male and half the viewers are men 35 or older? There are more people in their 50s and 60s that watch WWE than children. The program has traditionally been a strong performer with older people who like the program for content and nostalgia reasons. Why pitch it to children?

I think the angle is "If you get the kids into it, they'll pester their parents to buy the PPVs." That is ass backwards and you can see how it has paid off since 2006. Ratings are down and overall viewership has stagnated for over a decade. House shows and live gates are down. PPV sales and profits are down despite frequent price hikes. The stock is down 60 percent in the past 6 years.

WWE should be marketed to the adults so they'll get excited to order PPVs with their friends and watch them with their friends and families. That is why the attitude era/ruthless aggression era of say, 1996 to 2003 was such a big hit. They had the interest of the people in their 20s, 30s and 40s.

What does a kid want to be more than anything else but a cool grown up? If they get the message that wrestling is a cool, grown up thing they'll want to watch it. Going PG and Family Friendly sends the double whammy of a message that one, wrestling is only for little kids and two, therefore it isn't cool. They are going totally the wrong way with their mentality. Completely backwards.

I don't mean to bring back blading and thumbtacks and unprotected chairshots, but it needs to have more of an "Adult" focus.That doesn't mean gory or sexually explicit. It just needs to be something that a grown man can be excited to watch. It needs to be something where if your friends came over and asked "What are you watching?" and you said "Pro Wrestling" they'd say "Sounds good" and watch it with you.
 

UCJOE

I have a lot of business with the Chinese
Mar 7, 2009
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#12
http://corporate.wwe.com/company/overview.jsp


  • WWE programming reaches approximately 12 million viewers in the U.S. each week.
  • Balanced age distribution with 74% of the audience aged 21 or older.
    • 21 % of our audience is under 18 years old
    • 25 % of our audience is 18-34 years old
    • 23 % of our audience is 35-49 years old
    • 30 % of our audience is 50+ years old
  • Strong female audience
    • 34 % of our viewers are female


The average age of a RAW and Smackdown viewer isn't merely older than 18 or 21. The average age is 32. They program to grade schoolers when WWE Corporate says they are less than 21 percent of the overall viewers and that 74 percent of the viewers are 21 or older. 53 percent of the audience is 35 or older. Why should they have such a safe and infantile product when over 60 percent of the viewership is male and half the viewers are men 35 or older? There are more people in their 50s and 60s that watch WWE than children. The program has traditionally been a strong performer with older people who like the program for content and nostalgia reasons. Why pitch it to children?

I think the angle is "If you get the kids into it, they'll pester their parents to buy the PPVs." That is ass backwards and you can see how it has paid off since 2006. Ratings are down and overall viewership has stagnated for over a decade. House shows and live gates are down. PPV sales and profits are down despite frequent price hikes. The stock is down 60 percent in the past 6 years.

WWE should be marketed to the adults so they'll get excited to order PPVs with their friends and watch them with their friends and families. That is why the attitude era/ruthless aggression era of say, 1996 to 2003 was such a big hit. They had the interest of the people in their 20s, 30s and 40s.

What does a kid want to be more than anything else but a cool grown up? If they get the message that wrestling is a cool, grown up thing they'll want to watch it. Going PG and Family Friendly sends the double whammy of a message that one, wrestling is only for little kids and two, therefore it isn't cool. They are going totally the wrong way with their mentality. Completely backwards.

I don't mean to bring back blading and thumbtacks and unprotected chairshots, but it needs to have more of an "Adult" focus.That doesn't mean gory or sexually explicit. It just needs to be something that a grown man can be excited to watch. It needs to be something where if your friends came over and asked "What are you watching?" and you said "Pro Wrestling" they'd say "Sounds good" and watch it with you.

But of course ...............
Now its easy to say it now looking at the facts. I don't fault Vince for trying the PG route ........ I fault Vince for failing to admit that is hurt the company & cost him & the stock holders hundreds of millions.
The days of Vince being a "Billionaire Genius" are way over

Truth be told, the only reason WWE IS making money now is bec of the fans that are holding on hoping things will change - but those are losing interest at an ALARMING rate
 

VMS

Victim of high standards and low personal skills.
Apr 26, 2006
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#13
I was talking about the global financial meltdown. It's partially to blame for WWE not making as much money as they used to. There are dozens of problems that are causing this, but the marks would have you believe that it's because wrestlers aren't allowed to blade or take chairshots anymore. Don't believe anything you read on the Internet from so called "smart marks" about why WWE isn't doing what they were in 1999. It's just not possible to make that kind of money right now. Having everyone on the roster job to Brock Lesnar isn't going to change that. They just have to keep plugging along until the next up cycle begins.
That's a lot of it, sure. The WWE is entertainment. A lot of entertainment/luxury products have suffered over the last decade and a half. See Vegas' ridiculous decline as an example. On top of that, the WWE is in direct competition with the UFC and MMA. A lot of the UFC's growth has been at the cost of the WWE. They're essentially offering what the WWE did, but it's "real" (using the quotation marks out of respect for what pro wrestlers do, not because I think the UFC is dirty or fixed, at least any more than any other professional sport).
 

UCJOE

I have a lot of business with the Chinese
Mar 7, 2009
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#14
That's a lot of it, sure. The WWE is entertainment. A lot of entertainment/luxury products have suffered over the last decade and a half. See Vegas' ridiculous decline as an example. On top of that, the WWE is in direct competition with the UFC and MMA. A lot of the UFC's growth has been at the cost of the WWE. They're essentially offering what the WWE did, but it's "real" (using the quotation marks out of respect for what pro wrestlers do, not because I think the UFC is dirty or fixed, at least any more than any other professional sport).
Good points but a lot of the UFC growth was bec WWE went PG
They since left UFC/MMA & did not come back to WWE bec they see the product as infantile
Brock brought a lot of people to UFC and they left either with him or right before him
The numbers back that up
 

UCJOE

I have a lot of business with the Chinese
Mar 7, 2009
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#15
Look at what brought WWE interest for short spurts the last few years ..........

Nexus
Punk quitting
Brock

The fucked all three up & all three spikes showed fans are waiting & hoping
Those were not NEW fans or 8-14 yr olds but adults that are hoping to have something that isn't insulting to watch
They were also the 3 most real angles they had and they blew it & viewers/fans left saying "WWE sucks"
 

Don the Radio Guy

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#16
I love people who have no idea how a business is run commenting on what is causing the slump of a billion dollar company.

Things would be WORSE if WWE weren't PG rated right now. That's what you don't understand. Having women mud wrestling and guys taking 20 chairshots in a match wouldn't save the company. What will work is slowly building believable characters that can work matches. They need to build young guys up. It doesn't happen overnight. It took CM Punk 5 years to get over. Daniel Bryan took about 2 years, but a lot of his recent success is tied to Punk. Sheamus has been getting pushed to hell, and is just now taking off. Brock Lesnar is NOT the answer. He's a short term piece of a much larger puzzle. Ditto for The Rock.

All entertainment trends are cyclical. WWE is at the bottom of the cycle, and still doing a LOT better than they were in 1993-1996.

UFC is definitely competition, but so is Pawn Stars. I'm telling you, Pawn Stars is the new Nitro. Same demo, and it's in direct competition on Monday nights.Of course ratings don't mean what they once did. WWE makes money in so many places these days, it's mind blowing.

Someone quote this please, so the mark sees it. He put me on ignore for pointing out shit like this. Apparently anything that contradicts what the almighty "Internet Wrestling Community" says hurts his wittwe feewings.
 

transit grinder

Baglin' with the Sex
Apr 16, 2008
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#17
I love people who have no idea how a business is run commenting on what is causing the slump of a billion dollar company.

Things would be WORSE if WWE weren't PG rated right now. That's what you don't understand. Having women mud wrestling and guys taking 20 chairshots in a match wouldn't save the company. What will work is slowly building believable characters that can work matches. They need to build young guys up. It doesn't happen overnight. It took CM Punk 5 years to get over. Daniel Bryan took about 2 years, but a lot of his recent success is tied to Punk. Sheamus has been getting pushed to hell, and is just now taking off. Brock Lesnar is NOT the answer. He's a short term piece of a much larger puzzle. Ditto for The Rock.

All entertainment trends are cyclical. WWE is at the bottom of the cycle, and still doing a LOT better than they were in 1993-1996.

UFC is definitely competition, but so is Pawn Stars. I'm telling you, Pawn Stars is the new Nitro. Same demo, and it's in direct competition on Monday nights.Of course ratings don't mean what they once did. WWE makes money in so many places these days, it's mind blowing.
-
 

UCJOE

I have a lot of business with the Chinese
Mar 7, 2009
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#19
I love unemployed people who couldn't cut it in a small town as third banana on a ham radio station, telling someone who runs a very successful 6+ figure a year business about business
Sometimes the quote feature makes my day

Which one are you Donnie?




If you weren't such a troll, you would have noticed they are not a billion dollar company anymore & a lot of stock analyst, media reporters & basically anybody with common sense have the same opinion.

The numbers tell the story
 

Don the Radio Guy

G-Bb-A-D
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#20
I'm the one fucking your mother, anonymous message board mark.

Why don't you actually address the points I made instead of making up personal insults?
 

Neckbeard

I'm Team Piggy!
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#21
If they want PG era they need to do it the way it succeeded in the past. Guys like Macho Man, Ultimate Warrior, Jake The Snake, Undertaker, Legion of Doom, Hogan and big cartoony characters like that. Little kids will never mark for a guy who is relatively normal like a Cody Rhodes, Wade Barrett etc.

They have the worst of the PG stuff going on with none of the fun of it.
 

UCJOE

I have a lot of business with the Chinese
Mar 7, 2009
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838
293
NJ
#22
If they want PG era they need to do it the way it succeeded in the past. Guys like Macho Man, Ultimate Warrior, Jake The Snake, Undertaker, Legion of Doom, Hogan and big cartoony characters like that. Little kids will never mark for a guy who is relatively normal like a Cody Rhodes, Wade Barrett etc.

They have the worst of the PG stuff going on with none of the fun of it.
Not sure if that would work either but valid point
You cannot be everything to everyone in business - that is BIZ 101. You need to focus.
What some don't get is, big entertainment companies has different divisions for different markets. WWE & Vince try to do everything in ONE product & that is where the fault is. It isn't like they have a kiddy division & adult division. They try & do EVERYTHING in one-product & that weakens the product.
They are chasing away fans to try & get others & it failed because that age isn't following
Merch which used to be a lot stronger is down too
 

Don the Radio Guy

G-Bb-A-D
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#23
If they want PG era they need to do it the way it succeeded in the past. Guys like Macho Man, Ultimate Warrior, Jake The Snake, Undertaker, Legion of Doom, Hogan and big cartoony characters like that. Little kids will never mark for a guy who is relatively normal like a Cody Rhodes, Wade Barrett etc.

They have the worst of the PG stuff going on with none of the fun of it.
They want teens and guys in their early 20s. It will take a long time to build that up, and honestly Johnny Ace has screwed a lot up. They had to start from scratch about a year ago. It's just now starting to shape up. That's what anonymous message board marks don't understand. It doesn't happen overnight. It takes YEARS to build a brand in a character.

Despite what the child thinks, I know audience patterns. In radio, the rule of thumb is that you need 1000 days to build an audience for a new format or show. That's more than three years at 5 days a week. And unlike what the child says, I learned this working at a respected station that has been the number one or two station in the market (and always the highest billing) for 25+ years. I know what the fuck I'm talking about. These rules don't get magically suspended because the broadcast product is professional wrestling.
 
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#24
I think the problems WWE has had stem from going too far in one direction. They went so far to the kid-friendly side of the spectrum that some people lost interest. However, now they seem to be playing more to the middle ground between kid-friendly and mature content. Also, I think the attempt to get kids into the product is paying off in many ways since kids tend to buy more of the merchandise than adults (although I know there are plenty of adults who have a collection of WWE action figures that probably make Sam's collection look like he's a novice--just look for the guys in their mid-to-late 20s submitting Touts each week on Raw). John Cena merchandise has been their #1 seller for years until Punk came along and took that over recently. He's still #2 if he hasn't taken the #1 spot back yet, which means that their top 2 sellers are a guy who appeals to kids and a guy who appeals to adults and late-teens and I think Punk's success is a big part of the reason for the blending of the 2 philosophies (along with HHH's influence backstage). Kids do pester their parents to buy PPVs (I've experience this recently with my girlfriend's nephew). Adults can usually tell if a PPV is going to suck, but kids think every PPV is going to be amazing. Mediocre PPV buy-rates would be awful if it weren't for kids begging their parents to get them. If they continue on their current path I think attendance, PPV buys, and merchandise will all increase even if it's a gradual improvement.
 

topher520

learnings for queers
Jul 5, 2006
1,862
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#25
Is Pawn Stars the Fake Pawn show with the Jew Dad, the Bitch, and the Power hungry Son? or the other one with the Fat Chumblee guy?

I think the WWE Sucks now because Vince or whoever stopped taking chances with the Wrestlers and the storylines. I remember a time when A fued started and you waited Months before the two guys actually finished it. Every week you would have a run in or an interview from both guys that kept you sucked in wanting more and waiting until the next show. Now its the same 2 guys wrestling each other twice a week in tag matches and such until the month ending PPV and then its Done.

Take Jericho vs. Ziggler and how great that fued could be if drawn out, but then think of what is actually going to happen...Both will compete in Mixed tag matches for the next 3 weeks or so ...screwing each other over until the big match...which nobody cares about now because we've already seen the match like 20 times. Then whoever wins will hit the reset button and "Insert name here" will be the next months fued. Why buy the PPV if I just watched the same match for a month for Free?