Obama is not Muslim...

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Chapel

Complete dickhead
Oct 4, 2004
308
#1
They talked today about Obama being a Muslim for about 5 minutes today on the show and Travis 'confirmed' that he was...

how hard is it for them to open up a wiki article...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barack_obama

He's Christian.

He describes his FATHER as being Raised Muslim, but a confirmed Atheist when he met his mother.

Now, I'm just curious... a CALLER eventually called... this happened some other time as well.

Then Travis comes up with some kind of 'conversion' thing?

Travis, admit your wrong and just google him...
 

mendozathejew

Registered User
Mar 12, 2005
0
#2
I agree, but there are people, some who knew or grew up with him, who say he was basically a self described non practicing muslim when he lived outside the US

by Daniel Pipes
FrontPageMagazine.com
January 7, 2008

In a recent analysis, "Was Barack Obama a Muslim?" I surveyed available evidence and found it suggests "Obama was born a Muslim to a non-practicing Muslim father and for some years had a reasonably Muslim upbringing under the auspices of his Indonesian step-father." In response, David Brock's organization, Media Matters for America (MMfA), which calls itself a "progressive research and information center dedicated to comprehensively monitoring, analyzing, and correcting conservative misinformation in the U.S. media," has criticized one of my sources of information.

MMfA contends in "Daniel Pipes relied on disputed LA Times article to revive Obama-Muslim falsehood," that "key aspects" of a March 16, 2007, Los Angeles Times article I quoted were later challenged by another newspaper account, "History of schooling distorted," by Kim Barker in the Chicago Tribune on March 25.

Falsehood? That's a strong word.

To assess MMfA's claim, let's review its preferred article and examine what Barker has to say on four topics related to Obama's Indonesian years, 1967-71:

1. His attendance at a Catholic school;
2. His attendance at a public school;
3. His step-father, Lolo Soetoro; and
4. His friend, Zulfan Adi.

To start with, about the Catholic school, Fransiskus Strada Asisia, which Obama attended 1967-70 (words in square brackets are added by me):

Interviews with dozens of former classmates, teachers, neighbors and friends show that Obama was not a regular practicing Muslim when he was in Indonesia, despite being listed as a Muslim on the registration form for the Catholic school, Strada Asisia, where he attended 1st through 3rd grades. At the time, the school most likely registered children based on the religion of their fathers, said [Israella Pareira] Darmawan, Obama's former [1st-grade] teacher. Because Soetoro was a Muslim, Obama was listed as a Muslim, she said.

The enrollment form from the Catholic school, which has been cited as evidence that Obama was a Muslim in Indonesia [including by the Los Angeles Times], also was rife with errors. It listed Obama as an Indonesian, listed his previous school incorrectly and failed to list his mother, Ann, at all.

Barack Obama with his public school classmates in Indonesia.
About Obama's time at a public elementary school, 1970-71, variously known as the Sekolah Dasar Nasional Menteng No. 1 or the Basuki school, Barker writes:

When Obama attended 4th grade in 1971, Muslim children spent two hours a week studying Islam, and Christian children spent those two hours learning about the Christian religion.

During a recent visit to this public school, Barker found that

Weekly religious classes are required for all students, whether Muslims, Christians or Hindus, under the government curriculum. A new shiny mosque is in the corner of the courtyard. "The Muslims learn about Islam, prayer and religious activity," said Hardi Priyono, the vice principal for curriculum. "And for the Christians, during the religious class, they also have a special room teaching Christianity. It's always been like that."

About Obama's step-father, Lolo Soetoro and his religiosity, Barker writes:

In their first neighborhood, Obama occasionally followed his stepfather to the mosque for Friday prayers, a few neighbors said. But Soetoro usually was too busy working, first for the Indonesian army and later for a Western oil company. "Sometimes Lolo went to the mosque to pray, but he rarely socialized with people," said Fermina Katarina Sinaga, Obama's 3rd-grade teacher at the Catholic school, who lived near the family. "Rarely, Barry [a nickname for Barack] went to the mosque with Lolo."

Barker learned from his friends and family that Lolo Soetoro, who died in 1987, was "much more of a free spirit than a devout Muslim" and "hardly the image of a pious Muslim."

His nephew, Sonny Trisulo, 49, said Soetoro always liked women and alcohol. One of his health problems was a failing liver. "He loved drinking, was a smart and warm person, the naughtiest one in the family," Trisulo recalled.

As for Zulfan Adi, cited in the Los Angeles Times piece:

Zulfan Adi, a former neighborhood playmate of Obama's who has been cited in news reports as saying Obama regularly attended Friday prayers with Soetoro, told the Tribune he was not certain about that when pressed about his recollections. He only knew Obama for a few months, during 1970, when his family moved to the neighborhood.

Does any of the above information from the Chicago Tribune article refute my analysis, as MMfA contends? It raises questions about two details in the Los Angeles Times account (the accuracy of the Catholic school's registration form and the reliability of Zulfan Adi as a source on Obama). But on the larger issue of Obama's religious practices during his Jakarta years, it confirms the Times account. Note in particular three excerpts from Barker's article:

* "Interviews with dozens of former classmates, teachers, neighbors and friends show that Obama was not a regular practicing Muslim when he was in Indonesia" – implying he was an irregularly practicing Muslim.
* "Obama occasionally followed his stepfather to the mosque for Friday prayers, a few neighbors said" – confirming that he did pray in the mosque.
* "Obama's 3rd-grade teacher at the Catholic school, who lived near the family [said that] ‘Rarely, Barry went to the mosque with Lolo'" – confirming that Obama attended mosque services.

All this matters, for if Obama once was a Muslim, he is now what Islamic law calls a murtadd (apostate), an ex-Muslim converted to another religion who must be executed. Were he elected president of the United States, this status, clearly, would have large potential implications for his relationship with the Muslim world.

In sum: Obama was an irregularly practicing Muslim who rarely or occasionally prayed with his step-father in a mosque. This precisely substantiates my statement that he "for some years had a reasonably Muslim upbringing under the auspices of his Indonesian step-father."

Therefore, what MMfA calls the "Obama-Muslim falsehood" is in fact confirmed by both articles as truthful and accurate.

Calling this a falsehood is in itself a falsehood.
 

Chapel

Complete dickhead
Oct 4, 2004
308
#4
everything I've read shows that he raised by an atheist family and found religion (christianity) on his own.

To be honest, I'm just pissed of having to listen to 5 minutes of them talking about something that was wrong... I'm sure they felt the same way. It sucks to have misleading information and doing a commentary based on incorrect information
 

topher520

learnings for queers
Jul 5, 2006
198
#5
The thing that disturbs me is that I've never heard either the first or last name before in my life. have you ever gone to school with a Barack or an Obama ? right there tells me stay home on election day and pull my prick....wait..its what I do anyway.
 

Zillax0rz

Fagor, King of Fags, Ruler of Fagonia
Jun 1, 2006
0
#6
Who gives a shit if he's Muslim, Christian, Jewish or a fucking Scientologist. It's all the same dogma bullshit and should be feared equally.
 

watsonnostaw

Registered User
May 6, 2005
0
#7
muslim or not, black or not, do you want him to be President?

face it the USA is doomed regardless of who wins in November
 

Brokeback Jimmy

Laundering your Swastikas since 1912
Jan 30, 2006
0
#8
Obama o-shama. I don't care if he prays to a disco ball.

Mr. Fabrasham....

I will not vote for a caddy.

I will not vote for a caddy.
 

BroGonzo

In between shots of bourbon
Jul 3, 2006
0
#9
Ah, Wackbag... again proving itself to be the Alabama of the Internets...

FYI: The Office of the President is a secular position, and Article VI of the Constitution forbids any religious test for it or any other public office.

I'd much rather have someone like Obama in office than a bible-thumping Jesus-Nazi like Huckabee -- or Paul R. Nelson.
 

cigarsandscotch

Smoke and drink up.
Jan 13, 2005
523
#10
Who gives a shit if he's Muslim, Christian, Jewish or a fucking Scientologist. It's all the same dogma bullshit and should be feared equally.
Ehhh, there aren't a whole lot of Christians, Jews or Scientologists strapping bombs to themselves in the name of their God or living like it is 400 BC.
 
Apr 29, 2007
166
#11
More bullshit articles. I'm not exactly a Ron Paul supporter, but these articles are written by the same kind of people who made the Vince Foster accusations ten years ago.
 

KOTT

Registered User
Feb 19, 2007
0
#13
Ah, Wackbag... again proving itself to be the Alabama of the Internets...

FYI: The Office of the President is a secular position, and Article VI of the Constitution forbids any religious test for it or any other public office.

I'd much rather have someone like Obama in office than a bible-thumping Jesus-Nazi like Huckabee -- or Paul R. Nelson.
qft
 

norton23

Opie And Anthony Always Win In The End
Dec 1, 2002
0
#14
Ah, Wackbag... again proving itself to be the Alabama of the Internets...

FYI: The Office of the President is a secular position, and Article VI of the Constitution forbids any religious test for it or any other public office.

I'd much rather have someone like Obama in office than a bible-thumping Jesus-Nazi like Huckabee -- or Paul R. Nelson.

Don't be a ni##er









:icon_mrgr
 

moegolden

Perv-switch toggler
Oct 3, 2004
226
#15
To be honest, I'm just pissed of having to listen to 5 minutes of them talking about something that was wrong... I'm sure they felt the same way. It sucks to have misleading information and doing a commentary based on incorrect information
That's my biggest problem here. As soon as I first heard the guy's name years ago, I looked this up.

What if his name was "Steve Jones"?
 

zerofischer

a reading from the book of Bennington
Nov 18, 2002
316
#17
Ehhh, there aren't a whole lot of Christians, Jews or Scientologists strapping bombs to themselves in the name of their God or living like it is 400 BC.
yeah because christians have never done any sort of violence against people who don't agree with their religion..
 

mendozathejew

Registered User
Mar 12, 2005
0
#18
I dont have any problem with Obama's past in Indonesia or a kinda muslim father. but I think it will get brought up in the coming months, and just the mention of it will have an effect
 

nikoloslvy

I wear my sunglasses at night...Anyone want fries?
Donator
May 5, 2003
753
#20
yeah because christians have never done any sort of violence against people who don't agree with their religion..
this statement and attitude is quite disturbing.

comparing Christianity's past sins to todays islmaic threat excuses no one.are there christens today blowing themselvs up?...no.every christen will tell you hes srry for his religions sins...o.k? jesus.

how dose this lessen the threat of islamic suicide bombers TODAY?
what have you contributed to this discussion? what is the point of this comparison? there are NO HOMICIDAL CHRISTENS ON THE SAME LEVEL AS THE AMOUNT(% WISE) OF VIOLENT MUSLIMS IN TODAYS AGE.

back on topic...

http://www.americanthinker.com/2008/01/obamas_alinsky_jujitsu.html


[FONT=times new roman,times] Obama also appears to have mastered the playbook used by her own political teacher,

(http://www.americanthinker.com/2007/10/hillary_soros_alinsky_and_rush.html)

the legendary amoral guru of left wing activism, Saul Alinksy.
[/FONT]

[FONT=times new roman,times]Hillary has met not only her match in Alinsky tactics, she has met the master of bloodless socialist revolution, in my opinion.[/FONT]

[FONT=times new roman,times]Obama's Alinsky Lessons[/FONT]

[FONT=times new roman,times]Barack Obama had just graduated from Columbia and was looking for a job. Some white leftists were looking for someone who could recruit in a black neighborhood in the south side of Chicago.[/FONT]

[FONT=times new roman,times]Obama answered a help-wanted ad for a position as a community organizer for the Developing Communities Project (DCP) of the Calumet Community Religious Conference (CCRC) in Chicago. Obama was 24 years old, unmarried, very accustomed to a vagabond existence, and according to his memoir, searching for a genuine African-American community.[/FONT]

[FONT=times new roman,times]Both the CCRC and the DCP were built on the Alinsky model of community agitation, wherein paid organizers learned how to "rub raw the sores of discontent," in Alinsky's words.[/FONT]

[FONT=times new roman,times]One of Obama's early mentors in the Alinsky method was Mike Kruglik, who had this to say to an [/FONT][FONT=times new roman,times]Ryan Lizza

[/FONT][FONT=times new roman,times](http://www.discoverthenetworks.org/Articles/bobamasunlikelypoliticaledu.html)

of The New Republic, about Obama:
[/FONT]

[FONT=times new roman,times]"He was a natural, the undisputed master of agitation, who could engage a room full of recruiting targets in a rapid-fire Socratic dialogue, nudging them to admit that they were not living up to their own standards. As with the panhandler, he could be aggressive and confrontational. With probing, sometimes personal questions, he would pinpoint the source of pain in their lives, tearing down their egos just enough before dangling a carrot of hope that they could make things better."[/FONT]
[FONT=times new roman,times]The agitator's job, according to Alinsky, is first to bring folks to the "realization" that they are indeed miserable, that their misery is the fault of unresponsive governments or greedy corporations, then help them to bond together to demand what they deserve, and to make such an almighty stink that the dastardly governments and corporations will see imminent "self-interest" in granting whatever it is that will cause the harassment to cease.[/FONT]

[FONT=times new roman,times]In these methods, euphemistically labeled "community organizing," Obama had a four-year education, which he often says was the best education he ever got anywhere.[/FONT]

[FONT=times new roman,times]Is it any wonder, then, that Obama's Alinsky Jujitsu is making mincemeat of the woman who merely interviewed Alinsky, wrote about him, and spent the next 30 years in corporate law and in the lap of taxpayer-funded luxury in government mansions?[/FONT]

[FONT=times new roman,times]Obama Not Starry-Eyed Like His Followers[/FONT]

[FONT=times new roman,times]Alinsky considered himself a realist above all, the ultimate pragmatist. As a confirmed atheist, Alinsky believed that the here and now is all there is, and therefore had no qualms about assorted versions of morality in the pursuit of worldly power. He didn't coddle his radical acolytes or encourage their bourgeois distinctions between good and evil when it came to transferring power from the Haves to the Have Nots. Alinsky saw the already formed church communities as being the perfect springboards for agitation and creating bonds for demanding goods and services.[/FONT]

[FONT=times new roman,times]When Obama first undertook his agitating work in Chicago's South Side poor neighborhoods, he was un-churched. Yet his office was in a Church and most of the folks he needed to agitate and organize were Church people -- pastors and congregants -- who took their churches and their church-going very seriously. So, this became a problem for the young agnostic, who had been exposed to very little religion in his life. Again and again, he was asked by pastors and church ladies, "Where do you go to Church, young man?" It was a question he dodged for a while, but finally he relented and joined a church.[/FONT]

[FONT=times new roman,times]Not just any church, but a huge black nationalist church with a pastor, Rev. Jeremiah Wright, who unabashedly preaches a "black" gospel. [/FONT][FONT=times new roman,times]Rolling Stone Magazine[/FONT]

[FONT=times new roman,times](http://www.rollingstone.com/politic...gn_08_the_radical_roots_of_barack_obama/print)

ran with a story on Obama and his church, entitled, "Destiny's Child," which included this exert from one of Rev. Wright's sermons:
[/FONT]

[FONT=times new roman,times]"Fact number one: We've got more black men in prison than there are in college," he intones. [/FONT]

[FONT=times new roman,times]"Fact number two: Racism is how this country was founded and how this country is still run!" [/FONT]

[FONT=times new roman,times]"We are deeply involved in the importing of drugs, the exporting of guns and the training of professional KILLERS. . . . We believe in white supremacy and black inferiority and believe it more than we believe in God. . . . We conducted radiation experiments on our own people. . . . We care nothing about human life if the ends justify the means!" [/FONT]

[FONT=times new roman,times]The crowd whoops and amens as Wright builds to his climax: "And. And. And! GAWD! Has GOT! To be SICK! OF THIS S**T!"[/FONT]
[FONT=times new roman,times]This doesn't sound like any church in which I've ever worshipped, but perhaps I have led a sheltered life. Reverend Wright, whom Obama called his spiritual mentor

(http://www.americanthinker.com/cgi-...g/2007/04/obama_throwing_his_spiritual_m.html)

and still claims is his sounding board,

(http://www.rollingstone.com/politic...gn_08_the_radical_roots_of_barack_obama/print)

has taken trips abroad with none other than Louis Farrakhan. The Honorable Minister Louis Farrakhan

(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uXS_YrYp07Q)

received the "Rev. Dr. Jeremiah A. Wright,Jr. Lifetime Achievement Trumpeteer" Award at the 2007 Trumpet Gala at the the United Church of Christ. Wright was even reported

(http://www.discoverthenetworks.org/Articles/bobamasunlikelypoliticaledu.html)

to be a former Muslim. One might be led to wonder if this "church" isn't all it makes itself out to be.
[/FONT]

[FONT=times new roman,times]Among some of the black nationalist signs hanging in this church are a list of admonishments to black solidarity, called the "Black Value System," and a sort of moral code calling for the "Disavowal of the Pursuit of Middleclassness." I don't recall the Ten Commandments or anything at all in the Gospel about race, so this seems a bit strange. [/FONT]

[FONT=times new roman,times]But Obama isn't starry-eyed when it comes to protecting himself from the possibility of bad press regarding his church affiliation. When he was preparing to announce his campaign for the Presidency in February, he called his minister, Reverend Wright, the night before and disinvited him to stand on the podium in front of all the cameras. Rather than face questions, he simply eliminated the target, a perfect Alinsky action meant to forestall an enemy reaction.[/FONT]

[FONT=times new roman,times]Hillary should have known what she was up against when she read up on how Obama won his state senate seat in Illinois. [/FONT]

[FONT=times new roman,times]Obama had returned to Chicago and practiced civil rights law for 3 years, when he spied an opportunity to run for the state senate. A longtime, widely-revered matron of the civil rights movement named Alice Palmer had held the seat for a number of years, but she announced that she wanted to run for Congress. So, Obama seized the opportunity and proclaimed his intention to run for Alice's open seat. [/FONT]

[FONT=times new roman,times]Well, Alice lost the congressional race and decided that she wanted to hang onto that hard-won state senate seat. Most of the community leaders tried to persuade Obama to withdraw and wait his turn; he was a newcomer after all. [/FONT]

[FONT=times new roman,times]Instead Obama performed his first real act of political jujitsu. He sent his aides to the courthouse to carefully examine all of Alice Palmer's signatures to see if enough could be disallowed to knock her off the ballot altogether. And indeed, some of Alice's signatures were fake. The aides also found enough other fake signatures on opponents' ballot initiatives to knock them off the ballot as well. [/FONT]

[FONT=times new roman,times]By the time Barack Obama walked handily into his state senate seat, everyone there knew him as "the man who knocked off Alice Palmer." Quite a feat indeed for the newcomer, the young whippersnapper with the odd name.[/FONT]



[FONT=times new roman,times]Kyle-Anne Shiver is a frequent contributor to American Thinker. She welcomes your comments at [/FONT][FONT=times new roman,times]kyleanneshiver@yahoo.com[/FONT][FONT=times new roman,times]. [/FONT]
 

zerofischer

a reading from the book of Bennington
Nov 18, 2002
316
#21
as disturbing as thinking every Muslim is a suicide bomber? i dont even support Obama and I dont even vote and if I did I wouldnt vote for Obama but I find it completely moronic to basically equate him to being a suicide bomber because he may or may not be muslim...every christian has apologized for his sins, what are you talking about? and what have I contributed to this discussion? about as much as about 75% of the posts in this thread. should i of badly copy and pasted some stupid shit off of a website to make my post relevant?
 
N

nicheal21

Guest
#22
Fuck Obama or what ever he is.
 

RachelStar

Registered User
Jan 9, 2008
0
#24
yeah because christians have never done any sort of violence against people who don't agree with their religion..
lol

I agree with the previous poster who said even the mention of it would effect his campaign.
 
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