North Dakota Voting To End Property Taxes

KRSOne

Registered User
Dec 8, 2011
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#1
ND weighs becoming 1st state to end property taxes

By DALE WETZEL Associated Press , The Associated Press - BISMARCK, N.D.

Voters were to decide Tuesday whether to make North Dakota the first state to eliminate local property taxes, but a businessman who helped put the constitutional amendment on the ballot conceded it could be walloped at the polls.

Under Measure 2, property taxes would be eliminated and the Legislature would be ordered to supply replacement revenue to the local governments that depend on them. The state Tax Department estimated the needed sum would be more than $800 million annually.
No state ever has eliminated local property taxes, according to the National Conference of State Legislatures.

Mike Kramer, 57, of Bismarck, would like North Dakota to be the first.
"When I pay off my mortgage, I want to be able to have clear title to my property just the way you can have clear title on your vehicle," the contractor said while stopping to vote early Tuesday at the Bismarck Civic Center. "I'm willing to pay another sort of tax to make that up, but I don't like the idea of property taxes."

Robert Hale, a Minot attorney and businessman instrumental in pushing the measure, said he remained hopeful despite two public opinion polls that showed the amendment going down to a "crushing" defeat.
"I am not an optimist unrealistically. I just have listened to too many people say they are supporting us," Hale said. "I hope the people who have been frustrated with what's going on vote that way ... I put the time and effort into it for that reason, and so did everyone else who (backed the measure)."

The issue was one of several politically charged measures on the ballot drawing a steady flow of voters as soon as polls began to open at 7 a.m., said election inspector Darryl Dolan. He estimated the civic center was seeing about 100 people per hour.
"It's been a real good turnout. There's good flow," he said.

Cass County Auditor Mike Montplaisir said he expected up to 30,000 people in the state's most populous county to vote, topping the previous high of 26,000 for a primary election. More than 43,000 North Dakotans had voted before Tuesday using absentee ballots and early voting procedures set up in some counties, according to the secretary of state's office.

The property tax proposal gained currency in part because of North Dakota's economic prosperity, fueled by an energy boom that has left the state treasury with surpluses greater than $1 billion. The state has had the nation's lowest unemployment rate, and the measure's supporters say North Dakota government could afford to replace the roughly $812 million per year generated by local property taxes.
But Scott Neumann, a 59-year-old high school orchestra teacher in Bismarck, was skeptical of that and voted against eliminating local property taxes.

"If we abolish it, where will the money come from?" asked Neumann, who rode a recumbent bicycle several miles in bright purple tights to a polling place at the United Tribes Technical College.
Gary Reile, 70, of Bismarck, had another reason for voting against the measure: "Property tax is one of my only tax deductions that I get anymore. I want to be able to keep that," he said.
Legislators predicted if voters endorsed the amendment, Gov. Jack Dalrymple would have to quickly call a special session to deal with the aftermath.

"The more that people understand what this measure is all about, the more they seem to reject it," said Andy Peterson, president of the North Dakota Chamber of Commerce, which opposed the amendment. "We're hearing from folks who think their property taxes are too high, but they agree this is not the answer."

The amendment was put on the ballot by a citizens' group called Empower the Taxpayer, led by Hale and Charlene Nelson, a Casselton activist. More than 27,000 North Dakota voters signed petitions demanding the vote.

A decade ago, Nelson led a successful effort to repeal changes in North Dakota's bank privacy laws, approved by the 2001 Legislature, which allowed banks to sell their customers' information without obtaining written permission.

Hale has fought what he says is the city of Minot's illegal spending of taxpayers' money to subsidize private businesses, which he said often do not keep job-creation promises they make in exchange for the aid.

However, the amendment raised concerns among a diverse coalition of organizations, from North Dakota's Chamber of Commerce to the state Farmers Union and groups representing local governments, public employees and school teachers. They organized a vocal, well-financed campaign, arguing the measure would transfer budget power from local governments to the Legislature, and leave questions about which local projects lawmakers would have to pay for.

"We had all these diverse groups that came together and said, `Listen, this is bad for North Dakota,'" Anderson said.

In February, Hale, Nelson and Empower the Taxpayer sued Tax Commissioner Cory Fong, four state legislators and other public officials, claiming they were violating North Dakota laws by using taxpayer money to spread false information about the measure's impact.
A district judge dismissed the lawsuit, and the North Dakota Supreme Court upheld the action last week. The justices ruled unanimously that private citizens could not sue to enforce the campaign laws in question; that job, they concluded, must be left to prosecutors.
No more SWAT teams murdering you or making you homeless for not paying your rent to the state? Sounds nice.
 

JoeyDVDZ

That's MR. MOJO, Motherfucker!
Aug 20, 2004
29,651
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#2
Now this is something I think we can all agree on.
 

Bluestreak

This space intentionally left blank.
Sep 27, 2007
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Mawl-din, MA
#3
I am now 100% convinced Kirk is a sock account whose sole purpose is to troll.
 

MetalBender

I like fistables.
Dec 20, 2009
1,308
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New Orleans....Iowa
#4
Mike Kramer is an idiot if he thinks having the title to his car means it's not taxed. Unless he doesn't keep license and registration on it.
 

BIV

I'm Biv Dick Black, the Over Poster.
Apr 22, 2002
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#5
A reasonable story...made sound looney by the hand of Kirk.
 

Ballbuster1

In The Danger Zone...
Wackbag Staff
Aug 26, 2002
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#6
I'm not buying it. The government never takes their hand out of your pocket.
They'll get fucked one way or another. Nobody rides for free.
 

mascan42

Registered User
Aug 26, 2002
19,034
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#7
I'm not buying it. The government never takes their hand out of your pocket.
They'll get fucked one way or another. Nobody rides for free.
And apparently the fine citizens of ND have no problem with that:
"I'm willing to pay another sort of tax to make that up, but I don't like the idea of property taxes."
 

CousinDave

Registered User
Dec 11, 2007
25,297
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#8
This is a bad idea

Get rid of the income tax not the property tax
 

Hate & Discontent

Yo, homie. Is that my briefcase?
Aug 22, 2005
15,794
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#11
Is the taxes made up in other areas?
Most of it is made up by bed taxes from hotels and condos, and a reasonable (6-7.5%, depending on county) sales tax. Property taxes in our area are supposed to be pretty reasonable, and we don't pay property tax on cars, either.
 

KRSOne

Registered User
Dec 8, 2011
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#13
SWAT teams evicting homeowners? Making shit up again I see.
You can google swat teams evicting homeowners and get pages of articles.

[video=youtube;e2axN1zsZno]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=e2axN1zsZno[/video]
 

NuttyJim

Registered User
Feb 18, 2006
14,114
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#14
You can google swat teams evicting homeowners and get pages of articles.

[video=youtube;e2axN1zsZno]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=e2axN1zsZno[/video]
Ok, what does that have to do with the possible passage of a law? Don't start acting like this has only started happening. For as long as I can remember Sheriffs Departments took over properties. Stick to the topic at hand, stop the chicken little act.

And for the record, you're a home owner by title. Unless you buy your home outright the bank or mortgage company owns your home.
 

NuttyJim

Registered User
Feb 18, 2006
14,114
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#16
Elimination of property taxes would stop forclosures based on tax liens.
What about evictions due to failure to pay mortgage? Failure to pay rent? Failure to pay HOA fees?
 

DanaReevesLungs

I can keep rhythm with no metronome...
Donator
Jun 9, 2005
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#17
You can google swat teams evicting homeowners and get pages of articles.

[video=youtube;e2axN1zsZno]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=e2axN1zsZno[/video]
That's not SWAT teams, you dick. That's just regular deputies evicting people. Now had you said police evicting homeowners, then I wouldn't have said a peep. But instead being the overly-dramatic douchebag that you are you had to spice it up with saying SWAT teams. No one is crushing down doors to evict people out of their homes. You're too stupid to realize you'd hate yourself if you took a step back and understood you're an exact representation of who you make fun of.
 

Don the Radio Guy

G-Bb-A-D
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Mar 30, 2006
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#18
What about evictions due to failure to pay mortgage? Failure to pay rent? Failure to pay HOA fees?
Failing to pay mortgages and rent are obviously legit reasons for eviction. Anyone dumb enough to agree to an HOA also deserves to be thrown out if they don't pony up.
 

MayrMeninoCrash

Liberal Psycopath
Dec 9, 2004
24,642
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Loveland, CO
#19
Let me know when a state someone would want to live in offers to eliminate property taxes.

North Dakota should be like Alaska and pay people to live in that shithole.
 

Bluestreak

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Sep 27, 2007
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Mawl-din, MA
#22
How about just a usage tax?
You're only taxed on the money you spend to buy or use.
You buy a car? Taxed on the sale. Taxed on the gas. Pay tolls.
Go out to eat? Taxed on a higher scale than a lower tax on groceries.
Only tax your money ONCE.
None of this nonsense of getting taxed at least 2 times on your income.
 

VMS

Victim of high standards and low personal skills.
Apr 26, 2006
10,309
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#23
Let me know when a state someone would want to live in offers to eliminate property taxes.

North Dakota should be like Alaska and pay people to live in that shithole.
Actually, PA has been talking on and off about this for decades. It hasn't gotten anywhere, obviously, but it's something that's been bandied about for a while.

Obviously, in the business I'm in, I like it on a personal level. Philosophically, I'm for it: raise sales taxes and make taxes a function of consumption. As a matter of practical public policy... it's a tough sell.

But if ND went this way, I'd be make serious moves to acquire rental properties in that state. Abesntee landlord for the win.
 
Dec 8, 2004
49,441
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Maine
#24
That's not SWAT teams, you dick. That's just regular deputies evicting people. Now had you said police evicting homeowners, then I wouldn't have said a peep. But instead being the overly-dramatic douchebag that you are you had to spice it up with saying SWAT teams. No one is crushing down doors to evict people out of their homes. You're too stupid to realize you'd hate yourself if you took a step back and understood you're an exact representation of who you make fun of.
Looks like the same SWAT team used when the FDA fast roped from black helicopters to seize that unpasteurized milk in CA...