Internet wins: SOPA and PIPA both shelved

jsc315

AnalCunt
Dec 8, 2004
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#1
Looks like we won for now at least.

Just hours after Senator Harry Reid (D-NV) announced he was delaying a vote on the PROTECT IP Act, Rep. Lamar Smith (R-TX), the sponsor of the Stop Online Piracy Act, followed suit and announced he would be delaying consideration of the companion legislation.

“I have heard from the critics and I take seriously their concerns regarding proposed legislation to address the problem of online piracy," Smith said. "It is clear that we need to revisit the approach on how best to address the problem of foreign thieves that steal and sell American inventions and products."

"The Committee will continue work with both copyright owners and Internet companies to develop proposals that combat online piracy and protect America’s intellectual property," Smith continued. "We welcome input from all organizations and individuals who have an honest difference of opinion about how best to address this widespread problem." (He may want to check out our thoughts on the matter.)

Even former Senator Chris Dodd, the head of the Motion Picture Association of America, seemed to concede defeat. "With today’s announcement, we hope the dynamics of the conversation can change and become a sincere discussion about how best to protect the millions of American jobs affected by the theft of American intellectual property," he said in a statement. "It is incumbent that they now sincerely work with all of us to achieve a meaningful solution to this critically important goal."

The ideas present in both SOPA and PIPA may return, but both bills in their present form—and with their present names—are probably done for good.

A key figure in the fight against SOPA was Rep. Darrell Issa (R-CA). Issa had planned to use his perch as chairman of the House Oversight and Government Reform Committee to highlight the flaws of SOPA's DNS blocking provisions. He was planning to hold a hearing featuring the testimony of actual technical experts, something that had been mysteriously missing from Smith's hearings on the bill. Wednesday's Internet protests were originally scheduled to coincide with the hearings. But Issa scrapped his hearing after receiving assurances that the DNS provisions would be dropped from SOPA. The broader protest went forward anyway.

"Supporters of the Internet deserve credit for pressing advocates of SOPA and PIPA to back away from an effort to ram through controversial legislation," Issa said in a Friday statement. "Over the last two months, the intense popular effort to stop SOPA and PIPA has defeated an effort that once looked unstoppable."

"Postponing the Senate vote on PIPA removes the imminent threat to the Internet, but it's not over yet," Issa continued. "Copyright infringement remains a serious problem and any solution must be targeted, effective, and consistent with how the Internet works."
http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2012/01/internet-wins-sopa-and-pipa-both-shelved.ars
 

OccupyWackbag

Registered User
Dec 12, 2011
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#4
VCRs didn't kill the movie industry, tape recorders didn't kill the music industry, same with the internet.

It's the same cycle over and over again just different mediums and every time the industry wants to make it sound like its the end of the world only to be proven utterly wrong over and over again.
 

Begbie

Wackbag Generalissimo
Jul 21, 2003
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#6
Oh cool. Another thread on this. Where's the censor police when you really need them? :action-sm
Still too busy monitoring the Crazy Ron Paul Eroticism Thread and filtering out most of the pro-Ron Paul comments. :icon_cool
 

Pigdango

Silence, you mortal Fuck!
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Jun 22, 2004
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#7
VCRs didn't kill the movie industry, tape recorders didn't kill the music industry, same with the internet.

It's the same cycle over and over again just different mediums and every time the industry wants to make it sound like its the end of the world only to be proven utterly wrong over and over again.
That's not exactly a fair comparison. VCRs and Tape Recorders allowed you to personally share a copy of something with your friend, but there was an expense to do it, degrading quality with each copy, and of course the limitation that you had to be in the same room to share. Now one DVD can be replicated and shared with tens of thousands of people anywhere in the world instantly.

This is an older chart and I think it's from Britain, but I thought it was interesting. The music industry has been hit the hardest over this 10 year period, but maybe to your point, total entertainment spending is still up, including DVD sales. So maybe the music industry's problems have more to do with the quality of the product?

 

whiskeyguy

PR representative for Drunk Whiskeyguy.
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Jan 12, 2010
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#8
My biggest problem (in relation to piracy) with the movie and music industries is the DRM protection on the files. I'm willing to buy a movie or CD I really want, but once I own it I want to be able to put it on any device I own. Louie CK got a lot of respect from me for doing that, and I refused to share my copy with any of my deadbeat friends (forcing them to buy it themselves) for just that reason.

By the way, DRM protected media does absolutely fucking nothing. It only inconveniences people. Someone is always going to strip the protection and make it available, so why are people going to pay to be inconvenienced?
 

Party Rooster

Unleash The Beast
Apr 27, 2005
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#9
That's not exactly a fair comparison. VCRs and Tape Recorders allowed you to personally share a copy of something with your friend, but there was an expense to do it, degrading quality with each copy, and of course the limitation that you had to be in the same room to share. Now one DVD can be replicated and shared with tens of thousands of people anywhere in the world instantly.

This is an older chart and I think it's from Britain, but I thought it was interesting. The music industry has been hit the hardest over this 10 year period, but maybe to your point, total entertainment spending is still up, including DVD sales. So maybe the music industry's problems have more to do with the quality of the product?
The a la carte pricing of today's music has had a lot to do with it as well.
 

Norm Stansfield

私は亀が好きだ。
Mar 17, 2009
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#12
So maybe the music industry's problems have more to do with the quality of the product?
Well, quality of music is subjective. And, more importantly, it doesn't really have anything to do with the demand for it. Michael Jackson is one of the best selling musicians in history, I don't think you would claim that that's because the quality of his music was superior.

What you should be looking at, to determine whether piracy is causing sales to drop, is demand. If demand dropped, then that explains the drop in sales, no need to blame piracy. But if demand is constant or higher, then the only other explanation for lower sales is piracy.

And it's pretty obvious that demand for music is higher. There are more consumers in the world (by orders of magnitude more, not just because of rising population levels, but because large areas of the globe have opened up as markets for American music, that weren't there before), and the saturation of musical devices is higher within that consumer base.

All you have to do to know for a fact that the drop in music sales is caused by piracy is this: compare the sale of electronic devices dedicated to listening to music, globally, to the sale of music itself, globally. The discrepancy, which is not a few percent, or even 50%, but hundreds of percentage points, is almost in its entirety due to piracy.

And that in turn is causing the quality and variety of music being created to be less than it would otherwise be, by orders of magnitude. So you're right, this is not just like cassette tapes. This is like having property rights vs. not having them. It's like trying to produce something in the Soviet Union vs. the United States.
 

Pigdango

Silence, you mortal Fuck!
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Jun 22, 2004
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#13
Yes, quality is subjective when it comes to an individual song or artist, but in terms of the industry, quality is measured by the industry putting out music that people want to buy. As you put it - demand. Up until the past decade, music was very cyclical - spurts of lighter pop music broken up every 7-10 years by a surge in Rock music. This makes sense, as kids that grow up listening to teen acts look for something harder or more serious as they get older.

It has been these surges in Rock music that fueled industry growth. This went on until the mid 90's, but there hasn't been an industry-wide shift towards rock music in almost 20 years. Sure, some individual bands have found some crossover success, but the industry as a whole has been stuck in a pop rut for almost 15 years. Again, I'm not talking about personal preference, which is subjective. I'm talking about the acts that drive sales within the industry. I think because the industry hasn't been able to develop quality rock acts, kids that are outgrowing Justin Bieber have nowhere to go within the industry, which is why they are turning to video games and movies for their entertainment.
 

Ballbuster1

In The Danger Zone...
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Aug 26, 2002
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#14
They're just shelving this because it's an election year they don't
want to push unpopular legislation on perspective voters. It'll be back.
 

Stormrider666

Hell is home.
Mar 19, 2005
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#15
I'm guessing the Chamber of Commerce and Creative America didn't get the message. They're still running a commercial asking people to get Congress to pass the bills.
 

Psychopath

Plata O Plomo
Dec 28, 2008
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#16
I'm guessing the Chamber of Commerce and Creative America didn't get the message. They're still running a commercial asking people to get Congress to pass the bills.
But there still is a chance that the bill may be passed. That is one of the reasons that you may still be seeing ads.
 

Begbie

Wackbag Generalissimo
Jul 21, 2003
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#17
As pointed out previously...Eric Holder, Joe Biden and a bunch of other politicians on both sides are in bed with the RIAA/MPAA and there are 5 RIAA lawyers in the DoJ. Believe me, the question won't be "How do we find common ground on these two bills?" It'll instead be "What do we need to do to sneak these bills through?"
 

Konstantin K

Big League Poster
Aug 25, 2010
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#18
As pointed out previously...Eric Holder, Joe Biden and a bunch of other politicians on both sides are in bed with the RIAA/MPAA and there are 5 RIAA lawyers in the DoJ. Believe me, the question won't be "How do we find common ground on these two bills?" It'll instead be "What do we need to do to sneak these bills through?"
Yeah, I'm really happy that these have been stopped for the time being, but I feel like it's only a matter of time before something similar gets passed.
 

Norm Stansfield

私は亀が好きだ。
Mar 17, 2009
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#19
Yes, quality is subjective when it comes to an individual song or artist, but in terms of the industry, quality is measured by the industry putting out music that people want to buy.
No, not "want to buy". Just want. It's irrelevant what way they want to get it. The point is that they want it. And I called that demand, because it describes wanting something better than the word quality.

I'm talking about the acts that drive sales within the industry.
Demand, not sales. We are discussing whether it's privacy that is hurting sales, or the lack of demand for the music. When you just use sales and demand interchangeably, you are assuming that it's lack of demand. If you then use that assumption to argue that piracy is not the problem, you are committing a logical fallacy called begging the question.

Just look at overall demand: how many people are listening to music, compared to the past. If it's higher, that means that in a free market sales would also be higher. That's how the law of supply and demand works. And it is a scientific law. If it doesn't apply, that's proof that the market isn't free. In this case, it's not free because thieves have more control over the products on the market than the producers do.
 

Party Rooster

Unleash The Beast
Apr 27, 2005
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#20
No, not "want to buy". Just want. It's irrelevant what way they want to get it. The point is that they want it. And I called that demand, because it describes wanting something better than the word quality.


Demand, not sales. We are discussing whether it's privacy that is hurting sales, or the lack of demand for the music. When you just use sales and demand interchangeably, you are assuming that it's lack of demand. If you then use that assumption to argue that piracy is not the problem, you are committing a logical fallacy called begging the question.

Just look at overall demand: how many people are listening to music, compared to the past. If it's higher, that means that in a free market sales would also be higher. That's how the law of supply and demand works. And it is a scientific law. If it doesn't apply, that's proof that the market isn't free. In this case, it's not free because thieves have more control over the products on the market than the producers do.
Look, I'm on your side on this and definitely think sales are down because of piracy. But the purchase model has also changed. In the 80's and 90's you pretty much had to buy the whole CD if you liked a particular song and then hoped there were 3 or 4 other decent songs on there. And it cost anywhere from $10-$17 for that CD. Now, a person can download those 4 favorite songs for a buck a piece and be just as happy having only invested $4 for the same experience.
 

MagicBob

Registered User
Dec 2, 2010
2,171
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#21
yea!!!! its still legal to take advertising dollars from those selling stolen/knock-off goods!!!
"The Internet" has won a victory!!!!:action-sm:action-sm:action-sm
 

MayrMeninoCrash

Liberal Psycopath
Dec 9, 2004
24,440
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#22
Nice Smackdown on Dodd's threats over SOPA

Wikipedia founder Jimmy Wales: MPAA chairman Christopher Dodd should be fired

Wikipedia founder Jimmy Wales had fighting words for Motion Picture Association of America chairman Christopher Dodd, calling the former Senator and current lobbyist out on his recent threats and pronouncing that the MPAA should fire its chief.

“Candidly, those who count on quote ‘Hollywood’ for support need to understand that this industry is watching very carefully who’s going to stand up for them when their job is at stake,” Dodd said to Fox News recently. “Don’t ask me to write a check for you when you think your job is at risk and then don’t pay any attention to me when my job is at stake.”

Wales argued that these transparent statements make the MPAA out to be a corrupt, Congress-buying organization. He also challenged Dodd’s assertion that Wikipedia’s decision to blackout its site in protest of SOPA, an effort Wales said was a “massive success,” constituted an abuse of power.

10 million people contacted Congress, Wales said. “That’s not an abuse of power, that’s democracy,” he said. “[Dodd] had best get used to it.”

The heated war of words between Wales and Dodd has to do with each others’ opposing viewpoints on SOPA and PIPA, two almost-dead pieces of legislation that would give the U.S. government and copyright holders the authority to seek court orders against foreign websites associated with infringing intellectual property. Wales is so opposed to the legislation that he helped champion a web-wide protest.

But Wales told the audience at the Design Life Digital conference in Munich that he believes digital piracy is a very real problem that needs to be addressed with better legislation. “I hope to see … a window of opportunity for Hollywood to come to the table and talk to Silicon Valley with a little more humility,” Wales said. “The laws need to be tweaked … but we do not need a Draconian new regime.”
http://venturebeat.com/2012/01/24/wales-versus-dodd/
 

Hoffman

Guess who's back? Hoffman's back
Sep 28, 2006
34,674
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#23
But...but...what's Kirk's talking point going to be now?