Golden Compass

LiddyRules

I'm Gonna Be The Bestest Pilot In The Whole Galaxy
Jun 1, 2005
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#2
The Golden Compass is pointing North for Oscar!
 

Mindslayer

Best in the Biz
May 4, 2006
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#4
I read the His Dark Materials trilogy a year or two ago, and while I enjoyed the books I did find the whole anti-religion angle to be a bit much. Not that Im religious by any means; I just thought that the author got a little preachy at times ( no pun intended ).
 

weakside

He was stupid. I was lucky. I will visit him soon.
Dec 9, 2004
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#5
Looks great for kids and larpers.
 

silentbob8201

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Jun 29, 2005
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I read the His Dark Materials trilogy a year or two ago, and while I enjoyed the books I did find the whole anti-religion angle to be a bit much. Not that Im religious by any means; I just thought that the author got a little preachy at times ( no pun intended ).
they left that bit of the story in the books, to pander to the midwest.
 
Jan 9, 2006
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#7
they left that bit of the story in the books, to pander to the midwest.
Yeah, but they're still pissed because they think the movies are a "stealth campaign" to make children interested in the books.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,305487,00.html

from the article:

"These books denigrate Christianity, thrash the Catholic Church and sell the virtues of atheism," said Bill Donohue, president and CEO of the Catholic League.

The film itself is unlikely to offend — because New Line Cinema has tried to keep religion out of it, focusing on the story of a little girl named Lyra and her journey within a strange, parallel universe.

"'The Golden Compass' is an entertaining fantasy about love, courage, responsibility and freedom," a New Line spokesman said. "We look forward to the Dec. 7 opening."

"They’re intentionally watering down the most offensive element,” Donohue said. “I'm not really concerned about the movie, [which] looks fairly innocuous. The movie is made for the books. ... It's a deceitful, stealth campaign. Pullman is hoping his books will fly off the shelves at Christmastime."
 

silentbob8201

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Jun 29, 2005
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#8
Yeah, but they're still pissed because they think the movies are a "stealth campaign" to make children interested in the books.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,305487,00.html

from the article:

"These books denigrate Christianity, thrash the Catholic Church and sell the virtues of atheism," said Bill Donohue, president and CEO of the Catholic League.

The film itself is unlikely to offend — because New Line Cinema has tried to keep religion out of it, focusing on the story of a little girl named Lyra and her journey within a strange, parallel universe.

"'The Golden Compass' is an entertaining fantasy about love, courage, responsibility and freedom," a New Line spokesman said. "We look forward to the Dec. 7 opening."

"They’re intentionally watering down the most offensive element,” Donohue said. “I'm not really concerned about the movie, [which] looks fairly innocuous. The movie is made for the books. ... It's a deceitful, stealth campaign. Pullman is hoping his books will fly off the shelves at Christmastime."
Yeah, it would be a shame for people to base their belief structure on something as simple as a book. wait a minute
 

Fr. Dougal

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Feb 17, 2004
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http://www.snopes.com/politics/religion/compass.asp

Claim:: The 2007 film The Golden Compass is based on a series of books with anti-religious themes.

Status: True.

Examples:
Collected via e-mail, October 2007

There will be a new Children's movie out in December called THE GOLDEN COMPASS. It is written by Phillip Pullman, a proud athiest who belongs to secular humanist societies. He hates C. S. Lewis's Chronical's of Narnia and has written a trilogy to show the other side. The movie has been dumbed down to fool kids and their parents in the hope that they will buy his trilogy where in the end the children kill God and everyone can do as they please. Nicole Kidman stars in the movie so it will probably be advertised a lot. This is just a friendly warning that you sure won't hear on the regular TV.


Collected via e-mail, October 2007

I don't just generally dismiss a movie or book just because someone 'says' it's meant to be something else...but this is worth knowing if you plan to see it (or plan to take your kids).

"Hi! I just wanted to inform you what I just learned about a movie that is coming out December 7, during the Christmas season, which is entitled THE GOLDEN COMPASS. It stars Nicole Kidman and it is directed toward children. What is disturbing to me is that this movie is based on the first of a trilogy of books for children called HIS DARK MATERIALS written by Philip Pullman of England.

He's an atheist and his objective is to bash Christianity and promote atheism. I heard that he has made remarks that he wants to kill God in the minds of children, and that's what his books are all about. He despises C.S. Lewis and Narnia, etc. An article written about him said "this is the most dangerous author in Britain" and that Pullman would be the writer "the atheists would be praying for, if atheists prayed." Pullman said he doesn't think it is possible that there is a God and he has great difficulty understanding the words "spiritual" and "spirituality." What I thought was important to communicate is what part of the agenda is for making this picture. This movie is a watered down version of the first book, which is the least offensive of the three books. The second book of the trilogy is THE SUBTLE KNIFE and the third book is THE AMBER SPYGLASS. Each book gets worse and worse regarding Pullman's hatred of God. In the trilogy, a young girl becomes enmeshed in an epic struggle against a nefarious Church known as the Magisterium. Another character, an ex-nun, describes Christianity as "a very powerful and convincing mistake." As I understand it, in the last book, a boy and girl are depicted representing Adam and Eve and they kill God, who at times is called YAHWEH (which is definitely not Allah). Since the movie would seem mild if you viewed it, that's been done on purpose.

They are hoping that unsuspecting parents will take their children to See the movie, that they will enjoy the movie and then the children will want the books for Christmas. That's the hook. Pullman says he wants the children to read the books and decide against God and the kingdom of heaven.

If you decide that you do not want to support something like this, I suggest that you boycott the movie and the books. I googled a synopsis of THE GOLDEN COMPASS. As I skimmed it, I couldn't believe that in a children's book part of the story is about castration and female circumcision.
Origins: The Golden Compass, a fantasy film starring Nicole Kidman that is scheduled to be released into theaters on 7 December 2007, has been drawing fire from concerned Christians. The film is based on Northern Lights (released in the U.S. as The Golden Compass), the first offering in Philip Pullman's His Dark Materials trilogy of children's books, a series that follows the adventures of a streetwise girl who travels
through multiple worlds populated by witches, armor-plated bears, and sinister ecclesiastical assassins to defeat the oppressive forces of a senile God.

Books of the trilogy have sold more than 15 million copies around the world, with Northern Lights winning the Carnegie Medal for Children's Literature in 1995 and in 2007 being awarded the 'Carnegie of Carnegies' for the best children's book of the past 70 years. The Amber Spyglass, the final book of the series, won The Whitbread Prize in 2001, making it the first children's book to do so.

The series' author, Philip Pullman, is an avowed atheist who has averred that "I don't profess any religion; I don't think it's possible that there is a God; I have the greatest difficulty in understanding what is meant by the words 'spiritual' or 'spirituality.'" Critics of Pullman's books point to the strong anti-religion and anti-God themes they incorporate, and although literary works are subject to a variety of interpretations, Pullman left little doubt about his intentions when he said in a 2003 interview with The Sydney Morning Herald that "My books are about killing God." (Conservative British columnist Peter Hitchens labeled Pullman "The Most Dangerous Author in Britain" and described him as the writer "the atheists would have been praying for, if atheists prayed.")

Bill Donohue, president of The Catholic League, has condemned The Golden Compass as a "pernicious" effort to indoctrinate children into anti-Christian beliefs and has produced a 23-page pamphlet titled The Golden Compass: Unmasked in which he maintains that Pullman "sells atheism for kids." Donohoe told interviewer John Gibson on 9 October 2007 why he believes Christians should stay away from the film:

Look, the movie is based on the least offensive of the three books. And they have dumbed down the worst elements in the movie because they don't want to make Christians angry and they want to make money. Our concern is this, unsuspecting Christian parents may want to take their kid to the movie, it opens up December 7th and say, this wasn't troubling, then we'll buy the books. So the movie is the bait for the books which are profoundly anti-Catholic and at the same time selling atheism.

Other reviewers, however, have described Pullman's works as being more generally anti-religion rather than specifically anti-Christian or anti-Catholic:

In "His Dark Materials," Pullman's criticisms of organized religion come across as anti-authoritarian and anti-ascetic rather than anti-doctrinal. (Jesus isn't mentioned in any of the books, although Pullman has hinted that He might figure in a forthcoming sequel, "The Book of Dust.") His fundamental objection is to ideological tyranny and the rejection of this world in favor of an idealized afterlife, regardless of creed. As one of the novel's pagan characters puts it, "Every church is the same: control, destroy, obliterate every good feeling."

Last updated: 23 October 2007
 

Xyn

3 letters, 0 meaning
Mar 3, 2005
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#11
:clap::clap::clap::clap:

Lock the thread.
X2

But while it's still open:

"These books denigrate Christianity, thrash the Catholic Church and sell the virtues of atheism," said Bill Donohue, president and CEO of the Catholic League.
What the fuck's wrong with selling the virtues of atheism, you hypocritical fuck face? I'm with Pen Jillette now, fuck O&A being cool with this piece of shit.

What if you sell the virtues of Christianity or Catholicism? Is there a problem there? How about "thrashing" atheists? Go shit in your moms gaping cunt you baby ****ing douche.

I could almost understand if he was going to be anal about defending his church, but then he goes and shits on other peoples beliefs. This guy is useless. :arrrh:

...

I think that struck a Jimmy nerve in me.
 
Mar 15, 2004
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#13
X2

But while it's still open:



What the fuck's wrong with selling the virtues of atheism, you hypocritical fuck face? I'm with Pen Jillette now, fuck O&A being cool with this piece of shit.

What if you sell the virtues of Christianity or Catholicism? Is there a problem there? How about "thrashing" atheists? Go shit in your moms gaping cunt you baby ****ing douche.

I could almost understand if he was going to be anal about defending his church, but then he goes and shits on other peoples beliefs. This guy is useless. :arrrh:

...

I think that struck a Jimmy nerve in me.
Totally agree with 100% of your post.

Fucking O&A totally folded with this cum guzzler for whatever reason. He is NOT a friend of anyone we like and anyone the show is associated with. He is the enemy and shouldn't be joked and paled around with.

I may go buy a ticket and never go into the movie just to support it's Anti Religious background. Love it.
 

LiddyRules

I'm Gonna Be The Bestest Pilot In The Whole Galaxy
Jun 1, 2005
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#14
I honestly think these people are as crazy as the Sudanese who jailed the British teacher except, luckily, they don't have the law on their side.

We might be more evolved, we might choose e-mail instead of rocks to voice our displeasure, but deep down we're still the same crazy fucks.
 

silentbob8201

Registered User
Jun 29, 2005
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#15
I just love how this asshat fucking goes against movies with out seeing them first. i mean come on Dogma? now this? fuck if there is anything the Catholic League should go against its those fucking awful Left Behind movies.
 

Vyce

Light-skinned, with no Negro dialect.
Feb 11, 2006
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#16
I honestly think these people are as crazy as the Sudanese who jailed the British teacher except, luckily, they don't have the law on their side.

We might be more evolved, we might choose e-mail instead of rocks to voice our displeasure, but deep down we're still the same crazy fucks.
But they're not.

Because people like Donahue will protest and maybe even, if he's particularly motivated, stage a boycott. The one thing he won't do, is call for Pullman's EXECUTION, which is what the fucking savages in the Sudan were doing with regards to the woman, illustrated here.

I know it's cute these days to lump in Christians and Catholics and Mormons and every other Judeo-christian themed religion alongside Muslims in the "religious zealotry" category, but honestly, sometimes the fucking equivalency is just ridiculous bullshit. Pretty much no religion on the planet is as oppressive, repressive, and violent as the extreme factions of Islam.

But I digress from the main point of the thread. Though not particularly devout (I haven't seen the inside of a church, outside of the occasional wedding or funeral, in at least a decade), I would consider myself a Christian, and it's not as if I've been ignorant about these books and Pullman's intention with them. But I'll be expressing my displeasure with them in a civilized manner, i.e. I just won't pay to see the film. You don't like it, just don't spend your money on it.
 

Vyce

Light-skinned, with no Negro dialect.
Feb 11, 2006
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#17
I just love how this asshat fucking goes against movies with out seeing them first. i mean come on Dogma? now this? fuck if there is anything the Catholic League should go against its those fucking awful Left Behind movies.
I don't know if the Catholic League specifically has gone after them, but the Left Behind series (the books at least) have been criticized in the past for an anti-Catholic bias / theme to the novels.

Xyn said:
What the fuck's wrong with selling the virtues of atheism, you hypocritical fuck face?
Damon Linker of the New Republic wrote a good article on "the new atheism". My problem with it: it is, as Linker notes, in opposition to the supposed excesses and limitations of religion, yet is in and of itself, a "brutally intolerant, proselytizing faith, out to rack up conversions."
 

LiddyRules

I'm Gonna Be The Bestest Pilot In The Whole Galaxy
Jun 1, 2005
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#18
My point was that it is just because our cultures took divergent paths (us more civilized, them just staying in the same place) that is where the difference lies. Our ways of registering dissent are more cultured, they are still completely barbaric. But that's because of how our mutual societies are.
 

Vyce

Light-skinned, with no Negro dialect.
Feb 11, 2006
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#19
You seemed to imply though, and I've seen this sort of position held before, that if Christians COULD get away with some of the shit Muslims do, they would.

And I just don't buy that. Maybe the Fred Phelps crowd, but a majority of people in this country associate themselves with Christianity in one form or another, and frankly, most of them really just aren't all THAT devout or hardcore religious about a lot of subjects, except those regarding sex (such as homosexuality & gay marriage).
 

Xyn

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Mar 3, 2005
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#20
Damon Linker of the New Republic wrote a good article on "the new atheism". My problem with it: it is, as Linker notes, in opposition to the supposed excesses and limitations of religion, yet is in and of itself, a "brutally intolerant, proselytizing faith, out to rack up conversions."
"Brutally intolerant." "Proselytizing" "Out to rack up conversions." If Christians do it, why can't atheists? I think it's a bad thing to do, but the head of the Catholic league is hardly in a place to comment.

I can't comment on "the new atheism," I'll read up on it later, but let me remind you that atheists are not a cohesive group like Christians. Even as divided as all of the denominations of Christianity are, there is still more unity there. Atheists have only one guaranteed belief in common. We don't believe there is a god or gods. If some group of atheists wants to band together and act like the rest of the retarded religions on this planet, it has nearly nothing to do with that one simple belief.

It's all group think. Christianity, Islam, Hunduism, Buddhism, Communism, Statism, etc. Failing think for ones self is what's truely dangerous, not some crazy notion that there's a magic man in the sky. Faith just makes a superior vehicle for group thinking, thus the success of organised religion. So what's wrong with promoting atheism? Not atheism with some additional agenda, just the view that we don't have God to fall back on when we are searching for the right thing to do. Most atheists tend to be pretty strong individualists, thinking for themselves about why things are right or wrong and I think that's healthy.

So what's wrong with promoting the virtues of atheism? I don't like Christianity, but you don't see me bitching about anyone trying to promote it's virtues. People should be able to preach their views, Christian, atheist, whatever. I'd be against some atheist trying to shut up a Catholic.

Christians in this country aren't that different than agnostics anyways. Like you say, most Christians aren't that devout.
 
Mar 15, 2004
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#21
All religions are the same. They try to impose their beliefs on as many other people as possible.

Here, it's with elected officials, boycotts and talking heads.

Over there, it's with guns, knives and bombs.

Both use whatever is more effective and what they have at their disposal.

But the rabid message that's programmed into people is exactly the same, and given enough motivation I would expect the exact same behavior from any religious group.

Any day.
 

LilJimmyRbinson

Best muppet ever
Nov 19, 2004
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#22
This is so ridiculous. I don't know the story, but based on what I saw on THE SITUATION ROOM!!!!! the story takes place in an alternate universe. How more fantasy driven can you get?
 

Vyce

Light-skinned, with no Negro dialect.
Feb 11, 2006
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#23
"Brutally intolerant." "Proselytizing" "Out to rack up conversions." If Christians do it, why can't atheists? I think it's a bad thing to do, but the head of the Catholic league is hardly in a place to comment.
That wasn’t the Catholic league using those words, it was from the op-ed article I posted.

I can't comment on "the new atheism," I'll read up on it later, but let me remind you that atheists are not a cohesive group like Christians. Even as divided as all of the denominations of Christianity are, there is still more unity there. Atheists have only one guaranteed belief in common. We don't believe there is a god or gods. If some group of atheists wants to band together and act like the rest of the retarded religions on this planet, it has nearly nothing to do with that one simple belief.

It's all group think. Christianity, Islam, Hunduism, Buddhism, Communism, Statism, etc. Failing think for ones self is what's truely dangerous, not some crazy notion that there's a magic man in the sky. Faith just makes a superior vehicle for group thinking, thus the success of organised religion. So what's wrong with promoting atheism? Not atheism with some additional agenda, just the view that we don't have God to fall back on when we are searching for the right thing to do. Most atheists tend to be pretty strong individualists, thinking for themselves about why things are right or wrong and I think that's healthy.
The flaw, and if I may be a bit bold, the arrogance inherent in that position is that you are assuming that individuals of any religious belief system are NOT thinking for themselves when they choose to accept their particular faith or follow it. That there are not plenty of individualists among the “faithful.” This is not the case. In some cultures, this is true (I would argue that it’s more prevalent in Islamic cultures, but that’s a debate for another day), but certainly not always, and I wouldn’t say that it is the case in this nation or in most of the Western world. There are plenty of individuals – key word – who have thought long and hard about the subject of religion, and decided what to belief, and what is “right or wrong”. Believing in a particular religion does not make one a brainless zombie to that faith. Look at our nation. Most would consider our country a “Christian nation”, and a majority of Americans do believe in some form of superior being. Yet most Americans aren’t exactly the holy roller types.

I think there needs to be a deeper appreciation for how both sides really are and feel.

So what's wrong with promoting the virtues of atheism? I don't like Christianity, but you don't see me bitching about anyone trying to promote it's virtues. People should be able to preach their views, Christian, atheist, whatever. I'd be against some atheist trying to shut up a Catholic.
Nothing. However, I think that it should be considered that there are those out there who are atheists and are intolerant of those who are religious (in particular, the judeo-christian faiths, perhaps in part because those two groups are the oldest of enemies and thus there’s more of a familiarity; it’s not as if you see Dawkins or Hitchens writing long scribes about how foolish shintoism is), and are proselytizing their message in their own way. That’s rather the whole point behind this discussion of Pullman’s books, isn’t it? Because he’s an atheist, and he’s specifically stated that he wants his books to “kill God” or otherwise preach the “gospel” of atheism. Which is fine, because he has the right to do that as well as any religious faith has of preaching its message. But it is somewhat hypocritical, I think you would agree, for an atheist like Pullman to rail against religion as intolerant and oppressive, while at the same time doing much of the same thing to people of religious faith. At that point, it just becomes a bitter ideological war of attrition (as I think Linker noted).

Personally, I just see it all as a built-in flaw of the human psychological condition. We’re hardwired, it seems, to be of the mindset that what we believe is the ONLY way other people should believe, and thus can be just unholy (no pun intended) cunts to anyone who thinks differently. We see this most commonly in subjects like politics and religion because those MEAN more to us than anything else.

I get what you are saying, though. The Catholic League complaining about this film is rather comical, given their track record. I’m of the opinion, though, that the best course of action, if the movie’s subject matter offends you, is to just DON’T go see it.
 

WhiskeyWhispers

I Want To Kill You All
Mar 11, 2007
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#24
How about the notion that this is just a kiddie flick that's getting shitty reviews?

As far as I'm concerned atheists and religious fanatics deserve each other. How is calling a religious person crazy/wrong for believing in God any different from them calling you crazy/wrong for not believing? Neither side has to take the bait the other lays out for them, but they do, because they are both agenda-driven assholes.

The only people on this planet who have a clue are the ones who admit they don't, no one knows what happens after death and no one will until they in fact die.

The only thing that offends me in life are people that are constantly offended.
 

Turtle

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Jun 8, 2005
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#25
My kids have been talking about this for what seems like months