Praying in Paris streets outlawed

Dec 8, 2004
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Praying in the streets of Paris is against the law starting Friday, after the interior minister warned that police will use force if Muslims, and those of any other faith, disobey the new rule to keep the French capital's public spaces secular./B]

Claude Guéant said that ban could later be extended to the rest of France, in particular to the Mediterranean cities of Nice and Marseilles, where "the problem persists".

He promised the new legislation would be followed to the letter as it "hurts the sensitivities of many of our fellow citizens".

"My vigilance will be unflinching for the law to be applied. Praying in the street is not dignified for religious practice and violates the principles of secularism, the minister told Le Figaro newspaper.

"All Muslim leaders are in agreement," he insisted.

In December when Marine Le Pen, then leader-in-waiting of the far-Right National Front, sparked outrage by likening the practice to the Nazi occupation of Paris in the Second World War "without the tanks or soldiers". She said it was a "political act of fundamentalists".

More than half of right-wing sympathisers in France agreed with Marine Le Pen, at least one poll suggested.

Nicolas Sarkozy's party denounced the comments, but the President called for a debate on Islam and secularism and went on to say that multiculturalism had failed in France.

Following the debate, Mr Guéant promised a countrywide ban "within months", saying the "street is for driving in, not praying".

In April, a ban on wearing the full Islamic veil came into force. Holland today became the third European country to ban the burka, after Belgium, despite the fact fewer than 100 Dutch women are thought to wear the face-covering Islamic dress.

Yesterday, Mr Guéant said the prayer problem was limited to two roads in the Goutte d'Or district of Paris's eastern 19th arrondissement, where "more than a thousand" people blocked the street every Friday.

However, a stroll through several districts in Paris on a Friday suggests that Muslims spill into the streets outside many mosques.

Under an agreement signed this week, believers will be able to use the premises of a vast nearby fire station while awaiting the construction of a bigger mosque.

"We could go as far as using force if necessary (to impose the ban), but it's a scenario I don't believe will happen, as dialogue (with local religious leaders) has born fruit," he said.

Sheikh Mohamed salah Hamza, in charge of one of the Parisian mosques which regularly overflows, said he would obey the new law, but complained: "We are not cattle" and that he was "not entirely satisfied" with the new location. He said he feared many believers would continue to prefer going to the smaller mosque.

Public funding of places of religious worship is banned under a 1905 law separating church and state. Mr Guéant said that there were 2,000 mosques in France with half being built in the past ten years.

France has Europe's largest Muslim population, with an estimated five million in total.



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BIV

I'm Biv Dick Black, the Over Poster.
Apr 22, 2002
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#2
So they want to keep it in Le Pew?
 

jrsaint

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#3
Good. These fuckin muzzies shut down whole city blocks by praying in the street. France is one country that when it gets pissed off about a group of people fucking with it, they will be very heavy handed. just look at Algiers in the 1950's
 

Mags

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Yet the USA allows it. Everyone calls the French pussys?
 

whiskeyguy

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Good. These fuckin muzzies shut down whole city blocks by praying in the street. France is one country that when it gets pissed off about a group of people fucking with it, they will be very heavy handed. just look at Algiers in the 1950's
Yet the USA allows it. Everyone calls the French pussys?
Freedom is cool unless you disagree with it?

The camel jockies annoy me as much as anyone else here, but if we give the government power to regulate prayer, we give it the power to mandate it if there is an obnoxious social shift that way. Fuck France and fuck any country without a constitution similar to ours.
 

Mags

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Freedom is cool unless you disagree with it?

The camel jockies annoy me as much as anyone else here, but if we give the government power to regulate prayer, we give it the power to mandate it if there is an obnoxious social shift that way. Fuck France and fuck any country without a constitution similar to ours.
Um, the government making public prayer illegal in no way gives government the power to mandate it. How do you even make that connection?

How about ALL prayer is kept to churches or at home?
 

JoeFromS.Jersey

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Um, the government making public prayer illegal in no way gives government the power to mandate it. How do you even make that connection?

How about ALL prayer is kept to churches or at home?
How about people should be free to do whatever the fuck they want to do if it doesn't directly impact anyone else? I can understand them mandating that prayer that causes problems (IE throwing down a carpet in the middle of the road) be banned, but if a Christian, Jew or Muzzie is in the middle of the park and praying there should IN NO WAY be a law against it. If they can say you can't pray in public there is no difference from them saying you can't hug, skip, drink water...etc.... How do you not see the very nasty slope this would put you on?
 

Mags

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How about people should be free to do whatever the fuck they want to do if it doesn't directly impact anyone else? I can understand them mandating that prayer that causes problems (IE throwing down a carpet in the middle of the road) be banned, but if a Christian, Jew or Muzzie is in the middle of the park and praying there should IN NO WAY be a law against it. If they can say you can't pray in public there is no difference from them saying you can't hug, skip, drink water...etc.... How do you not see the very nasty slope this would put you on?
Gotta love the religious. They HAVE to give the savages a pass just so THEIR OWN religion doesn't get fucked with. Must be an uncomfortable position to maintain.

What slope? Why can't people have sex in public if it's not closing down streets, etc?

What's wrong with forbidding public prayer? It's not in the constitution. You'd still be allowed to pray away the gay at home or in your tax-abated church.
 
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Praying is a form of speech. I don't know about France, but in this country it's protected by the First Amendment.
 

JoeFromS.Jersey

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Gotta love the religious. They HAVE to give the savages a pass just so THEIR OWN religion doesn't get fucked with. Must be an uncomfortable position to maintain.

What slope? Why can't people have sex in public if it's not closing down streets, etc?

What's wrong with forbidding public prayer? It's not in the constitution. You'd still be allowed to pray away the gay at home or in your tax-abated church.
Having sex in public could be viewed as a "damaging" visual to (for instance) children, and is therefore directly impacting someone besides the person engaged in the act. A person or group of persons sitting or standing around with their eyes closed praying to God, Allah, or Mother Gaia could not possibly be construed (at least by anyone who is sane with an ounce of intellectual integrity) as damaging or offensive.

Secondly, separation of church and state IS in the constitution. Therefore, the government really has no business regulating religion (yes I know we're talking about France here, but hypothetically extending the argument to this country).

Gotta love the atheists. They HAVE to attack everything else just so THEIR OWN RELIGION doesn't get fucked with.
 

Mags

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Having sex in public could be viewed as a "damaging" visual to (for instance) children, and is therefore directly impacting someone besides the person engaged in the act. A person or group of persons sitting or standing around with their eyes closed praying to God, Allah, or Mother Gaia could not possibly be construed (at least by anyone who is sane with an ounce of intellectual integrity) as damaging or offensive.

Secondly, separation of church and state IS in the constitution. Therefore, the government really has no business regulating religion (yes I know we're talking about France here, but hypothetically extending the argument to this country).

Gotta love the atheists. They HAVE to attack everything else just so THEIR OWN RELIGION doesn't get fucked with.
Yep sex is damaging to our precious snowflakes :icon_roll

I submit seeing wackos praying IS damaging. Oh wait, how else will we indoctrinate our snowflakes into believing in ghosts if we DON'T start hammering it into their heads early?

Ban prayer in public. Sit in your basement or in your "house if god" and pray to a fable.
 

JoeFromS.Jersey

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#12
Yep sex is damaging to our precious snowflakes :icon_roll

I submit seeing wackos praying IS damaging. Oh wait, how else will we indoctrinate our snowflakes into believing in ghosts if we DON'T start hammering it into their heads early?

Ban prayer in public. Sit in your basement or in your "house if god" and pray to a fable.
How are you such a cunt?

Also....seeing someone standing around with their eyes closed could be praying or resting their eyes. You'd have no way of knowing. Your own argument makes no sense....it's just full of your own bigotry. I'm not even saying that sex in a park should necessarily be banned. I'm just saying that any logical person can see how a person could be potentially offended. Prayer on the other hand (assuming that it's praying as most people think of it and not some huge production) is fairly self contained and therefore not readily thought of as offensive. If you had half a brain or any sense of intellectual honesty you'd have to agree with me. But...I suppose you're basing your argument on pretend land where only what goes through your head makes any sort of sense.
 

BIV

I'm Biv Dick Black, the Over Poster.
Apr 22, 2002
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#13
Yep sex is damaging to our precious snowflakes :icon_roll

I submit seeing wackos praying IS damaging. Oh wait, how else will we indoctrinate our snowflakes into believing in ghosts if we DON'T start hammering it into their heads early?

Ban prayer in public. Sit in your basement or in your "house if god" and pray to a fable.
Dude, you are embarrassing yourself.
 

Mags

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How are you such a cunt?

Also....seeing someone standing around with their eyes closed could be praying or resting their eyes. You'd have no way of knowing. Your own argument makes no sense....it's just full of your own bigotry. I'm not even saying that sex in a park should necessarily be banned. I'm just saying that any logical person can see how a person could be potentially offended. Prayer on the other hand (assuming that it's praying as most people think of it and not some huge production) is fairly self contained and therefore not readily thought of as offensive. If you had half a brain or any sense of intellectual honesty you'd have to agree with me. But...I suppose you're basing your argument on pretend land where only what goes through your head makes any sort of sense.
People closing their eyes is no problem of course.

What the French are outlawing is mass prayers that are actually shutting down streets. Are you okay with that if it happens here? I wouldn't think so.

I don't give a fuck if people want to sit in a park and close their eyes and hope they go to magic land someday. Once they go out of their way to inconvenience others or make a disruptive spectical of it, it's a problem.
 

JoeFromS.Jersey

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#15
People closing their eyes is no problem of course.

What the French are outlawing is mass prayers that are actually shutting down streets. Are you okay with that if it happens here? I wouldn't think so.

I don't give a fuck if people want to sit in a park and close their eyes and hope they go to magic land someday. Once they go out of their way to inconvenience others or make a disruptive spectical of it, it's a problem.
Did you even read my original response? No, I'm not fine with mass prayers that shut down streets. I'm totally cool with them not allowing people to cause a mass inconvenience or danger to anyone else. Read....directly impacting someone else.
 

Hate & Discontent

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#16
People closing their eyes is no problem of course.

What the French are outlawing is mass prayers that are actually shutting down streets. Are you okay with that if it happens here? I wouldn't think so.

I don't give a fuck if people want to sit in a park and close their eyes and hope they go to magic land someday. Once they go out of their way to inconvenience others or make a disruptive spectical of it, it's a problem.
I have to agree with this. It should be treated no differently than mass protests that block streets, public sidewalks, etc. If 500 people show up in front of a building and protest without a permit, they are breaking the law in most jurisdictions, and the police can make them leave or face arrest. The same should apply for mass prayer sessions. Plus, Muslims praying in the street is symbolic for them as a way of claiming territory from kuffar.

The one idiot in the street, though, should just get poked with a stick and told to get out of the way. I'm pretty sure the French law was aimed at the large-scale prayer sessions, though, not the lone dude in the street.
 

jrsaint

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#17
The French are just trying to stop the muzzies from shutting down busy roadways every fuckin day at noon or whatever time they do pray. They are trying to instill their religious beliefs upon everbody else by stopping traffic. "a good musliam would be praying right now with us, not trying to get somewhere right now. Allah disapproves of your lack of faith"
 

JoeFromS.Jersey

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#18
I have to agree with this. It should be treated no differently than mass protests that block streets, public sidewalks, etc. If 500 people show up in front of a building and protest without a permit, they are breaking the law in most jurisdictions, and the police can make them leave or face arrest. The same should apply for mass prayer sessions. Plus, Muslims praying in the street is symbolic for them as a way of claiming territory from kuffar.

The one idiot in the street, though, should just get poked with a stick and told to get out of the way. I'm pretty sure the French law was aimed at the large-scale prayer sessions, though, not the lone dude in the street.
I agree with this. They should treat any disruption as what it is...

The problem is banning it in all public places. If someone wants to organize a prayer event, even a large scale one, in a public place such as a park or somewhere it does not cause a disruption to normal business/activity the government has no place in banning it. They've swept in with FAR to general of a law and an over the top reaction.
 

SuperGolfer

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#19
I wonder if this extends to public meditation. Say, a single buddhist sitting in the lotus position in the Jardin des Tuileries.

I don't like it.
 

whiskeyguy

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Um, the government making public prayer illegal in no way gives government the power to mandate it. How do you even make that connection?

How about ALL prayer is kept to churches or at home?
I'm talking about crossing a threshold. If you give the government power to control where and when you pray, then that power may be wielded in ways you don't like in the future.

That said, I agree that mass payers that block public sidewalks/streets should be banned or require a permit, just like protests.

By the way, I'm not religious... I just don't want the government to have that kind of control.
 

mills

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#23
[Club Soda Kenny]A truly invigorating issue[/Club Soda Kenny]

I don't know if I hate the french because they don't have the balls to sacrifice for a just version of freedom or if I love them for having the balls to say enough is enough.

But there's been some weird unexpected shit coming out of France over the years, and they seem to be taking that coward label to heart.
 

Don the Radio Guy

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#24
This comment did not get the recognition it deserves.

BRAVO!
Seriously. Good line.

[Club Soda Kenny]But there's been some weird unexpected shit coming out of France over the years, and they seem to be taking that coward label to heart.
I'd say it's cowardly to ban all prayer when you're only being assaulted by the followers of one religion. There's nothing brave about stealing peoples' natural born rights.