Never Bring a Knife to a Gunfight: Police Shoot Knife-Wielding Man in Times Sq

Dec 8, 2004
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#1




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When the tourists and shoppers thronging Times Square on Saturday afternoon first saw the police officers, guns drawn, confronting a knife-wielding man, many thought they had stumbled onto a movie set.

But it was quickly apparent this was no celluloid fantasy.

As the man fled, weaving through crowds and darting between cars, he threatened bystanders, witnesses said. The police gave chase, eventually cornering him near 37th Street and Seventh Avenue and killing him in a fusillade of bullets after, police officials said, he ignored orders to drop his weapon and lunged at officers.

Paul J. Browne, the chief police spokesman, said officers used pepper spray six times to try to halt the man, who repeatedly threatened officers with a kitchen knife with a six-inch blade.

“He continued to advance on uniformed officers, refusing officers’ repeated commands to drop his weapon,” Mr. Browne said.

“Two officers discharged their weapons at close quarters on Seventh Avenue between 37th and 38th Streets.”

The police did not immediately identify the 51-year-old man, who was pronounced dead at Bellevue Hospital Center.

“He was swinging at people as he ran,” said Jobby Nogver, 17, visiting from Boston. Mr. Nogver watched as about a dozen police officers finally surrounded the man and shots were fired. “I can’t tell you how many shots,” he said. “It was a lot.”

The police did not say on Saturday how many shots officers had fired.

The confrontation began shortly after 3 p.m. on the pedestrian plaza near the Hard Rock Cafe on 43rd Street and Seventh Avenue, in the heart of Times Square.

Lincoln Rocha, 28, and his wife, Priscilla Rocha, 28, visiting from Brazil, were walking toward Toys “R” Us when they saw three uniformed police officers talking to a man on the sidewalk. Mr. Browne said that two officers initially approached the man because he appeared to be smoking marijuana. When the officers tried to arrest the man, he stuck a marijuana cigarette in his pocket, raised the knife over his head and started to put on a blue bandanna.

“Right when he pulled the knife, the cops drew their guns,” Mr. Rocha said. The man was cursing the police, he said, and the officers kept yelling at him to drop the weapon.

Then, the man fled, at first zigzagging around the plaza and then running south on Seventh Avenue. At times, witnesses said, he appeared to be skipping backward down the center of the avenue, which the police had closed to traffic. A group of officers followed, they said, weapons at the ready.

One witness, Brielle Basso, 19, said, “Once we saw what was happening, we just started running.”

By this time, there were dozens of officers in pursuit, both on foot and in police cars and vans.

Jeffrey Gibson, 39, watched the chase unfold. Each time an officer got close, he said, the man would swing his knife. The man dodged each vehicle that tried to block his path.

Karon Rakes, 43, from Cleveland, said the man was taunting the police.

“He just started saying, ‘Come on, come get me,’ ” she said.

Mrs. Rocha said that when people realized the police had their guns drawn, they fled, crouching in doorways, behind newsstands and near parked cars.

“I almost had a heart attack,” she said. “Everyone started running.”

Out-of-towners on a red double-decker tourist bus gawked at the unfolding drama, a bit more of the New York experience than they had bargained for. Nervous onlookers peered out from restaurant and shop windows, the flashing lights of Times Square lending a bizarre atmosphere, which grew even wilder as a crowd gathered, attracted by the commotion.

Times Square, known as the Crossroads of the World, is no stranger to odd scenes. But the chase Saturday was unlike anything in recent memory.

As the police pursued the man, pointing pistols with double-handed grips, they were trailed by dozens of people with cameras and cellphones held above their heads, Mr. Rocha among them.

“Some people were crouching near an office building,” Mr. Rocha said. “But others took out the cellphone cameras to try and capture it.”

As the man ran, police stretched yellow crime-scene tape across the corner of 37th Street and Seventh Avenue, hoping to create a roadblock, Mr. Nogver said.

At this point, the police began trying to clear away civilians. Mr. Nogver said that he saw about a dozen police officers cornering the man on the sidewalk near the Potbelly Sandwich Shop at 37th and Seventh.

He could not clearly see the man, and the next thing he heard were gunshots.

While the police released no details about the victim, some of those who work in Times Square said they had seen him before. Joshua, 23, who sells tickets to comedy shows, said that he thought the man was a regular in the area who often wore a T-shirt that said “Ninjas killed my family” and asked tourists for money.

Joshua, who declined to give his last name, also said that the man would often dress as a ninja.

Dave Basso, 41, of Cleveland, said he thought the police had no choice but to shoot the man.

“He was either going to get shot or he was going to take someone hostage,” he said.
Link
 

gleet

What's black and white and red all over?
Jul 24, 2005
22,541
13,853
608
Idaho
#2
Bloomberg to ban kitchen knives.
 
Dec 8, 2004
49,313
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Maine
#3
From another article... they posted some Twitter comments...

Others were more critical of the police, questioning why such force was required.

Open fire on a man carrying a knife in TIMES SQUARE? What happened 2 shooting 2 DISABLE? Bust a knee-cap so he can’t run.
ThatWritingChic (@thatwritingchic) 11 Aug 12

i know the man did wrong going around times square with a knife but one bullet to stop him would of been enough!
JessicaCocaineE ; ❀ (@iStayBossing) 11 Aug 12


 

jimmyslostchin

Malarkey is slang for bullshit isn't it?
Jun 8, 2005
2,331
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#4
Hilarious. I love the "shoot to disable" people that believe TV and movie and shootouts are reality.
 

KRSOne

Registered User
Dec 8, 2011
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#5
i know the man did wrong going around times square with a knife but one bullet to stop him would of been enough!
Exactly, or why not use some mace, maybe rubber bullets.
 

Warfarer

I can't think of anything funny.
Jun 20, 2005
3,149
6
523
Alabama
#6
Good. This guy sucks and could have done a lot of damage. Why put more burdens in the prison system when you can just deal with it.

In an alternate universe, this could have happened:

Police "drop your weapon"
stupid asshole "yes officer"
The guy goes to jail and gets a fine since he didn't start swinging a fucking knife at officers.
 

KRSOne

Registered User
Dec 8, 2011
13,082
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Sunnydale
#9
Would you want to run up to this guy and spray some mace at him... good luck bro.
Since its NYC, pepper spray is the only thing the law abiding are allowed to have on them to protect themselves from these maniacs. What about a stun gun? The ones that shoot out the prongs. That would have made him drop the knife.
 

fletcher

Darkness always says hello.
Donator
Feb 20, 2006
59,523
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#12
Since its NYC, pepper spray is the only thing the law abiding are allowed to have on them to protect themselves from these maniacs. What about a stun gun? The ones that shoot out the prongs. That would have made him drop the knife.
The cops maced him a good half dozen times, what makes you think in that tiny little brain of yours that a taser would have made him stop? Ive seen videos of people getting tased and they dont even skip a beat. Crazys gonna crazy.

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=194_1333568454
 
Dec 8, 2004
49,313
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Maine
#13
The cops maced him a good half dozen times, what makes you think in that tiny little brain of yours that a taser would have made him stop? Ive seen videos of people getting tased and they dont even skip a beat. Crazys gonna crazy.

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=194_1333568454
There was one where this naked black guy was trying to break into some Preschool... I think they tasered him like 6 or 7 times with no effect.

Edit this one:

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Motor Head

HIGHWAY TRASH REMOVAL
Jan 23, 2006
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#16
Since its NYC, pepper spray is the only thing the law abiding are allowed to have on them to protect themselves from these maniacs. What about a stun gun? The ones that shoot out the prongs. That would have made him drop the knife.
Those things might have worked, however NYPD only gives tasers to sergeants and above. Rubber bullets are highly effective, but obviously nobody there had any sort of crowd control weapon. You have to realize that he is on a busy street full of people. Pepper spray didn't work, so they were likely dealing with an individual that is high on drugs.


So, this is how I see it.
No Sgt with a taser anywhere in the area, nobody on foot patrol has riots gear and a stupid fucker is running around with a knife in a tourist area with thousands of people walking around. The NYPD officers had their hand forced.
 

OilyJillFart

Well-Lubed Member
Sep 26, 2008
2,877
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#17
Fuck the news. Most people are happy the asshole was dispatched with no harm to others. Stop indulging the tiny minority of rabblerousers who thrive on attention.
Alternately, if the press feels compelled to publish opinions asking why police don't shoot to disable, why not follow up with an actual answer from someone in law enforcement? Edjumacate some readers, be useful.
 

kidconnor

55gallon hog
Mar 16, 2005
5,369
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#18
Chose this one because of the camera mans commentary.... "fucking white boys maaaaaann...." I guess about 10-12 shots.

[video=youtube_share;PrziUcKEHeo]http://youtu.be/PrziUcKEHeo[/video]

Hear this at the end."That wasn't a justified kill.. at all"

Sgt and above have tasers. Cars have riot shields in the back. Didn't seem like they could contain this guy to use them anyway even if they did take the time to get them out. I can't remember us ever using rubber bullets. Seems like they did what they had to.
 

Warfarer

I can't think of anything funny.
Jun 20, 2005
3,149
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523
Alabama
#19
Chose this one because of the camera mans commentary.... "fucking white boys maaaaaann...." I guess about 10-12 shots.

[video=youtube_share;PrziUcKEHeo]http://youtu.be/PrziUcKEHeo[/video]

Hear this at the end."That wasn't a justified kill.. at all"

Sgt and above have tasers. Cars have riot shields in the back. Didn't seem like they could contain this guy to use them anyway even if they did take the time to get them out. I can't remember us ever using rubber bullets. Seems like they did what they had to.
That many shots is pretty easy to understand. It looked like 6 to 8 officers on foot by the time the shooting happened and if he charged and they all fired out of instinct, that would be 6 to 8 shots if all shot once not accounting for some of them firing twice quickly. Most of them might have gone for a disable shot, all it would take was one guy putting a shot on target for the kill shot.
 

Ballbuster1

In The Danger Zone...
Wackbag Staff
Aug 26, 2002
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Your house, behind the couch
#20
Obviously the racist police harmed the innocent man who was just
practicing his right to bear knives. Fire everyone and sue the city!
 

KRSOne

Registered User
Dec 8, 2011
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#21