Latest Victim of the Tolerance Mafia - Orson Scott Card

Neon

ネオン
Donator
Mar 23, 2008
51,803
18,539
513
Kingdom of Charis
#1
Excuse me for not copy pasting this article but it just makes me too mad. Short version - DC hired Card to write a new Superman thing and I guess that's wrong because he doesn't dance around with rainbow underwear during gay pride week. Seriously - fuck this world. You better be as tolerant as we say or we'll break your kneecaps!

http://www.wired.com/underwire/2013/02/orson-scott-card-superman/
 

BIV

I'm Biv Dick Black, the Over Poster.
Apr 22, 2002
78,636
27,395
898
Seattle
#3
To be fair, he is an ass on the topic.

EDIT:
...Card’s novella Hamlet’s Father, which recast the dead King in Shakespeare’s famous play as a gay pedophile who sexually abused Horatio, Laertes, Rosencrantz and Guildenstern when they were children.
That's a hoot.
 

Neon

ネオン
Donator
Mar 23, 2008
51,803
18,539
513
Kingdom of Charis
#4
To be fair, he is an ass on the topic.
He's a religious Mormon. And besides, who gives a flying fuck? Alan Moore supports Occupy Wallstreet. Sting fucking sits around and laughs with mass murderer Bashar Assad. Gay marriage isn't that important.

EDIT:


That's a hoot.
Right, because no biblical novellas were written that cast David and Jonathan as gay lovers, right? I guess you can only do that one way.
 

BIV

I'm Biv Dick Black, the Over Poster.
Apr 22, 2002
78,636
27,395
898
Seattle
#5
He's a religious Mormon. And besides, who gives a flying fuck? Alan Moore supports Occupy Wallstreet. Sting fucking sits around and laughs with mass murderer Bashar Assad. Gay marriage isn't that important.
I'm not saying I agree with the outrage, but when you advocate keeping homosexual acts illegal and punishable, there is going to be some blowback.

Right, because no biblical novellas were written that cast David and Jonathan as gay lovers, right? I guess you can only do that one way.
I wasn't criticizing that part, I just thought it was funny.
 

Neon

ネオン
Donator
Mar 23, 2008
51,803
18,539
513
Kingdom of Charis
#6
I'm not saying I agree with the outrage, but when you advocate keeping homosexual acts illegal and punishable, there is going to be some blowback.
That was in 1990! Obama was anti Gay Marriage in 2008. Where's the fucking outrage over that? But I guess only his position can "evolve."

Let's not pretend that this is anything more than the left trying to once again silence a voice that is more to the right and remove it from the entertainment world.
 

Falldog

Wackbag's Best Conservative
Donator
May 16, 2007
19,251
6,859
568
Nothern VA
#8
That was in 1990! Obama was anti Gay Marriage in 2008. Where's the fucking outrage over that? But I guess only his position can "evolve."
Yeah, those are two different situations. One person "evolved" and the other is still is an archaic douchebag.

Your overreaction to this is just as awful as people getting upset about him writing for DC.
 

Neon

ネオン
Donator
Mar 23, 2008
51,803
18,539
513
Kingdom of Charis
#9
Yeah, those are two different situations. One person "evolved" and the other is still is an archaic douchebag.
Oh really? Please find me a statement of his newer than 1990 where he reiterates his position on it.

Your overreaction to this is just as awful as people getting upset about him writing for DC.
I'm not trying to get anyone fired.
 

Neon

ネオン
Donator
Mar 23, 2008
51,803
18,539
513
Kingdom of Charis
#11
Try reading that article you linked sometime.
Try reading my post again. All he said in 2004 was that gay marriage wasn't real marriage and was damaging to society. That's a far, FAR cry from thinking that homosexual acts should be illegal. If that's not an evolving position, I don't know what is. QED.
 

Neon

ネオン
Donator
Mar 23, 2008
51,803
18,539
513
Kingdom of Charis
#12
Speaking of OSC - I read some stuff about the Ender's Game movie that made my blood curdle yesterday. Looks like it will be another WWZ type deal.
 

BIV

I'm Biv Dick Black, the Over Poster.
Apr 22, 2002
78,636
27,395
898
Seattle
#13
Speaking of OSC - I read some stuff about the Ender's Game movie that made my blood curdle yesterday. Looks like it will be another WWZ type deal.
I suspected it would be.
 

Neon

ネオン
Donator
Mar 23, 2008
51,803
18,539
513
Kingdom of Charis
#14
I suspected it would be.
I heard him speak about the attempts to make it into a movie years ago at a con, and at the time it sounded like he was adamant about it being adapted properly. I guess he either gave up or was offered enough money to not care.

EDIT: Here's his quote: "My book was already alive in the mind of every reader. This is writer-director Gavin Hood's movie, so they were his words, and it was his scene."

That is highly ominous.
 

BIV

I'm Biv Dick Black, the Over Poster.
Apr 22, 2002
78,636
27,395
898
Seattle
#15
I heard him speak about the attempts to make it into a movie years ago at a con, and at the time it sounded like he was adamant about it being adapted properly. I guess he either gave up or was offered enough money to not care.
You have a link handy to what you read, by chance?
 

BIV

I'm Biv Dick Black, the Over Poster.
Apr 22, 2002
78,636
27,395
898
Seattle
#17

Neon

ネオン
Donator
Mar 23, 2008
51,803
18,539
513
Kingdom of Charis
#18
That's not good.
My heart fucking sank when I saw that.

EDIT: I Kinda want to see Epic.
I am slowly going over that entire list, and finding some interesting movies that are already out (previous efforts by upcoming directors). In general Dark Horizons is a great website for all things related to upcoming movies.
 

Falldog

Wackbag's Best Conservative
Donator
May 16, 2007
19,251
6,859
568
Nothern VA
#19
Try reading my post again. All he said in 2004 was that gay marriage wasn't real marriage and was damaging to society. That's a far, FAR cry from thinking that homosexual acts should be illegal. If that's not an evolving position, I don't know what is. QED.
"It" being anti-gay marriage. And just because he didn't specifically reiterate that homosexual acts should be illegal doesn't mean that he changed his position on it. Until he comes out and says something differently those statements in 1990 still stand.

You're bending over background to defend this guy's shitty beliefs because what he wrote some good sci-fi.

Should people be pissed off that he's writing for DC? No. If anything should they should continue to support the writers who promote equality. But no matter what boycott are on about that doesn't mean one can simply white wash Card's shitty views.
 

BIV

I'm Biv Dick Black, the Over Poster.
Apr 22, 2002
78,636
27,395
898
Seattle
#20
Damn it Falldog, we had successfully derailed the thread and everything.
 

Neon

ネオン
Donator
Mar 23, 2008
51,803
18,539
513
Kingdom of Charis
#22
"It" being anti-gay marriage. And just because he didn't specifically reiterate that homosexual acts should be illegal doesn't mean that he changed his position on it. Until he comes out and says something differently those statements in 1990 still stand.
Fine then. Is this good enough?

He no longer advocates this, however, and argues that the 1990 stance must be seen in the context of the times (such laws were still deemed constitutional at the time) and the conservative Mormon audience to whom his essay was addressed.
And his direct quote regarding the matter:

This essay was published in February of 1990, in the following context: The Supreme Court had declared in 1986 (Bowers v. Hardwick) that a Georgia law prohibiting sodomy even in the privacy of one's own home was constitutional. I was also writing this essay to a conservative Mormon audience that at the time would have felt no interest in decriminalizing homosexual acts. In that context, my call to "leave the laws on the books" was simply recognizing the law at that time, and my call to not enforce it except in flagrant cases was actually, within that context, a liberal and tolerant view -- for which I was roundly criticized in conservative Mormon circles as being "pro-gay." Those who now use this essay to attack me as a "homophobe" deceptively ignore the context and treat the essay as if I had written it yesterday afternoon. That is absurd -- now that the law has changed (the decision was overturned in 2003) I have no interest in criminalizing homosexual acts and would never call for such a thing, any more than I wanted such laws enforced back when they were still on the books. But I stand by the main points of this essay, which concerns matters internal to the Mormon Church.
Once again, much ado about nothing.

You're bending over background to defend this guy's shitty beliefs because what he wrote some good sci-fi.
That's a ridiculous statement. I'm bending over backwards to defend this guy's right to hold shitty beliefs without being pounced on, considering he is in a business that has nothing but people with shitty beliefs. But I guess Alan Moore supporting anarchism just isn't that big a deal. And yet Frank Miller opposing Occupy Wall Street is.

And by the way, I'm not the only one supporting Card.

"Petitioning to have writer Orson Scott Card fired for his social views is as fascistic as politicians condemning a sexual preference," tweeted Mark Millar, a writer for Ultimate Fantastic Four, Kick-Ass and Wanted.

Comic-writer Jim McCann, who is openly gay, says, "A company has the right to hire whomever they choose ... and Mr. Card has the right under the First Amendment to freely speak his beliefs, no matter how hateful and archaic they may be. In turn, however, the fans have the same right to express their disappointment and outrage against his hiring.''

For McCann, the issue comes down to "who are you willing to support — the civil and equal rights of a LGBT person you know and love, or give your money to someone who actively fights against those rights and spreads hatred and intolerance."
Conversely, on the side of "tolerance":

Comic-shop retailers are also making their voices heard. On Tuesday, Richard Neal, owner of Zeus Comics in Dallas, announced on his Facebook page that the store would not carry the print edition of Adventures of Superman that contained Card's 10-page story.
Despite what you may think, it is actually possible to disagree with someone's opinion and yet be outraged when they are subject to this kind of PC pile-on.

Should people be pissed off that he's writing for DC? No. If anything should they should continue to support the writers who promote equality. But no matter what boycott are on about that doesn't mean one can simply white wash Card's shitty views.
That's what I've been saying all day. If it bothers you so much, just don't buy the comic. It's the petitions to get him fired, and the retailers refusing to carry the comic that infuriate me.
 
Last edited:

Don the Radio Guy

G-Bb-A-D
Donator
Mar 30, 2006
69,628
5,081
568
Wyoming
#23
I know nothing about this guy, but I how dare he have a different view on a controversial subject!
 

Jacuzzi Billy

Watching PTI
Donator
Mar 22, 2006
42,268
21,881
628
Red Jacuzzi
#24
The man gets a lifetime pass from me. I would hide bodies for him tonight. Having said that, he is an ass.
 

TomC

uppity neobarb
Aug 1, 2006
4,636
1,901
623
Charleston, SC
#25
I heard him speak about the attempts to make it into a movie years ago at a con, and at the time it sounded like he was adamant about it being adapted properly. I guess he either gave up or was offered enough money to not care.

EDIT: Here's his quote: "My book was already alive in the mind of every reader. This is writer-director Gavin Hood's movie, so they were his words, and it was his scene."

That is highly ominous.
He said at the end of some audio book that the "you know what" will be made clear to the viewers from the start, just not to the kids at Battle School.