Nvidia & ATi refuse to support Vista based Laptops

HumpX

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Oct 30, 2004
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#1
They seem to be throwing their mobile chipset customers under the bus. I found myself re-reading a few sentences simply because I have a hard time believing they are doing something like this to customers. It seems illegal almost.

Go here for the full article.
 

Picklestyle

Registered User
Jun 21, 2007
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#2
THis is not new. ATI and Nvidia have never provided direct support for OEM mobilty chips. End Users have always had to contact the provider or manufacturer for driver updates or product support.

I am not sure if you understand this or not. But 99% of the hardware that is in a laptop and some desktops that are mass produced have been tattooed with manufacturers id and not all drivers (from ati and nvdia directly) will work with that hardware even though it is the same hardware that you can purchase of the shelf, because of this, Nvidia and ATI have no obligation legally to provide support for that product, including drivers.

Crazy isnt it?
 

HumpX

Character Assassin
Oct 30, 2004
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#3
THis is not new. ATI and Nvidia have never provided direct support for OEM mobilty chips. End Users have always had to contact the provider or manufacturer for driver updates or product support.

I am not sure if you understand this or not. But 99% of the hardware that is in a laptop and some desktops that are mass produced have been tattooed with manufacturers id and not all drivers (from ati and nvdia directly) will work with that hardware even though it is the same hardware that you can purchase of the shelf, because of this, Nvidia and ATI have no obligation legally to provide support for that product, including drivers.

Crazy isnt it?
Maybe I'm reading it wrong but doesn't this apply to their retail product (mobility card etc) as well? Its insane.
 

d0uche_n0zzle

**Negative_Creep**
Sep 15, 2004
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#4
Basically, if you own a laptop with Vista you're fucked if the video shits the bed.

:mad4: Just fucking wonderful. :mad4:
 

Sinn Fein

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#5
THis is not new. ATI and Nvidia have never provided direct support for OEM mobilty chips. End Users have always had to contact the provider or manufacturer for driver updates or product support.

I am not sure if you understand this or not. But 99% of the hardware that is in a laptop and some desktops that are mass produced have been tattooed with manufacturers id and not all drivers (from ati and nvdia directly) will work with that hardware even though it is the same hardware that you can purchase of the shelf, because of this, Nvidia and ATI have no obligation legally to provide support for that product, including drivers.

Crazy isnt it?
It certainly is. Back in the 56K modem days when there was K56 and X2 protocols and no standard, a friend had a modem that was made by USR, looked idential to my Sportster but was sold by some other no-name company. By the time the 56K standard came out, the no-name company wasn't around anymore. The firmware download from USR wouldn't work with this modem because of the different manufacturer ID. I had to decompile the fucking program and change the ID to match this other modem, and then recompile it so I could flash this modem to the 56K standard.
 

Picklestyle

Registered User
Jun 21, 2007
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#6
Maybe I'm reading it wrong but doesn't this apply to their retail product (mobility card etc) as well? Its insane.


no all chips in laptops are purchased by a 3rd party then they create the driver and install into the system. You cant walk into a computer store and buy a Radeon Mobility x200 or similar off the shelf. Therefore, this takes all responsibility legally from the creator (ati/Nvidia) to provide support since the equipment has been altered to work exclusively with that laptop.
 

THE FEZ MAN

as a matter of fact i dont have 5$
Aug 23, 2002
41,776
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#7
what a fucking joke, i hate the fact that computer company's and soft were company's see to have no obligation to make anything work, i had a problem years ago with an hp computer and hp printer working together, in the end they replaced the mother board in my computer but refused to make the printer work before they left, the entire reason i wanted the computer fixed was to make the printer work, i finally figured it out but what a pain in the ass computer support for the novice has always sucked
 

HumpX

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Oct 30, 2004
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#8
what a fucking joke, i hate the fact that computer company's and soft were company's see to have no obligation to make anything work, i had a problem years ago with an hp computer and hp printer working together, in the end they replaced the mother board in my computer but refused to make the printer work before they left, the entire reason i wanted the computer fixed was to make the printer work, i finally figured it out but what a pain in the ass computer support for the novice has always sucked

OMG, I bought a HP back in '98 that had this combination sound card and 56k modem solution. Obviously made to cut corners on production costs.

The thing was a disaster. It caused so many issues with the system HP stonewalled customers of the model that used it. They actually shut down the knowledge base forums that covered the model numbers for about 6 months. The bastards NEVER admitted to the problem and it became the number one reason why I so despise off-the-rack systems like Dell & HP to this day. No fucking accountability. They should've been brought up on fraud charges IMO.
 

Hate & Discontent

Yo, homie. Is that my briefcase?
Aug 22, 2005
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#9
OMG, I bought a HP back in '98 that had this combination sound card and 56k modem solution. Obviously made to cut corners on production costs.

The thing was a disaster. It caused so many issues with the system HP stonewalled customers of the model that used it. They actually shut down the knowledge base forums that covered the model numbers for about 6 months. The bastards NEVER admitted to the problem and it became the number one reason why I so despise off-the-rack systems like Dell & HP to this day. No fucking accountability. They should've been brought up on fraud charges IMO.
I had a system with one of those pieces of shit. NOTHING but problems. HP shipped me 2 replacements and the problems never went away.
 
Mar 15, 2004
10,416
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New Jersey
#10
Great. Another reason I'm not touching anthing with Vista in it.

That really does fucking suck for anyone buying a new laptop though. EVERYTHING comes preloaded with Vista these days.

And this driver problem means you can't wipe the hard drive and just install XP because you won't be able to get the proper drivers for it now.
 

Hate & Discontent

Yo, homie. Is that my briefcase?
Aug 22, 2005
15,777
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#11
ATI and nVidia are doing what they always have - leaving driver support up to the middleman. Its always been like that with mobile chipsets (at least to my knowledge). Now, in the past they may have done some background development work first, then gave that over to the middleware folks, but Ive only ever been able to get laptop graphics driver updates through the laptop manufacturer.
 

d0uche_n0zzle

**Negative_Creep**
Sep 15, 2004
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#12
Well, I sure hope I don't have any issues with the Toshiba/ Ultimate Vista, but just in case, I purchased the four year replacement plan.
 

Sinn Fein

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#13
I think this is going to be more of an issue if you try to upgrade an existing XP laptop to Vista. If there aren't drivers that work on the Vista CD, you're going to be SOL. It probably has more to do with them not wanting to invest any time (read: money) in drivers for older (legacy) products.
 
A

aberge30

Guest
#14
This isn't a real problem. How many people are actually trying to upgrade their laptops to vista? What would be the incentive? Everyone knows about the problems with drivers in general, so why would anyone take this risk? I also know that I should expect support from whoever made the friggin motherboard, the laptop manufacturer, not the designer of the chipset. The person writing this article is making this out to be more than it is.
 

Radioguy

Having it my way since '98
Aug 25, 2002
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#15
This reminds me of the (ongoing) backlash against Intel for refusing to release Vista compatible video drivers for their 900 series' chipsets, despite Vista betas running Aero on them. They're angry with MS, and hurting laptop owners in the process.

In a way I can't blame them so much, because since the time MS began to milk its "certified" and "compatible" labels for cash, like driver signing, companies have had the squeeze put on them. This is just an escalation.
 

roche

i am lame
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May 28, 2004
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#16
I think this is going to be more of an issue if you try to upgrade an existing XP laptop to Vista. If there aren't drivers that work on the Vista CD, you're going to be SOL. It probably has more to do with them not wanting to invest any time (read: money) in drivers for older (legacy) products.
This is exactly the case. This is nothing new. The industry has been doing this for ages.

If you buy a HP desktop with XP on it, HP is only going to support the system as they sold it to you, with XP on it. If they HP comes with an ATI video card in it, ATI will not support it as it is a OEM card. You have to go to HP for that. If you purchase a new ATI card at Fry's, ATI will support it in the HP, but if you ever call HP they might refuse to support you unless you replace the original card with the new one.
 

Sinn Fein

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#18
This isn't a real problem. How many people are actually trying to upgrade their laptops to vista? What would be the incentive? Everyone knows about the problems with drivers in general, so why would anyone take this risk? I also know that I should expect support from whoever made the friggin motherboard, the laptop manufacturer, not the designer of the chipset. The person writing this article is making this out to be more than it is.
How many upgrade versions of XP do you think Microsoft has sold? Do some research and come back to me. They are gonna sell similar numbers of the upgrade versions of Vista. Alot of non-tech users are gonna get pushed into Vista either by means of marketing or some dummy working at Best Buy or a similar retailer.
 

Sinn Fein

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#19
This is exactly the case. This is nothing new. The industry has been doing this for ages.

If you buy a HP desktop with XP on it, HP is only going to support the system as they sold it to you, with XP on it. If they HP comes with an ATI video card in it, ATI will not support it as it is a OEM card. You have to go to HP for that. If you purchase a new ATI card at Fry's, ATI will support it in the HP, but if you ever call HP they might refuse to support you unless you replace the original card with the new one.
Exactly. I am typing this on an HP desktop PC that was originally a 1.7 GHZ Celeron w/128MB of RAM, and a Maxtor 30gb hard drive. It's now got a 2.8 GHZ P4, 1GB of RAM, a 256MB ATI Radeon video card in place of the onboard video, a wireless NIC, different optical drives, etc. I'm on my own. :)
 

Bobobie

Registered User
Oct 1, 2005
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#20
How many upgrade versions of XP do you think Microsoft has sold? Do some research and come back to me. They are gonna sell similar numbers of the upgrade versions of Vista. Alot of non-tech users are gonna get pushed into Vista either by means of marketing or some dummy working at Best Buy or a similar retailer.
It's simple common sense. Most users are not geeks.
The average joe isn't going to upgrade unless they start getting a lot of software problems because they are running an old OS. Most people don't add anything new to their computers. They use it until they upgrade to the next one. Even the Geeks are holding off. The main bulk of their sales are OEM versions, not stand-alone versions.
The only reason I installed Vista was because I had an actual need for it.