Should The US Have Bombed Auschwitz in the 1940s?

Should the US have bombed Auschwitz in the 1940s

  • Yes, it would have stopped the killings

    Votes: 9 23.1%
  • Yes, because it would have killed more Jews

    Votes: 8 20.5%
  • No

    Votes: 7 17.9%
  • What the fuck?

    Votes: 15 38.5%

  • Total voters
    39

LiddyRules

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Jun 1, 2005
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#1
[media]http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080111/ap_on_re_mi_ea/bush_israel_holocaust[/media]

Bush: US should have bombed Auschwitz

JERUSALEM - President Bush had tears in his eyes during an hour-long tour of Israel's Holocaust memorial Friday and told Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice that the U.S. should have bombed Auschwitz to halt the killing, the memorial's chairman said.

Bush emerged from a tour of the Yad Vashem memorial calling it a "sobering reminder" that evil must be resisted, and praising victims for not losing their faith.

Wearing a yarmulke, Bush placed a red-white-and-blue wreath on a stone slab that covers ashes of Holocaust victims taken from six extermination camps. He also lit a torch memorializing the victims.

Bush was visibly moved as he toured the site, said Yad Vashem's chairman, Avner Shalev.

"Twice, I saw tears well up in his eyes," Shalev said.

At one point, Bush viewed aerial photos of the Auschwitz camp taken during the war by U.S. forces and called Rice over to discuss why the American government had decided against bombing the site, Shalev said.

"We were talking about the often-discussed 'Could the United States have done more by bombing the train tracks?'" Rice told reporters later aboard Air Force One. "And so we were just talking about the various explanations that had been given about why that might not have been done."

The Allies had detailed reports about Auschwitz during the war from Polish partisans and escaped prisoners. But they chose not to bomb the camp, the rail lines leading to it, or any of the other Nazi death camps, preferring instead to focus all resources on the broader military effort, a decision that became the subject of intense controversy years later.

Between 1.1 million and 1.5 million people were killed at the camp.

"We should have bombed it," Bush said, according to Shalev.

In the memorial's visitors' book, the president wrote simply, "God bless Israel, George Bush."

The memorial was closed to the public and under heavy guard Friday, with armed soldiers standing on top of some of the site's monuments and a police helicopter and surveillance blimp hovering in the air overhead.

"I was most impressed that people in the face of horror and evil would not forsake their God. In the face of unspeakable crimes against humanity, brave souls — young and old — stood strong for what they believe," Bush said.

"I wish as many people as possible would come to this place. It is a sobering reminder that evil exists, and a call that when evil exists we must resist it," he said.

It was Bush's second visit to the Holocaust memorial, a regular stop on the visits of foreign dignitaries. His first was in 1998, as governor of Texas. The last U.S. president to visit was Bill Clinton in 1994.

Bush, making the most extensive Mideast trip of his presidency, was accompanied on his tour by a small party that included Rice and Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert.

At the compound, overlooking a forest on Jerusalem's outskirts, Bush visited a memorial to the 1.5 million Jewish children killed in the Holocaust, featuring six candles reflected 1.5 million times in a hall of mirrors. At the site's Hall of Remembrance, he heard a cantor sing a Jewish prayer for the dead.

Shalev presented Bush with illustrations of the Bible drawn by the Jewish artist Carol Deutsch, who perished in the Holocaust.

Deutsch created the works while in hiding from the Nazis in Belgium. He was informed upon, and died in 1944 in the Buchenwald camp. After the war, his daughter Ingrid discovered that the Nazis had confiscated their furniture and valuables but had left behind a single item: a meticulously crafted wooden box adorned with a Star of David and a seven-branched menorah, containing a collection of 99 of the artist's illustrations of biblical scenes.

The originals are on display at Yad Vashem. The memorial recently decided to produce a special series of 500 replicas, the first of which was to be presented to Bush.

Debbie Deutsch-Berman, a Yad Vashem employee whose grandfather was Deutsch's brother, said she was proud that Bush would be given her relative's artwork.

"These are not just his paintings, they are his legacy, and the fact that they survived shows that as much as our enemies tried to destroy the ideas that these paintings embody, they failed," she said.

Later Friday, Bush was to wrap up his three-day visit to Israel and the Palestinian territories with a visit to Christian holy sites in Galilee before departing for Kuwait, the next stop on his Mideast tour.
 

Glenn Dandy

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Mar 21, 2005
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#2
you only resort to that sort of thing in an unwinable war.that is seriously risking life and liberty and only as a last resort Nagasaki was a mistake in my opinion.
 

Stormrider666

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Mar 19, 2005
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#3
FDR could have least bombed the railroad tracks that were leading into Auschwitz. But to bomb the actual camps, I say no.
 

MrAbovePar

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Mar 14, 2005
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#5
Yea, slowing down the nazis ability to get jews to the camps would probably have cut down on the genocide.
 
Jun 30, 2005
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#6
Don't you think the nazi's just would have killed the jews by some other means? I mean, I don't think the lack of a death camp would have stopped it...
 

Jimmy's Dignity

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#7
FDR could have least bombed the railroad tracks that were leading into Auschwitz. But to bomb the actual camps, I say no.
Yea, slowing down the nazis ability to get jews to the camps would probably have cut down on the genocide.
exactly...that's the gist of the article too. Not that we shoulda bombed the Jews in the camps, but that we should have bombed the tracks etc


although to be fair, the Brits, French, etc could have done it too
 

Stormrider666

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#8
exactly...that's the gist of the article too. Not that we shoulda bombed the Jews in the camps, but that we should have bombed the tracks etc


although to be fair, the Brits, French, etc could have done it too
Well in France's defense, they were too busy handing over their country to the Nazis, to any bombing.
 

Creasy Bear

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#9
you only resort to that sort of thing in an unwinable war.that is seriously risking life and liberty and only as a last resort Nagasaki was a mistake in my opinion.
Nagasaki was a mistake? Howdya figger? You mean, like... they should have dropped the bomb on Tokyo instead?

Remember... in Nagasaki they like bukkake. So... there you go.
 

Plunkies

Registered User
Jun 28, 2006
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#10
Wouldn't bombing it actually....you know...help kill the jews? I'm not sure if lack of a camp would cause them to stop anything. It'd be like bombing my local supermarket and expecting me to stop finding food.
 

Stormrider666

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#11
Nagasaki was a mistake? Howdya figger? You mean, like... they should have dropped the bomb on Tokyo instead?

Remember... in Nagasaki they like bukkake. So... there you go.
Maybe what he is trying to say, was after the first one was dropped on Hiroshima, was it really necessary to drop the second one on Nagasaki.
 

Creasy Bear

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#12
Maybe what he is trying to say, was after the first one was dropped on Hiroshima, was it really necessary to drop the second one on Nagasaki.
I remember reading that they decided that yes... a second bomb was necessary. To prove to the fanatical Japs that the first one wasn't just a lucky shot, and that fuckin' A right.. we got more where that came from. Historical records have shown that Japanese high command was absolutely NOT planning to surrender after the first bomb was dropped on Hiroshima.

I remember a quote along these lines...

"The first bomb was a message to The Japanese Emperor. The second bomb was a message to the Japanese people."
 
Jun 2, 2005
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#13
I actually think the decision not to bomb the tracks saved more Jews than anything.

The Germans were so wrapped up in the idea of everything having a process that Jews were taken to a camp where they were kept alive for periods of time that wouldn't have happened if the soldiers just shot them on sight.

If you bomb the tracks, they'd probably just change their S.O.P. to 'Shoot when you see the size of their nose!'
 

Stormrider666

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#14
I remember reading that they decided that yes... a second bomb was necessary. To prove to the fanatical Japs that the first one wasn't just a lucky shot, and that fuckin' A right.. we got more where that came from. Historical records have shown that Japanese high command was absolutely NOT planning to surrender after the first bomb was dropped on Hiroshima.

I remember a quote along these lines...

"The first bomb was a message to The Japanese Emperor. The second bomb was a message to the Japanese people."
Yeah after I posted, I went back and refreshed my WW2 knowldge, and you're correct sir. Silly Japanese leaders, what did they think the first bomb was, just a huge fireworks show.
 

Hudson

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#15
I had thought that the true nature of the camps was not known until american soldiers got there .
 
Jun 2, 2005
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Dallas
#17
I had thought that the true nature of the camps was not known until american soldiers got there .
People forget perspective when they look back on events, I find it's not even worth arguing that point anymore because it fries conspiracy theorists' brains and they just revert to name calling.
 

Hudson

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#18
People forget perspective when they look back on events, I find it's not even worth arguing that point anymore because it fries conspiracy theorists' brains and they just revert to name calling.
I just recall that from all of the History courses I took at College..the one thing that they do not mention is that there was also Catholic and Gypsie Camps that killed almost as many as tha jews..all of the people there were culled and the camps burned before allied soldiers got there.
 
Jun 2, 2005
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Dallas
#19
I just recall that from all of the History courses I took at College..the one thing that they do not mention is that there was also Catholic and Gypsie Camps that killed almost as many as tha jews..all of the people there were culled and the camps burned before allied soldiers got there.
So you're saying that maybe the Nazi party was in the process of eliminating all "fundamentalist" types of religion and the Jewish side of it is all that got any attention?

I'm genuinely interested, this isn't baiting or argument starting in any way.
 

Hudson

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#20
So you're saying that maybe the Nazi party was in the process of eliminating all "fundamentalist" types of religion and the Jewish side of it is all that got any attention?

I'm genuinely interested, this isn't baiting or argument starting in any way.
It is Funny, growing up my coach had always said that the Nazis Killed just as many Catholics and Gypsies in camps..our family always thought it a quirk ..until my father a few years ago brought it up..he is a lawyer by trade..but does alot of heavy duty historical research on WWII and he said she was right that there were concentration camps that held Catholics.
 
Jun 2, 2005
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#21
Wow, that sheds a whole new light on the motives of Hitler... It never made any sense to me that a man could single handedly convince an entire country to follow one unilateral hatred of one people in particular, He literally was telling them to exterminate anyone who didn't think like them, and the Jews got the most press.

Fucking Jews controlling the media even way back when! :action-sm
 

Kris_LTRMa

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#22
Dr. Richard C. Lukas wrote 6 books about the Holocause, one of which was The Forgotten Holocaust, which according to his website is considered a classic in the literature on World War II. His Polish parents survived the Holocaust.

He says that of the 11 million people killed during the Holocaust, six million were Polish citizens. Three million were Polish Jews and another three million were Polish Christians and Catholics. Most of the remaining mortal victims were from other countries including Hungary, Czechoslovakia, Ukraine, Russia, Holland, France and even Germany.

He also says that Poland was actually Hitler's first target
On August 22, 1939, a few days before the official start of World War II, Hitler authorized his commanders, with these infamous words, to kill "without pity or mercy, all men, women, and children of Polish descent or language. Only in this way can we obtain the living space [lebensraum] we need".
The links above are to his site, but if for some reason they don't work, it's holocaustforgotten.com
 

Hudson

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Wow, that sheds a whole new light on the motives of Hitler... It never made any sense to me that a man could single handedly convince an entire country to follow one unilateral hatred of one people in particular, He literally was telling them to exterminate anyone who didn't think like them, and the Jews got the most press.

Fucking Jews controlling the media even way back when! :action-sm
an article on Poland...note it states that only 1/3 of the prisoners in Auswich were Jews (same thing on Dauchau)
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1252/is_7_132/ai_n15660325
http://www.holocaustforgotten.com/lukas.htm


The Sinti and Romani (Gypsy Concentration Camps)http://www.holocaust-trc.org/sinti.htm

CATHOLICS AND THE HOLOCAUST
(People have asked about the number of Catholics who died because of the
Nazis. The site on the Nuremberg Trials came up with the number of 42,000,000
for Christian victims of the Nazis. Since most of those were Roman Catholics,
one can gather that the number was at least quite overwhelming.)
http://www.holycross.edu/departments/history/vlapomar/hiatt/catholic.htm
 

Kris_LTRMa

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#24
On a side note, our former chief court reporter, a guy named Arnold Cohen, was the court reporter at the Nuremburg trials. He retired in 2005 but still works part time - been doing court reporting for close to 60 years & once held the record as fastest court reporting.

Okay, enough useless trivia.. look at the website I discussed - it's fascinating
http://www.holocaustforgotten.com/index.htm