Nationalized Health Care at it's Best

Budyzir

There's nothing quite like a shorn scrotum.
Nov 12, 2004
7,307
1
0
Queens, NY
#1
English 'pull own teeth' as dental service decays​

Oct 15 02:45 PM US/Eastern

Falling numbers of state dentists in England has led to some people taking extreme measures, including extracting their own teeth, according to a new study released Monday.

Others have used superglue to stick crowns back on, rather than stumping up for private treatment, said the study. One person spoke of carrying out 14 separate extractions on himself with pliers.

More typically, a lack of publicly-funded dentists means that growing numbers go private: 78 percent of private patients said they were there because they could not find a National Health Service (NHS) dentist, and only 15 percent because of better treatment.

"This is an uncomfortable read for all of us, and poses serious questions to politicians from patients," said Sharon Grant of the Commission for Patient and Public Involvement in Health.

Overall, six percent of patients had resorted to self-treatment, according to the survey of 5,000 patients in England, which found that one in five had decided against dental work because of the cost.

One researcher involved in compiling the study -- carried out by members of England's Patient and Public Involvement Forums -- came across three people in one morning who had pulled out teeth themselves.


Dentists are also concerned about the trend.

Fifty-eight percent said new dentists' contracts introduced last year had made the quality of care worse, while 84 percent thought they had failed to make it easier for patients to find care.

Almost half of all dentists -- 45 percent -- said they no longer take NHS patients, while 41 percent said they had an "excessive" workload. Twenty-nine percent said their clinic had problems recruiting or retaining dentists.

"These findings indicate that the NHS dental system is letting many patients down very badly," said Grant.

"It appears many are being forced to go private because they don't want to lose their current trusted and respected dentist or because they just can't find a local NHS dentist."

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=071015184546.avefmhtd&show_article=1
Can't wait till Hillary is elected.

While I agree, our current system is by no means perfect, a nationalized health care system will eventually lead to rationing of services and problems like this, where medical providers peruse alternative service models. Government managed health care will result in excessive bureaucracy, mismanagement and fraud.
 

TheDrip

I'm bi-winning.
Jan 9, 2006
5,051
3
228
#4
while 41 percent said they had an "excessive" workload
Is it just me, or does this not surprise anyone when discussing the British dental industry. I'd swear they brush their teeth with sugar.
 

Budyzir

There's nothing quite like a shorn scrotum.
Nov 12, 2004
7,307
1
0
Queens, NY
#5
I say make HMO's illegal

Or in any case, they should not be "for profit"
I agree with your second point, HMOs should be thought of as a public service, not a business. Run as a for profit entity with stock shares traded on an exchange, they are forced to turn ever increasing profits for the shareholders and subsequently patient services suffer.

Another problem is the trial lawyer, with ever increasing jury awards, malpractice insurance becomes unaffordable to the average doctor.

As a little lad, I still remember our family doctor making a house call, that wide bag and all. This same doctor served my grandparent, my parents and me. I can imagine a lot of doctors would like to have a similar career but in today's economics, it's simply impractical.
 

THE FEZ MAN

as a matter of fact i dont have 5$
Aug 23, 2002
42,657
9,665
848
#6
Is it just me, or does this not surprise anyone when discussing the British dental industry. I'd swear they brush their teeth with sugar.
they never put fluoride in there water. as for the complaints, i say oh well, its like the storys about old people eating dog food, they do it because they want to not necessarily because they have to.
 

TrybalRage

Registered User
Aug 5, 2004
2,035
2
533
Kennesaw, GA
#7
I say make HMO's illegal

Or in any case, they should not be "for profit"

Yep, HMO's are a perfect example of the government getting involved in health care.

Everyone knows that the gov screws up everything it does, but insists that they be taken care of by those same people.

Fucked up.
 

MrAbovePar

En Taro Anthony
Mar 14, 2005
13,779
3,173
678
Covington. La
#8
Who wants to spend tens of thousands of dollars and study for years just to become a gov't employee?
 

Balogny Tits

It's not that were better, were just less worse
May 26, 2005
1,049
2
236
Canada
#9
Can't wait till Hillary is elected.

While I agree, our current system is by no means perfect, a nationalized health care system will eventually lead to rationing of services and problems like this, where medical providers peruse alternative service models. Government managed health care will result in excessive bureaucracy, mismanagement and fraud.
Bullshit; England has a 2 tier system.
 

Balogny Tits

It's not that were better, were just less worse
May 26, 2005
1,049
2
236
Canada
#10
And, the mistake that England made is not paying the Doctors enough. Universal Health care should not mean pro-bono work for doctors. Pay them a fair and marketable wage, you won't have these problems, hense, the English problem with a two tier system.

Canada ran into the same problem; to cut health care costs they cuts doctor's pay. The result was most MD's moving to the US. We have since realized that must pay market rates or lose the best and brightest. I don't see doctor retention as the issue it was 10 years ago.
 

Balogny Tits

It's not that were better, were just less worse
May 26, 2005
1,049
2
236
Canada
#11
Another problem is the trial lawyer, with ever increasing jury awards, malpractice insurance becomes unaffordable to the average doctor.
The problem is NOT THE TRIAL LAWYER, but the system. Look at every other common law jurisdiction and the ONLY one with way out there awards is the US. It is NOT the lawyers or the judges or the juries but the US LEGAL system that is the problem. Look at yourself, not the system.
 

UCFGavin

Registered User
Feb 25, 2006
2,061
0
0
#12
And, the mistake that England made is not paying the Doctors enough. Universal Health care should not mean pro-bono work for doctors. Pay them a fair and marketable wage, you won't have these problems, hense, the English problem with a two tier system.

Canada ran into the same problem; to cut health care costs they cuts doctor's pay. The result was most MD's moving to the US. We have since realized that must pay market rates or lose the best and brightest. I don't see doctor retention as the issue it was 10 years ago.
i think one of the biggest things helping canada is the lack of immigrants you're getting. thats arguably the biggest problem in the socialist nations in europe right now is that they are being flooded by illegal immigrants who get care but contribute nothing.
 

Balogny Tits

It's not that were better, were just less worse
May 26, 2005
1,049
2
236
Canada
#13
i think one of the biggest things helping canada is the lack of immigrants you're getting. thats arguably the biggest problem in the socialist nations in europe right now is that they are being flooded by illegal immigrants who get care but contribute nothing.
You are wrong. Canada, like most other developed nations has a declining birth rate. We are increasing immigration like mad. The difference is that we are taking the educated. You are more likely to find an immigrant as your ER doc than your taxi driver.

Btw, I don't even think the facts pan out on the European immigrants. There are lots of different cultures; take France, most of the "immigrants" have been there for three generations. Create a cultural mosaic or a melting pot.
 

abudabit

New Wackbag
Oct 10, 2004
14,802
0
0
#15
Ok, so in summary if we execute all HMOs, fat people, and malpractice lawyers we should be alright.
 

UCFGavin

Registered User
Feb 25, 2006
2,061
0
0
#16
You are wrong. Canada, like most other developed nations has a declining birth rate. We are increasing immigration like mad. The difference is that we are taking the educated. You are more likely to find an immigrant as your ER doc than your taxi driver.

Btw, I don't even think the facts pan out on the European immigrants. There are lots of different cultures; take France, most of the "immigrants" have been there for three generations. Create a cultural mosaic or a melting pot.
the declining birthrates are definitely a problem, but its not the only one. a lot of european countries are getting immigrants from former soviet states and africa. very similar to the mexican issue the united states has, although the european borders tend to be a bit more open. if they do not allow immigration, they will slowly die off, if they allow too much, they get overrun. definitely a problematic situation.
 

Schmed

I'm a corpse without a soul...
Nov 4, 2002
2,356
0
0
Shitsville, NY
#19
The problem is NOT THE TRIAL LAWYER, but the system. Look at every other common law jurisdiction and the ONLY one with way out there awards is the US. It is NOT the lawyers or the judges or the juries but the US LEGAL system that is the problem. Look at yourself, not the system.
And what's the legal system ? Lawyers and Judges, and their creative ways of interpreting laws.

Used car salesmen sell shitty cars, Lawyers sell shitty cases.
 

Schmed

I'm a corpse without a soul...
Nov 4, 2002
2,356
0
0
Shitsville, NY
#20
You are wrong. Canada, like most other developed nations has a declining birth rate. We are increasing immigration like mad. The difference is that we are taking the educated. You are more likely to find an immigrant as your ER doc than your taxi driver.

Btw, I don't even think the facts pan out on the European immigrants. There are lots of different cultures; take France, most of the "immigrants" have been there for three generations. Create a cultural mosaic or a melting pot.
Really, what about the 20 million landscapers and food service "technicians", educated ?

France's cultural mosaic: North African Islamic madmen attempting to burn down Paris.

Let's not forget the Netherlands: Knife in heart of Theo Van Gogh with attached letter.

Get real, please. Ultra tolerance will kill us all.
 

Schmed

I'm a corpse without a soul...
Nov 4, 2002
2,356
0
0
Shitsville, NY
#21
Really, what about the 20 million landscapers and food service "technicians", educated ?

France's cultural mosaic: North African Islamic madmen attempting to burn down Paris.
Let's not forget the Netherlands: Knife in heart of Theo Van Gogh with attached letter.

Get real, please. Ultra tolerance will kill us all.
 

Kris_LTRMa

LoseTheRadio.net's Ma
Nov 17, 2006
9,749
1
333
right where I wanna be
#22
Well, it's been nice knowing you all - I'm a fat person who belongs to an HMO and have been happy with said HMO since I joined almost 16 years ago. Oh and I know a lot of malpractice lawyers which makes me guilty by association on that front too. :haha7:

schmed said:
And what's the legal system ? Lawyers and Judges, and their creative ways of interpreting laws.

Used car salesmen sell shitty cars, Lawyers sell shitty cases.
On the intake level, there should be some control over what cases actually make it to court. I can't tell you how many cases I've input over the years where I just shake my head and said 'you've got to be fucking kidding me'.

Another facet is our jury system. I know that if you bring the same exact case in two different counties here in New York, you're going to get two different verdicts. An attorney's dream used to be (may still be) was to bring a case in Bronx County because he knew that the n**gers there would give a large sum award, even if the case was without merit. The same case in Nassau County, while maybe getting an award would be considerably less.

The best case we had was where this woman was suing a Japanese restaurant because she believed her husband died as a result of the chef tossing a shrimp at him. Apparently he moved to get out of the way of the shrimp and did something to his neck. To make a long story short, the defendant kept trying to get plaintiff to settle but the family refused to budge. She should have taken the settlement because when the jury came back, they decided that the restaurant was not responsible for her husband's death and awarded her a big fat zero! Guaranteed the same case in Bronx County would have netted her whatever award she was seeking plus more.
 

UCFGavin

Registered User
Feb 25, 2006
2,061
0
0
#23
europeans will die off if they close their borders?
as their birthrates continue to decline, they will run into problems maintaining their population. i never said they would cease to exist, but they would decline slowly in numbers.