Discussion in 'Movies & TV' started by BIV, Mar 28, 2016.
Ok maybe I'm going to like this movie.
Will I ever see it is the real question.
@Stormrider666 , if you should ever see Kingsman 2, I would like to read your review. I had read your review for Kingsman 1 and that interested me enough to see it.
This kind of ties with what I've been saying of why I liked the movie while watching the movie. I liked the design of Polly's 1950s World and the robots. It didn't entirely fit the character, and the finale wasn't really built around 1950s stuff, but I liked the look of it. Its relative pointlessness didn't affect my enjoyment of it while watching the actual movie. Sure, it doesn't make her scheme or character make any more sense, but considering how lame most villain's lairs and looks are (e.g. the entire DCEU, King Arthur, etc.), the visual flair given to it worked for me insofar as it was something to latch onto that I don't often see in other movies. So that's where and why I give it points.
I don't know why I thought of this but tell me if it makes sense. Statesman was the wrong storyline for this movie. The point of the first one was street kid becomes gentleman. Shouldn't the point of this one have been gentleman becomes street kid? Not that it should have been grittier, but more a story about Eggsy having to return to his roots, and the question of could he return to his roots? During the first 20 minutes, it seemed like that was the story they were initially going for. Him hanging out with his friends but not really being "there" with them vs. the dinner with Princess Tilde's parents. It could still be tied into him doing a spy investigation because Kingsman could still be destroyed/attacked, which leads to him having to go to work. Hell, the entire plotline being about dangerous illegal drugs (and even how it's something shared by the street urchins and the ivory elites) ties way more into that concept than anything Statesman.
Now with him as a Prince, Eggys having to be spy plus ambassador actually opens a lot of options for the series, but I don't think they can do the 'back 2 the streetz' gimmick again.
I didn't get the sense that Strong wanted out. I got more the sense that "Someone died in the first one, guess someone needs to die in this one." And while I didn't mind Halle Berry in the role, I would have genuinely laughed if his American counterpart was Stanley Tucci.
Tell him he has to see Solo Solo and suffer with the rest of us.
Movie looked great, and seemed to be well edited, even if it didn't have the same coup de grace scene as the first.
Spoiler: Regarding Stateman
I think Statesman as an idea works better Eggsy getting knocked back. I don't think seeing Eggsy becoming a street kid and having to become a gentleman again sounds like fun. If anything there should be a period where he's forced to use what he has without all the deus ex machina tech.
Statesman helps build the world a bit and expand a bit. However, two organizations that are pretty much the same isn't that great of an idea. In retrospect it diluted the idea of the Kingsman.
So I'd say it would've been better if something happened to the Kingsman that meant Eggys was on his own for a bit, then have a Statesman show up so you can build a third movie about the Statesman without having to introduce and organization and more characters and build up a memorable bad guy in 2 hours.
Strong totally had to want out. Otherwise a screen writer should be dumped in the Atlantic for thinking that killing him off had any bit of emotional other positive impact.
Tucci would've been great. Halle Berry is the worst though.
PS. I found a group of Canadian agents working out of Omaha...
You misunderstand. I'm not saying it's a street kid having to become a gentleman again. What I more meant was, the first one was about a street kid pretending to be a gentleman. In this, it's about a gentleman pretending to be a street kid.
I didn't say it was a good idea, but if I have a bad idea, you better be damn well sure I'm taking negative credit for my bad idea.
When you put it that way, I like the idea.
Especially if he's acting like a street kid, encounters a Statesman, and has to dig himself out of it somehow, but that's pretty pedestrian.
Well I'm not here to rewrite the entire script for them. I do agree with you how the Statesman opened up the universe, and I liked them in concept. I just thought thematically the street kid --> gentleman (in 1) gentleman --> street kid (in 2) was where they were going/could have gone with it because he doesn't fit entirely into either world. He's awkward with his friends because he can't drink/drug with them, and he has to cheat with Tilde's parents, but because of his occupation and Harry's training, the gentleman aspect of his character is more him now. You could still have the Statesman in that plot, but it would have still revolved around Eggsy's character.
Actually, now that I think of it, isn't it kind of odd that none of the action in the movie took place in the US outside of the bar fight? The music festival was in Glastonbury, the snow bit was in Rome, and the Polly's Princess Dreamhouse was in Central America.
That's just them trying to take the whole secret spy thing more international, globe trotting like Bond.
Memo to Denis Villeneuve and Matthew Vaughn:
You are very talented guys, but not so talented that every second of every scene you film needs to be in the movie.
Hire a fucking editor.
Your pal Piggy
On your second to last point - she only knew to go after the Kingsman because of Charlie, who wouldn't have known about the Statesmen.
I like this idea and also thought the movie was headed this way. "Well, Merlin, we lost all our gadgets and tech - let me show you how I did things before I was a Kingsman."
And that goes on for a while before they find out about the Statesman. I was really surprised when it went right to that.
Don't compare the two movies. Up until Ford appears, the length serves 49. But I also still overall like the movie whereas you hate it.
Fair. What about other points?
As I mentioned, since taking Ford out wasn't going to fly, Joi needed to be cut, and since she was the best part of the movie...well, that's a real problem isn't it? I was stunned how little they had once Ford showed up.
I REL'd when he threw his hands up and said "fuck it, this is stupid. Let's go get a drink." It was exactly how I was feeling at that moment.
Well let's see here...
His buddy finding his stuff. If you're going to leave someone in your house, lock the weapons room. I wanted the dog to survive.
Roxy - Either you or Falldog pointed out that giving her nothing to do in the movie's opening sequence made her death too abrupt and left you feeling as if she would reappear for the entire movie. Her death should have come at Charlie's hands in the opening sequence in a far more personal manner to elevate the stakes between Eggsy and Charlie.
Firth - I was ok with him coming back, as he was great in the first movie. That being said, they wasted him in this, so I wish they hadn't done it.
That was a dumb explanation for him coming back. The glasses being bulletproof would have been better. Jackson turning away meant he wouldn't have even noticed if Harry wasn't dead.
Charlie could have been cooler if he'd murdered Roxy as I said.
I was okay with Moore. The thing that made no sense was the President's silliness. Don't accuse me of being Floyd, but the awful cage special effects made it feel like they added that part in as some form of Trump bashing.
I also had trouble with the timeline. Felt like Anal Girl's paralysis went on for days.
Channing Tatum deserved better. Combine his character with that other guy's
If Whiskey was a member of the Golden Circle, fine. But as you said, the stupid Polaroid was stupid.
My main problem was the girl wasn't hot enough. I had no problem with the fingering. It certainly wasn't the worst fingering we've seen this year.
I was trying to figure out in my head if John Denver's works had entered the public domain. It was definitely a distraction. Merlin's fav singer should have been Elton John, and he should have gone out singing "Don't let the sun go down on me."
That being said, I hated that they killed Merlin. He was the best part of the franchise for me.
I hadn't thought of Poppy's Robotics work, but yeah...
I'll add -
More on 49 later and in the right thread but...
There was a shot of Deckard knocked out in the cop car that looked like Ford napping, and I thought that was simply Ford taking a nap.
Along with all the things you mentioned, the Roxy thing was weird to me because we never saw a body. She just rolled out of bed. In a movie like this, you need a body. Charlie killing her would have made way more sense and been more impactful. At least let her die doing something awesome, not being Eggsy's wingman. She's a Kingsman and her sole purpose was to be the dork in a teen comedy whom the hero should be with.
The explanation for Firth's survival was Kahn's Magic Healing Blood dumb.
I couldn't get what they were trying to do with the President. He didn't seem Trumpish (more W.e), but are we so indoctrinated by now to see everything as anti-Trump that it doesn't matter if that was the intention? And they had fairly decent sized cages. If only Adrian Toomes started Cage Co., Inc. after losing his contact with NYC.
I don't get the paralysis. At the very least, Tilde's parents should have had her hooked up to machines. Or at least on a bed. Not standing still for three days.
Denver was also in Free Fire.
What if the final battle had more robot henchmen who kept interchanging parts? Something other than generic dudes.
WHERE DID ALL THE CAGES COME FROM?
"I know this has been a rough couple of years, now that cage free eggs are all the rage. But I've done my darndest to keep us together. Cage Co., Inc. is a family business. Has been for over a century. And I consider all of you my family. But barring some sort of miracle, I don't see CCI lasting the year."
What did they do with all the cages after the antidote went out?
Yes I spent way too much time thinking about cages during the last third of the movie.
Also, if whiskey was a double agent, why didn't he just kill Eggsy on the ski lift thing?
Why would people keep going to the Cagestrodome?
What if you lived in a city that didn't have a big stadium?
Washington DC doesn't, best of my knowledge. Did the President ship his assistant? Secretary of Whatever? Vice President? Chief of Staff? Out of state? Was it a super quarantine facility?
And here's another way they fucked up. The horrifying thing about being paralyzed is the claustrophobia. By making the cages so large and open, it takes away that feeling. The cages should have been iron lung personal or there should be 10 people per cage. A room of everyone jammed together, but it's completely silent except for the whir of machines could be horrifying.
That was the thing that really made me think of Trump - This druggie chick said mean things about the President! Impeach!
But that's my problem. Can we not say mean things about a fictional white male President without it being a Trump trigger?
I thought a lot about the paralysis too. Along with the cages. Water. Poo. Pee. How would the drones know where to deliver the antidote? Does your pot GPS you? Your coke does. That's why the helicopters.