Mississippi's "Personhood Amendment" fails at polls

Falldog

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JACKSON, Miss. - Mississippi voters Tuesday defeated a ballot initiative that would've declared life begins at fertilization, a proposal that supporters sought in the Bible Belt state as a way to prompt a legal challenge to abortion rights nationwide.

The so-called "personhood" initiative was rejected by more than 55 percent of voters, falling far short of the threshold needed for it to be enacted. If it had passed, it was virtually assured of drawing legal challenges because it conflicts with the Supreme Court's 1973 Roe v. Wade decision that established a legal right to abortion. Supporters of the initiative wanted to provoke a lawsuit to challenge the landmark ruling.

The measure divided the medical and religious communities and caused some of the most ardent abortion opponents, including Republican Gov. Haley Barbour, to waver with their support.

Opponents said the measure would have made birth control, such as the morning-after pill or the intrauterine device, illegal. More specifically, the ballot measure called for abortion to be prohibited "from the moment of fertilization" — wording that opponents suggested would have deterred physicians from performing in vitro fertilization because they would fear criminal charges if an embryo doesn't survive.

Supporters were trying to impose their religious beliefs on others by forcing women to carry unwanted pregnancies, including those caused by **** or incest, opponents said.

Mississippi votes, when does life begin?
Doctors call Mississippi "personhood" initiative dangerous
The politics of personhood in Mississippi

Amy Brunson voted against the measure, in part because she has been *****. She also has friends and family that had children through in vitro fertilization and she was worried this would end that process.

"The lines are so unclear on what may or may not happen. I think there are circumstances beyond everybody's control that can't be regulated through an amendment," said Brunson, a 36-year-old dog trainer and theater production assistant from Jackson.

Hubert Hoover, a cabinet maker and construction worker, voted for the amendment.

"I figure you can't be half for something, so if you're against abortion you should be for this. You've either got to be wholly for something or wholly against it," said Hoover, 71, who lives in a Jackson suburb.

Mississippi already has tough abortion regulations and only one clinic where the procedures are performed, making it a fitting venue for a national movement to get abortion bans into state constitutions.

Keith Mason, co-founder of the group Personhood USA, which pushed the Mississippi ballot measure, has said a win would send shockwaves around the country. The Colorado-based group is trying to put similar initiatives on 2012 ballots in Florida, Montana, Ohio and Oregon. Voters in Colorado rejected similar proposals in 2008 and 2010.

Barbour, long considered a 2012 presidential candidate before he ruled out a run this year, said a week ago that he was undecided. A day later, he voted absentee for the amendment, but said he struggled with his support.

"Some very strongly pro-life people have raised questions about the ambiguity and about the actual consequences — whether there are unforeseen, unintended consequences. And I'll have to say that I have heard those concerns and they give me some pause," Barbour said last week.

Barbour was prevented from seeking re-election because of term limits. The Democrat and Republican candidates vying to replace him both supported the abortion measure.

Specifically, the proposed state constitutional amendment would've defined a person "to include every human being from the moment of fertilization, cloning, or the functional equivalent thereof."

The state's largest Christian denomination, the Mississippi Baptist Convention, backed the proposal through its lobbying arm.

The bishops of the Episcopal Diocese of Mississippi and the General Conference of the United Methodist Church opposed it.

Bishop Joseph Latino of the Catholic Diocese of Jackson, a church traditionally against abortion, issued a statement neither supporting nor opposing the initiative. The Mississippi State Medical Association took a similar step, while other medical groups opposed it.

Mississippi already requires parental or judicial consent for any minor to get an abortion, mandatory in-person counseling and a 24-hour wait before any woman can terminate a pregnancy.
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-250_162-57321126/mississippis-personhood-amendment-fails-at-polls/
 

Don the Radio Guy

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Because a ballot initiative is the way to definitively decide one of the most complicated and disputed philosophical and scientific questions ever considered by man.

Typical redneck behavior.
The referendum was defeated. So rednecks typically defeat stupid ballot questions?

Stop bashing religion Norton parrot.
Do you ever tire of this?
 

Don the Radio Guy

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It's the bible-thumping rednecks that got it on the ballot and 45% of the state voted for it. And I'm guessing the redneck demographic was well represented in that number.
Or Catholics. Or Mexicans, who happen to be Catholic. Like it or not, there are a lot of people who believe that life begins at conception, and their opinion is just as valid as the guy who supports partial birth abortions because it's an unanswerable question. At least they tried to have their point of view represented in a legally proper manner instead of trying to end run the Constitution with activist judges. I'd say these "rednecks" are more civilized and respectful of the Constitution than you are. Being from California, you have no room to talk about dumb states.
 

Party Rooster

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Or Catholics. Or Mexicans, who happen to be Catholic.
1. Mexicans (actually all Hispanics): 1.4%
2. Catholics: 4.1%
:haha7:

Ok. I stand corrected. Make that only 40% (I'm assuming there's some overlap).

But of course there's this:
Bishop Joseph Latino of the Catholic Diocese of Jackson, a church traditionally against abortion, issued a statement neither supporting nor opposing the initiative.
Not exactly a ringing endorsement from the Catholic crowd.

At least they tried to have their point of view represented in a legally proper manner instead of trying to end run the Constitution with activist judges.
I think ballot initiatives are bullshit. They're more like"mob-rule" democracy than a constitutional republic, something the Founding Fathers wanted to avoid. And I seem to remember you not being a big fan if them either.

I'd say these "rednecks" are more civilized and respectful of the Constitution than you are. Being from California, you have no room to talk about dumb states.
I'll gladly take Commiefornia and all its problems over Mississippi any day.
 

Norm Stansfield

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Or Catholics. Or Mexicans, who happen to be Catholic. Like it or not, there are a lot of people who believe that life begins at conception, and their opinion is just as valid as the guy who supports partial birth abortions because it's an unanswerable question.
Jesus Fucking Christ, enough with this shit already. Really, it's impossible to distinguish between a baby and some jizz in a cunt? Unanswerable?
 

Creasy Bear

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Jesus Fucking Christ, enough with this shit already. Really, it's impossible to distinguish between a baby and some jizz in a cunt? Unanswerable?
When you're a pin-headed hayseed who is guided by religious superstition and moral absolutes... yes, it is impossible to distinguish any shade between black and white.

Hubert Hoover, a cabinet maker and construction worker, voted for the amendment.

"I figure you can't be half for something, so if you're against abortion you should be for this. You've either got to be wholly for something or wholly against it," said Hoover, 71, who lives in a Jackson suburb.
 

Creasy Bear

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Mississippi killed Jesus. I hope they're happy now.
 

CousinDave

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Can we get an amendment that says that blacks aren't people now?
 

Yesterdays Hero

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No one with a shred of intelligence thought this would pass. That said, I'm stunned the story received the publicity it got.
 

BIV

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Mississippi should use this as a new state motto.

Mississippi: Now 55% not retarded.
 

Buster H

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It's the bible-thumping rednecks that got it on the ballot and 45% of the state voted for it. And I'm guessing the redneck demographic was well represented in that number.
wow... way to look at the glass as half empty and not look at the positives. If a ballot measure like that cannot pass in a state that is heavily influenced by religion like Mississippi, then the chances of it passing anywhere else is extremely nil. Instead of being happy that it failed, you are still bitching about the 45%? If this were a ballot initiative in Mississippi back in 1970, I would venture to guess it would be 60-40 the OTHER way. As a person that is pro-choice, I see this as a huge positive.

I think ballot initiatives are bullshit. They're more like"mob-rule" democracy than a constitutional republic, something the Founding Fathers wanted to avoid. And I seem to remember you not being a big fan if them either.
If there were no way to challenge them in court, I would agree with you. Ballot initiatives can be a good thing. They can force issues to the forefront that no politician, right or left, would be willing to go near because they are too concerned with getting re-elected. Even the hard core conservatives out there will talk a big game about being pro-life (to preserve their bas), but very few of them give more than a half hearted effort in introducing actual legislation that they think will really go anywhere.

Look at Prop 215 in CA back in 1996. It brought medical marijuana to the forefront and many other states have followed suit. It's not perfect yet, but we would not be where we are now without prop 215.

They are also a way to measure where we are as a society. Look at the gay marriage one in CA back in 2008. That measure failed on the same day that the majority of people voted for Obama. That says something to the people that support it. No, it's not saying "go shit in your hat." It says they they need to continue to raise awareness and keep working to win over more people to their side. (I still think the word marriage should be wiped from every state law and it be replaced with civil union. Be it m-m, m-f or f-f, all "marriages" become civil unions in the eyes of the state and that takes away the god argument entirely)


I'll gladly take Commiefornia and all its problems over Mississippi any day.
Then stop bitching about what people do in a state you claim to not care about.
 

Don the Radio Guy

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Jesus Fucking Christ, enough with this shit already. Really, it's impossible to distinguish between a baby and some jizz in a cunt? Unanswerable?
Well, since you obviously know everything the issue is thereby solved. I'll notify all of the philosophers and scientists that their services won't be needed. While you're at it, can you please share the secret for cold fusion with us? How about the meaning of life? These are all questions that you must obviously know the answers to.
 

Falldog

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Well, since you obviously know everything the issue is thereby solved. I'll notify all of the philosophers and scientists that their services won't be needed. While you're at it, can you please share the secret for cold fusion with us? How about the meaning of life? These are all questions that you must obviously know the answers to.
Shark blood and cashews.
 

Don the Radio Guy

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Shark blood and cashews.
But cashews kinda look like a fetus! NOT A PERSON NOT A PERSON! I say we draw the line at age 21. Anyone under the age of 21 is no longer a person and we can kill them at will. Most teenagers are annoying anyway, and the acne rate will plunge! Yay for arbitrary numbers!
 

Buster H

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But cashews kinda look like a fetus! NOT A PERSON NOT A PERSON! I say we draw the line at age 21. Anyone under the age of 21 is no longer a person and we can kill them at will. Most teenagers are annoying anyway, and the acne rate will plunge! Yay for arbitrary numbers!
There is one thing that is not arbitrary. A 2 month old fetus that is removed from the womb cannot live/breath on its own.

I'm right in your corner on late term and partial birth abortion.

I saw it written here one time and while it is kinda crass, it's also true. "until a fetus is developed enough to live outside the womb, it is merely a parasote"
 

MayrMeninoCrash

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There is one thing that is not arbitrary. A 2 month old fetus that is removed from the womb cannot live/breath on its own.

I'm right in your corner on late term and partial birth abortion.

I saw it written here one time and while it is kinda crass, it's also true. "until a fetus is developed enough to live outside the womb, it is merely a parasote"
If it is determined that a mother will die unless her 35 week old fetus is aborted, which do you sacrifice?
 

Don the Radio Guy

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There is one thing that is not arbitrary. A 2 month old fetus that is removed from the womb cannot live/breath on its own.

I'm right in your corner on late term and partial birth abortion.

I saw it written here one time and while it is kinda crass, it's also true. "until a fetus is developed enough to live outside the womb, it is merely a parasote"
That's one logical place you could draw the line.

If it is determined that a mother will die unless her 35 week old fetus is aborted, which do you sacrifice?
You know what would solve this often brought up, yet very rare, talking point? Letting the states decide where they want to draw the line. Then if you don't like women getting abortions in your state, you can leave. Or if you're in a state that doesn't allow exceptions for health of the mother, she can get treatment in some place that does.

However, almost all pro-life legislation provides exceptions for rape, incest and health of the mother. Almost no one is trying to outlaw those.