Jim Norton and Tom Papa: Comedy fans vs. Exposure

justifyyourgarb

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Mar 15, 2007
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#1
I found this conversation really interesting.
(I fucked up and there's no pictures with most of the video. Whoops.)
[video=youtube;rKxeAh3zukE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rKxeAh3zukE&feature=youtu.be[/video]

They each have two completely different schools of thought. I tend to agree more with Tom. The people that are more than likely to pay to see Norton in a club will be a comedy fan already, not a person that saw him on Leno. I personally wouldn't go see a person just because I saw them on television.


Conversely, my 60 year old Mother knows who Jim Norton is from his stint on the brief "Jay Leno Primetime Show" (she said he seemed like a sweety, which was hilarious). But she'd never ever go to a comedy club to see him.
 

Jacuzzi Billy

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#2
Instead of all these guys doing their podcasts, how about they all get together a few times a week and do a Tough Crowd type show and post it online? They all claim to have loved it so much so why not continue it? It would get them more exposure than their podcasts I imagine. Tough Crowd is why I (and many others) started listening.
 
Jan 25, 2006
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#3
So far the first 2 minutes are 2 people arguing about how many viewers Leno gets, and neither actually
know
 

justifyyourgarb

You drab South Bend cocksuckers are all the same.
Mar 15, 2007
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#5
So far the first 2 minutes are 2 people arguing about how many viewers Leno gets, and neither actually
know
I'd say Papa's guess would be more accurate, only because he has his own show on the same network.
 
Jan 25, 2006
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#6
I agree with Tom, and I'm not really even sure what Jim's point is from this limited clip.
Just because you've got exposure and enough people have seen you doesn't mean anything IMO as far as turning that into standup sales.

Like Tom was saying, it seems like people who like standup are going to see standup, and probably know Jim or just go period.
I don't think anyone is watching a comedian do a 3 minute piece on Leno or Letterman, going online to see when they're in town, and spending X amount of money on tickets.
But that's just me, I've never been to a comedy show...

I also agree with Tom about the demographics.
 

Jacuzzi Billy

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#7
I'm glad they found a role for Tom. He should continue doing ratings talk because he sure ain't funny.
 

mills

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Jan 30, 2005
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#9
Holy shit some people are myopic. Think ahead a few years. Try it, it's not that har- oh wait. 2012. Drats.
 

transit grinder

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#10
If Jimmy's stance had been "Leno is my buddy and I have a lot of fun doing his show" I would have sided with him. Instead he was claiming, what was it, 10m nightly viewers? (Too lazy to watch the clip again.) I definitely agreed with everything Tom was saying - because he was spot on, but I hated to hear lil' Jimmy have his dream shattered on the air. Also to the person who brought up the idea of a sort-of Tough Crowd podcast, that's a really good fucking idea. I would buy the shit out of episodes of that on iTunes or Amazon or what have you. Just like I would with the original show.
 
Sep 23, 2004
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#11
Everyone knows at this stage that doing these late night talk shows does nothing for your career. It's not even close to what it used to be. I side with Tom Papa here. Also it isn't just ratings that matter. It really is demographic. How many people in target demos, say 18-54 (people who tend to show up to comedy shows) actually watch Jay Leno on a regular basis? I don't believe it is as strong as people who watch The Daily Show or Colbert. In fact, if you really want to talk about the power of demographics, look how strong the Daily Show has been in launching people.

I would be curious to see how many of the people who pay to see Jim know him ONLY from Jay Leno. I can't imagine it's more than 5 or 10% of the audience. I could be wrong, but those people just aren't the type who support artists at all.
 

LineBackerU

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Oct 14, 2002
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#12
I haven't watched Jim Norton on Leno, but I have seen him do stand-up three times. I assume that due to FCC restrictions and audience demographics, his Leno material is completely different than his normal stand-up material. The type of people that watch The Tonight Show probably aren't the type of people that would like Norton's stand-up act.
 
Apr 29, 2007
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#13
Instead of all these guys doing their podcasts, how about they all get together a few times a week and do a Tough Crowd type show and post it online? They all claim to have loved it so much so why not continue it? It would get them more exposure than their podcasts I imagine. Tough Crowd is why I (and many others) started listening.
But where would they do it? Hmmmm... Who do they know with a TV studio in their basement?
 

The Full Bug

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#14
Instead of all these guys doing their podcasts, how about they all get together a few times a week and do a Tough Crowd type show and post it online? They all claim to have loved it so much so why not continue it? It would get them more exposure than their podcasts I imagine. Tough Crowd is why I (and many others) started listening.

Holy shit, a really good idea on Wackbag.
 

CaffeeDiva

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#15
Tom Papa nailed it that the most exposure you can get from Jay Leno is if a clip goes viral. It might also help ratings if you were to have a special on TV, where the same audience might tune in, but they're not going out to comedy clubs if they're big into Leno.

Oh, and Colin Quinn explained why there isn't a free version of tough crowd. Essentially, all the comedians are neurotic asses who are impossible to organize and look to Colin to play daddy, who's also neurotic. IMO, Opie has the personality to get everyone on the same page and make something like that happen. He obviously won't, but no one else has that leadership ability and desire, from what I can tell.
 

Hog's Big Ben

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#16
I'd say Papa's guess would be more accurate, only because he has his own show on the same network.
If only there was a way to find out the numbers without any guessing.

Jim was more accurate with the viewership, but Tom was more accurate about how it doesn't matter. Leno's viewership is ancient and milquetoast.



Yeah, it's not milktoast, you dummies.
 

Don the Radio Guy

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#17
I can't imagine it's more than 5 or 10% of the audience.
When you're a relatively successful comic that is never going to sell out Madison Square Garden like Larry the Cable Guy or Dane Cook, that 5% can make a difference in your yearly earnings. Norton from all accounts is pretty smart when it comes to the business of comedy.
 

lajikal

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#18
Gonna guess there's very few standup comedy fans in comparison to late night viewers. You have to travel, find parking, buy tickets just to sit next to a fat bitch screaming Ba-Ba-booey! It depends on who's in the audience though. Gone to Stanhope, vos, attell, and Jeffries shows and all have been great. Fucked up and bought tickets with Artie in the lineup which attracts loud fat jersey chicks.
 

mills

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#19
A Thought Experiment For The Hopelessly Dumb

Conversely, my 60 year old Mother knows who Jim Norton is from his stint on the brief "Jay Leno Primetime Show" (she said he seemed like a sweety, which was hilarious). But she'd never ever go to a comedy club to see him.
3 people are at work in your mother's office. Guy A, Guy B, and your mother. Maybe there are 5 other people in her office. Maybe there are 50 other people in her office. It doesn't matter.

Guy A - Jimmy fan
your mother - has heard of Jimmy
Guy B - never heard of Jimmy, but would go see comedy in a club

Jimmy's coming to town tonight, and Guy A is excited.

Situation 1:
Your mom's out sick. Guy A is hyped about Jimmy. He asks around once or twice if anyone else is excited. No response. Guy B ovearhears this, and doesn't give a shit. Lots of people have lots of weird little culty interests they're always trying to sell you on. It falls on deaf ears (as it should.)

Situation 2:
Your mom is in. Guy A hypes Jimmy and your mother recognizes the name. They have an albeit brief conversation about Jimmy. Guy B overhears it and instead of completely not giving a shit, he pays attention. Why? Because there was an (albeit) brief conversation about it, and *people* - instead of just one fat pasty loser - in his workplace were talking about it. So he goes to the show.

He comes back Monday a fan or at least someone Guy A can talk at about Jimmy, and through that Jimmy's name is heard dozens more times in the office than it would have been if your mom had been out sick. That's called exposure.

Tom Papa is a fucking shortsighted imbecile.
 

transit grinder

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#20
There are an infinite number of situations you could come up with. Tom Papa was right.
 

Pigdango

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#21
I don't know if Jimmy brought this up, but a large portion of people who see him at a club are just club "regulars" who see him because they saw his "coming soon" poster online or at the club. For THOSE people, "from the Tonight Show" means a LOT, whether they've seen him on it or not. The name of the show still adds credibility to a Comedian's resume, especially with folks that go to a Comedy Club in flyover country.
 

mills

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#22
There are an infinite number of situations you could come up with where Jimmy appears on Leno.
And 0.00000% of them hurt his comedy career, while greater than 0% of them help it.
 

Neckbeard

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#24
Late night talk shows will do a "share." That is the percentage of the amount of people watching t.v. at the time. Leno will do a 4 or a 5 share. He won't do a 4 or a 5 rating, not at all.

A ratings point is 1 percent of the number of households that have a television, which is a little over 1 million. A realistic Leno rating will be something like a 1 or 2. The total people who watch it for any amount of time, plus more than 1 person per household, will be like 3ish million or so. The share and the ratings of the 18-49 year old people who watch will be even lower. Maybe 1 out of the 4 share will be in that age group. So about 1 million people in that demo will watch.

All of the "low brow horseshit" that Sweet Li'l Jimmy Nordon wouldn't do would help him out a lot more. 30 cameos spread out between say, prime time viewing or even something like Comedy Central or Adult Swim would help him more.

There is also the idea of the "worth" of a viewer. Somebody who watches Adult Swim and Cartoon Network might be substantially more likely to go see Jim Norton based on appearances because they like standup and are more likely to enjoy Norton's type of humor. Norton also would be nearly as restricted on TV-14 and MA cable television than he is on something like the Tonight Show. So appearances on things like that would be more targeted to the people who wants.

Norton has done Leno like 40 times. Is Norton a big time stand up? Yeah. But even he himself admits that he hasn't seen some giant push from being on Leno.
 
Sep 23, 2004
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#25
When you're a relatively successful comic that is never going to sell out Madison Square Garden like Larry the Cable Guy or Dane Cook, that 5% can make a difference in your yearly earnings. Norton from all accounts is pretty smart when it comes to the business of comedy.
Yes for sure, I agree with you. I'm just saying, it's not the same bump you get.

Although, I will say this. I really don't think you are going to packout theatres by doing Leno or Letterman, BUT, you do make some important connections with NBC and CBS. That seems to be a more behind the scenes thing that we don't see.