Nyt: Mccain's Birthplace In Canal Zone Raises Eligibility Questions...

Sinn Fein

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Aug 29, 2002
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#1
This is up on Drudge. What pure horseshit... No story yet, but look at what we have here... Again, it's the New York Times...

From Wiki:

McCain was born on August 29, 1936, at the Coco Solo Air Base in the then-American-controlled Panama Canal Zone[2] to Navy officer John S. "Jack" McCain, Jr. (1911–1981) and Roberta (Wright) McCain (b. 1912).
 

Jimmy's Dignity

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#2
Fucking retards. A child born to American citizens, anywhere in the world, is an American citizen. Period.


I really hope Hillary wins OH & TX...just to make it close enough for her to steal the nomination via the Superdelegates. If that doesn't disenfranchise the Democratic voters, nothing will
 

Vyce

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Feb 11, 2006
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#3
Democrats must be a bit more nervous about McCain's chances against Obama / Hillary than they're actually letting on if they're starting this sort of shit early.
 

TheDrip

I'm bi-winning.
Jan 9, 2006
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#4
Um, besides the parentage part, doesn't being born to a US serviceman living on a US base, in a US controlled region sort of make it a moot topic?
 

Hudson

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Fucking retards. A child born to American citizens, anywhere in the world, is an American citizen. Period.


I really hope Hillary wins OH & TX...just to make it close enough for her to steal the nomination via the Superdelegates. If that doesn't disenfranchise the Democratic voters, nothing will
Everybody knows that..didn't they see Dragon?
 

Butter Nuggets

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May 29, 2006
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#6
Unsurprisingly, the NYT just wants to smear Republicans regardless of cause. They fear no repercussions because even though its completely clear that McCain is a citizen the NYT somehow retains its prestige.

U.S. Code in the hizzy

§ 1403. Persons born in the Canal Zone or Republic of Panama on or after February 26, 1904

(a) Any person born in the Canal Zone on or after February 26, 1904, and whether before or after the effective date of this chapter, whose father or mother or both at the time of the birth of such person was or is a citizen of the United States, is declared to be a citizen of the United States.
(b) Any person born in the Republic of Panama on or after February 26, 1904, and whether before or after the effective date of this chapter, whose father or mother or both at the time of the birth of such person was or is a citizen of the United States employed by the Government of the United States or by the Panama Railroad Company, or its successor in title, is declared to be a citizen of the United States.
 

MrAbovePar

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Mar 14, 2005
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#7
Yea..but they're quibbling that "declared" means "naturalized" which means inelligible.
 

LiddyRules

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Jun 1, 2005
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#8
But that only works for people being born after 1904, what about McCain?

(Get it, he's old.)
 

VMS

Victim of high standards and low personal skills.
Apr 26, 2006
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#9
Citizenship issues are... interesting.

There's ZERO question as to McCain's citizenship: he's an American citizen.

There are MUCH trickier questions out there. Like my soon-to-be-born niece. My sister (natural born American citizen) and her husband (natural born French citizen) are having the child in a couple of weeks in Beijing. Technically, since my sister is ethnically Chinese, she's considered an "overseas Chinese" within China, which is a kind of shadowy quasi-citizenship. My sister could apply for Chinese citizenship and be granted it pretty easily, which would be all kinds of hell and damnation.

As things stand, the child will be born in China but have dual French and American citizenship. Tricky part? Non-citizens in China must leave the country for a week or two every year to renew their "tourist visas", since technically there no foreigners are allowed permanent residency. So a <1 year old baby is going to have to go on vacation outside of China for at least a week. Which is fine, since my sister is planning on bringing the family back to the US for Christmas this year, but still...
 

Fr. Dougal

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Feb 17, 2004
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Fucking retards. A child born to American citizens, anywhere in the world, is an American citizen. Period.
I was told to write this story today. (I know. I hate it. I need a career change.)

The issue isn't his citizenship. He's absolutely a citizen because both his parents were citizens. Plus, Congress ruled way back that children born to servicemen in Panama are immediately citizens.

But that's not the issue. The issue is that McCain wasn't born on U.S. soil. Or that's the debate at least.

As much as it pains me to do research for the other side, here it is.

In the U.S. Constitution:

Article. II. Section 1.

No person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President; neither shall any Person be eligible to that Office who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty-five Years, and been fourteen Years a Resident within the United States.
Now the issue is: what does "natural born" mean? Some say it means U.S. soil only.

The response is that McCain was born on a U.S. base, so he's covered. But the State Department says this:

7 FAM 1116.1-4
Not Included in the Meaning of "In the United States"
(TL:CON-64; 11-30-95)

c. Despite widespread popular belief, U.S. military installations abroad and U.S. diplomatic or consular facilities are not part of the United States within the meaning of the 14th Amendment. A child born on the premises of such a facility is not subject to the jurisdiction of the United States and does not acquire U.S. citizenship by reason of birth.
http://www.state.gov/documents/organization/86755.pdf
The thing is, this has come up before a few times, but never made it far enough for people to keep caring. (Barry Goldwater was born in Arizona before it was a state... Mitt Romney's dad was born in Mexico because the family wanted to be able to fuck 5 wives at once.)

When it comes down to it, I don't think anyone really, honestly thinks McCain is unqualified or inelligible. But the fact that McCain is a Republican means the haters will grasp onto this and run with it. The fact that the Times is dragging this up speaks volumes.

Actually... what McCain should do, is come out and say "You know what, fine. I wasn't born on U.S. soil, but I'm obviously qualified. So I ask Congress to pass an Amendment allowing citizens not born on this soil to become President. Look how progressive we would be if we changed this rule, allowing anyone who loves this Country to be It's president. Pass the Amendment and prove this Country doesn't discriminate."

That'll turn the tables on 'em. If anyone even so much as hesitates to vote YEA right away, it proves they're just out for themselves. And it'd rally even more people behind McCain. There's no way a vote on that would fail. It would be a win-win scenario for him.
 

Jimmy's Dignity

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Actually... what McCain should do, is come out and say "You know what, fine. I wasn't born on U.S. soil, but I'm obviously qualified. So I ask Congress to pass an Amendment allowing citizens not born on this soil to become President....


:icon_eek::icon_eek::icon_eek: :icon_eek::icon_eek::icon_eek: :icon_eek::icon_eek::icon_eek:​
 

VMS

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Actually... what McCain should do, is come out and say "You know what, fine. I wasn't born on U.S. soil, but I'm obviously qualified. So I ask Congress to pass an Amendment allowing citizens not born on this soil to become President. Look how progressive we would be if we changed this rule, allowing anyone who loves this Country to be It's president. Pass the Amendment and prove this Country doesn't discriminate."

That'll turn the tables on 'em. If anyone even so much as hesitates to vote YEA right away, it proves they're just out for themselves. And it'd rally even more people behind McCain. There's no way a vote on that would fail. It would be a win-win scenario for him.
Obviously, it'd take months if not years for an amendment to go through the state ratification process, but it'd be a pretty nice political move.
 

Ego

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Feb 15, 2005
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#13


:icon_eek::icon_eek::icon_eek: :icon_eek::icon_eek::icon_eek: :icon_eek::icon_eek::icon_eek:​
Nothing wrong with that picture. I'll bet Ant would love it, knowing the son of a Nazi was in our highest elected office.

7 FAM 1116.1-4
Not Included in the Meaning of "In the United States"
(TL:CON-64; 11-30-95)

c. Despite widespread popular belief, U.S. military installations abroad and U.S. diplomatic or consular facilities are not part of the United States within the meaning of the 14th Amendment. A child born on the premises of such a facility is not subject to the jurisdiction of the United States and does not acquire U.S. citizenship by reason of birth.
This was put in place to make sure that a foreign individual (a local citizen of whatever place such a situation would occur, a refugee, or someone trying to bamboozle asylum or de facto citizen status) couldn't use the excuse of just happening to give birth to a child while on ground we control to infer citizenship upon themselves. It's basically a stopgap measure to keep illegals from using that way to ride the gravy train of welfare programs we have in place here.
 

Arch Stanton

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Nov 22, 2004
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#14
Wow, they are really trying their best to self destruct at that paper. They may as well just come out and say what they are, like MSNBC has done. It worked for them, they are in 27 place right now.

Keep it up I say. This should enrage everyone.

Sad thing is, it appeals to the kool-aid drinking Moveon.org type that if a candidate on their side beat the living shit out of them, lit the house on fire with all pets and belongings in it, they would still campaign for them.
 
Jul 13, 2006
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#15
This is such a non-story. The man's parents were American citizens working for the Navy on US soil in Panama. We basically owned the Panama Canal until Jimmy Carter signed it over to the Panamanian government in '77.

This whole thing is moot. The man wasn't born to foreign nationals that immigrated to the US, which is why Arnold can never be president. It's not like McCain had to be naturalized.
 

MrAbovePar

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#16
I like the fact that they're telling every US soldier that their kids, if born abroad, are really foreigners.
 

Vyce

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#17
I like the fact that they're telling every US soldier that their kids, if born abroad, are really foreigners.
And that's why nothing is going to come of this.

Democrats don't want to open that can of worms. They already have the reputation of being anti-military, this certainly wouldn't do them any favors with our soldiers or with many Americans overall.
 

VMS

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#18
This whole thing is moot. The man wasn't born to foreign nationals that immigrated to the US, which is why Arnold can never be president.
Uhhhhhhhhhh... no. Arnold can never become President because HE was born as a foreign national and became naturalized.

Someone born to immigrants parents in the US is born an American citizen, regardless of the parents status, and is just as eligible for the Presidency as you are.

For example, ME. My parents came here on my dad's student visa, I was born, they got green cards, and eventually US citizenship, but the only thing that matters with regard to MY citizenship is that I was born in Murray, Kentucky in the mid-70s.
 

Vyce

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Feb 11, 2006
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#19
Uhhhhhhhhhh... no. Arnold can never become President because HE was born as a foreign national and became naturalized.

Someone born to immigrants parents in the US is born an American citizen, regardless of the parents status, and is just as eligible for the Presidency as you are.

For example, ME. My parents came here on my dad's student visa, I was born, they got green cards, and eventually US citizenship, but the only thing that matters with regard to MY citizenship is that I was born in Murray, Kentucky in the mid-70s.
What filthy non-white minority are you, VMS? ;) :action-sm
 

SuperGolfer

I got it from a negro
Nov 6, 2004
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#21
I was always under the belief that being born on a U.S. overseas base counted as American soil.

This is such quibbling bullshit.
 

VMS

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#22
What filthy non-white minority are you, VMS? ;) :action-sm
Chinese. I've got a little dick, a big brain, and I'll own you someday.
:action-sm
 

kimothee

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#23
Hey, there's no chance in hell that I will vote for McCain, but I even think this "issue" is pure horseshit. I'm actually thinking it's more of the kool-aid Neocon world which is coming up with this one since they seem to be more against McCain than anyone.
 

VMS

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Hey, there's no chance in hell that I will vote for McCain, but I even think this "issue" is pure horseshit. I'm actually thinking it's more of the kool-aid Neocon world which is coming up with this one since they seem to be more against McCain than anyone.
Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight. The New York Times is a neocon paper. Sure.

What would be a "centrist" paper, then? Pravda? The Vegan Socialist Times?