Racism vs. classism

moegolden

Perv-switch toggler
Oct 3, 2004
7,293
2
226
#1
Maybe this is preaching to the choir, but let's open a discussion.....

Someone asked in another thread if anyone else also finds themselves getting more and more racist as they get older. My gut reaction was yes in all honesty, but then I was thinking about it....

I still don't think I hate people based on their race, but I do see some reason and logic behind some of the elitist "bell curve" ideas.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Bell_Curve

I guess I am somewhat prejudiced now, since merely going by statistics, some people are a little more likely to commit crimes or drop out of school.

I have empathy for anyone stuck in a shit job or even just a boring menial job that pays a living wage, but at some point people have to take some kind of risk to try to move upward in society - or they remain in the permanent underclass . for many, that risk is crime....for others, the investment in education ---- then there's the dream of the lottery, which one could regard as an additional tax on the poor.

If you're a young person from the "hood", how can you not put in some serious effort to try for the dreams of being an entertainer and/or athlete? The potential financial rewards are truly insane.

Are the lower-classes getting so screwed over in their day to day lives that they can no longer afford to invest in a proper education? Is that the way it has always been?

Sometimes, conservative folks like Bill O'Reilly will flatly state that "Classism is a much bigger problem in this country than racism." I'm not conservative but I guess I'm faced more with classism day to day, so I could identify with that statement. I think we are at a point where anyone has at least some access to ways to better themselves, but it's the day to day struggling to earn a living that is the ultimate issue.

some people just completely snap....and as the gaps between the classes continues (both those between the elite and the merely upper-middle classes and between the upper-middle to working/poor) that can only get worse.

But then I'm reminded how gambling works: The winners get the losers' money, and the house gets its cut, only caring to maximize the action.

Even if you agree 100%, I'd like to hear some serious thoughts.
 

moegolden

Perv-switch toggler
Oct 3, 2004
7,293
2
226
#2
Honestly, I'm someone who is getting more and more envious of Jews every day because literally every one I know has utilized the system perfectly (solid education, 9-5 job, solid money, time for non-work pursuits). I don't think they can be genetically superior....just that, as I understand, their religious educational system has its values based on the notion of grooming a child for his independence from day one.

It's not unfair to think the underclasses are too preoccupied with trying to satisfy their basic necessities to get that. Anyone else familiar with Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maslow's_hierarchy_of_needs

kind of says it all.
 

Glenn Dandy

THE ONLY WHITE PRESIDENT LEFT.
Mar 21, 2005
19,758
35
298
Wackbag Whitehouse.
#3
Extensive studys on this subject have already concluded the black man will wise up in just under 24 hours when given an opportunity.


Jews are smart... they are racists with an actual working clan faction that preaches seperatism... and nobody is the wiser. quite the task in modern america... but since the germans put em in ovens they can do it.... awwww.....poor grandmom.

White people are victims of never losing wars or fucking up.

next time you see a white girl with a black guy how much ya wanna bet shes not jewish. we arent allowed to teach irish girls that mistake or were racists.


Sadly the white race is fucking doomed.
 
#4
next time you see a white girl with a black guy how much ya wanna bet shes not jewish. we arent allowed to teach irish girls that mistake or were racists.


Sadly the white race is fucking doomed.
Ah, don't be so sure about that now.

And why do people bring up Jews? Jew is not a race. Just like Islamic is not a race. Hell they're basically the same people, just culturally a world apart.
 
May 24, 2005
528
0
166
Charlotte, NC
#5
Over time I've become more convinced that we have a class issue in this country. If you look at the attitudes of Gen Y, Gen X and all that, there isn't really a big deal being made out of race.

Generally speaking, people that are lower income and that don't have a strong family or education go on to commit more crimes. A lot of them happen to be black. If you look at blacks that are in the middle and upper classes financially, you see that they tend to be married and have a lot of values around hard work and education. That leads me to believe that the lower financial classes are the ones with the 'problems.'

As to how to fix that, I have no freakin' idea. I simply don't think that they realize that education and hard work open up those kinds of possibilities. Maybe their role models don't reflect that either. It's not that hard to be successful in the U.S.. There's probably no easier, better place on the planet to "make it."
 

WhiskeyWhispers

I Want To Kill You All
Mar 11, 2007
3,544
3
0
Jersey
#6
Both are in full effect.

Ask any broke white person and they'll tell you what cunts people with money are. Doesn't anyone remember high school and how all the fags (guidos) had to have designer clothes and $100 dollar sneakers or you were looked at like something they just stepped in? Ever go to an uppity mall with a Slayer t-shirt on? They look at you like you're going to try and kill them.

As for racism, it will always exist , especially if a certain race refuses to let go of the past and move on, even if it means they have to work that much harder to achieve success. Even then, does anyone honestly believe that we will all just magically get along? Puh-lease.

Bottom line is peace & love sounds great on paper, but the world no work no that way. While preaching unity and all that jazz is noble, it is ultimately a fruitless endeavor . This world will always be full of isms. I'm just doing my time like every other asshole.
 

HummerTuesdays

Another girrrrl!!!
Apr 24, 2005
7,347
0
261
On the road to ruin
#7
Generally speaking, people that are lower income and that don't have a strong family or education go on to commit more crimes. A lot of them happen to be black. If you look at blacks that are in the middle and upper classes financially, you see that they tend to be married and have a lot of values around hard work and education. That leads me to believe that the lower financial classes are the ones with the 'problems.'
Millionair rap artists being the exception, of course.
 
Feb 20, 2006
8,646
549
521
**** Island
#8
Most people I've met that consider racists scum are usually elitist assholes. They're so proud of themselves for being open-minded when it comes to race but they also think they're better than anyone with less money, less education, or a more "menial" job. Especially blue collar whites. In a word; liberals.

Take my co-workers for example. Oh they hate racism and mean-spirited conservatives but they will never deign to speak to the service/contract workers in our building. They'll only speak to them if they need something, otherwise it's beneath them. They even ignore the black contractors they proclaim to love so much. It never fails, if there's a group of us walking down a hallway I'm the only one that says hello. Even when we go out for lunch they treat the wait staff like they're ghosts. I've seen this behavior at every company I've worked for the last 12 years. They were so sympathetic to those poor Rutgers girls being attacked by that white racist Imus but if any of those girls ever took a job working in our cafeteria or temping as an admin they'd be flatly ignored and looked at as an irritant if they initiated a conversation. I'm surprised I wasn't reprimanded when the Duke lacrosse case was in full swing. I actually had the nerve to defend the players. I was somewhat ostracized for awhile after that. Doesn't matter that I was right in the end. I'm the only one with hatred in my heart you see.:rolleyes:
 
#9
As for racism, it will always exist , especially if a certain race refuses to let go of the past and move on
Yes because it's so easy to do that. Especially from the opposing viewpoint. Now I'd love to see someone have the balls to tell the jews that.

I'm one of those kind of people that says live and let live. if you aren't bothering me I'm not going to bother you. And seeing how some people do, of that background do milk it with the history I can understand, but you're just as wrong by saying "well get over it" That's not your call to make.
 
Jan 6, 2006
9,655
8
368
#10
It doesn't matter who you are or where you came from, you will always be more comfortable with people of your own kind. It isn't racism, it's purely human nature that I will feel more comfortable with a Russian (me being Russian) than someone from Poland. It doesn't matter if the Pole is the nicest person in the World, my kind is the best kind, same goes for you.

And as for Classism, bullshit. That is the go-to defense of someone that has failed in society. Rockafeller was born into a poor family and he created the greatest monopoly of all time. Being born into a poor family means nothing, you have just as much of a chance as anyone else. You get public education just like everyone else. The State doesn't want more people on welfare, they try to break the cycle by providing areas that need support, but all those areas do is leech off of what is given and continue the circle instead of breaking it. And when something doesn't go their way, its automatically someone else's fault. Blaming others is an excuse for your failings. You have the chance, you can either take it at full force or deny the chance, then blame society for it.
 
#11
I dunno. For me life has been different. For some reason I came from the school your "own kind" know you best and know how better to fuck you. Other than that. I have just been around long enough to come to the conclusion that I have to take things and people for the most part individually.

I don't see myself as unique or more evolved than anyone, but I have learned in 34 years that all of us carry around individual baggage. And that is what I focus on. There are going to be good and bad in every group.

Well except Stern fans. Fuck them all.
 
Jan 6, 2006
9,655
8
368
#12
I dunno. For me life has been different. For some reason I came from the school your "own kind" know you best and know how better to fuck you. Other than that. I have just been around long enough to come to the conclusion that I have to take things and people for the most part individually.

I don't see myself as unique or more evolved than anyone, but I have learned in 34 years that all of us carry around individual baggage. And that is what I focus on. There are going to be good and bad in every group.
But that is to say that all groups are equal, which they are absolutely not. Yes, there are bad and good in every group/society, but there are more in some than others.

Social evolution is in action, there is a reason that when the Spainards came to Mexico, the Aztecs were shocked by the riding horses and magic sticks that they had. They had the same chance to get advanced as the Europeans but didn't and it has nothing to do with culture, all people are not created equal.
 
#13
Of course. Not all are created equal. But the overall determination of who I don't get into. I can only deal with one person at a time. I guess the way I've refined it to fit my life is I had to reverse it all. I guess I see people in general as shit. And I encounter a decent person from time to time.
 

shwoogielover

don't trust me, i'm lying to you
Nov 13, 2005
376
0
0
chicago
#14
talk about not wanting to let go of the past... the older i get the more i want to own another human being. can you imagine them empowerment you'd feel being able to point at another person and say "i own you." it has nothing to do with race or class whatsoever, i would be happy owning a rich norwegian just for a day or even an hour, but...

at any rate. i have to agree that racism is less a problem than classism in this country. i make more money than 85% of the people i deal with on a daily basis but am looked at like garbage by these douchebags because i happen to be in a truck. after nine years driving i can honestly say that, even though racial slurs spew from my mouth at a dizzying rate, the words have nothing to do with ethnicity but with the individual that's causing my momentary problem.

i thought it was interesting what B54 said about being more comfortable with your own. i know in my case the only off-the-boat norwegian i ever met was an elitist prick. i feel at home, however, whenever i enter my homeland of minnesota. even though the locals are asses they're my asses for some reason. whatever. i'm just rambling.
 

Glenn Dandy

THE ONLY WHITE PRESIDENT LEFT.
Mar 21, 2005
19,758
35
298
Wackbag Whitehouse.
#15
Most people I've met that consider racists scum are usually elitist assholes. They're so proud of themselves for being open-minded when it comes to race but they also think they're better than anyone with less money, less education, or a more "menial" job. Especially blue collar whites. In a word; liberals.

Take my co-workers for example. Oh they hate racism and mean-spirited conservatives but they will never deign to speak to the service/contract workers in our building. They'll only speak to them if they need something, otherwise it's beneath them. They even ignore the black contractors they proclaim to love so much. It never fails, if there's a group of us walking down a hallway I'm the only one that says hello. Even when we go out for lunch they treat the wait staff like they're ghosts. I've seen this behavior at every company I've worked for the last 12 years. They were so sympathetic to those poor Rutgers girls being attacked by that white racist Imus but if any of those girls ever took a job working in our cafeteria or temping as an admin they'd be flatly ignored and looked at as an irritant if they initiated a conversation. I'm surprised I wasn't reprimanded when the Duke lacrosse case was in full swing. I actually had the nerve to defend the players. I was somewhat ostracized for awhile after that. Doesn't matter that I was right in the end. I'm the only one with hatred in my heart you see.:rolleyes:
Excellent post.... and very true.

the upper class loves the negroe... cause they dont have to be around them... their children dont go to school with them.. etc... so easy to be an elitist scum isnt it.
 

Jolie

Filthy Liberal
Aug 25, 2002
2,940
0
536
Virginia
#16
all people are not created equal.

I think all people are created with equal potential, just not equal opportunity. Its going to be far easier for a kid born into a rich family to stay rich than it will be for a kid born in a very poor family to become rich. They both have the potential for greatness, based on what they do with their lives, but the opportunities are definitely skewed towards the elite.
 

WhiskeyWhispers

I Want To Kill You All
Mar 11, 2007
3,544
3
0
Jersey
#17
Yes because it's so easy to do that. Especially from the opposing viewpoint. Now I'd love to see someone have the balls to tell the jews that.

I'm one of those kind of people that says live and let live. if you aren't bothering me I'm not going to bother you. And seeing how some people do, of that background do milk it with the history I can understand, but you're just as wrong by saying "well get over it" That's not your call to make.
Well I'm Irish and as far as white people go, we have been the most oppressed. I could go on about the Potato Famine and all the bullshit the English have pulled on the Irish,not to mention those "No Blacks No Dogs No Irish" signs, but here's the thing: I'm not a fucking baby and none of it actually happened to me. I'm guessing all the blacks who actually went through slavery are long dead.

It's not a race thing to say don't live in the past, any shrink will tell someone who had a bad childhood that if you don't let go of the past, it will consume you forever.

Get over it and move on, or forever use it as an excuse to fail.
 
#18
It's not a race thing to say don't live in the past, any shrink will tell someone who had a bad childhood that if you don't let go of the past, it will consume you forever.

Get over it and move on, or forever use it as an excuse to fail.
Honestly. I'm playing Devil's Advocate here. I'm not saying live in the past. i'm saying it's like denying it ever happened. Then saying essentially "fuck you, it happened, so what?" It's the flippant attitude that I don't get behind.

There's telling someone to move on, then there's another pompous tossing the shit in someone's face attitude. Two very different things.
 

WhiskeyWhispers

I Want To Kill You All
Mar 11, 2007
3,544
3
0
Jersey
#19
Honestly. I'm playing Devil's Advocate here. I'm not saying live in the past. i'm saying it's like denying it ever happened. Then saying essentially "fuck you, it happened, so what?" It's the flippant attitude that I don't get behind.

There's telling someone to move on, then there's another pompous tossing the shit in someone's face attitude. Two very different things.
I don't mean it like that. You mentioned the Jews earlier. Sure I'm sick of a new holocaust movie every month, but whatever, never forget and all that. That's fine.

But as a people they have prospered and excelled despite all they have suffered. Black people could learn a lot from them. Of course they shouldn't act like it never happened, but at some point you have to get beyond your anger and move forward. I don't think it's unreasonable to suggest that.
 
#20
Black people could learn a lot from them. Of course they shouldn't act like it never happened, but at some point you have to get beyond your anger and move forward. I don't think it's unreasonable to suggest that.
And for those that do. Who overwhelmingly outnumber those that don't it still wouldn't be good enough.

I mean seriously. It ultimately does not matter what people do. The general opinion people have many times come from preconceived notions. From Bill Cosby to Oprah as far as just the black aspect of it they'd still be looked at the same way.

I could put in front of a person that hated black people the most wealthy and accomplished black person, and they'd still be labeled the same way. So I really have a hard time believing a person that hated black people would ever give them the benefit of the doubt.

There is no amount of achievement, no amount of excellence, or proper manners, attitude, behavior in this particular example, black people could do that would garner the respect from someone who hated black people. It's not possible.
 
Jan 6, 2006
9,655
8
368
#21
I think all people are created with equal potential, just not equal opportunity. Its going to be far easier for a kid born into a rich family to stay rich than it will be for a kid born in a very poor family to become rich. They both have the potential for greatness, based on what they do with their lives, but the opportunities are definitely skewed towards the elite.
If they had the potential, they would succeed. It has nothing to do with opportunity as being a minority is an opportunity in the modern World.
 

HateMyName

Functioning Psychotic
Oct 15, 2004
2,278
70
498
DC suburbs
#22
And why do people bring up Jews? Jew is not a race.
You're not thinking like a skinhead. To Americans, Judiasm is a religion. In Germany 60 years ago, it was genetic. Jews who had converted to Christianity were still put the cattle cars because it was in the blood, not a belief.
I think most Klansman, Aryans, etc will tell you Jews are a specific (evil) race. A Jew can pass for white much easier than other races, but it's still just passing. The palest Jew isn't Aryan, and therefore not white.

In the early British colonies that became in the US, white indentured servants lived with the black slaves. People were divided by class, not race. The founders of this country didn't want poor farmers rebelling all the time, so they encouraged dividing along racial lines. Instead of the poor being the lowest group in society, it was the slaves. Poor white trash got to be very proud about the white part.
 
May 24, 2005
528
0
166
Charlotte, NC
#23
If they had the potential, they would succeed. It has nothing to do with opportunity as being a minority is an opportunity in the modern World.
I'm sure there are a bunch of very smart kids that are stuck in a bad urban environment right now. How do they tap into that potential? That's where the problem is. When there isn't an environment where they can bring it out including parents that encourage it, how can they be expected to succeed?

Yeah, it happens but more often than not it doesn't.
 
#24
You're not thinking like a skinhead. To Americans, Judiasm is a religion. In Germany 60 years ago, it was genetic. Jews who had converted to Christianity were still put the cattle cars because it was in the blood, not a belief.
I think most Klansman, Aryans, etc will tell you Jews are a specific (evil) race. A Jew can pass for white much easier than other races, but it's still just passing. The palest Jew isn't Aryan, and therefore not white.

In the early British colonies that became in the US, white indentured servants lived with the black slaves. People were divided by class, not race. The founders of this country didn't want poor farmers rebelling all the time, so they encouraged dividing along racial lines. Instead of the poor being the lowest group in society, it was the slaves. Poor white trash got to be very proud about the white part.
Very excellent point. I hadn't looked at it that way.