Discussion in 'Current Events' started by Party Rooster, Apr 29, 2012.
Shake it up...:icon_cool
He's a much better candidate then Obama! He would never turn this country into a communo-socialistic utopia!
Choice A: Boring, but experienced liberal Republican. Decent person by all accounts.
Choice B: Communist agitator con artist that attended a racist church for 20 years, bought real estate from convicted felons and started his career in the home of a domestic terrorist.
It really is sad when one sides argument deteriorates to "hes just as bad as Obama".
its even funnier when you try and poll the other side as to what exactly Obama has done thats sooooo bad.. and the answer is "Socialism!!! Death Panels!!! Debt Crisis!!!"
again, I dont agree with some of Obama's moves (and have detailed those disagreements) but to listen to most of partisan wonks here Obama has destroyed the country and is still actively trying to bring it down. :trollol: -- thats them...
Actually the argument is that he's worse than Obama, but thanks for playing. At least Obama's opinion has been consistent for the last few years.
Or better yet...
In addition to the, "I reeeeeally fucking love Obama and want him to succeed, but since its damn near impossible to defend the job he's done over the past few years, I'm just going to tell people I really don't like him all that much and didn't vote for him...meanwhile, I'll bash the people that complain about him."
Let's complain how Obama has raised taxes on everyone and taken away all of our civil rights since he took office! What do you mean that's not true, Obama-lover!!!!!
I rest my case. :icon_cool
Romney's father was born in Mexico... that obviously means Mitt was as well. He is not eligible to be president.
The only reason he hasn't raised taxes is because Congress is stopping him right now. And one thing you can't dispute is how much our deficit has increased under his single term. So increasing the deficit while showing no real motivation to cut expenses, and where do you think he's going to try and fund his spending?
I'm no fan of Romney, but Obama has done such a bad job I'm willing to give another person a shot. Hell, I'd gladly vote for Clinton is she was running against him.
sigh.. yes, the deficit increased, largely due to the fall out from the financial crisis (not of Obama's or the previous admins making). Both parties agreed that a large deficit spending stimulus package was needed and we were going to get one no matter who was elected... so its REALLY short sighted to harp on this aspect.
There you go again. Watch the "Obama-lover" point out what a shitty talking point this is. How do you know his motivations? Has he made any indication that he wants to raise your taxes? He's said that he wants to raise them for millionaires, I'm confident no one wasting their time on this board falls into that category. Enough with the speculation and hyperbole and focus on hard facts for a change.
Would you vote for Romney if everyone went around saying "He wants to raise taxes and the deficit and the only thing that will stop him will be Congress". It's just as applicable as your statement.
The way the deficit was increased was largely irresponsible. He had to promise to create a "Super Committee" that would be tasked with cutting spending... what exactly have they been up to since November or whenever they were created? He has done almost nothing to stop wasteful spending in the government, and that should be the first thing done before creating more debt or demanding more taxes.
I'm against raise any taxes, either ones that affect me personally or those specific to millionaires... and he has stated very clearly he wants to increase taxation on them.
And if I thought Romney would raise taxation/the deficit more than Obama, I absolutely would not vote for him. Fiscal policy is the most important issue right now in my opinion, and thus the issue that most affects my support.
Raising taxes responsibly *is* fiscally responsible.
The reason why the country is in such deep shit is because spending is way above the income line. That's basic economics.
As you said, stop wasteful spending, but at the same time, the U-S and A needs a form of income.
A flat tax, closing of taxation loopholes and shelters, and responsible spending is the only way this will get fixed.
Ain't webzones great? We can wax hyperbolic all we want, but it still doesn't get shit done.
Not Necessarily. They aren't raising taxes because they already did it.
As of right now, the AMT exemption amounts are considerably lower for everyone. Which means that if nothing changes more people will be subject AMT than in years past.
nah, not really... a stimulus spending package was needed, again both sides of the aisle agreed on this.
it ended in partisan bickering and triggered automatic cuts that will take place in 2013. Look to republicans to block this.
true enough, but then again, if it were allllll so easy to just "cut the waste"... wouldnt someone have already done it?
no not really. The economic crisis wasnt going to wait around for years until studies of government spending (the studies themselves costing $) to be submitted and the partisan bickering that would surely follow. Something had to be done at the time and it was. Its effectiveness or whether or not you agree with the size and scope is another issue. As for demanding more taxes... our taxes are at a near historic low, while our spending is high. Just flexing one isnt going to fix the problem, its going to take both moving.
yep. Obama has said he wants to raise the capital gains rate and the top tax bracket rate. See above about our taxes being very low right now. Not really allll that bad of a plan. Its not going to end the deficit, but its going to bring in more revenue. Something we need, even if there are drastic spending cuts.
I wouldn't be absolutely against raising taxes, but for me to even consider supporting it, they would have to first make massive cuts to spending. All this "give us more money, and we'll make cuts later" is bullshit. They're already talking about having to raise the debt limit again this year, and no real cuts have been made.
Here's a concept I would support. For ever additional dollar they take in through new taxation, they have to cut $5 from the budget.
The stimulus spending isn't the only thing contributing to the massive debt. BTW, how did that work out? our economy is still in the shitter.
Not enough "automatic cuts" to stop them trying to raise the debt ceiling again this year. We seriously need 20% of the federal budget cut, to start.
No, because they benefit from that waste. The money money that flows through the federal government, the more control they have. I've always been a fan of having private auditing firms come in and look over every single agency budget. You give them something like 10% of whatever they can cut while maintaining the same level of service.
Unfortunately, the federal system is set up to waste money. Agencies have their funding cut if they don't utilize their entire budgets, so of course every year they have to find some way to waste money.
This is actually false. We have more types of taxes now that ever, and although income taxes are lower than they have been in the past, companies are often still paying more. For one thing, when income taxes were at their highest, there were many more loopholes. One example is you use to be able to claim any loss against any income... so if you own a store that has $1 million income, yet lost $50,000 in the stock market, you could claim those losses against the store income.
(At least I'm pretty sure of this... Peter Schiff was explaining it one day).
Additional taxation only leads to less capital available in the market... less investing means less jobs, less jobs means more people depending on the government, and less employees paying taxes. BTW, capital gains tax is already high enough, seeing as though it's the second income tax on the same dollar.
yep, and its coming back. No one claimed that a financial problem that took a decade or more to get into would be solved in a year or two. Personally i think the stimulus could have been more effective if it were of a different size and scope.... but to say that it did nothing it just being disingenuous.
the two arent really related...
actually if you want to stop increasing the debt, you need to do A LOT more than that. We could stop spending a single penny on Medicare and SS, still collect the taxes for these programs (in effect a MASSIVE tax increase) and STILL run a deficit.
Well, I beg to differ... if some president could have been THE ONE to cut out $X in gov waste... it would have been done. Not saying there ISNT waste or that it couldnt be cut... but its a popular cry "all we need to do is cut the waste and we'll be fine"... well not exactly... see the above for the size of the problem.
Well I'll have to dig up a link on this.. in the modern era actually our tax burden is pretty low right now comparatively.
Well, we have to bust that deficit somehow right? And lowering taxes lowers tax revenue (despite the mistaken claim to the contrary). Of course there is a tipping point to this, not saying that one can raise taxes sky high and it wont affect the economy... but they can certainly be higher than they are right now with no harm done. And specifically, raising the top tax bracket from what is it now? 33% to 37% isnt going to stop the economic engine of the US, and conversely it will not solve the deficit problem.
President Elect Romney! Start getting used to it!!