Discussion in 'Current Events' started by stevethrower, May 25, 2012.
Holder is too big to jail.
Whats the punishment for someone convicted of treason?
Holder and the head of the ATF should be in prison for acting as accessories to murder in the death of the Border Patrol agent. Holder should also be in prison for violation of the states' civil rights for his attacks on legal medical marijuana dispensaries.
Don't you mean they're "Holdering" him in contempt? Hmmmmppphhhh merrr meh.
I have to laugh when the conservatives keep trying to pin the death of a person on someone other than the shooter. Aren't their core arguments to gun control:
1) Guns don't kill people, people kill people
2) When arguing against more stringent gun control, isn't their point frequently "criminals will still find a way to get their guns."
3) They've always been against any measures that would hold gun manufacturers and sellers liable for crimes committed with guns.
Your arguments are bullshit. The ATF and went out of their way to make sure that those guns (and let's not forget the few hand grenades) made their way into criminal hands. That was the whole point of the operation.
Few conservatives would argue that conspiracy to provide know murderers with firearms illegally shouldn't be a crime. The ATF interceded and instructed gun sellers to allow these weapons to be sent to known murderers.
Also, different arguments can be made for citizens of this country vs our government. The Constitution's job is to protect the freedom of the citizens while drastically limiting the freedom (at least in theory) of the government.
I'm not arguing for the merits of the operation. I'm saying it wouldn't have mattered whether F&F was never implemented. Those criminals would have still been there in the desert that day armed with guns (obtained from somewhere else) and still would have shot Brian Terry.
Subverting the constitution deserves nothing less then death by hanging.
I think it's more akin to the recent bust of the Yemeni al Qaeda plot to blow up another one of our planes. Suppose during the operation something fell apart and the bomber slipped through the cracks and was able to successfully blow up an airliner with C-4 we had given him. Do you now charge Petraeus with murder because the operation failed?
Some guns do kill people.
Isn't this whole "Eric Holder should be put on trial for murder" just the Right's version of "Bush and Cheney should be tried in the Hague for war crimes"? It's silly then and silly now. Good to know that both sides will stoop deep into the insanity when it comes to political rhetoric.
Doesn't matter. The gangs and drug cartels effectively got the guns from the ATF, therefore the ATF is an accessory to any murder committed with one of those guns. If a friend of mine gets murderously pissed off and I give him a gun knowing exactly what he's going to do with it, it doesn't matter whether or not nothing was going to stop him from getting a gun; I still knowingly provided him with a murder weapon. By the way, let's not forget about the ATF's ulterior motive for basically handing those guns over; to promote an explosion of gun violence then using the public's reaction to that explosion to push for more gun control.
Since the ATF is complicit in EVERY gun transaction, they would be on trial for a shitload of murders every year. Somehow I don't see any judge seeing things your way.
Guns obtained from a source other than the US. Probably from some south American or Mexican military cache. The entire point of F&F was to frame the 2nd amendment for the drug wars. The gun store was not going to sell these guns to the person that went in for them, he called the ATF and was told to sell them. The laws already in place worked to keep guns out of drug cartels hands.
Now you went full Kirktard.
Going to war with a criminal regime that was voted on by congress and passed...and covertly handing over guns to vicious criminals knowing that they will be used for murder are hardly the same thing.
If you can't tell the difference between a legal gun sale and this gunwalking scandal, you're an idiot.
You don't even believe ATF documents obtained by CBS, you just reached a new level of trendy
You're not helping.
Lets also not forget that the first modern gun laws came into place as a result of the crime that prohibition caused and now they are using the drug war for the same reason.
If hes denying the documents that prove it was a operation to frame the 2nd, you are never going to convince him, no matter what you say.
So in my example of the Yemenis successfully blowing up a plane you'd be charging Petraeus with murder as well?
Look who's all of a sudden a fan of the mainstream media. You just reached a new level of kirktardation.
Documents are documents no matter who obtains them. I don't care if Michael Moore Or Rachel Maddow released them.