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Obama Will Not Veto Bill That Would Indefinitely Detain U.S. Citizens

Discussion in 'Current Events' started by KRSOne, Dec 15, 2011.

  1. KRSOne

    KRSOne Registered User

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    Obama Drops Veto Threat Over Military Authorization Bill After Revisions


    Section 1021 (c) still remains and states: "The disposition of a person under the law of war as described in subsection (a) may include the following: (1) Detention under the law of war without trial until the end of hostilities authorized by the Authorization to Use Military Force."

    Sen. Rand Paul (R-KY) warned the provisions “put every American at risk” of being sent to Guantanamo Bay. Sen. Mark Kirk (R-IL) said it violated the Constitution because U.S. citizens could be apprehended on U.S. soil and held without a trial.

    FBI Director Robert Mueller said the provisions would disrupt, rather than strengthen, efforts to fight terrorism in the U.S.

    [video=youtube;9ni-nPc6gT4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ni-nPc6gT4[/video]

    Lindsey Graham very upset about the idea of Americans getting a fair trial.

    "When they say I want my lawyer, you tell them shut up!" - Lindsey Graham
     
  2. whiskeyguy

    whiskeyguy PR representative for Drunk Whiskeyguy.

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    So these new provisions do apply to American citizens as well? If they do, so fucking unconstitutional.
     
  3. mikeybot

    mikeybot SPANAKOPITA!!!

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    But...I thought only Republicans wanted to ignore the constitution?
     
  4. Lord Zero

    Lord Zero Viciously Silly

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  5. Neckbeard

    Neckbeard I'm Team Piggy!

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    I was told that President Obama could ignore FISA and keep the PATRIOT Act and order assassinations of U.S. citizens because as a constitutional law scholar he could be trusted with that stuff.

    So, barring War on Terror pretext and flimsy legal justifications of it, what does this really throw in the trash?

    The First amendment. Wouldn't want any of that extremist terroristic hate speech. Also, freedom of association. Lots of FBI informants and military rats in militias and political groups already and this is an excuse to make it worse.
    Second Amendment. Can't be armed. That is terroristic enemy combatant hate behavior.
    Habeas Corpus
    Posse Comitatus
    Provisions against cruel and unusual punishment
    Speedy trial with notification of charges and by a jury of your peers.

    Abominable bill. It will never, ever be repealed either. So if you think President Obama is fine, just wait until we get a real freakshow who starts to use all of these "laws."
     
  6. Party Rooster

    Party Rooster Unleash The Beast

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  7. Don the Radio Guy

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    I don't like this one bit, but it's not unconstitutional. Of course the application of it to non-terror suspects could be unconstitutional. That's the problem with vague laws like this. As such, it will likely end up being stricken down.
     
  8. CousinDave

    CousinDave Registered User

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    I'm for it so long as the next POTUS uses it against Eric Holder
     
  9. Begbie

    Begbie Wackbag Generalissimo

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    Yes we can........keep Gitmo open and continue detaining terrorists and even throw a few Americans in there for good measure...



    It was either this video, or the pompous celebrity "Pledge" video (ya know, the one where Ashton Kutcher pledged to be honest :rolleyes:), or the kids singing that Obama song...but I posted that recently already.
     
  10. whiskeyguy

    whiskeyguy PR representative for Drunk Whiskeyguy.

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    If you put an American on domestic soil in jail and deny them the right to a trial or counsel, it absolutely is unconstitutional.
     
  11. Don the Radio Guy

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    Not if they're enemy combatants. The problem with this law is that almost anyone could be classified as such, and that's where the constitutionality comes into question. I also don't trust this bunch to make those judgments one bit. The only good thing about this law is seeing the libtards try to defend Obama for signing it.
     
  12. Josh_R

    Josh_R Registered User

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    "whaa" Let me read that again, I must have missed the part where it says "except for when the President decides you are an enemy combatant".

    This literally throws out 100% of the Sixth Amendment to the Constitution. How in the FUCK can anyone argue that it is constitutional?
     
  13. MayrMeninoCrash

    MayrMeninoCrash Liberal Psycopath

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    How did Obama signing a bill into law ignore the Constitution? :huh:

    I'm guessing he's calling Boehner's bluff here.
     
  14. Josh_R

    Josh_R Registered User

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    http://www.wackbag.com/showthread.php/140685-Senator-quot-Shut-up-you-don-t-get-a-lawyer

    The President has a duty to veto laws that are blatantly unconstitutional, or even those that he feels are unconstitutional. Seeing as he is a constitutional law scholar, it should be pretty obvious to him that this is a violation.
     
  15. Begbie

    Begbie Wackbag Generalissimo

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    Lest we forget...

    What happened Cindy? Not in the headlines anymore, huh?



     
  16. Don the Radio Guy

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    We've been over this before. The president has broad authority to conduct wars.
     
  17. Josh_R

    Josh_R Registered User

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    Does he also have the authority to suspend the 6th amendment?
     
  18. Don the Radio Guy

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    The Sixth Amendment deals with criminal cases. Enemy combatants aren't criminals, they're enemies in a war. This particular law might very well be unconstitutional, but the idea of enemy combatants not being afforded the same protections as a burglar isn't unconstitutional on its face.
     
  19. whiskeyguy

    whiskeyguy PR representative for Drunk Whiskeyguy.

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    What about Americans on domestic soil? When does the guy in Idaho with 40 firearms become labeled as a terrorist, or perhaps someone who is vocal against the government?
     
  20. MayrMeninoCrash

    MayrMeninoCrash Liberal Psycopath

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    I miss Kirk :(
     
  21. whiskeyguy

    whiskeyguy PR representative for Drunk Whiskeyguy.

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    Makes sense to want a healthy dose of crazy after being exposed to my intelligent and relevant posts.

    Remember this little statement from Homeland Security 2 years ago?

    How much violence has been caused by right-wing extremist, especially compared to Muslim extremist?

    Anyway, all that is beyond the point. This is unconstitutional if used against American citizens. I for one don't feel like giving the government this power and hoping they don't abuse it.
     
  22. Josh_R

    Josh_R Registered User

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    How does the government go about proving that an American citizen arrested on American soil is an enemy combatant? Remember that whole "innocent until PROVEN guilty" thing? If they don't have to PROVE that you committed the alleged offense, then what good is a constitution?
     
  23. Don the Radio Guy

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    There are specific criteria as to what constitutes an enemy combatant. Those criteria should have been included in this bill to avoid any confusion. They weren't, and that is a problem.

    This isn't a criminal matter. Would you have preferred to attempt capturing Osama bin Laden and bringing him here for a show trial? Or should we have just sent in the SEAL Team and killed him like we did? The concept is the same here. If, and only if, the person being targeted is an enemy combatant, then he should be treated like any other. When you engage in war against the United States, you lose your protections as a citizen. It's not that hard to understand.

    And the comparisons to domestic terrorists don't hold up either. An enemy combatant is siding with a foreign power that isn't part of an organized army of a recognized state. That's what defines an enemy combatant. Domestic terrorism isn't war, it's a crime. Domestic terrorists receive the same protections as any other criminal.
     
  24. Falldog

    Falldog Wackbag's Best Conservative
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    I am absolutely shocked to see Don not only defending Obama, but shitting on the Constitution too.
     
  25. Josh_R

    Josh_R Registered User

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    Is OBL an American citizen? Was OBL in America when the crime was committed? The criteria for what is an enemy combatant is pretty low, something like "substantially supporting a terrorist organization". I don't think it would be too hard to "prove" that a person had done just that. How about unknowingly donating to an organization that funnels money to AQ? See ya in Gitmo or sometime in the next decade when we declare and end to the war on terror.
     

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