Discussion in 'Off Topic Discussion' started by BIV, Sep 19, 2012.
I see what you did there.
Archaeology, evolutionary biology and astronomy have been taking a huge collective fuckin' dump on organized religion for the past 100 years or so. I could understand people buying into this shit in 1012 but nowadays it is untenable and indefensible. Lets as a species cop to these religions being hilariously historically inaccurate, wildly immoral and more ignorant and wrong about science than a modern day child and move on. What the fuck? People have all this evidence around them, trillions of pieces of it easily accessible at libraries and in textbook form and on the internet and the earth being 6000 years old is what a significant portion of the most advanced and powerful nations on Earth go with? Fuckin' really?
So what would that make Jesus then? Like an amoeba? He's pre-Cambrian so he isn't even a bug or even something like a trilobite yet on this time scale.
Wait, I'm confused. I thought jesus wasn't real?
oh literal bible guy.
So, I showed a documentary "The Cultured Ape" in class recently and half the class admitted to being uncomfortable with the film. "Why?" I asked. Because they believe in divine creation and we can learn nothing from studying apes. When I asked them what they know about the theory of evolution, they said "nothing, really." Oh...okay. These are university honors students we're talking about here. I gave a quick rundown just so they'd know what they were refuting. It seemed to piss them off.
Things have been awkward since then.
:arrrh: --> :drunk:-->:killme:
You have to keep in mind that in America about 50 percent of America will flat out state that their cosmology and explanation for the existence of mankind comes out of a fairy tale book.
About 45 percent are wackadoo, Universe is 6,000 years old, Jehovah/God/Allah made humanity as a science fair project because he was lonely and bored. The other 40 percent think evolution happened, but only because The Almighty was taking his sweet time in the laboratory. Only 10 or 15 percent or so will accept evolutionary theory without divine participation.
What's more interesting is that's equal to the percentage of scientists who also believe in God-guided evolution.
I have absolutely no problem with that...
God is the creator, and evolution is His tool of creation.
Something like that is absolutely harmless. As long as they don't take it a step further...
God is the creator, and evolution is His tool of creation, and He wants us to uncreate fags.
I've also met a category of people who fall between two of those in that chart - believers in old-Earth creationism (i.e God created everything, but the 7 biblical days of creation are not necessarily 7 days as we see them). It's not the same as "God-guided evolution" because these people don't believe in evolution. I guess God decided to put some dinosaurs on Earth at some point, and then got sick of them and tried something else. I think if you pose that premise to young-Earth creationists, several might agree with it, or at least agree that it is possible. Not all young-Earth creationists are also biblical literalists, so the thought that maybe something in the bible is not to be taken at face value is not inherently offensive to them.
For example, there is a battle in the book of Joshua where God makes the sun stand still in the sky for a long time. If you pose this scenario to a young-Earth creationist, he would probably agree that God probably stopped THE EARTH from rotating, thus making the sun appear to stand in the sky, even though the bible itself says "the sun stood still." In Judaism, there are two interpretations of this verse - 1. That the celestial objects stopped spinning for x amount of time, and 2. That it was a "local" miracle - meaning that nothing actually happened, but to the people in that particular location, it appeared as though the sun stood still. But both theories function within the heliocentric model, and what we know about the universe.
doesnt he have a wife now too?
I agree 100%. The people who ignore science make all religious people look like morons... especially when you can explain the relationship between religion and science so easily... "our understanding of how God created the world has increased over time, just as He intended it to", or something along those lines.
I actually defend religion from a philosophical point of view... however the assholes who try to legislate against the rights of others and the morons believe the world was created ~4,539,994,000 years later than it probably was make it really hard to defend them.
I do. The foundation of science is the idea that claims about reality must be based on empirical evidence.
If you don't have that, you don't have science. And I like science.
I find issue with that, because even in science they have to make some basic assumptions about reality.
Also, science and philosophy are not mutually exclusive. A scientist can work with empirical evidence while still believing that everything was created by God... and as long as they're smart enough to understand that the belief in God is only supported by faith and not fact, it shouldn't be an issue.
Of course not. Science is built on philosophy. Ancient Greek philosophy. Aristotle's, mainly.
But that philosophy states that we are born tabula rasa and our knowledge comes from sensory evidence. That philosophy is in contradiction with all forms of Platonism, including Christian philosophy.
Can someone be a scientist and a Christian at the same time? Sure, but only as long as he does his job blindly, and doesn't realize that the notion that science is valid contradicts fundamental Christian beliefs.
No, that was just something written on a piece of parchment by the same people at the same time as the rest of the bible. But that piece of writing isn't true.
But the rest of the writing is true.
Why don't they just say that 6,000 years ago god created a 4.5 billion year old planet, now what?
So according to that chart I can plan on possibly turning gray, developing over sized eyes, long fingers and becoming telepathic sometime before next Tuesday?
It's hard to crack brainwashing. And I'd be willing to bet at least half of those would say they don't believe in God-guided if they were honest with themselves. But like I said, they have been indoctrinated. It's hard to handle when everything you know comes in conflict with everything you "know."
Yup. And I want to hear details when I see you next Tuesday.
You do realize that evolution isn't set out to disprove god, right?
i once met a girl who said a christian scientist proved that the bible was 100% factual. i'd link the article had i continued to talk to her after she said that.
You a religious man, Mr. Grady?